All Discussion PAGE 435

Good Evening Jimbob,

I appreciate your reply to me on this topic As I can see that we will not come to a common place of agreement on this particular topic, I don't wish to continue to respond out of respect for you and for myself. I am not offended, I just cannot see this conversation being edifying or fruitful. I do think that "morning star" (or similar) aligns very closely with the Greek used, as Giannis has shared. Lucifer was never a part of the original texts.

Have an blessed night. I am sure we will converse on other topics soon.

GiGi thank you for your response. I honestly do not see how you can come to a conclusion that "morning star" would be a correct translation because the word "Lucifer" is derived from Latin GiGi. I would say the correct translation was made in 1611. God did promise us He would preserve His Words for ever in ( Ps. 12:6-7) As we look at ( Isa. 14:12) in the KJB it has said "Lucifer" for over 400 years which causes no confusion, but it does tell us the Truth which is (Lucifer fell from heaven)! Now we have many modern versions who replace the Words of the LORD with words that create confusion. As I have posted many times in the past we see in ( Jer. 23:36) The word (perverted) is # 2015; it means to change. Every Word of God is pure (Pro. 30:5-6)

All modern version Bibles have changed their Words, some even changed their words again after they have already changed their words. (There is probably 40 or 50 or more different modern version Bibles) How is that anything other than confusion? ( 1 Cor. 1:10) Please read ( 1 Cor. 1:10) again. How can that verse be possible if many people read from many different Bibles that have changed their words and all say something different? That is not possible.

If we Believe in God, then we should Believe His Words, Every Word of God is the Truth and He did preserve His Word forever? As in (Ps.12:6-7). We may continue to disagree here GiGi.

But I do Thank you for responding GiGi. God Bless you.

Giannis thank you for that explanation, I really do appreciate all the responses on this post. But everyone seems to have gotten away from the main point of the post. Who is fallen from heaven? Lucifer is! In ( Luke. 10:18) Jesus says He beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven. That was definitely Satan, or Lucifer who was falling from heaven. ( Isaiah. 14:12-15) in the KJB v12 Tells us that it was Lucifer.

Why would the Niv Bible take away the name (Lucifer) and replace it with the name Jesus clearly applied to Himself in ( Rev. 22:16)? the bright and morning star. In ( 2 Tim. 3:16) It tells us (All scripture is given by inspiration of God)

Do you think the Inspired Word of God would remove the name Lucifer and replace it with O morning star? Which completely takes away the ((FACT)) ((proving that it was Lucifer)) or Satan, and not Jesus Christ who had fallen from heaven? People who only use the Niv Bible could be really mislead or deceived by such a change, wouldn't you say that's a true statement Giannis? ( 1 Cor. 14:33) Tells us "God is not the author of confusion". The word (confusion) is #181; it means instablity, disorder, tumult, inconstant, unstable. Couldn't that change in the Niv cause much confusion? For 400 or so years the KJB said the same thing in this verse, (Lucifer) Thats stability, its order, constant, and stable. It is the Inspired Word of God. All the changes in the modern versions make it confusion.

The Niv says pretty much the same thing as the KJB in ( Rev. 22:16) yet they completely change ( Isa. 14:12) which is causing much confusion for new readers. Also ( 1 Cor. 1:10) Says we should all speak the same thing, and there be no divisions among you, and that we be ((perfectly joined together in the same mind)) and in the same judgment.

Is that possible with all the modern version Bibles that are all saying something different? I say no it is not possible, But it is causing much confusion!

Again thank you Giannis. God Bless you.

Hi Giannis. Thank you. Thats what I am hoping and praying for as well, is to be completely freed from these chains of sin. To the point of not struggling with it as an addict but as someone that has never fallen in to this type of addiction. Thank you for your prayers. I hope that in doing this fast that I can strengthen someone else's faith and lead more people to Christ as well.

May God bless you!

As Giannis said , attributing the power of the only living God Almighty , the Holy One of Israel , to anyone or anything else other than God , is blasphemy . As God says in many places , there is no other , He is God alone and He is a jealous God . Isaiah Ch 42 verses 1-8 .

John ray,

Who are the people who walk in darkness? Look to the high places. How about Washington DC. Oh, my, you see these things happening in our country. You see the evil everywhere. Visit Fox news. We wrestle againt the rulers of the world.

We wrestle againt the rulers of the world in a spiral since. We wrestle againt the guy that leads them. 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil". We put on that armour to resist those little fiery

darts he is always throwing at us. Bless you John ray

Jonah: The reluctantant Prophet

It seems hard to fathom why the Lord would call and commission Job when; knowing all things He would have expected him to take such an aversive action of going in the other direction; then when he finally obeyed the commission after dying or nearly dying in the body of the fish he still was upset that the large city repented of Nineveh.

