All Discussion PAGE 417

Heaven part 6 concluding thoughts for now

Given the paucity of descriptions of what we shall do other than eternally praise; worship and serve Christ we are left to our imaginations in one sense. We also can have the general anticipation of doing all the things (except marriage and procreation) that we do in our earthly bodies now; but without sin and fulfilling an exponentially greater purpose. Many have surmised how we will continually gain in our knowledge; forever work on construction projects (perhaps in all parts of a new universe) and other such things.

Backing up a bit; until that time it seems to me a spurious concept that in heaven time doesn't currently exist. If heaven is a world or planet perhaps things are measured differently (as to the Lord a day is as a thousand years); but nonetheless with all the visions from heaven in the scriptures in Revelation there are specific time frames that mirror the book of Daniel. Truly God is beyond time; and perhaps in new bodies and without sin WE will conceive things differently. God however had His consecrated feasts at specific time intervals; primarily to reflect Christ in the future Passover as sacrifice; in Pentecost for the beginning of the church; etc. Angels such as the one in the story of Daniel 10:13 understood literal days; and the 360 day year was used in the time measurements to show the events to come such as the day Christ was to be crucified 483 years after the decree to build the Temple ( Daniel 9:25).

The dimensions of heaven are clear; but there is no proof it has to be a cube. It could be equidistant on its sides in any shape; really; perhaps shaped as the ancient Temple; or more rectangular with the 12 gates on each side. Just landing that City on earth would destroy things with the gravity of the moon and change the whole appearance of the earth.

As with any other scripture; literal viewpoints should supercede figurative ones unless evidence is clear that it is symbolic.

Heaven Part 5

There are details about the heavenly city appearing on earth such as in Psalm 48. This shows the fear of the kings of the earth; and would represent a Millennium event. In earlier posts I have discussed how we will rule much like David under Christ who will be the supreme authority during the 1000 year reign. There are other verses about the earth and its peoples which could encompass promises of either the Millennium or eternal Kingdom.

I have said before that the eternal nature of the earth seems to be proven by several verses and I had thought that was true about the sun and moon but Psalm 72 seems to indicate otherwise. It would seem to show the end of it at the end of the Millennium; no doubt part of the catastrophic destruction at the time. Ecclesiastes 1:4 and several other verses seem to indicate that the earth in some form remains forever. As to exactly how the new universe will be; or if anything exists other than heaven and a new earth is rather mysterious; however. It is very frightening to think of the lake of fire as being what happens when the elements (or atoms) are dissolved in 2 Peter 3:10; perhaps the lost are in an eternal body that is reduced to some strange broken down elemental state. Revelation 22:15 seems to indicate they are just outside the gate. Somehow it would seem that they are infinitely far away from the saints at that time; however as there will be no more crying on our part as Revelation 21:4 shows.

These changes no doubt will cause the sea to vaporize; hence no more sea ( Rev. 21:1). All in the sea will die in the Tribulation anyway (except that brought to life in the Dead Sea); see Revelation 16:3; and Ezekiel 47:10 with surrounding verses on that context. Again in heaven we shall behold Him and see His marks as Thomas did; the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 had eternal ramifications. We ever shall be reminded of what He did for us.

Heaven part 4

It is hard to imagine the earth without Satan and his oppressive regime as a sort of underground usurper; particularly without man learning the art of war anymore ( Isaiah 2:4). Satan; of course will try to destroy the encampment of God on earth (which will be populated by us no doubt) and will come to a quick end being thrown in the lake of fire with his earlier cohorts he used for his own purposes over 1000 years before.

When we understand how there will be those saints of all "dispensations" in heaven from the O.T. and N.T. as well as those martyrs who will be resurrected from the Tribulation later to rule as well ( Rev. 7:9). There are disputes on the timing of what constitutes the firstfruits (I tend to think it is several phases); but the point is all these groups will be represented in heaven. And I have stated in earlier posts that the implication of the Great White Throne Judgment is that some will be in the Book of Life; certainly the PHYSICAL survivors allowed into the Millennium who remained faithful; as well as those descendants wo don't rebel and are true believers will have to be accounted for and hence will be translated if they live out the whole 1000 years without dying (at least it would appear so unless instantly killed then resurrected when the elements are melted). 2 Peter 3:10.

