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That solves a lot of other issues that tend to come from myopic spiritual eyes which need to focus on above and have a vision; lest the people perish.
God bless.
Rich P
It is dangerous to make a blanket statement about cessation of gifts because it is an attempt to put God in a box that we can understand. As to tongues; for instance it is clear from those familiar with the occult that demonic tongues exist; so clearly God can counter it with angelic ones if He so chooses. I have had a few dreams and or words of knowledge from others that were clearly from the Lord. Such things tend to be rare. All these so called specific predictions for the Rapture; for instance clearly go against scripture. But as you probably know the Reformed churches tend to be what is called "Post Millennial" or Amillennial; and they disregard numerous scriptures about the 1000 year reign of Christ found not only in Revelation but Isaiah and other O.T. texts. This is another attempt to symbolize what they consider to be a past event rather than acknowledgment that the Old Covenant on promises of land; etc still could be in conjunction with the New; although of course some things are unique to the Church Age. Again; that gets into another subject; covenant theology vs dispensations which I argue are both clearly indicated in scripture.
Of course for us as individuals; we need to focus on holiness which comes from a contrite spirit ( Psalm 51) and certainly not exclusive of scripture knowledge but also being led by the Spirit.
Agape.
I use to believe I had some German in me on my father's side but then he said I'm actually part Dutch. Who knows, the important thing is that I am an heir of Christ. :) :)
Here is the 2nd part on the history of the NIV. I'm not sure if you received it yet or maybe you got it twice???
and the "Contemporary English Translation" became the NIV. In 1967, the New York Bible Society (now called Biblica) took responsibility for the project and hired a team of 15 scholars from various Evangelical Christian denominations and from various countries. The initial "Committee on Bible Translation" consisted of Leslie Carlson, Edmund Clowney, Ralph Earle, Jr., Burton L. Goddard, R. Laird Harris, Earl S. Kalland, Kenneth Kantzer, Robert H. Mounce, Charles F. Pfeiffer, Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Francis R. Steele, John H. Stek, J. C. Wenger, Stephen W. Paine, and Marten Woudstra. The New Testament was released in 1973 and the full Bible in 1978. Professor of New Testament Studies Rodney J. Decker wrote in the Themelios Journal review of the NIV 2011:............"If we are serious about making the word of God a vital tool in the lives of English-speaking Christians, then we must aim for a translation that communicates clearly in the language of the average English-speaking person. It is here that the NIV excels. It not only communicates the meaning of God's revelation accurately, (of which I sorely disagree.) but does so in English that is easily understood by a wide range of English speakers. It is as well-suited for expository preaching as it is for public reading and use in Bible classes and children's ministries."
God Bless
We have the Parable of Jesus to indicate where the dead in Christ go to. "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;/And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."( Luke 16:22-23). Abraham's bosom and the depths are alike in the heavenly places. In Job 41 we have a clue to the rich man's discomfort. "Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron./His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth." (41:20-21) The place has another name 'bottomless pit' which is guarded by an angel Abbadon/Apollyon.(Re.9:11) As Abraham explains to the rich man in torment "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."( Luke 16:26) This fixity is like a door shut after the rapture. This is illustrated in the Parable of the Five Foolish Virgins' where the peril of negligence is very clear. "And the door was shut./Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us./But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."(Matt.25:10-12)
The direct line of vision does not ever change. While alive the beggar was in direct line of vision the rich man could see him at the gate. After death we find the rich man from his place could see Lazarus resting in the bosom of Abraham. There is another instance this direct line of vision is rather brought out indirectly. Moses brings people to meet God and when He descends the mountain quaked. "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because theLorddescended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly."(Ex.19: 16-18) . The same smoke from the bottomless pit, "and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace"(v.2
Proverbs 16:18 KJV
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Psalm 45:11 KJV
My Respond evidence scriptures:
'So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: For he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. '
Psalm 119:128
'Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right, And I hate every false way.'
Believing in God ( Romans 10:9-10) is a precept.
Matthew 6:33 KJV
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Ways you can seek God is by reading your bible, and praying. Reading your bible and prayer is a sign of worship.
2 Kings 9:30-37 KJV 2 Kings 10:1-36 KJV
My Respond:
Romans 10:9-10 allows you to become like God at the time you believe. Believing in God is a sign of worship.