What is equally interesting and often flies off the radar is God's concern for the huge population of heathen who; according to historians oppressed Israel and eventually God destroyed as seen in Nahum. Other than individual rulers such as the case of Nebuchadnezzar under Daniel or perhaps healing of Naaman the Syrian we don't see such an evangelistic campaign anywhere else before the New Testament. Jonah 4:10 shows God's concern contrasted with the vine which was Jonah's sole comfort being taken away.

What we do see here also is how those called and chosen by God are hunted down; I like to refer to it as the hounds of heaven.

We do see with Jonah's message it was for repentance; there was the obvious fear of God of the Hebrews as evidenced by the men who cast him into the sea; and no reluctance as was seen with Pharoah in the case of Moses. The ruler himself put on sackcloth and declared no man or beast was to eat or drink. ( Jonah 3:5). It is hard to conceive that they would have all ceased from food or water for 40 days including animals without a huge casualty rate; surely if they survived that it would be a miracle.

It seems plausable that God relented well before the 40 days were up under those circumstances; or the ruler implied a shorter fast; but if Jonah declared that it was not mentioned. He was sitting around to "see what would happen"; after he declared the city's destruction in 40 days.

Think about it; there were 120000 saved; certainly genuine repentance among some or God wouldn't have relented. How Job could have been disappointed is hard to fathom.

Thank you also GiGi, have a nice day yourself as well.

GBU

Hello Saddle-Shop-Ministries

Sorry, I misunderstood your post, I thought you were confused. I wish you to be freed by God. During my christian life I have met people who God freed them completely from very distructive passions like, say, drugs, like they had never taken them before in their life.

So be encouraged and relax on God's Grace.

GBU

Giannis,

Thank you for this explanation. I was not trying to make things complicated. I just wished to present how any person is considered righteous before God and a receiver of God's grace towards salvation.

I think that so many people in both testaments and throughout human history have thought that they could by their own effort and deeds be righteous in God's eyes. But the passages I brought forward make it clear that no man can attain righteousness before God without the righteousness that comes by faith. And this righteousness is that of Christ's perfect life and perfection as the divine Son of God that is placed upon us who believe. He takes away our sins and gives us His own righteousness lived out in His humanity in place of our sins and wickedness before God.

Have a good day, Giannis.

hi Giannis! I can see where you might think I was saying that epilepsy is a sin. I was not saying that all cases of epilepsy are sin. The main cause for epilepsy is stress on the body. Whether that stress is caused by sin in the life of the body or by something ells. Only the person struggling with it can tell where that stress is coming from. I was trying to say that according to the KJB and some research that I have done, that the words lunatic and epileptic are derivative from the same latin word lunaticus which originally referred mainly to epilepsy and madness, as diseases thought to be caused by the moon. The King James Bible records "lunatic" in the Gospel of Matthew, which has been interpreted as a reference to epilepsy. I have had epileptic symptoms while committing the sin of adultery therefore the stress of knowing that I am committing sin is causing my epilepsy. It's a shame that we have drifted so fare from God that we start putting names for sin so that we can diagnose it as a disease or mental disorder when God just called it sin. The definition for lunatic is "great or wild foolishness" And anyone that would trade Gods love for pornography, adultery, lust, or any of the things in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 or anything that cools our affection for God is a lunatic and sore vexed with sin. I might add that LUST is a sin. Romans 1:21-32 James 1:14-15 Mark 4:19 Matthew 5:27-28 What I am trying to accomplish in this fast is Psalms 51:9-17

P.S. Yes I am married to a wonderful woman that is supporting me in this fast and is helping through this. She prays for me every day.

Amen Gigi.

The Jewish day begins in the evening.

In Genesis it repeatedly says

"and the morning were the first day."

Then comes the morning star and then the day.

We start our life in darkness then comes Christ,

Now we are the Children of the day.

2 Peter 1:19

Christ came into the world to light up every man but some love darkness.

John 1:4-10

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Blessings

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need. Lord Jesus please fight our battles.

Thank you for responding I've talked to a lot of people I tried to feed the soul not to flush but it seems over the years a lot of people have their own opinion I know Jesus can do anything so I've made a choice just to find out why are things so bad put your input on Ephesians 612 your input would be appreciated

Pt 2, GiGi

Please pay attention to that "their righteousness". This is a MAN'S RIGHTOUSNESS, which as I said is far away from God's perfect righteouness. This MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS could never get us into Heaven due to the sins we all do. That is why all those people were not going to Heaven but in Abrahams place in Hades.

In the N.T. Jesus was sacrificed for our sins. So now we still try to be righteous in our lives and when we fail we have Jesus' Blood for our sins to be erased and hence we stand before God as righteous people. This righteousness is not a result of our efforts to be so but it is a result of God's grace to us. That is why it is now called GOD'S RIGHTEOUNESS. It is the perfect righteousness. It is gifted to us by God. And this kind of righteousness will get us into Heaven, whether a Jew or a gentile, there is no difference at all as far as salvation is concerned.