Jesus assured His disciples that He is God of the living ( Matt. 22:32-34) which again eliminates soul sleep and shows where the souls of the departed are (as Revelation also does in Rev. 6:9; later resurrected in Rev. 20:4). The final proof here of consciousness after the grave is the Transfiguration; as well as the example of Lazarus and the rich man (the only parable mentioning a given name hence to be taken literally).

It is harder to conceive in some ways the physical component of our state as resurrected saints than it is of the spiritual; if we think about it for a minute. We live in faith now of who we haven't seen but we shall see him.

When were you saved? and what were you saved from?

You were saved from DEATH.

The wages of sin is death.

You died on the cross; with Christ, you were raise a NEW CREATION, with Christ.

You were saved at the resurrection.

You were GIFTED with the LIFE of CHRIST, being raise together.

No one can lose their salvation, eternal life (salvation), being raised with Christ, is a gift of God; Chris is THE RESURRECTION, given to man, 2000 years ago, it was finished at the cross, nothing can to be added, nor anything taken away, God's GRACE was poured out on his creation, Christ took upon himself the full WRATH of God, we had part in that wrath by dying on the cross with Christ, yet we didn't have to physically endue that suffering.

The kingdom of God is not a place (heaven); but a condition, being ONE (in the presence) with the Father and Son.

God is in a physical PLACE; HE is the LIFE of ALL MEN, ye are the BODY of Christ.

Christ's SECOND coming was in the BODY of all men, raise together; Christ is still on this earth in THE FLESH, YOU are the Body of Christ.

This mortal shall PUT ON IMMORTALITY .....

1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY .....

Ye are the BODY of Christ .....

Proverbs 16:6 BY MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is purged ....

John 14:6 I AM the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE ....

There is ONLY ONE LIFE; Christ, ye are the BODY of Christ.

God bless you.

Richard,

This is not an incidental or academic question.

We never should interpret scripture by our experience. But we can and should look at our experiences and those things happening around us based on scripture.

God is very clear about adding or taking away from the Bible in Rev. 22:18,19.

Some would argue that if what we believe we receive in a dream or a vision that does not "add" to what the Bible declares, that somehow can be from God. However, in writing the Bible God often repeats scriptural teaching and even repeats specific verses. And each time He did this God was ADDING to His Word, the Bible.

There is so much in the Bible that no one will fully understand everything in our lifetime. Why would we want to test God with and extra revelation of any kind?

The BIBLE ALONE AND IN ITS ENTIRETY is the ONLY Word of God.

Jesus said these things are hid from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes.... Mat. 11:25....Which is that born of the spirit the H.G. As we have born the image of the earthly we must also bear (birth) the image of the heavenly which is the H.G....Which is our new innerman that has to be born in us via the seed of the sower a spiritual Seed/being.....10 times in the New Testament its tells us about birthing a new innerman....Which is that New Creature the H.G.....But when something is Hid by God ...Nobody can find it....6 k yrs have gone by and the world don't understand this New Covenant of multiplication of Christ seed....Gen.22:17....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven.....Thats y the sower has to go forth and sow his precious seed in humanity.....Resulting in the book being opened and us being bornagain of his incorruptible seed....The living word not the written word....Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains....We are gonna birth a baby Christ which is the H.G. That Child of Promise....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME....Why do we refer to the H.G. AS THE PROMISE?....Simply b/c the H.G. is the multiplication of Christ in us.....Remember the multiplication of Christ seed was that great Promise....God was so passionate about this multiplication of Christ that he swore by his very self....Thats when the woman in Rev 12:5 is giving birth to the Children of Promise....And thats when satan the dragon wants kill the woman and her Children.....Simply b/c its the manchild the H.G. the spirit of truth that Judges the prince of this world....Its the womans Child the H.G. that reproves this world of sin and righteousness and Judgement .....But the Child the spirit of truth cannot speak of himself simply b/c he has just been born in us....He is just a spritual infant....That New born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word is the H.G....The multiplication of Christ Jesus in us.....OK LEMME GO

Heaven part 3

Rewards in heaven

Genesis 15:1 is the only scripture I have found that shows that God Himself is our reward. Certainly it is enough; and will be enough for those saved even without receiving rewards to know that He fulfilled what was needed on their behalf despite only getting to heaven as though "through the fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Hebrews 11:6 states that we MUST believe that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. That is part of the nature of God; and should help us desire to see our brothers and sisters exalted and rejoice in the small ways God can use our service to help build them up in the faith. The admonition of Revelation 3:11 should also keep us pursuing the Lord until the end as we can lose our rewards to another if not careful.

