All Discussion PAGE 431

Hello Chris,

I was thinking upon this phrase as you have explained here. I think that the speaker are Babylonians who worshipped many deities and this is why it is said that the fourth is as a son of the gods.

I think that this explanation is an accurate translation because it was the pagans who were expressing their beliefs. But as believers we can recognize that it was not some pagan deity in the fire with the the three Israelites, but either an archangel or pre-incarnate Christ-the Angel of the Lord.

Thank you so much for bringing this view forward in this discussion. Going to the original Hebrew and Greek helps us to find a meaning closer to what was intended by those who wrote the words as they were inspired by God.

well continue reading the word. john 17:3

Matthew 16:18,19

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In verse 18 the "rock" is Christ Himself, not Peter. And the "church" is the "eternal church" i.e. All whom God has saved, not the local churches and and denominations.

Verse 19 more properly translated, as I understand it, should read like this

: And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall having been bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall having been loosed in heaven.

In other words, the action is God's action reflected in the action of true believers as they are faithful to the Word of God. It is not God's reaction to the action of the believers; it is the other way around.

Thanks for your kindness .

Well said and Amen to you .

Let us glory in the Lord for He is our help i will remember you in my Prayers Amen.

The Bible

This is a very long thread which I have not read through and do not plan to. I will just say this.

If we hope to come to truth, we must start with the understanding the Bible is the very WORD OF GOD. That is, in the original Hebrew and Greek every word and phrase is from the Mouth of God. God did not merely plant thoughts and ideas in the minds and hearts of Paul and Peter and Isaiah and Jeremiah, etc. and then guide them to write in their own style so that we cannot compare a word or phrase in Romans to Peter or Jeremiah or Isaiah. Some would teach this but it is not so. The Bible has ONE AND ONLY ONE AUTHOR. And that is God Himself.

This means that we want a translation that is as faithful on a word by word basis to the original languages as possible. Even if the translators did not understand precisely what God was teaching in a particular passage.

I am not a Bible scholar, but my understanding is that, in the English language, the King James version comes closest to this principle.

Fortunately, in our day, God had given us tools like concordances and interlinears so that we, and especially anyone that claims to be a teacher, can check out the translation of any word or phrase from the original languages where those words and phrases are used by God throughout the Bible.

In approaching the Bible we must understand that the Bible is its own interpreter as we compare scripture with scripture using the principles that God declares in the Bible itself. And that, particularly in our day, God is revealing or clarifying certain truths from the Bible that were there all the time but it had not been God's time to reveal them to believers ( Daniel 12:9).

Ultimately it is God Himself that leads us into truth as we search the scriptures applying the principles that God Himself declares in His Word.

Please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Praise God forever ! I love that you recognise your total dependence on God , that's a strong and accurate conclusion , when we come to it , we truly realise the extent of God's love and mercy and generosity towards us and His power , His alone , to preserve and sustain us through all our trials . God bless you for that awesome revelation !

Hello Jimbob. If I might slip a spanner in the works here in regard to Daniel 3:25: would you consider Daniel 5:14 please? "I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee." My question to you is: does this verse trouble you some? Should not the LORD God have allowed "the SPIRIT of God" be written here in the KJB? Yet in Hebrew, it is 'ruah elahin' (spirit of (the) gods).

Likewise, in Daniel 3:25, "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God"; in Hebrew, it is 'bar elahin' (son of (the) gods). And particularly in the Book of Daniel, this is not uncommon where Nebuchadnezzar & the Chaldeans are seen referring to 'gods' (i.e. the deities that he believed had divine manifestations): see Daniel 2:11,47; Daniel 4:8,9,18; Daniel 5:11,14.

Therefore, I submit that what we see here in Daniel, are the beliefs that the king had in respect to deities. Not only to the 'gods' but also to the 'spirit of the gods' & the 'son of the gods'. In these portions, these are not God's Words related to us, but Nebuchadnezzar's & they must reflect his belief & understanding. But when we get to Daniel 3:28, we read that Nebuchadnezzar at last realized that this wasn't a 'son of the gods', in the furnace, but that the One & True God (the God of Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego) had sent His angel to deliver these faithful men.

Now the question: was this angel indeed the pre-incarnate Jesus, or were the translators exercising some liberty to show that it was the Son of God? I believe that the NIV & other translations are correct here as both the Hebrew & the context of Nebuchadnezzar's beliefs & words portray what he saw in the furnace as 'one sent from the deities'. If we then choose to read that Jesus was present there & not an angel, then that belief must be a personal choice.

