All Discussion PAGE 451

When does Jesus Christ (appear)? In ( Col. 3:4) When Christ who is our life, shall (appear), then shall ye appear with him in (glory). (This verse tells us we appear with Him in (glory) when He appears). ( 1 Pet. 5:4) And when the chief Shepherd shall appear ye shall receive a crown of (glory) that fadeth not away. (We will receive a crown of (glory) when He appears) ( 2 Tim. 4:1,8) v4 Tells us He will judge the quick and the dead at His appearing. The word quick is #2198; it means to live, (a-) live. (These will be those who are alive at His return and will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the clouds) The word dead is #3498; it means (a corpse) dead. (These are the dead in Christ you will rise first in ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) Here's more on the judgment of the dead. ( Jn. 5:28-29) "all that are in the graves shall here his voice, And shall come forth" ( 1 Cor. 15:42-44) v43 "It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in ((glory)) it is sown in weakness, it is raised in ((power)). This verse tells us the dead are raised in (glory) and in (power) this will happen at the appearing of the Lord, the chief Shepherd. Now when does Jesus Christ (appear) with (power) and (glory)? In ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 Tells us when it will happen "Immediately after the tribulation". v30 Tells us "And then shall ((appear)) the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven with ((POWER)) and great ((GLORY)). This is when He judges the quick and the dead and in v29 it tells us exactly when it happens! v31 Tells us "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, ((and they shall "gather together" his elect)) Those who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds. ( 1 Cor. 15:51-52) Tells us we will all be (changed) in the twinkling of an eye. If we read ( Rev. 19:11-16) This is His return riding a white horse ((to the earth)), no (appearing) no (power) or no (glory) mentioned here. ( Mt. 24:29-31) is the rapture.

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But all that is OT prophecy. Has Israel been blotted out because of their stubbornness, & only the Church is what is on God's Mind as His new Israel? I believe that God cherishes His Church (those of Israel & the Gentiles purchased with His Son's Blood), yet yearns for His chosen ones to whom His covenants were given.

The Apostle Paul shares much on this: we read of his yearning for his people & the promise that they will come to the Lord, when "the fullness of the Gentiles be come inAnd so all Israel shall be saved" ( Romans 11:25-27). He isn't referring here to a reconstructed/renamed Israel comprising believing Jews & Gentiles; Paul sees not only the Church (saved Jew & Gentile) in his many writings but also that Israel as a nation/people will continue to exist & play a major part in the end-times. To remove Israel completely out of the end-time picture, would also remove much from the Word that speaks of them as a nation (see also Hebrews 8:8-12 & Jeremiah 31:31-34 for the New Covenant which applies to all now, & will still find it's complete fulfilment in Israel's restoration in the end times). Even Jesus proclaimed that, "Ye (Israel) shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" ( Matthew 23:39) - I wonder when that time will be? ( Zechariah 12:9,10).

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Hi Jema. Thank you for your question. I'm amongst those who believe, according to God's Word, that Israel have been, presently is, & will ever be a special people appointed & preserved by God, and to whom all the promises of the OT were made & will be fulfilled. The Church stands only on the merits of God reaching out to the world with the Gospel of His Christ, that we too might receive the opportunity & blessing that was given to Israel, but they spurned God's Love, resting on their heritage & misunderstanding of the Scriptures. All Israel, as all unbelieving Gentiles rejecting the offer of Salvation are doomed - those saved from Israel & the Gentiles now, are received as God's special possession, incorporated in His Church. Yet, Israel as a people will be kept & will go into that time of "Jacob's Trouble": Jeremiah 30:7 (the Great Tribulation), to the end that God's Purposes for them will be fulfilled & those who turn to the Lord, will reign with Him in His Kingdom. In other words, another opportunity will be given them & also to the Gentiles during that time of Great Tribulation to turn to Jesus. Surely Israel will respond to the Messiah now, won't they?

The Bible indicates there would be two re-gatherings of Israel (the first was in Jeremiah 29:10 after a 70 year captivity). The second, would be from every nation where they had been dispersed ( Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 16:14,15, Jeremiah 23:3,7,8; Jeremiah 29:14). For the last 120 years or so, more than 3.5 million Jews have returned back to their God-given land, from all points of the globe, fulfilling God's Promises ( Isaiah 43:5-7). See Page 2.