Romans 10:9-10 KJV
9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Colossians 2:14 KJV
'blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; '
Ephesians 2:15-16 KJV
15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
God has blessed me to become like his image, my inner man having faith and believing in Jesus Christ ( Romans 10:9-10 KJV) becomes a sign of worship. Reading my Bible and praying allows things to be added to me food, raiment and to do God's commission.
Commission- The state of that which is entrusted, as the great seal was put into commission; or the state of being authorized to act or perform service
"And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."
God chose inheritors in light before the foundation of the world. They are as stars.
God set the children of wrath also in heavenly places. The word of God forever settled in heaven can change their composition. Faith of man is what God seeks. "TheLordlooked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God."(Ps.14:2)
Light and darkness have their own configurations so principalities, powers and rulers of the darkness of this world, have their correspondence with spiritual wickedness in high places. For example Michael an archangel fighting with his angel have rulers of the darkness in the depths. Behemoth is one such. "He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." ( Job 40:19). He is not to be confused with hippo or croc of the Nile. "Thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters, and thy footsteps are not known." Just as God garnished the heavens with starry host the crooked serpent or behemoths are grouped under 'thy way'.(Ps.77.19). In the same discourse God tells Job, "Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."(40:23)
The Single measurement which God has laid down where man and angel are composite realities on the Spirit that rules throughout His kingdom. What signifies a time, times and a half? Ministry of Jesus as the Spirit of Christ refer to the wonders he did is a time. For example the spiritual Rock,(1 Co.10:3-4) Times refer to the the slain Lamb-Re.13:8 and the Paschal Lamb heaven and earth and a half represents the gospel he preached in his Spirit to the souls in prison.
After rapture what is left of the earth are eternal habitations "that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."( Luke 16:9)
GOD is Spirit,the Word- John 1:1.He is greater than JESUS- John 14:28,and 5:19-20,and 12:49.GOD Himself,the Word,is self-executing, JESUS is not- John 5:30.They are One in Spirit,but not in existence personal->GOD the Father,and the Word MADE FLESH-JESUS,both are DISTINCTS Persons- Philippians 2:6-9.
GOD has put all things under the feet of JESUS- 1Corinthians 15:27, but Hebrews 2:8-12 say:...8But now we see not yet all things put under Him.9But we see JESUS,who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,crowned with Glory and Honour; that He by the Grace of GOD should taste death for every man.
1Corinthians 15:27-28
27For GOD has put all things under JESUS's feet.But when GOD saith all things are put under JESUS,it is manifest that GOD is excepted, which did put all things under JESUS.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto JESUS,then shall the Son also Himself be SUBJETED unto GOD that put all things under JESUS,that GOD may be all in all.
JESUS is the Spirit-GOD-MADE FLESH->GOD-Christ.Great mystery- John 1:14 combined with Colossians 2:9 and Philippians 2:6-11.Both are one Spirit- John 10:30,but two DISTINCTS Persons being the same Spirit Creator-GOD,having the SAME IMAGE,the image of the Spirit-GOD,one is invisible, and one is vsible- John 14:8-10.JESUS said: John 5:30->I can of mine own self do nothing:.
JESUS as the Greater Light,He commented about the lesser Light-the Person of the Holy Spirit-saying he is the Comfort,the Paraclete,and revealed what is the the mission of him here: John 16:7-15:(By analogy,the moon receive light from the sun,the moon has not ligh in it itself;the person of the Holy Spirit,the Comfort,he has not light in he himself,so he cannot speak anything if does not receive from JESUS- John 16:13.JESUS SAID:he shall receive of mine,and shall shew it unto you- John 16:14,and he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you- John 16:15)
JESUS commented about the mission of the Holy Spirit- John 16:7-15
Feel free.
Amen.
Thanks, brother, as you said I was just sharing my understanding that many do not agree, only if we, in prayer and study led by the Holy Spirit, can our understanding change. I know this doctrine has existed for 1600 years and to many, it is considered heresy to not agree. I am amazed at how many people have been killed because of it, even during the Reformation.
We can end this; I will only make one reply to Colossians 2:9. Do I deny the deity of Christ? No. Colossians was written about 30 years after Jesus was crucified, God raised Jesus from the sleep of death because death could not hold Him because Jesus was sinless, the man Jesus overcame the law by a perfect life, He fulfilled the law that was written for man that a man had to fulfill.
When God raised Jesus, He placed Him above all that is in Heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Ephesians 1:19-21 Philippians 2:9-11. This gave Jesus the full power of God's throne, but this did not happen until Jesus was victorious and resurrected, that is my understanding of Colossians 2:9. To me the word deity that was changed to Godhead is confusing and misleading.