I have probably discussed before several pasages on the type of rewards due to particular service which we do based (hopefully) on our gifts and calling. The reader can look up passages related to faithful preaching of the Word (and the more stringent judgments attached to that responsibility); those who patiently await His coming as Malachi 3 discusses with the book of remembrance and other verses talking about patient endurance until the end; and of course rewards for the martyrs for Christ.

These would no doubt represent levels of authority in some respect in heaven; and I have also brought up the verses in regard to ruling few or many cities; also we could look at 1 Cor. 5:41 for that. We should also note the reward of the evangelist those who lead many to righteousness shining as the stars in Daniel 12:3. That could also refer to end time events as with that of the great multitude martyred seen in heaven in association with the 144,000 taken from the Great Tribulation ( Rev. 7:9).

To be continued.

Heaven Part 2

In my last post; I talked about Peter. He was revealed who Christ was which could only have come from the Father ( Matt. 16:17).

The HOLINESS of God is talked about frequently; perhaps easiest remembered in Revelation 4:8-11 (also found in Isaiah 6:3).

When the Bible describes judgment; and hell viewed on earth such as in Isaiah 66 there is no appreciation of the wicked for His Holiness or any other attributes. Our life as believers is hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and the verse also talks about how we must be "crucified with Christ". Those who believe have truly "passed from death to life" ( John 5:24 with further insights in 1 John as well). So that is the difference; we have either the eternal state of our spiritual condition to be in our fallen sin which is totally blind to His glory and only focused on self; or we are new creations which are now able to glorify God in heaven (and we start now by being seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Therefore we begin now; to rule and reign with Him in a sense-it is a done deal as Romans 8:30; and Ephesians 1:13 states.

Isaiah 53:11 states that He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied; quoting a verse from an entire CHAPTER on Christ which is the famous chapter Jews like to ignore because of clear Messianic descriptions matching that of Christ. His satisfaction therefore will be in ruling and reigning WITH us; with the sons of glory (sort of combining Hebrews 2:10 with the concept of Romans 8:17.) He did it to please the Father first and foremost; but also of course has been given all authority on heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18). It is strange to conceive ourselves in a similar way; but nonetheless being part of the firstfruits we also suffer for a time then are glorified and rewarded ( 1 Peter 5:10).

Obviously; as we look to the concept of varying amounts of rewards for either the wicked (punishment) we have the same idea in regard to the saved. ( 1 Cor. 3:15). more in part3

Matthew chapter 10 verse 28 : fear him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell . The Greek word is apollumi and it literally means to destroy fully and completely . It does not say 'send ' both soul and body .

Heaven Part One

Recently a book on the subject (apparently there were several) was studied in small group; in this case one by Randy Alcorn. There were some questions on one of his video shorts and not total agreement; nonetheless other segments and much written in the book seem scripturally solid.

What we see in scripture shows how saints of God will; at least after the Tribulation and what I believe eschatologically to be the Millennium (and certainly for eternity afterwards) be ruling and reigning on earth. The difference will be in the New Jerusalem being above earth rather than on earth as happens in Revelation 21. I will note that it is the New Jerusalem; not the entire planet or place where heaven is that comes to earth. It would seem that would remain somewhere else. Ezekiel 1:22 seem to suggest an expanse of ice; M.J. Agee seems to think the location is identifiable. For the sake of avoiding unnecessary controversy I will keep the basic premise that it is somewhere beyond our physical universe.

The key; again is scripture; Jesus stated that "you know where I am going." ( John 14:4-6). The issue where was that they had seen God in Christ who was a member of the Trinity and always did the Father's will. How to get there of course is through the narrow gate which all but the son of Perdition could enter of the 12 Disciples ( Matthew 7:13-14). This is perhaps the biggest point that needs to be hammered home. Other than believing in a literal heaven as being a priority we also need to realize that only by His righteousness can we pass from death to life and most will take the wide road to destruction. That necessitates elimination of any universalist sentiments. I have stated before the concept of 2 Corinthians 7:10 where godly sorrow brings repentance rather than the type Judas Iscariot had as to sadness on the consequences of his actions. Peter showed true repentance because he knew He had betrayed the Son of God who he truly loved.