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Thanks Gigi , to you and S. Spenser , I'm still interested in other people's views on this if anyone else would like to answer . For me , I always used to believe that all Jews ALL , would be saved and in God's Kingdom . Over the years of reading I'm changing my mind I think . I'm at the stage where I believe that , all physical Jews who were waiting for their Messiah and died before Christ , are saved . Once Christ came and initiated the new covenant in his blood then he is now The Way and the only Way .Everyone who believes in Christ is now the Israel of God . I also believe , that when Christ returns to earth , that any humans still alive , whatever creed race religion they are , they will be given the opportunity to accept him as their saviour and if they do they will be saved also . I think we all need to be open minded about our beliefs , mine do occasionally change as I keep reading the Bible and this site , it's no shame to change our beliefs if we discover that we got something wrong or misinterpreted something . God works in us to bring us all closer to Him , this can take time as we humans only have limited understanding , Our Heavenly Father is limitless in wisdom , truth and thankfully patience :) .

Hello CSmith,

How would you like us to pray for Jamie Foxx?

Hello S. Spencer,

In reviewing Gal. 6_11-16, it clearly says that in Christ, whether one is circumcised or not doesn't matter, but what matters most is being a new creation. This way of speaking of re-birth, regeneration, or being made alive in Christ. It is speaking of the Church as the Israel of God, both jew and gentile, as Paul in Rom. 11 speaks of the church as gentiles being ingrafted into the olive tree of believing Israel with Jesus as the root. When we take in what Paul says in chapter Romans 11 then Gal. 6:16 makes more sense.

This is how I understand this passage, but I am sure you will disagree.

Hello S. Spencer,

I agree that for the most part, in Romans 9 Paul is speaking about ethnic Israel, who mostly rejected Jesus and he says that a remnant will be saved. The subject really is not Israel nor the Church but God's righteousness and mercy and how one receives these.

Romans 10:14 says that there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek; for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. So, Paul is speaking to gentiles believers here and chapter 9 and 11. Showing them that though they were not God's people, gentiles are now God's people ( Rom. 9:25-26) So I think that Paul was actually contrasting believers (both Jews and Gentiles) and unbelieving Jews.

Jesse, I guess I read in John 3:22 that it says he spent time with his disciples (the twelve) and baptized. S, I think this is when He baptized His disciples.

In John 4:1-2 It says that Jesus did not baptized, but the disciples. I take this to mean that He only baptized His disciples and then they baptized the others that came to be baptized.

I guess this interpretation may be reasonable because it is doubtful that He would have His disciples baptize others if He had not baptized them first.

So, maybe you can shed some light on this as far as Greek meaning.

Jesse, no problem, I am looking forward to what hyou find out.

Prayers for guidance strength wisdom understanding and a highly blessed be the GOD Through Jesus I asked desperately for GOD'S s approval #FAITHFULL

GiGi,

I do not know for certainty that Jesus actually water baptized anyone. I do know for a fact that His disciples did.

I did see your post to myself and Giannis. Please know that I am not ignoring you. I need a little more time to take a look John Chapter 3 before I can give a proper response.

Life has been busy for me the past few weeks, but I will get back with you soon.

God bless!

Gigi.

Example. Part 2.

Romans 9:1-6.

Who is Paul's Kinsman of the flesh? Is it the church? No. I'm sure most agree on that.

Paul tells us here in Romans 9:3-4.For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Some believe the distinction made here in

Romans 9:6 is Israel and the Church but scripture Identifies them for us.

Here in Romans 9:7-8 Paul is simply saying Israel don't inherit salvation by natural birth/Kinsman of the flesh,

You inherit it by the promise, which is Christ. He's making a distinction between believing Israel and non believing Israel.

The Church at large is not in the discussion here.

Paul is clearly talking about Abraham's descendants.

It gets clearer as we read

Romans 9:9-10

I'm going to leave off right here Gigi.

It's getting late here and I'm using the cellphone.

I will get back to this when I can get in front of my computer.

Again I will like to go to the OT and comb through the details of the covenants and promises.

God bless you.

PS I cannot recall where but we were given a time of return 1000 years on earth is like 1 day to God and you probably know where it says something about dawn on day 3?

1000 years here = day 1

2000 years here = day 2

30 AD ? Don't quote me it's from my memory



2030 is the end of day #2

Sorry I cannot remember where this is in the Bible but Jerren Lewis had a video on this on

AoC network which is good for younger teens

(some visuals for their understanding )

The variety of each enhance each other.

