All Discussion PAGE 454

Praying for you and your family tonight David.

p.2 Jesse You say you were perplexed by the answer I gave you? You asked me if it didn't happen like I said it would how would I explain that. I am not a prophet Jesse and never claimed to be one. I do study the Bible everyday as I'm sure many others on here do. Would you have liked my answer better, or would you have even listened to me if I told you that everything I say, or every post I ever made is all the Truth so you better believe it is the Truth? You said you thought I was trying to trip you up. We really should be very careful about that today, right Jesse? You are 100% right the Spirit cannot lie, if the Spirit is leading us we will see the Truth. We get Truth from Scripture, Right? When we see Truth from Scripture if we are being lead by the Holy Spirit we will recognize it as Truth, if we do not recognize the Truth when we see it, then we are being lead by our selves and not by the Holy Spirit. When we do see and have the Truth then we are able to back that Truth by using Scripture, if it cannot be backed using Scripture then its more of an opinion than it is the Truth. The verses in ( Mt. 24:29-31) Is Jesus Christ, the (Son of man) coming ((in the clouds)) to gather together His elect. Now you asked me "So then my only question to you would be, what if the Spirit showed me something different"? My answer to that is (If the Holy Spirit has showed you something different then you can back it up using Scripture. If it can't be backed using Scripture then its not the Holy Spirit but it is an opinion) Truth can always be backed up by using Scripture! Again I'm not trying to offend you here Jesse, but the Truth should be more important to us today than anything else. The comment you made about the 7-year tribulation starting in ( Mt. 24:4) Would mean Jesus comes for the church in either that verse or the 3 verses before that. That is not being backed using Scripture Jesse. May God show His Truth to All who seek it. God Bless you I hope I didn't offend you.

Jesse I was not trying to trip you up, I promise you that Jesse. I just don't see a pre-tribulation rapture in Scripture and it seems like it changes with different people who believe in it. It's not consistent with all pre-trib believers, that says something in itself. You say "The beginning of the 7-year Tribulation begins at ( Mt. 24:4) I'm sorry but Jesus would say something about an event that is that important, there is absolutely nothing in that verse or the 3 verses before that shows anything or says anything about a rapture. And if we look at the next verse ( Mt. 24:5) We see "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many". So do you believe that Jesus raptures the church and in the very next verse (many ((non-believers)) who were just left on the earth are going to be deceived by someone saying "I am Christ"?) Then if we look at ( Mt. 24:23-26) which is AFTER the great tribulation starts we are told AGAIN in ( Mt. 24:23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (People at this point are still looking for Christ) ( Mt. 24:26) v26 they are still looking for Christ. 2 verses later in ( Mt. 24:29-31) This is Jesus Christ coming ((in the clouds)). You are saying Jesus comes in ( Mt. 24:4) where it says nothing about Jesus returning, and yet you doubt the Words of Jesus in ( Mt. 24:29-31) where Jesus very clearly tells us He will return ((in the clouds)) to gather together His elect. And in ( 1 Thess 4:16-17) The #1 pre-trib rapture verse tells us The Lord descends from heaven and we meet Jesus ((in the clouds)). We are told in ( Ps. 12:6-7) The words of the LORD are pure words. and in ( Proverbs 30:5-6) v5 ((Every)) word of God is pure. v6 "add thou not unto his words" There is not rapture in ( Mt. 24:4) You are believing something that's not written over the pure Words of the Lord Jesse. I'm truly not trying to offend you Jesse but you should see this is Truth. see p.2

Hello Jesse

It is almost 3 in the morning here so I am off to bed. I will be back with you tomorrow. By the way here today(Sunday) is Easter. The Orthodox church doesn't celebrate Easter the same time the Catholics or some Protestants do. So happy Easter.

GBU

Hello Giannis,

From a human standpoint, the answer to your first four questions would be no. But I do believe that God can use evil people to fulfill His will, or to fulfill prophecy. Jesus chose Judas, an evil person, to fulfill prophecy. Judas didn't become evil at some point during the three years he was amongst the group. Judas was evil all along. He was a thief and a robber, stealing from the money bag during the three years. He was stealing even before he committed betrayal. Jesus chose Judas for a specific purpose. Jesus knew when He chose Judas, that he would be the one to betray Him.