So there is a distintion between OT righteousness which is man's righteousness and the NT one which is God's righteousness.

But as I said my purpose when I answered that post was not to analyze all those things we all kknow but just give a simplified quick answer. I don't think that we disagree on that subject.

GBU

Pt 1

Hello GiGi

My purpose when answering that post from Yasser was not actually to dig deep in the Word of God but just simplify it in a simple answer.

I also believe that there will not be an Israelitic Kingdom on this earth, neither in the futute earth. Those promises that were said for Israel by God were and are still fulfilled in the church. The only promise that is left yet for Hebrews is their salvation. And we know that that will take place during the antichrist's rule on this earth at the end. Besides according to the scriptures there is no room left for an Israelitic kingdom. it is not going to happen now, neither in the last week, neither in the millenium, neither on the new earth that will be creared by God after the final Judgement.

I don't believe that there are different requirements for Hebrews and gentiles as far as salvation is concerned. We all are justified by the Blood of the Lamb.

What I wanted to say is:

In the O.T. there were people who tried to be righteous, they made efforts to follow God's Will. But like all people they were doing sins. So we have people that did righteous things but also sins. So they were in a sence righteous, this is called MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is not a perfect righteousness, actually it is far far away from what God calls righteousness. But still God sometimes called them rightous because He appriciated their efforts, like Zacharias and Elisabeth in Luke 1:6, "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.". Also Noe is called righteous, Genesis 6:8-9, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

Also read Ezekiel 14:14, "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."

Thank you S. Spencer

I knew that angels are called morning stars in Job.

And yes, Jesus is the ultimate "Morning Star" from whom all other beings receive the light that makes them shine forth this light.

I guess that this shining is something that is a created aspect of the beings of angels, therefore Satan did not lose this aspect of his being although light is usually associated with holiness.

We, too, will shine in the eternal state, having acquired glorified bodies like unto Jesus.

Thank you Giannis

Your explanation clarifies things well.

hello Jimbob

The devil was once a bright Herub, probably the most powerful angel among all of them. second in place after God. But he revolted against God and tried to take His place in Heaven. And so God made him a devil. The scripture in Ezekiel 28:11-19 gives an account of what had happened. The scripture is refered to the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it refers to satan. GBU

Hello GiGi

Just for information.

You are right "Lucifer" comes from Latin. The greek is "Eosphoros", also "Phoshoros". The Engl. word "Phosphorus" which is a chemical element which shines comes from this word. ts precise meaning is something or someone that brings light, although the former is used nowadays in grk only for the devil and the latter only for that chemical element. In ancient times that name was given to a star that was very bright during the first few hours at down. Today we know that that star is planet Venus which is the brightest star in the sky after the sun.

That name also appears in the Septuagint as "Eosphoros who you rise in the morning" instead of "Lucifer son of the morning" in the Masoretic ( Isaiah 14:12).

Another time that that name appears in the Bible, as Phosphoros, is in Peter 2:19, (KJB) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:". In the grk text the phrase "day star" is written as "Phosphoros". Hence it is reffered to Jesus Christ.

Also in Rev 22:16 the KJB has translated the grk precisely.. It also is refered to Jesus Christ.

I believe in the Book of Isaiah Lucifer is called the morning star because before becoming satan he was a bright Herub, see also Ezekiel 28:11-19. That scripture was for the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it is attributed to devi.

Also Spencer says something right, that all angels are called "morning stars', J( ob 38:7), so satan was one of them probably the most powerful before revolting against God as that scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 indicates. But enough with devil, I think...

GBU

John ray,

Sorry, I did not catch this comment. I would like to say be very careful who you listen to, for the Kenites are still with us today.

They begin the sons of Cain, are a very smart bunch. Christ would tells us about them in St. John Ch. 8, how about Luke 11:48, read Amos 8:11.

The word of God is true and Pure, and it cannot be broken Amen.

Hi Gigi.

The old testament hope is the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. Malachi 4:2.

The morning star always rises at the darkest time of the night.

It indicates that the sun will be coming up shortly.

Job 3:9. "Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:

Here in Job 38:7 it indicates there's several morning stars.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Isaiah 14:12 indicates Satan is just one of the many.

I believe Jesus is the Morning star for the Saints, Letting us know there's Light ahead of these dark times.

2Peter 1:19 puts it this way;

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Hopefully someone can add .

God bless.