What's sad is most Christian churches don't teach this, especially Revelation. My go to is Pastor Gary Hamrick if anything is questionable for the final word. (For me)

Thanks for your comments and there's never any offense taken, the main point is we all believe Jesus Christ is our Prince of Peace and He suffered on that cross for our sins

Hi Gigi.

Part 1

This exercise is not to promote a eschatological viewpoint or to explain neither dispensationalism or covenant theology.

It's to give understanding on how one uses hermeneutics when forming eschatological views.

This exercise will give us a chance to examine our approach to scripture whether it's fundamentally, figuratively, allegorically, ect.

It's not intended to promote eschatological views, It's the approach to scripture as a whole is what's being examined.

So it's not a breakdown of whatever theological category we espouse..

Its simply does God mean what he says? Does God change his mind? And what is the word of God actually saying?

It's also paying close attention to detail on scripture and putting it in context. Especially when linked to the covenants and promises without focusing on a particular theology.

Here's an example;

Galatians 6:12-16.

verse 16 is a scripture that causes a lot of controversy.

vs16- "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on (THEM,) and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL OF GOD.

(Who's the them? The believing Gentiles! ) uncircumcised.

( PUTTING IT INTO CONTEXT )

Paul is completing his distinction he was making between the two believing groups he was talking about in the previous verse.

Vs 15) For in Christ Jesus neither CIRCUMCISION availeth any thing, nor UNCIRCUMCISION, but a new creature.

Who's the Israel of God? ( The believing Circumcised) Israelites.

Paul is saying in Christ we're all the same.

He's not calling the Church the Israel of God. Read through it from verse 12.

See example part 2.

God bless.

Without doubt, it's a misunderstanding.

He has dozens of videos and that's a class he's teaching so I think it's just a misunderstanding

Perhaps he already mentioned things in his previous 11 chapters. He specifically mentions it's a lot to get into and this is only one chapter out of 22.

I didn't post this for anyone to get the entire story in one hour

He also stated clearly about signs and wonders stars, etc.

Go to 25:00 on Trump is. "Recognizing the capital of Israel" not being in Tel Aviv and moved the embassy.

Do you know how long the Armenian Genocide had not been recognized for? That's the point

The sign of recognition

The constellation on Sept 23, 2017 is just a sign or wonder whatever you want to call it just as the North Star was ahead of the birth of Jesus .

If he were to teach it all in one chapter he would omit ch1-11 and spend 12-24 hours teaching straight.

Please don't take offense but when I comment,

My intent is to share an interesting find and assuming we all have basic common sense

(sense of humor :)

I'm not a Bible scholar but I know who teaches directly from the Bible and who does not.

Nobody knows the day or the hour of Jesus' return but we were given the signs and seasons and if the scholars got the math correct (not one I listen to will give a date) just so you y'all know that I know better!

But.

I'll take a wild guess. From previous guidance

I'm watching Israel closely ;)

Quakes

Persecution of not only Jews but Christians

Demonic entertainment on the world stage

Lawlessness (the US is a disgrace)

Rebellion? Wow is there, globally

Global GENOCIDE

I'm a descendant of a survivor of the Armenian Genocide, that jab is Genocide

(I'm also a 25 yr retired medic, DHS, Nuke inspector, and more)

I can go on and on but I'll stop with this;

I'm watching for a 3rd Temple

Good Bless everyone here and hope to see you all up there (2030-2033) maybe.? Maybe not! lol

Nstew before you can understand timelines, you must first understand there are three earth ages and three heaven ages. You also should understand what the translators of the KJV said to the 'readers.' What they said 'was reader beware. Although blessed by God to translate, we are human as you and make mistakes as any other human.' Then you can understand there are some bad translations in the KJV. But, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Our Father destroyed the first heaven and earth age because he did not want to destroyed a third of His children that followed Satan. Then the earth 'became 'to'-hoo, bo'-hoo' it was not created 'void and empty' but was created to be inhabited. Then we continue with the second verse, then with the 3rd verse of Genesis.

We know this earth is billions of years old, science agrees. And so this is the second earth and heaven age. Same old earth, same old heaven, new age.

You answered your own question Mary 1979. Man's traditions. Man's traditions make void the word of God.

Giannis,

That statement I made was not to say that Judas had the Spirit of God in Him. I know that none of the original 12 apostles had the indwelling of God's Spirit. And yes, I understand what took place at Pentecost.

Also, reading through all 3 parts of what you posted, I see you have placed a lot of emphasis on the importance of water baptism. I agree with you completely. I have stated multiple times on this forum that I believe water baptism is very important.