As far as the word sinner goes, we are all sinners. Even a saved person is not free from sin.



My answer to question #5 would be no, it doesn't seem logical to me.

Question #6: The bible does not give an answer to that.

Question #7: The answer to that is yes. Some church groups practice infant baptism. However, it is my belief that water baptism comes after a person is born-again. Water baptism is an outward testimony of what has taken place (Salvation) in a believer's life.

I see nothing that would indicate to me that Judas was born-again. Some believe that because he was part of the 12, that he was saved (born again), and then at the end he lost his salvation. But if we're talking about logic, how would it be logical for God to place His Spirit in someone, and then turn around and remove His Spirit from them so Satan can enter in, as in the case of Judas?

Blessings to you also!

Pt 3.

Gigi

About grace, we must know that there is always a requirement/condition to receive it. It is called repentance. If God were to give His grace having no requirement at all then all people would have been saved. But repentance is needed. Disobedience in His commandments is a sin. Unrepented dissobedience is a sin that stays

In the last supper Jesus washed His disciples feet. We know initially Peter denied. Jesus told him, John 13:8, "Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me."

If we don't obey God we have no part with Him in Heaven. As simple as that. Christians try to make whole philoshophies out of the Gospel. They take something simple and make a complicated thing out of it and confuse people That is why I insist on simplictity. The Gospel wasn't written for scholars, theologists, scientists but for ordinary everyday people like us. For people with no scientific knowlegge like the ancient people but also for todays's educated people. For all.

I hope I haven't confused you.

About Israel. In Rom 11 Paul talks to the gentiles and tells them, V 18, "Boast not (gentiles) against the branches(Israel). But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." The gentiles to not boast against the Hebrews. nd he says next, V25-27, "25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins"

So it is obvious that he talks about the nation Israel. Now what does ALL Israel mean? Every single one of them? As you said the gospel doesn't teach a universal salvation. So I guess some will not believe. How many? ...?

GBu

Pt 2

GiGi

He often uses rewards or punihments to wake us up, like we do to our children, because He loves us, we are His children and He wants to take us with Him in Heaven. He also respects our freedom to have our own decisions about how we like to live. In the parable of the prodigal son the Father didn't try to hinder His Kid from leaving and also He didn't go after him, He just waited patienlty for his return back home. But at the same time God is a righteous God which means that it is in His nature to condemn sinners if they never repent in this life. He gives all people the oppurtunity to be saved in this life so there is no excuse.

If one strays away and never comes back nor repent and dies in their sin, then the next moment their name is erased from the Book of Life and condemnation awaits for them.

This is what Rev 3:5 says, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

When one finishes his course victoriously then they will be clothed in white garments(salvation). If not their name will be erased from the Book of Life.

So we actually have a whole lifetime(as long as this is for each one of us) to get things straight in our life. God waits patiently, never condemns, always helps to get ourselves up when we fall down. So there is no reason actually to worry about our salvation, we are given infinite opportunities in our life. But we have not signed a contract with God about the date of our departure from this life so we must always be in a situation of repentance. Remember the 5 wise and 5 unwise virgins. So lets have joy in our lives, we are saved. But also fear about our deceitful heart. Not let satan enter your heart, and if he gets in push him out quickly because as long as he stays in, he is continually destroyig, until he devours us through unrepented sin. I tried to make it as simple as possible.

Pt 1

Hello GiGi

The truth is I don't have answers to everything but I say what I have been tought that it seems to me it is right, also what I understand when reading the Bible. I am also searching to see what others believe that maybe right. I may be wrong, but for the time being I am not persuaded I am. I am talking about the OSAS belief.