Jimbob,

Are you seriously asking me if I believe Psalm 12:6-7 is true? Well, I must say that I am humored by that question. I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to answer that one. I said that I didn't agree with Daniel 3:25, but unless I specifically said anything about it being sound doctrine, please do not tell me what I think because you have no idea what I think.

Jimbob, I have never once said that I doubt the KJB is the True Word of God. That is an assumption on your part, and a poor one at that! In fact, I've said that the KJB is the only Bible I own, the one I read and study from, and my Bible of choice, so your assumption falls completely flat!

I'll answer one more question, and then I am done with this conversation. You ask me how can I possibly know that God didn't use King James like God used so many others to fulfill His Word?

I have no way of knowing that, just the same as you have no way of knowing that He did. So where does that leave us? Should we just make assumptions?

Jimbob, if it makes you feel any better, I have no plans on trading in my King James Bible. But if you are wanting me to believe that "ALL" modern versions are corrupt, I need something more solid as proof, not just telling me they are all corrupt.

There are a few other "modern" versions that I find to be very solid. There is no reason for me to list them since your mind is already made up that they are all corrupt!

If you're not angry with me yet, I would like your thoughts on the Geneva Bible.

Jimbob, I do wish you well. You seem a little too extreme for me, but that's okay. I admire your zeal.

May the Lord continue to bless you, and may you continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Good night!

Amen to that. yes we have gone through the same trails these past few days and and months, but i know God will see us through these difficult times...just stay focused on Him..

Jesse Lets look at the definition of the word (sound) from ( 2 Tim. 4:3) The word (sound) is 5198; it means to be uncorrupt (true in doctrine) UNCORRUPT, TRUE IN DOCTRINE is what ((sound doctrine is)).

Now lets look at ( Dan. 3:25) from a KJB and the Niv and see which is sound, or True in doctrine?

The KJB ( Dan. 3:25) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

The Niv same verse says "He said, Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods"



Was it the Son of God walking in the fire with them Jesse?

Or was it a son of the gods walking in the fire with them?

Which of these verses are True in doctrine Jesse?

That verse is sound doctrine.

The other is CORRUPT by definition!

This is the Truth, If its not Truth then Please show what's not correct.

Thank you Jesse.

Blessings.

Jesse Please answer this. Do you believe ( Ps. 12:6-7) is True? You say you don't agree with ( Dan. 3:25) in the Niv book, yet you think it is sound doctrine? It is either sound doctrine or its not sound doctrine, there are no in betweens. If its not then that is what we are warned about in ( 2 Tim. 4:3-4) Its that simple, its either sound doctrine or its corrupt! The reason I compare the Niv is that I happen to have one from years ago that's why I compare it. But I believe ALL modern versions are corrupt (changed) words of men. Modern versions are all private interpretation. I didn't mention those verses you presented because my KJB has over 2000 pages, the Niv has over 2000 pages. I've not gotten around to all of it yet, give me a little more time Jesse. Truth stands!

About when God preserved His Word? ( Ps. 12:7) Tells us "from this generation for ever" It sounds like that means from the time period, or the generation the book of Psalms was written FOR EVER! So that means we have to have that preserved Word today. From all these comparisons you have seen, you still doubt the KJB is the True Word of God. That is truly disheartening Jesse.

You mentioned ( Mt. 4:4) in the Niv saying "but on every word that comes from the mouth of God". Do you see that as a positive in this discussion? I completely disagree. If one said it why is the other not saying it? (confusion) Both said the same thing in the KJB! Thats ((another reason to doubt)) the Niv not trust it.

You said "God Inspired and commissioned those holy men who gave us His Word". He did in ( 2 Pet. 1:19-21) ((prophecy)) is the subject in those verses. Thats how we got the pure, Inspired Word of God today. (The prophecy).

You said the KJB translators were commissioned by King James himself. How could you possibly know that God didn't use him like God used so many others to fulfill His Word? After all God cannot lie, He said He would preserve His Word for ever

( Ps. 12:6-7) And He did! No offence Jesse. Blessings.

Well said, Jesse.