Heaven Intro conclusion.

In conclusion to my introduction on matters such as heaven and hell; I will say that I am confined here to whatever the moderators deem necessary parameters. I could eliminate specific examples or references from my personal life or others I have researched if it is needed to better focus on the Word itself. As I just stated in my last introduction posting; there is nothing against scripture to be tolerated; and I will also say not to ADD to it. These are not as the audience is probably aware an attempt to add to "thus saith the Lord" or the 66 books of the Bible. If I ever present something that is clearly not scriptural then I would be the first one to want to be rebuked. On such matters as the Holy Spirit; for example I have tried to emphasize the focus of a John 16:8 mentality. I also promise to try my hardest to find error and expose it whenever it comes to anybody's testimony from their personal lives; or even my own viewpoints. As to my posting on hell; I hope the verses Mr. Weise quoted come even close to anyone else as to scriptural knowledge; as with any other subject such as heaven. I will dogmatically say that there is no room for the soul sleep theory and that is found with the difference in the Hebrew word for the grave (qeber) vs for the abode of the dead (sheol). I believe we can perceive through discernment into the spiritual realm; again Mr. Weise did not have an NDE or die and he stated as such. There are those who claim that they were clinically dead for some time; certainly a few of these cases can be proven true. It would seem some insight into that dimension would be seen at that point; sans a final destiny and judgment being that they are able to come back.

Anyway as to heaven; of course many of the same issues come up which are errors such as the five things mentioned in my last hell posting. There is less on the subject in scripture it would appear than on hell; but I will glean what I can

Heaven: The true story

Introduction: I am answering in general the concept brought up with the comments on my last posting on hell. I will just say that experientially; we are living out in the Spirit the truths in scripture. In that sense we all shall be "taught by God" ( John 6:45).

In the N.T. there were events such as the famine predicted by Agabus; and words of knowledge such as the man who grabbed Paul and said in such a manner he would be taken away if he went to Jerusalem. In these two cases certain actions would determine the outcome; namely preparation of the Saints in the first example; and choosing to go to death if needed by Paul. We all must have some personal relationship with the Lord not just know about Him; or even just believe in all the proper doctrines. I will be the first to say here that ANY experience which clearly contradicts scripture cannot be taken as valid.

However; there are many cases where I have seen the Lord work in dreams and visions; such as my former Pastor who told me from missionaries he knew personally on the field that in one case EVERY single person who was being reached in an Islamic nation for Christ had had some sort of dream or vision of Christ. Such is also the case on literature that I have read from the 1950's as to more "charismatic" or signs and wonder gifts. In the Tribulation there clearly will be the Joel 2 events again with dreams and visions; not to mention all the miracles by the two prophets as well as warnings of judgment to come.

I have personally seen someone delivered of a demon who was given a Word of knowledge of the name of the entity affecting hi and was subsequently successfully delivered by this person who had that insight. I consider deliverance a necessary miraculous event today; and in fact had prayed that my church would have that sort of ministry at the time.

I won't force anyone here to hold to my viewpoint; but want to adhere to scripture as best as I can see it.

***Corrected***

Richard,

We should pay no attention whatsoever to any testimony regarding anything spiritual that includes some out of body experience or direct message from God such as a voice or a vision or a tongue. While that was possible prior to God completing the Bible as God spoke directly to some and actually appeared in some form to various individuals as He was "writing" the Bible, once the Bible was completed with the book of Revelation, God very specifically prohibits any of that from happening again. As we read in Rev 22:18,19.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God is not speaking directly to anyone today in a dream or a voice or a vision or a tongue or in some "out of body" experience. We can be absolutely certain of that. The only message directly from God today is in the BIBLE ALONE and in its ENTRITY as God the Holy Spirit would lead us into Truth. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".

Hammer63:

You said we have to read the bible correctly:

Jesus SAID he spoke to the multitude in PARABLES.