The "once saved, always saved" belief I think innitiated as an innocent effort of some to have an assurance of their salvation and not being in a continuous fear about loosing it. But it lacks in the fact that people have free will and may turn their back to God. So they inserted the idea of "not truly saved". This sums up to, "salvation can not be lost, so all those people who stray are not truly saved, they have never really believed, they were never born again"

Another theory that tries to compromise a secured salvation with people's free will is the theory of predestination. Here the idea of predestination is inserted. This sums up to "Yes people have free will but God selects only those who knows they will never leave Him, hence once one is selected they will never loose their salvation"

I want to believe both beliefs were built on an innocent background, I wouldn't call them herecies, just different beliefs. Anyway they don't influence our salvation unless they give people the belief that they have a permission to be sinners and still never loose their salvation. In such a case a huge problem is created.

I think both beliefs can not understand how salvation can be lost. It is not a continuous series of saved-loose salvation, saved loose salvation condition in one's life. Once one is saved their name are written in the Book of Life and they stay there till their death. God is a longsuffering God, he awaits for us for our whole life to come back to Him if we have strayed away.

Hi Jimbob,

No need for apology. It is an open forum, and even though I specifically directed the question to a single individual and was specifically looking for that individual's response, you, along with all others are free to be the first to respond. First, let me say thank you for sharing this. Yes, as you said, "it may be helpful in someone's understanding on this topic."

Something else that might be helpful in other's understanding of this topic is that the "book of the living" and the "Lamb's book of life" are not the same. If I'm not mistaken, the phrase "book of the living" is only found one time in the Old Testament, and it refers to everyone who has been physically born into this world. The book of the living has listed in it everybody that has received human life. This is something the Jews would have understood. It was custom in those days to record the names of everyone who was physically born into this world into a ledger (Book). The Jews would have understood the phrase "book of the living" to be such. Just like today, everyone physically born into this world has their names recorded in a register, or book of live birth.



The Lamb's book of life is not the same as the book of the living. The Lamb's book of life contains the names of everyone who belongs to Christ, those who have received Him and have eternal life. When a person receives Jesus Christ, their name is recorded into the Lamb's book of life. And according to scripture, no one who has been saved will ever be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Nothing in scripture tells us that Judas' name was ever recorded in the Lamb's book of life.

Blessings!

(Part 2):

Jimbob,

If the Spirit indeed showed you these things, then it must be true because the Spirit cannot lie. The reason I am perplexed by this is that you go on to say "If that does not happen then I will say I misinterpreted Scripture. But if the Spirit truly showed you these things, how could there be an "if" that does not happen. If the Spirit showed you, then it must happen as you say, right?

So, then my only question to you would be, what if the Spirit showed me something different?

Again, thank you for answering my questions. May you continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Jimbob,

Yes, studying the word of God is always a good thing. I do agree with you on that. I would be happy to answer your "one more" question. Your question to me is "Does this 7-year Tribulation period you speak of start in ( Mt. 24:21)?

Unless you are trying to trip me up, you should know by now that I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. So, because of my position on this, my answer to you would be that the 7-year Tribulation begins once the church is removed. Matthew 24:21 is not the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation. The beginning of the 7-year tribulation begins at Matthew 24:4, the mid-point is at Matthew 24:15, and the last 3-1/2 years (Great Tribulation) starts at Matthew 24:16.

In previous discussions, we've already went over Matthew 24:22, and who the "elect" is referring to where it says "but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened," so I will stand by my belief on that.

You mention Matthew 24:7, "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." And you ask me if this sounds like today? I would say yes, it does sound like today. However, these things have been going on for much longer that 7-years, so how does that fit into your belief that we are living in the Tribulation time frame?

Jimbob, I do thank you for answering my questions. But your answer to my question "If Christ does not come back within this time frame, how will you explain that"? has me a little perplexed. You responded by saying "I'm not setting any dates Jesse, But I am showing what the Spirit has showed me in the Scriptures. If that does not happen then I will say I misinterpreted Scripture, but I honestly do think we are living that time period now."

I need to send a part 2. It will be short, I promise!

Correction. Sinner as 1) a person who was not saved and sinner as 2) somebody who was saved but now lives a sinful life.

When I say sinner I mean not saved. But it could also include a sinner who never believed.

Hello Jesse

Sorry I didn't answer your post yesterday but it was too late at night here and I went to bed.

I see you have removed your post but I will still answer you.

You asked if I can provide you with a scripture that shows that Judas was born again.

My answer is no, I can not provide you with such a scriprure.