Thanks for your discussion brother.
God bless,
RLW
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
Compare this with the woman in v.14, "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
What separates the gentiles and the Israelites are to be understood by the tags. The crown of twelve stars correspond with the place prepared by God. The usage 'her place' is not what God has chosen for but what she has herself created.
Before we come to it let us settle the matter of 12 and10. The former indicates the Gospel of God and the latter refer to the Law and the Decalogue in particular. Similarly we have the saying of Jesus as to the place prepared by God."In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."( John 14:2). This place is evidently heavenly places, where she is nourished for a time. The tag of 1260 days corresponds to the duration of the earthly ministry of Jesus. (Re.11:3) Of the many mansions let us say a place of refuge, evocative of the three cities of refuge, (Nu.35:11-28)
As with heavenly Zion and New Jerusalem being preserved in heavenly places we have also similar place for the left out church.
Whereas " a time, times and half time" is associated with Israel. (Dan.12:7; Re.11:2) Daniel would have wanted to know 'the end of these wonders?' but it was not meant for him. Additional clue is the tag of '42' which is more relevant for us, "and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(Re.13:5). The same red dragon is mentioned here. Because of God's mercies Israel may find her place, which perhaps could be where she is engaged in an existential war, because she had lost the rights to the lands of Palestine for her manifold sins. This shall change
"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number." Numbering stars as with names being written in the book of life are not to be taken literally but owes to His holiness. "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." (Is.40: 25-26). Compare this with another passage in the same chapter, "Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?" The Kingdom of God and of his dear Son are set in numbers, quantities,- linear or volumetric measurements are determined by the Law or the Word. So this single standard can be determined by the Man, the Word become flesh.
In the Vision the v.5 divides the narrative,- and rapture serves as the turning point for the church. "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them" (v.12) The cloud of witnesses have reason to rejoice. They are reconciled with saints redeemed from the earth. On the other hand it is woe to ye for the left out church, "inhabitants" as in the verse, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
v.13 marks the great tribulation, of which Jesus also corroborates,"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."(Matt.24:22). "But for the elect's sake" tells us that rapture comes in series. This has to do with the woman for whom God has prepared a place, And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14)
"Two wings of a great eagle" Ps.91:1;Ex.19:4
God divided light from darkness so one aspect signified divine nature and other the absence of it. Power and Wisdom of God makes both alike to God who is One. "Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee."(Ps.139:12) The Word was with God. This Law settled the matter. Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the Law submitted to the divine Will declares,"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,/I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart."(Ps.40:8-9) God settled for light as indicative of His holiness on the logos principle of the Man. God framed the worlds by his word so one becomes subject to the sovereignty of the Word.( John 1:1; He. 11:3). Second reason the Law was to be demonstrated in the worlds made to appear. "Judgement was set, and books were opened" Consequently would settle the matter of darkness. "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."( John 1:5). Those who chose light were recorded in the book of life . Faith accordingly became the touchstone. "Law is within my heart" is doable.
The Law intended to give both light and darkness equal weight in the heavenly places. God a Spirit makes angels spirits and the Holy Spirit records both Sons of God on the Mountain of God until sin undid the glory of one. In Ezekiel we read thus, "thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire./Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ez.28:14-15) God pronounced judgment on Satan,"therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."(28:18). This is what happens and Jesus refers to it, "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."( Luke 10:18)
I will pass it.
Red Dragon
If we analyze deeply Scriptures,we will see there is difference between how was the Devil,the old Serpent,in Adam's time,and how he is in this time of Apocalypse.The difference is great.By the way,the new name of the Devil now is red Dragon.
In the time of Adam,the Devil still hadn't 7 HEADS and 10 HORNS, much less his TAIL.It's important detail.
Re.12:3-4->3 another wonder appeared in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8);behold a great red dragon,having 7 heads and 10 horns,and 7 crowns upon his 7 heads.