He literally placed a physical child in the midst of them them; BUT the TEACHING was not about a physical child, but the fact that HIS RESURRECTION was going to make YOU a new creation, a new birth, being raised with Christ.

And whosoever receiveth one such little child (the Holy Ghost) RECEIVETH ME (Christ in you).

Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... CHRIST IN YOU ..... the Holy Ghost IN YOU .... the Spirit of God IN YOU .... the LIFE in YOU ..... the TRUTH in YOU ..... you are the BODY OF CHRIST.....

The glory that thou hast given me, I have given them, that as we are ONE, that they may be ONE in us.

The is ONLY one CHILD; but HE dwells, and is the LIFE and TRUTH in all bodies.

You are the body of CHRIST.

Not many understand what the resurrection accomplished.

All men died with Christ on the cross, all men were made alive by being resurrected with Christ.

At each man's appointed time, Christ will CAUSE them to come to TRUTH.

I WILL put my Spirit in YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statues and keep my judgements, and do them.

For it is God that worketh IN YOU both to will and to do his good pleasure.

God bless you as his truth is revealed IN YOU.

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will. Colossians 1:9

And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. Luke 15:20-24

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1 Thessalonians 5:16

O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:1,2

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

For there is no restraint to the LORD to save by many or by few. 1 Samuel 14:6

Hiya Hammer63....There is gonna be more then one H.G.....When he breathe on them they all received the H.G.....He was propagating very God with his precious seed the living word....His breath was his words and his words are his seeds to Multiply himself in humanity.....Ya gotta keep in mind that Jesus is the bridegroom....Thats y he is saying to whom the word( his seed ) came it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken....As the gift of God is the H.G....That are gonna be as the stars of heaven in multitudes....Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man.....Mankind is gonna birth a Baby Christ which is the H.G.....Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit....Thats the H.G. that Children of Promise....Remember God almighty swore by his very self when he made that Promise of multiplication of Christ Seed.... thats y Jesus is saying to whom the word (The good seed came it made them Gods ) which is the H.G. the Children of Promise....I will pour out of my spirit (THE H.G.) on all flesh....Which is the gift of God that is gonna be as the stars of heaven....Bro. Hammer i am trying to help you....But this multiplication of Christ doctrine is hid from the wise and prudent and only revealed unto Babes and Sucklings....The H.G. are gonna be many, they are the Israel of God.....The babes and sucklings... behold me and the Children the lord has given ME.....That New Born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word is the gift of God the H.G.....The Children of PROMISE....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Even in the natural a birth always implies a Child...We are gonna have a baby...The H.G. OK GBU

Hell testimonies part 3

I would be sadly remiss if I didn't emphasize how we should fear the Lord who can send both body and soul to hell ( Matt. 10:28).

This; in my opinion should elicit a response in the souls of all true believers; as we should be ever greatful for what He did for us on the cross; taking the punishment of God the Father on Himself for our benefit.

What we can do now; however is be ambassadors for the truth; and allow God to make us vessels of reconciliation ( 2 Cor. 5:19).

We cannot save anyone; but are held responsible for the death of others if we don't sound the alarm (see Ezekiel 33). Notice there that they may or may not heed the warning.

One cannot separate the love of God for fear of the Lord; and one cannot appreciate the joys of heaven without realizing the horrors of hell they have been delivered from.

We also have to understand predestination in that regard; if we disagree on certain aspects it is clear that in the end a certain number are saved and sadly it is only "few" according to Christ Himself. ( Luke 13:23 among other verses).

Another thing which needs consideration is the reports of children being in hell. Matthew 18:10; as well as Matthew 21:16 tied to Psalm 8:2; and the testimony of David in 2 Samuel 12:23 should dispel this; there are other verses as well which I may elaborate on in a future posting. Those scenes where people seem baffled or confused as to what is happening to them isn't scriptural; and we also must ponder Hebrews 9:27; and understand that judgment comes first immediately after death (although before the Great White Throne one at the end of the Millennium). The punishment is justly given in different levels depending on the crime. I need to be careful here; but will say that punishment will be no more or less than deserved; more "tolerable" for some as in Matthew 11:22.

In conclusion; God's Word should make us tremble; the subject matter should never be looked at as entertaining.