But I also want to ask you a some questions.

!. Is it logical that God selects a sinner for a ministry, especially that of an apostle of the inner circle of Jesus?

2. Is it logical that God sents a sinner to preach salvation to people?

3. Is it logical that God selects a sinner and gives him power to heal and perform miracles?

4. Is it logical that God gives power to a sinner to cast out demons?

5. Is it logical that God sents a sinner to baptize in water people?

6. Can somebody who is not water baptized, baptize others?

7. Can somebody be water baptized if he is not born again first?

GBU

Reading the Bible is a life long endeavour . You are listening to God when you read His Word . There is no greater privilege and there is enough in there to keep you busy for the rest of your life . Praying to your God is you talking to Him . He already knows everything about you , inside and out , so when you pray to Him you are not telling Him anything that He doesn't already know . When you pray to God you are helping yourself , it's the greatest therapy possible . Confessing to your eternal creator . It's very liberating and so good for your spiritual development and strengthens your relationship with your Heavenly Father . Never forget to thank Him for every good thing in your life . It's very important for a Christian to know what God requires of them , this means you . The more you read the Bible , especially the Gospels but the Old Testament also , the more you will learn and understand who you are supposed to be . You are supposed to be as much like Christ as possible . This means , kind ,gentle ,soft hearted ,generous ,patient and not ever aggressive or vengeful . You don't have to take my word for this . Learn from the Bible , learn who God is and who Jesus is and , the Bible is where you will learn who you are supposed to be . It won't happen overnight and you won't ever be perfect in this life , you just have to keep trying for the rest of your life .

You wasted nothing , it was all done in God's good time . He has brought you to Himself in the perfect way , the way He knew was best for you . He taught you many things in the last 50 years . I totally agree , other people can talk about God and tell you all about Him but , for me , when you read His Word for yourself that connection is established , in your heart and soul and you really start to feel that He holds you in His hand . There's no better feeling and no better place to be . He has you in His grasp now , keep reading your Bible , never stop , keep that connection .

Dear CS, I am so sorry this is happening to you! You might be eligible for government assistance. Many churches have food banks for the hungry. You might also try the Salvation Army, and your city may have a coop that offers groceries once every so often and bread, bakery goods, etc. every week.

God bless you!

Please remember me and my family today

To anyone who knows or has insight for me,

If a man were to curse and judge me without accordance with the Lord's will, could God release me from this worldly thing and free me from the bonds of a false spiritual matter? Because ultimately, in a spiritual sense, I shouldn't be bound by the law of men and demons, right? I know it's an odd topic, and no one wants to divulge information about dark things, but I believe it is essential because this is metaphysical, and that is where our soul stands. So do I pray because I have prayed about it, and is praying for God's vengeance an excellent way to go?

I've only begun to understand God and what Jesus is about, but I am unsure where to start. How can I glorify God in what I do besides praying and reading the bible? I understand this much, but is there anything more that I can put in daily? That way, I feel sure that I am doing the right thing. Another thing... what helps faith strengthen and envelope better? Do I pray for a healthier mindset and hope it works? It's all so confusing, but interesting to know more about that.

**Pray for**

**The Latter Day RAINS** (Zachariah 10:1) to come & wash our minds from what we think & our hearts from what we desire, that The MESSIAH may bless our minds to dwell on what The HE thinks & fill our hearts with what

*HE desires* to be done. For the good works of men are filthy rags & *The MESSIAH's Works* *endure For-Ever* & never a lack to their IN-crease. Who do you want to work for?

Pray for

*The POWER* of

The MESSIAH in

*The might of HIS strength* (Ephesians6:10 -17). And all 6 qualities mentioned of HIS great ARMOR. If we seek them out with all our heart&put on the 1st- 6 gifts, is it not his will to show us the *7th greater gift.

Pray without ceasing(meaning morning&evening) that we may

*be filled* with

*the full knowledge* of

*HIS will* for us in

*all wisdom* &

*spiritual understanding* (Colossians1:9).

Pray like the mighty & receive like the mighty, HE is not a respecter of mankind what HE has done for one, HE will do for another !!