Hello again,

Pt. 2

Our sinfulness is fueled by our sinful nature. This type of "fleshly works" are evil and we should see that we do not condone such acts in ourselves or others while at the same time knowing how we cannot renovate ourselves into a godly person. So we are to look upon people in general as in need of sympathy without haughtiness towards others or feeling superior to others in any way. We are all in the same way as far as our sinfulness. But the difference between believers and non believers is that believers have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and brought to faith by Him and are being sanctified by Him. Instead of being aghast at the depth of terrible sins that others create, but rather we should look at such awful outward behaviors as needing the blood of Jesus to take them away and as requiring this work of the Holy Spirit to create anew those offenders who do such horrendous things. The best thing we can do is to pray for the salvation of their soul and also use any opportunity we may be given to share Christ with others.

Sometimes we just need to remove ourselves from those whose conduct is corrupting or harmful to us. We may need to do what is safe for ourselves and our children who depend on us. We may need to all the more live in godly ways to heap hot coals upon the heads of those who revile us for doing what is good and godly. ! Peter has a lot to say about this topic.

But overall, we must be humble in our souls, mind, heart, knowing how easy it is for us to fall into sin. We must think that if it is so easy for us who are being saved to sin, how much more so for those without the Holy Spirit's indwelling Presence and work in them. We ought to wonder how it is that they can even resist sinful desires at all!

We must remember that we are but "flesh" and therefore we are weak and far from the glorious beings God intended for us to be at the beginning and how much more glorious we will be when Jesus comes and glorifies us forever.

Please be in prayer for Paul Hildreth who was just diagnosed with prostate cancer. Thank you so much.

Good Evening Richard.

Good ideas posted here. One thing for us to remember is that of the several ways the Bible uses the word "flesh".

When it is referring to the sinful nature that resides in our soul, then we can say that this is evil in all of its ways.

When it is referring to the natural needs and desires of the body, we can say that any of these that do not proceed from the action of the sinful nature upon a person can be considered good and a positive part of how God made us from the beginning before the fall. We are not to hate our physical flesh and its natural needs. We also are not to be overly concerned about the needs we feel since Jesus said that we are not to worry about what we will eat or wear because the Father knows what we need and supplies these needs according to His love, mercy, and grace.

When we are referring to the flesh as pertaining to as temptations of our flesh by the world, society, peer pressure, etc., then we are to resist such temptations and flee from all occasions that will lead us into sin. We are not to be worldly minded or run after the appetites of our flesh because we are to keep our desires and how we express these contained into godly ways to satisfy them.

When we are referring to all mankind or people with the word flesh, then we can remember that each person is a good creation of God. It is good that He created each of us. The way He created our bodies and its functions are good. So we are to look at others through the lens of love and compassion, respect and acknowledgment of their intrinsic value God.

But we are also to remember that every person God has created in all ages has a sinful nature and is a sinner in need of salvation, God's grace and mercy, and benevolence ad goodness to survive from breath to breath, heartbeat to heartbeat. We depend on God always. But sin causes estrangement from Him, offends Him, and requires a satisfactory way to bring us back to Him. Jesus does this to the ultimate degree.

Earth dwellers vs Ephesians 2:6 believers

Having an Ecclesiastes 7:10 moment is something I have asked myself; being born in the "baby boomer" era in the 60's. I was; admittedly well protected from knowing about the Vietnam war fought overseas or anyone involved in it with my parents raising me. It was high school before a friend of mine whose older brother was affected from being there where I got my first exposure to the effects of that conflict. I was in an affluent upper middle class neighborhood; an only child who got all the attention at Christmas with material goods; enough to eat; enough sleep and whose world was not much more than what was in my neighborhood where my schools were; and a couple local shopping centers. Time seemed to go real slow; and I always enjoyed going to the shore on summer vacations. Basically; I didn't have too many cares in life.

Things would mar that utopia for me; first my dad's mentally abusive behavior; then bullies who would beat me up; steal from me and otherwise mistreat me from about 3rd grade up through high school. I thank God that I had the opportunity after 2 individuals witnessed to me to come to Christ in Senior High.

It is easy to be selective only remembering good times in the past. I certainly had less responsibilities before taking on steady work and marrying shortly after college.

Today; with all the structures of society tearing apart I have found it easy to succumb to constant fear. Knowing the horror of the Tribulation to come it is worse if I don't warn others but also it is necessary to remember that my life is hidden in Christ. ( Colossians 3:3). Fear of death is something that some have their whole lives ( Heb. 2:15). 1 Cor. 15:66 states that the sting of sin is death. Knowing we must pass through the Tribulation before He comes back to rule and reign even if I'm raptured and not here still is grievous thinking of others in it. These things must come to pass in His plans.

Several passages in Revelation refer to those who "dwell on the earth." These are those who are not written in the Book of Life and who will take the Mark of the Beast.