Please Rember me and my family today in your prayers

This post has been really helpful to me . I am struggling to honour my parents at the moment . They are not religious at all . They are both elderly and vulnerable alcoholics with many health problems . My mom in particular enjoys giving me a hard time , she always has done so . Humiliating me in front of others , belittling me etc . She knows that I won't argue back with her . It's hard for me not to be hurt and embarrassed by this but recognising that it's the devil in her is a helpful concept that hadn't occured to me before . If nothing else , this will help me to be stronger and less sensitive to her attitude towards me and not bear a grudge towards her . Thank you for that .

Nicely explained , thank you .

Part 2, Continuation.

- So here Satan Knew very well what He was doing and one fact that you Mention in your post is that peter was a friend of The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God and Satan attempted to use this friendship and this moment to tempt The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God Also Satan knew very well what is written in Matthew 6:54 ,54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?.

- And to get a clear understanding of how Satan took over peter, remember the events of Judah when Satan entered him resulting to the betrayal of The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God. it's written in Luke 23:3-4 , Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. 4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him unto them.

hence you see here Satan was responsible for enticing both Judas and peter, Therefore Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God Rebuked peter by saying get behind me Satan. Jesus The Living God never said this word because he was in a cranky mood, but he rebuked Satan who was enticing peter to speak those words which he spoke to Jesus.

So, what lessons do we learn from this Events?

1. Always be on your Gurd as a Christian who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God, for our weapons is not carnal but might through God and we do not wrestle Flesh and blood but persons without bodies who are always looking for opportunity to entice us to Sin. so Put on the whole armor of God. its written in 2 Corinthians 10:3 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2. Satan will even attack someone close to you Just to get through to you and this is an example of his Attacks and it's important for every believer who believes the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God to Read your Bible To be given in Prayers and to fast before God and if anyone Lucks wisdom let him pray and ask the

Part 1

Hi

-Please pray for understand for God will give him who ask freely.

It's written in John 10:35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35, If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

meaning the bible cannot contradict itself. infact Jesus Has Said this in Proverbs 8:8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing froward or perverse in them.

So, my advice to you is to Kneel down and repent of your unbelief and ask The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God to Help you understand His words The sharp two- Eged sword.

In Matthew 6:22 -23. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

-What we fail to see here is this, Satan entered unto peter and he is using peter to try and deceive Jesus Christ not to Go to the Cross and if The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God would have not gone to the cross then the whole bible would be compromised, and every word of prophecy would collapse just by that one action. remember Just before Jesus was arrested by the temple Gurds/solders What He said unto them. in Matthew 27:53-54

53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Just to undergird the very good responses from brothers Giannis & Richard, MountHoreb; we need to bear in mind that to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost is not just speaking against some spirit as one could to some messenger sent by God - the one blaspheming is actually speaking against God Himself - hearing God's Words, seeing God's Works, having the Son of God come unto them & then declaring him (God) a devil. Jesus says that this is the most evil of sins against God: that to deny & curse Him, the One Who has great Mercy to save completely or has all Power to dissolve them in an instant.

Jesus in His Humanity, could take the taunts & abuses of men, for that is Who He was in the world & how He came from within the Divine Personages; but the Holy Spirit in Jesus did not come representing God, but is God Himself, through His Son, manifesting Himself to the world. As the Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy ( 1 Timothy 3:16): "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." If any speak against & curse this Great God (coming in the flesh, initiating the only possible salvation for mankind, & then returning to Glory - through the manifesting of His Son & Holy Spirit), then their judgement & destiny are final.

Thanks Yasser72 for the clarification. And yes, you make a good point about a letter (whether personal or general to the Church(es); should that letter be sent out for further distribution? I had never considered any of the apostolic letters in such a way.

You gave the example of a postmaster opening & reading your letter to others. That normally would be a valid point because no one expects, or is lawful, to open up private mail & share the contents with others. The only thing with your example is that the letter in question is still current, the sender is alive & the recipients would also be hurt by knowing that others were privy to the contents. What if your personal letter was sent, intending that other believers in that city or country would gain benefit from it (e.g. through the media), but especially to the ones addressed? Or, if your letter was left in someone's drawer, was found 100 years after you died & indeed, the recipients also died, would it really matter to you or anyone else that your letter was found & read?

I think we have many examples of personal letters that exist today written by people of old that have been archived or published in newspapers/books. I really don't see a problem in this scenario, and I'm quite sure that Paul & the others wouldn't have minded that the contents of their letters receive a wider readership (see 1 Thessalonians 5:27 (could have included others that the Thessalonian Church had contact with) & Colossians 4:15,16). Even the Letter by John given by the Jesus Christ, was intended to be 'revealed unto his servants (all of us) things which must shortly come to pass...' ( Revelation 1:1). So I do believe that what we have in the Bible today, has been appointed by God & intended for the widest distribution so that all people might come to know the LORD & His Christ, made conscious of their sin, & run into the Arms of a Loving Savior. These letters have helped us greatly, causing us to understand & act upon this Truth.