That we may go forth girded up in HIS Truth, in HIS Power uncovering the great deceit in the last days & expose it with HIS Truth, silencing the scoffers in love & leading many to HIS magnificent Truth.

Pray for YAHSHUA to send HIS Word that The SPIRIT of YAHWEH may bring IT to our remembrance, teaching us how our prayers may come in before HIM w/the fibrant prayer(the knocking) of the righteous(is it not written,James&Paul knew). That HE may open HE's gates w/Thanksgiving & enter into HIS courts w/praise, that HE may hear our prayers as sweet incense & act upon them(king David & John the Revelator knew). Because we pray according to The SPIRIT of Truth bringing to our remembrance The LivingWORD of The Magnificent SON, The MOUTHPIECE of The FATHER YAHWEH unto all the creation !!

Let us pray to be among them, that ar jump higher &shouting louder, great thanksgiving & praise, crying out look what YAHSHUA can do with a lowly one like me!

Hello Jesse. You didn't ask me the question but I saw this in Scripture and thought I would share it with you if you don't mind. It may be helpful in someone's understanding on this topic. In ( Acts. 1:16-20) These verses are clearly speaking of Judas Iscariot and in ( Acts. 1:20) We are told "For it is written in the book of Psalms. ((Let his habitation be desolate))". Where is this written? It's written in ( Psalms 69:25-28) Now we look at ( Ps. 69:25) It says "Let their habitation be desolate" ( Ps. 69:28) Says "Let them be (blotted) out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. The word (blotted) is #4229; it means to erase, abolish, blot out, destroy, utterly, wipe, (away, out). I think this means his name was written in the book of the living at one point. The reason these verses say the words (their) and (them) could be because its speaking not only of Judas Iscariot but also of the other (son of perdition) Judas was the first son of perdition in ( Jn. 17:12) The second (son of perdition) is in ( 2 Thess 2:3-4) This son of perdition is the antichrist who will be revealed in the Lastdays. The first (son of perdition) Judas was possessed by Satan in ( Luke 22:3) and ( Jn 13:27) Then we have (Eccle. 1:9) Which says "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be" The first son of perdition was possessed by Satan so the second (son of perdition) in ( 2 Thess 2:3-4) will also be possessed by Satan, there is no new thing under the sun. Any thoughts on this Jesse? I'm apologize if I am intruding. God Bless.

In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth! If you can't believe the first sentence of the Bible, you can't believe the rest of the Bible. Either the whole Bible is true, or none of it is true. Genesis 1:1 is the foundation of the Bible.

The foundation of man and creatures' existence is in Genesis chapters one and two. We are not called to be cafeteria Christians where we can pick and choose what we want to believe is true.

do god need faith for anything

P.2 Jesse I really didn't start believing, or seeing that we were living this time period until maybe a year or so ago, maybe a little longer than that. (3rd) question "If we are living in the "beginning of sorrows" right now, would you say that Christ is coming back within the next 7-years"? Jesse I believe the great tribulation is the last 3 1/2 year period and in ( Mt. 24:22) Jesus promised to shorten it for the elect's sake. If this is the true interpretation of the Scriptures, then we don't have but a few years left at the most. (4th) question "If Christ does not come back within this time frame, how will you explain that"? I'm not setting any dates Jesse, But I am showing what the Spirit has showed me in the Scriptures. If that does not happen then I will say I misinterpreted Scripture, but I honestly do think we are living that time period now. If the wrath of God comes AFTER the great tribulation like I have said it will, does that change anything in how you would interpret the Lastdays prophecy Jesse? Now back to great tribulation. If what you call the 7-year tribulation period starts at ( Mt. 24:21) then it cannot be a 7-year period because its shortened for the elect's sake in ( Mt. 24:22) I have always been of the understanding that the great tribulation is the last 3 1/2 year time period but will be shortened. (Believers will not have a part in the wrath of God) I think our days are only going to get worse and worse the closer we get to the return of Christ. Is time going by faster for you now Jesse? Everybody I know, (and that includes me) says time is going by faster and faster everyday. The closer we get to the end the faster time will go. Only one thing can control that fact and that's Almighty God. If the wrath of God and the great tribulation period are different like I say they are, and we are in the "beginning of sorrows" now? If there is no pre-tribulation rapture would that not put us closer to the return of Christ in your mind Jesse? Blessings.