4And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven("drew to the Dragon's Orbit"),and did cast them to the earth:(through the apostasy)
Satan's body started to develop or take shape in the first century of the Church.As time went on(centuries),Satan's body was growing more and more in the WORLD;in Asia,and Europe,frica,Oceania (Australia),North America,Central America and South America,his 7 heads geographically
At the same time, the spirit of antichrist grew within the Churches of the Lord,as is written in 1John 2:18-20,mainly in the Church of Rome,actually the cradle of Antichrist.From there the TAIL of the red Dragon started to growth in the environment of the 7 heads of the Dragon,i.e. in the world at that time
Around 95AD,1st century,the Beast of sea was in the embryo in the belly of the apostate Church of Rome,through Church Satan developed exceedingly his satanic body having 7 heads.John saw that in this current time of Apocalypse,the body of the Beast of sea,whose roots is described in Revelaton 13:2,was complete,having 7 heads,10 horns,and upon his 10 horns 10 crowns, and upon his 7 heads the name of blasphemy
Furthermore,Israel was banned from their land from 70 to 1948AD,i.e. during 1878 years,this terrible event prevented the manifestation of the false messiah before the current time of Revelation, the development of the 10 horns stayed in stand by until this current time.This last event will happen from now on
Get ready
I'm not sure if a continuation of this discussion will change either of our minds, so I'll leave it up to you if you want to continue!
May the Lord bless you always!
Matthew 12:23 - And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Now, the phrase "son of David" is another phrase for the Messiah, the son of David. But in the Greek text, the negative participle that is used means that the question is expecting the answer no. This is not the son of David, is it?
What they are saying is that He's doing all the things that Messiah is supposed to do when He comes, but it can't be Him!
Matthew 12:30 - He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Two things I want to share with you about the Greek. Do you see the word "is," the third word in the verse? That's actually a Present Participle, and it denotes continuous action. He that is not continually with me is against me. And he that is not continually gathering with me is scattering. So, in other words if you are not continuously gathering together and following Christ, Jesus said you are against me.
There's no gray area and no middle ground! Jesus said you are either following me or you are against me. He didn't say you have to reject me to be against me. Jesus said, if you're not following me, you are against me.
Matthew 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
He says the only sign that you're to receive is the sign of Jonah, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, and it is not a whale. The Greek word means a great fish. And they have found down through history, large fish from this area with parts of human beings inside, so it is possible. But this was a miracle. A great fish swallowed Jonah and spit him up on the shores of Nineveh.
I am going to stop here for the night. I will try and pick back up tomorrow.
Blessings to you all in Christ our Savior!
Matthew 8:26 - And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Jesus gets up and He rebukes. He says to them, why are ye fearful? The word fearful in Greek is not the word for fear. It's a word that means to be without courage. This could be better translated, "Why are you without courage, O little faith ones?"
Matthew 9:17 - Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
The word bottle is the word skins. These are not bottles that we know.
Matthew 9:32 - As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
When He went out, they brought to him a dumb man (somebody who couldn't speak). The Greek word would be translated MUTE. His condition was that he was demonized. He was mute because of the demon.
Matthew 10:16 - Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
The word "harmless" in the Greek means artless. It literally means don't use your own ingenuity. In other words, God is not impressed when we use our ideas to do His work. Be wise as serpents. How is the serpent wise? Well, he is very alert and he watches and doesn't make quick reactions. We are to observe and be artless as doves. Jesus said that's the kind of person I will use.
Matthew 12:20 - A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
These are long stemmed reeds that are hollow on the inside, and they break really easy. So, when Jesus comes upon somebody that has a very frail weak condition like one of these weeds, He's not going to break them. He is going to help them.
A smoking flax is a wick of a lamp that is smoldering, but it's not lit.
Matthew 8:16 - When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
It says when evening had come, and the other gospel writers tell us that this was the Sabbath when Peter's mother-in-law was healed. So, at six o'clock, at sundown, they brought many who were possessed with devils.
The condition: Those three words "possessed with devils," are represented by one Greek word. In fact, never in the Greek text does it say demon possession. It just says "demonized." It is just one word, demonized.
Matthew 8:17 - That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
This, you may already know. But in the King James text, and we see this in Chapter 1 with what we call the ancestry line, the lineage, in that the King James text, when it mentions names, it's a transliteration of the Greek word. For instance, in Matthew Chapter 1, it talks about Tamar. King James says Thamar and that is because that is the Greek word, Thamar. And so, when it's making reference to Isaiah, he says Esaias because that is the Greek word, but he is talking about Isaiah the prophet. Just general information!
Matthew 8:24 - And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
Here's something we may not catch in our English text:
Here are the circumstances. They got in the boat, and there arose a great "tempest" in the sea. The word tempest is the Greek word SEISMOS. It's where our English word seismic comes from. What this text is telling us is that there was a great earthquake in the sea, so much that the ship was covered with the waves. It wasn't just raining and the boat filling up.
Reading this in English, we see "great tempest" and big waves, but we don't realize that an earthquake was the cause!