MOre on hell testimonies

My last conversation got stuck on another thread. Here is a summary of what is often spurious evidences in hell testimonies.

1. Satan being in hell. Revelation 20 and 21 should make it clear (the latter case even with Post Millennialists) that Satan is not in hell now; clearly he will be tormented before anyone else and as well as anyone else. Certain entities currently under the earth are in their own realm in Tartarus. Therefore; although it is possible that certain creatures are under the earth presently; it is hard to differentiate at times (unless clinical death is proven) that something isn't a demonic attack of torment.

2. Lack of proper reverential fear of the Lord. There are a few testimonies like this in regard to heaven and hell testimonies; but too many that only have a mushy love for Christ; or just desperate clinging to Him. No genuine experience in God's presence can come without being on our faces; see Daniel; Isaiah and John for 3 scriptural examples of the same thing. See Deuteronomy as well when Moses "shook exceedingly" ( Heb. 12:21). See David's example when the destroying angel appeared in 1 Chron. 21:15. If an Archangel can bring such a reaction (see Daniel 10:5 and following); surely the Lord Himself even more so.

3. Lack of testimony regarding the sin nature and our need to be saved from that. There also tends to be a doctrine of "losing your salvation" if we have besetting sins; as well as teachings that we must go through much of the Tribulation. More seem to be heading towards that mindset probably because Christ didn't return when they thought He would.

4. Idea that true repentance would occur in hell but it would be too late. Or love for God and His Name. I stated in my last posting that in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man no one would be convinced if someone came back from the dead.

( Isaiah 38:18).

5. God is grieving for lost souls in hell. ( Isaiah 66:24).

Some clarity on hell testimonies

There seems to be; as with any other issue two extremes among the professing church today. Hell is taken as a figurative place; or not eternal in one extreme and the other end of the spectrum is a belief in every testimony of an afterlife experience on such matters that can be found without a critical examination of the message being delivered (is it scriptural?); the fruit of the life of such an individual (are they clearly out for self promotion and greedy gain); or is it something that should be considered taken seriously?

The first issue should; along with other core doctrines that have been assumed up until recently to be foundational for us to be a Christian not even have to be discussed; in my opinion. We can't naively believe that most churches in even what were solid doctrinally a generation ago have anything correct now; I am not even sure which pole was taken but apparently belief in Christ being God in the flesh; being the only way to salvation; and other issues have succumbed to today's popular agendas. I'd place a bet that most who don't believe in a literal hell somehow still hold out hope for a real; eternal heaven (as misguided as their view of what it is like and such may be).

On the other side; I will state if I can on this site the testimony of Bill Weise. He himself says that he isn't concerned about us believing him but the Word; and in the speaking engagement I saw him in he must have had two or three hundred scriptures memorized from the O.T. and N.T. on the subject. There may be others like this; but I am not aware of them.

A common thing is lack of reverential fear of the Lord in these testimonies; only clinging on to Him when rescued from what they claim was hell. We see assumptions that go against verses such as Luke 16:31 where we think that those even if they had a real NDE or out of body experience that it would convince someone to repent. 2 Tim. 2:25 says the Lord grants repentance

Women preaching (part 2).

As in my last posting; I would say we are remiss and probably pretty ignorant if we ignore gifted women and think we can't gain scriptural knowledge there. Any true woman of God will attribute their successes to the Lord and not attempt to usurp such roles. A woman of course through chaste behavior can win her husband over as well; so to speak to being amenable to receiving the Lord.

Such matters also don't relegate women to second class status in terms of spiritual rewards. We also don't ultimately see in the next life any such restrictions ( Gal. 3:28). The text being as it on a surface level makes it seem that men will rule as kings and priests but again it would seem women also can receive great reward as per the woman of great faith ( Matt. 15:28).

There are; of course despite the restrictions of not speaking in a service and wearing head coverings that women prophesy and pray in public worship ( 1 Cor. 11:5). Some argue if that is the context of the verse but it certainly implies speaking so the Word must be divided correctly. The Lord certainly used women in the O.T. to Propnesy; during the time of Judges no doubt men were scarce; but the women who did such things were not rebuked for doing it by the Lord. We can argue what gifts exist today; but we all need to exercize the authority in Ephesians 6; and often women are the most persistant prayers in churches today both numerically and time wise.