Jesse I really do appreciate you answering the questions. We do disagree on many things Jesse but with disagreement comes study in the Word of God,That is always a good thing, Right? You said "I believe that the wrath of God is poured out during the last 3 1/2 years of the 7-year Tribulation" I have to ask you one more question Jesse. Does this 7-year Tribulation period you speak of start in ( Mt. 24:21)? The next verse tells us it will be shortened ( Mt. 24:22) for the elect's sake. (1st) question You asked "Do you believe that the "beginning of sorrows" and "birth pains" are both referring to the first 3 1/2 years of the 7-year Tribulation"? Yes I believe they are both the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period. The word (sorrows) is #5604; it means a pang or throe, especially of childbirth,, pain, sorrow, travail. (2nd) question "If you believe the beginning of sorrows is the first 3 1/2 years, how far into this time frame do you believe we are in, or when did you first start believing we are in this time period"? I'm not sure how far we are into it but in ( Mt. 24:3-8) v3 the question of what will be happening before the return of Christ. v4 Let no man deceive you (There's deception in almost everything today Jesse) v5 Many will come in the name of Christ and deceive many, (Much deception will be in the Christian churches) v6 Wars and rumours of wars, ( Mt. 24:6) also tells us "be not (troubled) for all these things (must come to pass, but the end is not yet") The word (troubled) is #2360; it means to wail, to clamor, by implying to frighten, trouble. (These times will be troubling and frightening for people, sounds like now, the end is not yet but its close!) ( Mt. 24:7) "Nation shall rise against nation" The word (nation) is #1484; it means a race, a tribe, specially a foreign (non-Jewish) one, usually by implying pagan, Gentile, heathen, nation, people. (This is telling us race will rise against race, sounds like today, Right?) Then ( Mt. 24:8) see p.2

Dear all-believers, chosen ladies of the Lord Jesus Christ.

When we build a church.

Our adversaries are building a synagogue.

Our friends are often the ones the ppl who resists the most. When an authority that is according to the words of the Bible inserted to govern one country. Will there be resistance to all that is just.

Even in a court, unfair judgments can happen. Whor, then, is he who judges righteously.

We know where to find God in Jesus name. Amen

Hope you guys understand what I mean.

John 2:23-25

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, MANY BELIEVED IN HIS NAME, ( when they saw the miracles which he did.)

BUT JESUS DID NOT COMMIT HIMSELF UNTO THEM, because he knew all men,

And needed not that any should testify of man: FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN.

( MANY BELIEVED IN HIS NAME,)

( BUT JESUS DID NOT COMMIT HIMSELF UNTO THEM.)

( FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN.)

This group that believed on his name, Could we call these his sheep?

John 6:64-66.

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

( From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.)

"Were these his sheep"?

I believe we all agree these in Matthew 7:23 are not his sheep.

How about this group?

Are they his sheep?

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19.

They're all sheep!

Turning back and getting lost is their nature!

It's what sheep do!

But Christ is the great shepherd and he has his own sheep!

What is the role of the shepherd?

What is the capability of the great shepherd?

Answer; John 10:27-28. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

Do you see the contrast between

Jojn 10:27 and John 2:25,

1 John 2:19. Mathew 7:23 and

John 6:64-66 ?

Answer; John 10:28-29

John 2:23-25

now when he was in jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, ( when they saw the miracles which he did.)

but jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

Giannis

Final post,

..with Jesus being the root, true ethnic and spiritual Israel, can be ingrafted again when they come to faith in Christ. Faith in God through Christ is and always has been the only means of salvation for anyone from Adam to the very last person to come into His kingdom.

You are right that as parents, we are to persevere diligently in prayer AND NOT lose faith in God answering our prayers for our prodigal children. We can cultivate a relationship of love and also of concern for them spiritually as well as physically. We should not shy away from sharing our faith before them, not by being preachy or demanding, but speaking the truth in love and being ready and prepared to give a correct answer to them when they as about the hope in Christ who lives in us for real.