All Discussion PAGE 467

I had to look up how it's used in the bible George, I think the best description is in Hebrews 3. "The provocation", talking about the Jews in the wilderness with Moses, and how they continued to sin, hardened their hearts, still expecting to see the promise. They were, in my words, pushing it, and they pushed it too far. They provoked God one too many times. That is a great question, I don't think I've ever paid attention to that in Hebrews. God bless

Hello Pierre-Alex.

We are made clean by the sacrifice of Jesus. His blood shed on the cross and His life given for us is what cleanses us of all unrighteousness. The announcement of the gospel is the vehicle ordained by God for people to come to know this and to bring faith to the hearer. The thief on the cross saw Jesus being crucified. He recognized that He was not only innocent, but also Who He claimed to be: the Messiah, the Redeemer, and King.

This knowledge caused Him to turn to Jesus and ask in faith for Jesus to remember Him when He enters His kingdom. And Jesus told him plainly that His kingdom was NOW for the thief, not some kingdom far into the future, but in the present.. Because Jesus said that the thief would be with Him TODAY indicates that death will not separate the their from Jesus nor keep him OUT of the kingdom of Jesus the Messiah, but he will possess it through Jesus because his soul will be with Jesus, the Righteous One after death.

Jesus' Kingdom is a spiritual, heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one, because it is a perfect kingdom. This earth is imperfect and corrupted, so His kingdom will not be on this earth. It will be in the new heavens and the new earth that will be without sin, corruption, evil, the devil and his angels, the unbelievers, and death! This is the kingdom we inherit NOW and at the same time NOT YET, because He is within us now through the Holy Spirit, we will be with Him without our bodies when we die, and we will receive the kingdom in its fulness when we are resurrected.

Jesus is the fulfillment of all things the Bible speaks of in the OT and NT. He is what history is all about. He is the terminus of all things, since all things point to Him and eventually will meet completion in Him. He is the purpose of creation, all things were created by and for Him. And in His return after He has defeated all that opposes Him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, when all enemies are defeated and "under His feet" ...continued.

Blessings back at ya Jimbob!

Jerman:

In the first part of Genesis the creation is a prophecy of the new heaven and new earth in Revelation.

Adam was put in a deep sleep; the word uses sleep as death, so Adam DIED and God took a rib; a bone, from Adam and made a WOMAN, the same woman in Revelation 12, we became the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created (by the resurrection and NEW CREATION) he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME ADAM (we are baptised in his name), in the day they were created.

The resurrection made all things NEW; the new heaven and the new earth, ONE BODY arose, ONE SPIRIT gave that BODY LIFE we are all that NEW BODY and LIVE by that ONE SPIRIT.

John 17:21 That they (the NEW creation) may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (the NEW creation) may be ONE, as we are ONE.

All this was done before the foundations of the world.

You can't put a time line; God is eternal, no beginning and no end, the WORD always was; you ALWAYS were, you just had no KNOWLEDGE, of your being ONE with the WORD, OUR time in the flesh is to bring us to TRUTH, we are ONE with our GOD.

He is the LIGHT; the SUN, were are the MOON, that reflects that LIGHT.

Look at Genesis with the mind of Christ; remember GOD'S WORD, seeing they SEE NOT.

You can't use eyes of flesh.

God bless you.

Yes, we can remember what happened at this Passover supper. Jesus and the disciples were gathered and Jesus announced what the New Covenant was all about. HIM. The Old Covenant was superseded by this New Covenant, the Covenant of the Messiah and His way of bringing us to the into right relationship with the Father through His own blood, not the blood of bulls, rams, or goats, which can never atone for sins and allow us to approach the throne of grace boldly without ceremony and OT rites.

It not only is a better covenant, but the perfect covenant, the everlasting covenant that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit agreed to before the creation of the world. All of the OT rites were a shadow and type that represent the reality of Jesus and His work to save us.

How precious is His blood! How valuable is His sacrifice! How amazing is His victory over death and sin and the devil at the cross! How powerful and effective is His resurrection. It ensures that we who believe on Him will be resurrected to live eternally with God when Jesus returns once more.