Also, you said that baptism of infants is not valid since they can not understand, believe, repent, etc.

Giannis, I couldn't agree with you more on that one! I did state that some church groups practice this, but I didn't say I agreed with it. I believe it is invalid like you say.

Thanks!

oops, S, Spencer,

I looked back and it was your post that brought up dispensational and covenant theology to Jema. That seemed to be the way that the conversation was going so, knowing you favor dispensational tenets as opposed to covenant, I thought I could be the one to present more on covenant theology and you could explain dispenational theology for Jema. I would like to read what you would write concerning that.

Hello S. Spencer.

do believe You are right. Not all dispensationalist think as you do. Classic Dispensationalism of Darby, Chafer, Scofield, Ryrie, and Walvoord, from what I know do have the distinction between Israel from the Church and an eternal separation of Israei from the Church as paramount and foundational tenets of their theology that must be kept in view whenever interpreting Scripture. You may not think this way. As with any theological viewpoint, there is a continuum of which people of that theology fall. Your view about Israel still having some promises for God to fulfill with them is a tenet of dispensationalism and not of covenant theology. But you may not adhere to the tenet of keeping Israel and the Church separate as Darby taught.

It was my understanding that Jema was asking for information about dispensationalism and covenant theology.

I did not mean to misrepresent you in any way. Thanks for clarifying.

As to your questions, I don't think it would be helpful for me to get in a discussion on them, not because I think we probably disagree, but because I think that there are better resources than this forum to explore such questions as an individual.

I will certainly keep them in mind and seek to answer them for myself privately.

Hi Adam.

I wouldn't say God weigh one sin against another.

I'd rather say the weight of sin/penalty is on us.

It's never permitted and repentance is seeing and agreeing with God on the incurable ungenerated heart apart from God's indwelling spirit.

With Christ spirit we won't continue in sin but yet if we say we have no sin we lie.

Sin still exists in us.

You can take a deaf blind baby and tie him up a his life until death. He's still flesh and there's no good thing in the flesh. He still has that ungenerated heart.

He will still need mercy.

Paul said in Romans 7:15-25 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

God bless.

First question. The church of Philadelphia and Smyrna taught the same. That is "Behold, I will make them of the 'synagogue of Satan,' which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;' behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." These are the Kenites (offspring of Cane) they were keeping books for Juda and first mention in 1st Chronicles 2:55. And you will fine that Christ would say the same to Smyrna: Rev. 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan." Next. There are many churches in America that are called Philadelphia. A person would have to visit them to find out what they teach. Next. No one should tell anyone where to go to church. You and our Father (God) must decide that. A pastor that teaches God's word verse by verse and chapter by chapter is a good place to start.

Hi Gigi.

You said I represents the Dispensational point of view.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that being that other dispensationalist may disagree. ( All don't have the same views.)

So you may falsely assign a view on someone by labeling and grouping.

For instance; You said "it teaches that when Israel is spoken of in Scripture it is always ethnic, national Israel. Also it teaches that the Church and the Jews are always to be kept distinct from one another forever."

What you should have said is that S Spencer believes God is not through with the nation Israel and there's unfulfilled promises to Abraham and David concerning them that will be fulfilled literally.

Now if "according you" that's dispensationalism, then according to your interpretation of it that you're right. On that basis only!

I only speak for me, You speak for covenant theology as you said but neither do the hold the same views as a whole.

To see where we differ we would have to examine the covenants.

The covenants ( to Israel ) differ from the promise (from Israel.)

Here's a exercise that I would like to present. This exercise is not to promote a eschatological viewpoint but to give understanding how one uses hermeneutics (the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.) when forming eschatological views.

This exercise is that it will give you a chance to examine your approach to scripture and again it's not intended to promote eschatological views, It's your approach to scripture as a whole.

Here's a few questions to consider. Does God mean what he says? Does God change his mind? And last but not least, what is God saying?

God bless.

Jimbob,

Thanks for sharing your view. For the second time, I am done with this particular discussion. If there's another topic we can discuss, I would be more than happy to converse with you.

Have a great evening!