All of us are asked to be in the world but not of it as believers. ( John 17:15-21). That which appeals to the flesh is not of God and the flesh and the Spirit contend with one another ( Galatians 5:17). We understand this in light of the fact that we are not to think that anything done in the flesh is inherently evil as those who accused Christ of being a "glutton and winebibber" ( Matt. 11:19). Marriage is honorable and the marriage bed undefiled ( Heb. 13:4); but God judges all those who go outside of the parameters God has set forth as indicated by the rest of that passage. We see more of this in the book of Corinthians ( 1 Cor. 10:31) to give glory to God whenever we eat or drink or do anything else.

In this world; the spirits of disobedience ( Eph. 2:2) and the Prince of the power of the air were who we were subjected to. 2 Corinthians 4:4 states that the god of this world has blinded men's minds to the truth. We should as believers hold fast to the promises of God in regard to verses such as Luke 10:19 as to Christ's victory over Satan and his minions. What the enemy can do; however is gain legal access into our lives with unconfessed sins; and destroy our testimony. I think I can say fairly confidently that the warfare in Ephesians 6 is almost always increased once one truly is saved; and particularly when the Lord has great plans in our lives. Great; of course is defined as important for His Kingdom not necessarily seen or acknowledged by anyone; or just a few should we need encouragement.

We should expect that much physical; emotional and mental suffering in our lives is due to interference from these entities. It is hard to extricate spiritual warfare in regard to the wounds on the soul and those on our physical body. I will elaborate on victory in future posts.

Jimbob,

You are not suggesting that I do not trust God and believe His Word, are you? You already know that I read and study from the same Bible you do, and I have already stated that I am not defending the NIV (nor condemning), so as far as Daniel 3:25 (NIV) is concerned, I don't feel that I need to explain anything to you concerning that verse. However, I will say that I don't agree with it.

I would like to know why you chose the NIV specifically to go after if you believe all modern English translations are corrupt? (I have my suspicion) but would like your honest answer to that. Also, there are several other modern English translations out there, which one will you go after next? Not trying to be offensive, just curious.

If you don't mind answering why you failed to mention those NIV verses I presented to you, I would truly appreciate it.

Also, you brought up Luke 4:4 (KJB), and said that the NIV left out "but by every word of God." Have you considered the fact that Matthew 4:4 (NIV) says, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

I do agree that God said He would preserve His word forever. The book of Revelation was completed around 95 AD. Did we not have the complete inspired word of God with the completion of Revelation?

If so, at what point between 95 AD and 1611 AD was God's word no longer preserved and required a new English Bible to be written?

And the "holy men of God" that God inspired were Moses, the Prophets, the Apostles, and a few others (not the translators of the KJB).

God inspired and commissioned those holy men who gave us His inspired word. The KJV translators were commissioned by King James himself.

Blessings to you also, Jimbob!

God bless you Marcusbeblessed.

and Amen Jema!

The Lord came to do for us what we can't do for ourselves.

He gives us his spirit that performs this. The ability to Love, forgive, longsuffering, Joy and peace.

We commit ourselves to him and his word. Faith and patience is a virtue that will come out of that.

God bless you.

Hi Jimbob.

I was intended to research the NIV in the same manner Brother Jesse did!

Praise God that he did so because I was just going to search the surrounding verses around the text you provided.

I wasn't going to lift out other scriptures.

That settles it for me.

We don't know the intentions of the translators!

My focus is on the interpreter.

"Does he have an blood tipped ear?"

This is the reason why we must be careful in our study of the Word of God, that we not run ahead of the Spirit of God, but that we let Him be our teacher. If you have a blood-tipped ear, He wants you to hear what He has to say.

Only the Spirit of God can make the Word of God real to you.

It seems that others decided to exit this discussion,

I believe you guys covered a lot so I will leave this one alone.

God bless you.

Jesse thank you for your response. I guess it all comes down to whether or not we trust God and Believe His Word Jesse!

I completely trust and believe the Words of the LORD are pure Words that are preserved for ever as we are told in ( Ps. 12:6-7).

How would you explain ( Dan. 3:25)? The Niv says "and the fourth looks like a son of the gods".

A son of the gods? What gods is the Niv speaking of here? Thats Jesus Christ they are saying looks like a son of the gods Jesse. Is that verse from the Niv Inspired by God? Please explain?

Here's a good one.