Hiya ...Childoftheking very good question....But remember Jesus said ye are made clean by the WORD i have spoken unto you... John 13:10 kjv....Thus i think that the 2 thieves were made clean by that conversation that Jesus had with them....As Jesus was the living word made flesh and Blood.... John 1 And the word was God...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God...( Jesus's words )..Today if you will hear his voice harden not your hearts...Water baptism was the O.C....But under this N.C. @ Calvary...It was @ Calvary that he said it is finished...We can be bornagain by just hearing his voice...ok

TammyC You are right Tammy. Also If we look at ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and compare it with ( Mt. 24:29-31) we're told by pre-trib believers these two events are not the same, yet they have several things in common. (1) The Lord descends from heaven. (2) A sound of a trump, or trumpet. (3) He comes In the clouds. (4) There is a gathering together. The number 1 pre-tribulation rapture verse parallels perfectly with the verses in Mt. 24:29-31 that say "Immediately after the tribulation" the (Son of man) (comes in the clouds) with a great (sound of a trumpet) to (gather together) His elect. Many if not all pre-tribulation rapture believers will say that ( Mt. 24:29-31) is the same event as the return of Jesus riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16), but if we read them and do a little studying on these verses we see that there is no way these are the same events. But ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and ( Mt. 24:29-31) are the same events. (context matters) Truth matters. Thank you, Tammy. Blessings.

what does provocation mean?

G.M. Dear friends...Gbu...Lemme just ramble a bit about the Sower and his seeds which is gonna multiply Christ in humanity as the field is the world...B/C of his precious seed we will all birth a baby Christ...The manchild that is gona rule all nations...The woman and her Child is the direct result of the sower and his seed...Her Child is really the Children of Promise our new hearts and new spirits....But satan is gona sow a Tare in with the wheat the manchild the H.G. and this is gonna make us 2 ppl...Paul had become 2 ppl b/c of the wheat and the Tares...Thats y he was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...Oh wretched man that i am..With my mind I SERVE the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin( the Tare His thorn in the flesh)...The 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been bornagain of that incorruptible seed, but here comes satan and sows a Tare is us making us 2 ppl...Same with the 2 women grinding at the mill is just 1 woman that has been bornagain of that incorruptible seed...But Satan has sown a tare in her making her 2 woman...Its Kingdom against Kingdom....The Tare is satans seed that wants to war against the wheat the H.G. that Child of Promise...The Tares are gona be taken and burnt but the wheat to his barn the Kingdom.

Rev.12:5 Satan the dragon is waring against the woman and her Child the H.G. the Kingdom...The dragon is satan the Tares...Thus the great tribulation...As Paul is saying Oh Wretched man that i am he was going thru the tribulation...We can cannot get into the Kingdom of God without much tribulation... Acts 14 :22

Rev 22:11.is the Tares and the Wheat....He that is always filthy, always evil is satan and his Tares....And he has to remain in that position...They are locked in a warfare position.

And he that is Holy let him remain Holy...And he that is righteous let him remain righteous thats the wheat the H.G....This war is raging within us...1 is taken and 1 is left...Violence/war in Heaven..we must endure to end..

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need. Lord Jesus please fight for us.

Dear ChildoftheKing, I wouldn't pray to Satan were I you. The Bible teaches us to use the Sword of the Spirit--the WORD of God--to resist him and make him flee from you. You don't need to tell him anything else--nor did Jesus when he was being tempted by that old dragon in the wilderness: Jesus used Scripture and nothing but Scripture to stop the devil in his tempting.

God bless!

People's reactions to events are rare in the Bible . When reading the four Gospels I've always thought that the reason they differ sometimes is because they are written by four different people . Each person writes what they saw and heard or they may also include in their account , information from someone else who they trust totally . For instance , in Luke we read a lot about how and where Jesus was born , some very intimate details . Where did Luke get this information ? I believe it was from Mary , who Luke could rely on as a faithful witness . It also seems that all four of the Gospel writers weren't always with Jesus so some saw things that others didn't so they don't include the things that they didn't see . It seems as if the most important things that they wanted to get right were the actual facts . Can you imagine how horrible and distressing the crucifixion would have been ? Yet we don't get any horrible details or emotional reactions . Maybe also the writers assumed that the reader would know what a crucifixion looked like and how distressing it would be so they don't feel the need to elaborate . Over my years of reading the Bible I have learned to read and re read everything slowly and carefully , often the details are actually there but not always obvious . It pays to take our time and read every day for the rest of our lives .