Jema Thats a good question. In ( Mt. 21:23) the chief priests and elder of the people came unto him as he was teaching. So the words spoken by Jesus in ( Mt. 21:42-43) where spoken to them. v43 Tells us "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (What is the greatest Christian Nation in the world? The USA!) What many call the lost tribes of Israel are not lost they are exactly where God placed them or scattered them for the End-times. ( Jer. 50:17) Tells us (Israel) is a scattered sheep". The word (Israel) is #3478; it means he will rule (as) God; a symbolic name of Jacob, also typically ((of his posterity)). His posterity are the 12 tribes. (Israel) in the Lastdays are the tribes, the sons of Jacob or their bloodlines (which is his posterity) In ( Rev. 7:3-8) We see 12,000 from each tribe sealed, and they are called "all the tribes of the children of Israel". The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Son of God, ( Rom. 8:14-16) "For as many as are lead by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". The Jews are not being lead by the Spirit of God, then or now. Now the tribe of Ephraim got the double Blessing in ( Gen. 48:16-20) The word (nations) in v19 is #1342; it means to mount up, in general to rise (fig) be majestic, gloriously, grow up, increase, be risen, triumph. (That is the USA, in which the land received the double blessing) Now in ( Deuteronomy. 33:13-17) It shows us the blessings of the land of Joseph which was passed down to Ephraim. Which is the greatest Christian Nation in the world. The only thing today that can save one is a Belief in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The Jews do not Believe. The posterity of Israel which is the 12 tribes do Believe. Many will disagree with this, but it is what I see from the Word of God. Blessings Jema.

Thanx, It's always nice to get encouragement. Have a blessed day and stay strong in Christ Jema.!

Thank you so much GIGI!

Jesse I am sorry if I offended you. Your words Jesse "Unless you are trying to trip me up, you should know by now that I believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture of the church. So, because of my position on this, my answer to you would be that the 7-year Tribulation BEGINS ONCE THE CHURCH IS REMOVED, ( Mt. 24:21) is not the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation. ((The beginning of the 7-year Tribulation BEGINS AT ( Mt. 24:4) the mid-point is a ( Mt. 24:15) and the last 3 1/2 years (Great Tribulation) starts at ( Mt. 24:16)" You said The 7-year Tribulation begins once the church is removed, The beginning of the 7-year Tribulation begins at ( Mt. 24:4) If you believe the 7-year Tribulation (starts) with the removal of the church and you say the 7-year Tribulation begins at ( Mt. 24:4) Then that would have to be the time the church would be removed, Right? Matthew did mention the rapture of the church Jesse in ( Mt. 24:29-31) you just have that confused as being the return of Christ to the earth. He does not return to the earth then He returns to the earth in ( Rev. 19:11-16) Any place the Bible speaks of Jesus "coming in the clouds" its the rapture, or the catching away of the church. You will not see those words in the return of Jesus Christ riding a white horse because He returns to the earth to start His 1000 year reign. Jesus was answering a question about the events that would be taking place, or the sign of His coming in ( Mt. 24:3) His coming? ( 1Thess. 4:15) calls it (("the coming of the Lord")) then ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) (The #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse) v17 Believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds. This is the coming of the Lord Jesse. The question they asked Him? ( Mt. 24:3) "what shall be the sign of thy coming" Paul didn't mention the tribulation, or the wrath of God when he told of those who are "caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds" because he wasn't answering a question about Christ's return like Jesus was. I mean no offence Jesse. Blessings.

It's interesting how easy it is for us all , who are reading the exact same words , to believe that they mean something different , even when it's just a short clear command . I have always believed that to bear false witness , is to say that you saw ( witnessed ) someone do something that you didn't see , or conversely to say that you didn't see ( witness ) someone do something ,when in fact you did see them do it . For me the key word is witness , which I take to mean to see . It's no wonder we all find it so easy to disagree with each other :) . Today , as I walked into my local store , an assistant was following close behind a young man and accusing him of stealing some detergent and having it in his rucksack . The assistant was a middle aged lady . The young man was denying it as he walked out of the store and the lady wasn't able to stop him . I sidestepped them both . Plenty of times I have seen people shoplifting and I haven't stopped them . There isn't ever an assistant nearby for me to tell and I'm not prepared to risk physical injury over some toilet paper or a chicken . Once I witnessed a young lady being caught in the supermarket and I offered to pay for the things that she had stolen but the store wouldn't allow me . I always feel that if someone is resorting to shoplifting then they must be in very desperate circumstances . Maybe I'm too soft but I just feel that I can't add to a person's difficulties by helping them to be in even more trouble than they are obviously already in . Once I had to be in a very tough part of town and I saw a child ( maybe twelve years old ) selling herself on the street . I reported this to the police immediately and waited for them to come and collect her . There are some things that I can't ignore . I guess we all have to go with our own consciences .