In the KJB ( Ps. 12:6-7) v6 The subject is the Words of the LORD. v7 Tells us "Thou shalt (keep) them, O LORD, thou shalt (preserve) them from this generation for ever". The word (keep) is #8104; it means to hedge about (as with thorns) i.e. guard, to protect. The word (preserve) is #5341; it means to guard (to protect, maintain, obey) The KJB verse 7 tells us God is guarding and protecting the Words of the LORD, even FOR EVER!

The Niv completely eliminates the chance to find this truth through deceptively removing the whole verse and replacing it with words of pure confusion!

In the Niv the same verses say v6 "And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times". v7 says " O LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever".

Jesse how can v7 in the Niv be a translation problem when it is completely off the subject where their verse makes no sense at all? This verse is nothing but confusion! God is not the author of confusion ( 1 Cor. 14:33) The word (confusion) is #181; it means instability, i.e. disorder, inconstant, unstable. The definition of confusion fits perfectly what the Niv did with ( Ps. 12:7) and many other verses in their book.

The Words of the LORD are pure Words not confusion!

The Truth should be all that matters to ALL Believers in Jesus Christ. ( John. 8:31-32) "If ye continue in my words"

I am defending the True Word of God!

Blessings.

I would like to praise the Lord God and Jesus Christ of Nazareth, for keeping me sane in all trials I have been facing since 2021. God connected me with the right people to reach out to for counselling when I couldn't stand ,somedays, due to emotional pain of watching my business collapse in December 2021, losing all my investment capital.

Thank you Lord for a husband who keeps providing for our family, while I have no income. Thank you Lord for healthy children that love you. Thank you Lord for all the lessons I have learned since 2021, I thought I knew you Lord, until I lost everything, but still you did not cast me away, instead your grace sustained me since then to this day.

Thank you Lord that my season of trials is coming to an end in 2023 and that my relationship with you God has become better, deeper and stronger throughout.Thank you for wisdom and boldness you have given me throughout this trying time.I have learned to stand up for myself (and others)during this process and speak for myself (and others) against injustice and unfairness, with boldness, knowing that I have no money, power or earthly connections to back me up, but only your Holly Spirit and your Word(Bible) to guide me and be my witness. I'm wholly dependent on you Lord and I feel safe more than ever, Amen.

Thank you for these words, they set me free when my mother passed away this year end of March " maybe we expect too much from our parents , they are just ordinary human beings , therefore some are better at parenting than others "

Jema, thank you for all of this, What you said about seeing myself in Gods eyes is the nail on the hammer. Me seeing myself in others eyes is my trigger. I havent gone to church or been in the body of christ ever in my life although i'am a believer and God said that the work he starts in a man he will finish. I need to go to church and be in the body of christ. I will start doing this, I am only a man and I try to be double minded in my life becuase of pride, obviously it isnt working and I make a fool of myself. Thank you for your help sister. I love you and you helped me. God has spoken through you and I see things more clearly, I feel so much better and stable thanks to you, and Yahweh. thank you so very much. Also what you said about your mother is exactly how I feel. I need to stop trying to saticfy my family and do what god intended for me to do.

Jimbob,

I think we both agree that the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ is very important. I was drawn to your comparison of Colossians 1:14 between the NIV and the KJB. I do not own an NIV but I have a few bible software programs that give me access to multiple bibles.

Anyway, I looked this up for myself. You are correct. But was it the intent of the NIV to eliminate or diminish the blood sacrifice? I don't believe so. I read a little further down in the same chapter (Verse 20) which reads, "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross"

If it was the intent of the NIV to leave out the words "through His blood," why would it be mentioned in other places, especially in Ephesians 1:7 (NIV) which reads, "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins."

You would think that if the NIV was intentionally trying to remove the blood sacrifice, then it would not be found in any other place.

Is there any reason why you fail to mention other verses in the NIV such as Romans 3:25 that says "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood," 1 Peter 1:18-19 which mentions the precious blood of Christ, Ephesians 2:13 which says we have been brought near by the blood of Christ," Hebrews 9:14, "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" or Revelation 1:5 which says "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood."

It doesn't seem fair to only bring up Colossians 1:14 without mentioning these other verses, especially Ephesians 1:7.

I am not defending the NIV, but I'm also not condemning it either.

Blessings to you in Christ Jesus!

Hi Jimbob.

No I haven't read it, though I don't know their intention for this However you do have ve a point.

I will when I get home I will read it.

And yes those verses loses virtu of the intended message.

please pray for Gianna and her family, something very serious is going on please pray for them. thank you.