These principles in regard to Covenants such as sacraments in communion; marriages; and Baptisms scripturally use men as the ones to administer such practices. There was never an attempt in the O.T. times for a woman to attempt the role in the Temple; except of course for those in prayer such as Hannah and the woman who was the widow who lived until Christ the Redeemer came ( Luke 2:37 and Anna). Hannah's virtue put to shame the Priest at the time; and his sons later would be destroyed as Samuel's prophetic insight stated.

A woman is said not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12) and that verse also mentions that women shouldn't teach as well. Women are to teach their children however; mentioned just a few verses earlier in 1 Timothy 1:5. There are other verses in Titus and other scriptures where the wisdom of God are to be instructed as well.

It gets fuzzy when we get into such things as a small group. What is considered an informal conversation often morphs with "teaching" in some respect. Certainly there is benefit to women teaching other women ( Titus 2:4-6) which involves bringing up responsible young women and men as well in their domestic duties. Certainly we are all part of God's family so it could extend to other families as well.

The theoretical conundrum is when a woman wishes to Pastor if there is "no man available" for such a role. If it is truly the case and no men are in a congregation; I don't see anything wrong with a woman taking up that role as it were; but as soon as a believing male is present there should be some oversight and transferrance of authority ASAP in that regard.

Also; I have read female authors (one in particular on Bible Prophecy) who is in my opinion uneqalled in the scriptural detail about the end times. She goes to church with her husband and doesn't attempt to have lectures and such on tour; just a website. Such conferences that women have are often sold as a sort of motivational talk but often are more like women taking over preaching as s Pastor role. Most of the time there appears to be egregious error in such cases; as to when wives and husbands have a "co-ministry".

The authority of a Pastor also is an elder role; which carries with it a supervisory role protecting the flock; exercising authority for church discipline and other matters. That does NOT mean that women shouldn't report an erring sister or brother although when do you hear about that? Matthew 18:15-20 should proceed from there with men.

Good morning Tim86,

My advice to you would be to use a Bible, preferably the King James translation as it has proven through many years to be the most faithful English translation on a word for word basis. But use a copy that contains no study notes whatsoever. And keep any commentary or other writing that you wish to consult separate from the Bible itself.

The Bible is the Word of God; it is God speaking directly to you as you read it and study it using the principals that God has laid down in the Bible itself. The Bible is its own interpreter and its own dictionary. No commentary is the Word of God nor is it infallible because it is the understanding of men and not God, and therefore must be checked out using the Bible itself.

Having study notes or commentary along side of the Word of God itself in the SAME VOLUME, tends to give it an authority in our thinking, perhaps only subconsciously which can be dangerous, even though that may not be our conscious intent.

These are my thoughts. But we need, I believe, to keep the authority and Holiness of the Word of God on a completely different level than any Human writing of any kind. And I think this is particularly important in our day when the Bible has lost its absolute authority nearly anywhere we look.

Good morning Adrue1,

I'm not going to get into specifics, but what I can tell you is that each and every one of the Old Testament Ceremonial Laws, as well as Water Baptism and the Lord's Supper during the Church Age were types and figures teaching some aspect of the Gospel. There was no efficacy or spiritual substance in these; they were signs and shadows to be observed focusing on the very substantive Nature of God's Judgment and Salvation plan.

I think it was a little human child that Jesus sat in the midst of them. (not the Holy Spirit). We can become off in our thinking if we don't read the Bible accurately. I don't think Jesus was referring to humbling himself like the Holy Spirit. And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. He also goes on the say that whosoever offends one of these little ones. (that is plural meaning more than one). There is only one Holy Spirit.

On the Wisdom of God vs. the wisdom of the world

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I'm praying against negative people comes my way. i seem to attract negative people and i don't know why. i'm very kind. i'm asking God to take negative people away from me.

Please remember me and my family in your prayers , remember all the travelers this Holiday weekend ,

Thank You so much Bibleman. thanks for the advice. yes it's hard. i'm trying my best to unattach myself from the site. it's not a good site. the people there are rude and disgusting. but i'm praying God take me away from it. God bless.

I'm sorry I didn't write back right away. We had a great day that day. The Lord blessed us that day. GIGI, thanks for praying for us.