Amen, Brother Ronald Whittemore:

WE are saved yet by FIRE ---- 1 Corinthians 3:13

Our God is a consuming FIRE ---- Hebrews 12:29

God is the WORD --- the word is GOD ---- John 1:1

I will baptise YOU with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE

You are BORN AGAIN by the WORD of GOD

Every time we read and study the WORD we are being judged and baptised with the FIRE OF THE LORD

FIRE is the judgement of GOD

Psalms 37:28 For the Lord loveth JUDGEMENT ....

2 Corinthians 5:10 .... we all must appear before he judgement seat .....

1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE of the LORD

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ --- the WORD --- the SEED ---- the FIRE ---who is a son over his OWN HOUSE, whose House we are ...

The WORD of GOD is the FIRE OF GOD

And they were CAST ALIVE into the lake of fire --- the JUDGING WORD'S of GOD ----

You are save and born again by FIRE and WATER --- the living fire and the living water ---- the LAKE of FIRE ----

God bless you.

That's an awesome idea ! I wish I had your patience . I've always wanted to do a time line of the Old Testament , especially between Adam and Noah . My guess is that it would be quite easy to do on a computer , for someone who knows what they are doing . Sadly that someone isn't me :( . Maybe you could do it and then ask the admin on this site if they could make it part of this site so we could all see it . That would be aaaaawesome !

When we read the account in the book of John Ch 13 verses 18-30 , it's a much fuller account . I think it's so touching that the other disciples doubted themselves so much and we're afraid that they were the one that Jesus was talking about . It seems that Jesus's reply to John was only heard by John and then Jesus spoke to Judas and Judas left . Verse 29 tells us that they didn't know where Judas was going . It's worth while to contemplate that it's possible that there were plenty of others at the last supper , not just the twelve apostles , so the room might have been quite noisy . Wether that's true or not , it seems clear from John Ch 13 who heard what , and who didn't hear .

I'm with you on this Mary1979 , Deuteronomy Ch 18 , verses 10-14 and Galatians Ch 4 verse 10 .

I just wanted to wish everyone a Happy Passover, as Christ became our Passover, remembering the last supper:

Mark 14:22 - And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

Matthew Chapter 26:27 - And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Thank you Jesus

So, Chris, when the bible speaks of an event in two different books, that both happen in the end times, both called the harvest, both have angels reaping souls/people, both reaping two different times, this is not the same event? Because it's not worded exactly the same?

The Bible also gives a different wording on how to be saved. Sometimes it says by grace you are saved through faith. Sometimes it says, those who call upon the Lord will be saved, Sometimes it says to confess with your mouth and believe with your heart and you'll be saved. It's all the same thing, worded differently.

You're comment that the two events, in Matthew and Revelation, aren't the same events because they are worded differently....doesn't make sense to me. How many times in the bible is the rapture worded differently? Every single time. Matthew and Luke tell the story of Jesus' birth differently, since Luke doesn't mention the wise men, is Luke's account a different birth? Nope

I'm sorry to say, Chris, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. God Bless

please remember me and my family in your prayers today , please remember the victims of yesterdays tornado in Bollinger county

Hi Trinityrose12 , I have always thought that the reason they were told not to eat of the Passover lamb on the third day was for two reasons , one is that they didn't have any way of keeping it cool and safe to eat , the second is that Christ was ressurected on the third day . The three day rule with any kind of cooked meat is still observed by many for practical reasons , even with a refrigerator my grandma wouldn't eat three day old meat . She lived with not her 90's so maybe she was doing the right thing :) .

I have seen this connection made between Matthew 13:24-30 & Revelation 14:14-20 before, Tammy, but as you study those passages, you may notice some clear differences. To give them much detail here would take too long, so I'll highlight them, to show that these are not the same events.

Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.

Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).

The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.

I had a Vision after Reading, Daniel, The Vision in my house is of a Myrtle and a Fig Tree. Both in Time and Season. One is Bloomed and full of Light and a color Pink. in My kitchen at the Sink Has Light and a Glow

The Fig Tree is Dining as it Dinning room area , as it appeared to me. It is Dark and its going from Walnut to a Oak Fig Tree in the Dark. with leafy green dark clover in my dining area. Is Darkly has a different night glow.

Is my Vision.

A Strange Darkly thing big like a Angel is coming into these gardens of Tress. It is a Big Dark Being with Light. and color.

Is the other part of this VIsion.

Dearemi,

Happy to pray for Jonathan.

Heavenly Father, we ask that you will help Jonathan at this hour and clear up this dizziness and any problems associated with it.

Care for Jonathan at this time and keep him safe and well. We ask this in the name of Your Son, Jesus. Amen.

Send prayers for brother Jonathan, he is feeling dizzy / lightheaded right now. Thank you.

One thing that has helped me so much in understanding a verse or passage is to identify it's place on the biblical time line. The bible is a historical account of God's plan from first to last. For example Acts 2:23 tells us Jesus was delivered by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God to be delivered to wicked hands and crucified. In other words, it was done on purpose at the time decided by in advance by a heavenly council and God. Daniel was told the very day Jesus would ride into Jerusalem.

What I have done to help me avoid getting mixing up is to draw a simple time line with my pencil so I know what is going on at the place I am reading. My time line begins on the left with creation ( Gen 1:1) and ends on the right with the creation of the new heaven in Revelation. Abraham was called about 2000 BC, ( Gen 12) then Moses let the children of Jacob (Abraham's descendants) out of Egypt around 1400 BC and and after that the first book in the bible was written at at Mt. Sinai to whom? written by whom? why? ( 2 Tim 3:16). Was every group of people who learned of that verse act act the same way? Why or why not? Have fun.

Trinity,

You can read in Matthew 26:27 the other disciples asked, :Lord, is it I? Same for Mark 14:19, Luke 22:23. John 13:21-27 gives the most information about the response of the other disciples. But the question of who it might be was quickly shown to be Judas (verse 27).

Hello, Mary1979,

You can read my response to Tammy for another perspective on Lent. It is not taught in Scripture, but, like many things we do, such as read our Bible, it is not prohibited. In Jesus' time, the Old Testament was read in the synagogues as families did not have the Old Testament in a book in their homes. The letters (epistles) of the apostles were read at their weekly gatherings, but families did not have copies of them in their homes. But even so, it is a good thing to read and study the Bible. Sometimes we have prayer vigils as a church family or among a group of believers. This is not taught in Scripture, but it is a good thing to do.

There can be many things we do for our spiritual growth or to help others in their walk with God that are not taught in Scripture, but it is not wrong to do these things. Likewise, it is not wrong to observe Lent if one understands the purpose and benefit of doing so.

I think we should be careful to not be quick to judge what others do in their walk and worship just because we do not do the same things.

Hello Tammy C.

Catholics are not the only sect that observes lent. Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutherans do. There may be others that I am not aware of.

Lent can be observed as a matter of practice or it can present the opportunity to fast and pray for some believers. I do not think this is a Phariseeical thing to do. God looks on the heart, so we should not sit in judgment of this practice by some of our brothers and sisters. Taking time to deliberately and reverently fast and pray for a period of time is not prohibited by Scripture. In fact, Jesus told His disciples that some evil spirits will not come out of a person except with fasting and prayer.

Lent is not the only time to fast and pray, but for some who have not done so before, it presents an opportunity to begin this Bible based spiritual discipline and then continue to use this discipline at other times as the Spirit leads a person to do so.

This being said, there is no Biblical mandate to observe Lent, but it is not prohibited either.

Mary1979, I grew up Catholic and we never did lent (we weren't very good Catholics) LOL But as a "Protestant" Christian, I've seen many brothers and sisters in Christ participate in lent, by not eating chocolate, or giving up soda, or not eating junk food. My thoughts on that, it reminds me of this verse: Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."

I don't think abstaining from chocolate is going to bring anyone closer to God. Matthew 15:11

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Just my thoughts. Great question, by the way. God bless!

You have some great questions Trinityrose12, I've wondered this one myself.