All Discussion PAGE 469

I've come to realize Jema, that when we are truly given over to the Lord & always ready "to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear", the Lord's Spirit will create the opportunity & give you the right words to share in the spirit of love & humility. That meeting may well have been ordered by the Lord & the words you shared with your neighbor might be the spark that will cause a deeper hunger & search for Truth. Anyway, he knows who he can come to for 'spiritual help'. Blessings.

Hi Tammy. Revelation 14:14-20: the verses aren't clear as to what Jesus reaped when He thrust in His sickle. I think you have assumed that it was believers that were harvested (or, raptured), & the angel clearly thrust in his sickle to gather the vine/grapes fit for destruction. The way I read those verses, is that the Lord harvested & the angel gathered. Even though a sickle is used for slashing a plant, it seems that it is used here as a symbol for gathering the harvest, that which the Lord performed. Can you read those verses in that way & see if that makes sense - since the Lord's harvesting doesn't describe the crops for harvest, it then has to be assumed that the whole job was for gathering the wicked together. And even here, the timeline of events appears out of sync. You may feel I'm laboring this point unnecessarily, but these are all small parts of eschatology that make up the whole account. Misunderstanding something here or applying the verses in another way, could well mean that we set off on another track.

As for God's Wrath, I agree that it is poured out because of the wickedness of unbelievers & for unbelievers only. But the matter that we discussed earlier was, 'is the Great Tribulation synonymous with God's Wrath, or merely a greater outpouring of horrors that comes on the whole world?' I shared that the Great Tribulation appears to be God's Wrath (as shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 11 & beyond) & we read this in Revelation 6:17 & Revelation 15:1, which fall upon men over a long period of time. And if it be God's Wrath from the time that His Restrainer is removed & the anti-Christ is revealed, then the Church (the true children of God) are snatched away before this time of torment.

Anyway Tammy, I see that our differences largely depend on the definition of these biblical terms & the verses that support them - hence the nature of the pre or post trib position are both valid depending on how we define these terms with their Scriptures. GBU.

I will start with your last question first, as I said in the last comment I made, as to where the saints are at the beginning of God's wrath, they are raptured. Rev 14 shows this, two sickles are thrust in, at the harvest, the first sickle is the rapture of the saints, the second sickle are the tares.

Your next question was about when the Great Tribulation begins and comes under the anti christ. I have never tried to pin point when exactly during the Tribulation the anti christ rises up. I believe we are currently in the "beginnings of sorrows". What the event is that kick starts the Great Tribulation, I don't know, my best guess is the persecusion of the saints. When will the anti christ rise up, I don't know...I just know he will, when he does, I'll know it. I know that God shortens the time of the Great Trib, God said if He didn't, no flesh would be saved. I have always categorized the great tribulation as the "tribulation of the saints", even though the world goes through it. This is the time that the saints are killed. And, I categorize the Wrath as the "punishment of the non believers". The saints are not appointed to God's Wrath.

Hope that helps. God Bless

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

It's so nice , when we are just ambling along in life , doing our usual dull routine , when suddenly from nowhere we get the chance to talk about the Truth . It made me smile all day , I hope I didn't scare him away :) .

Could it be that Pilate knew that Jesus had done nothing wrong under roman law ? Maybe he also knew how many ordinary people counted Jesus as a prophet and he didn't want a religious riot on his hands as this wouldn't look good for him with his superiors ? Jesus had had a very public 'trial' if we can call it that , the Jews wanted everything done above board and in public so there could be no come backs on from the roman authorities them after the event , as Jesus hadn't broken any roman laws and in truth hadn't broken any Jewish laws that permitted the death penalty . Also ,as I think TammyC states , there are prophecies in the O.T. that refer to the manner of Jesus death , that's the main reason that he died the way he did . With regards to Stephen and the lady caught in adultery , I'm guessing these things were done in quiet corners and very quickly while no roman guards were around , and it seems by what Pilate says that he was aware that the Jews sometimes executed their own justice on their own people for breaking the laws of Moses . All things were done in the sight of God the Father , what He permits we can't really question , but we can try to understand if we can find the answer in His Word , it's always in there somewhere .

Yes Mary1979, many people rather follow Church traditions & teachings & not read the Bible & learn the Truth for themselves. Yet, we cannot be judgemental towards them as God weighs their hearts which we cannot see - many are still saved in spite of being gullible & blindly following but have never matured in the Word & Spirit.

Many of these old traditions, especially seen in the high churches, emulate Old Testament patterns or from their own interpretations, even though those observances were never meant to be incorporated into Christ's redeemed, called-out Church. The only two Ordinances the Church was ever given to observe, were Water Baptism & the Lord's Supper. The early Church only knew of Christ's Life & Teachings through the apostles, and none of these 'strange & new' observances we see today were known to the apostolic Church, but instead are unbiblical developments through the ages.

Thanks Tammy. Yes 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 is very important. You're correct that Paul gives them insight when the Day of Christ will begin. The Thessalonians feared that it had already begun, being troubled by false teachers, that they were in it already (because of 2 Thessalonians 1:4) & the Lord had not yet come (even as Paul had earlier spoken to them about "these things" (v5)). So again, Paul had to rehearse these matters with them to assure & comfort them to pay heed to him & not others, that they had not missed out on Christ's coming, "and by our gathering together unto him".

That there has to first be a departure from the faith (an apostasy); I understand this to be the general deterioration within the Church (as we even see now with the preaching of error & the Church, which ought to be seen as the Light & Body of Christ, has become in many places, a haven for Satan to have his way & lead many devout earnest people happily into hell's pit). And after this will be the revelation of the anti-Christ.

Is it at this point (mid-trib) that you believe the world, including the Church will go into the Great Tribulation & come under the anti-Christ? Or, could it be that this is at the very beginning of the Day of Christ, where the Great Tribulation is about to begin but first there will be the "falling away & the revelation of the man of sin"? If, as I believe, the Gt. Tribulation is the tribulation from God (His Wrath & not man's daily tribulations), then I understand Paul stating to the believers there, 'the rapture will happen first at the introduction of the man of sin & then God's Wrath - so don't be misled that that day has already started.'

Before the Wrath (the Great Tribulation) must come the rapture - the anti-Christ is revealed because God has allowed it by removing His Restrainer - and if His Wrath is to be poured out on unbelievers, where is His Church, the one which was not appointed to receive His Wrath ( 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9)?

Thanks gigi

I'm a she. i'm your sister in Christ lol. thank you so much Zane4422.

Thank you very much S Spencer. God bless you too.

What is H G mean , sir ?

TammyC:

Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The field is the world, both the seeds of wheat and the seeds of tares are planted together, they grow together and are harvested together, but one goes to the fire and the other to the barn.

During Christ time everyone was associated with farming, today not many know much of anything about farming.

The tares are weeds, yet they also bear seed, the farmer burned the weeds to destroy their seed; so they, the weeds, would not keep multiplying, the wheat is gather into the barn to be replanted and thus multiplying.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: the SEED is the WORD of GOD.

Christ is the SEED, the SEED (wheat) is gather into the barn and replanted so it will multiply.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must go again (after your harvested) and prophesy again before many peoples, and nations and tongues.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the SEED) died anymore (you died with Christ): for they (the SEED) are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children (the SEED) of God, being the children of the RESURRECTION (you were raised with Christ) ...

the new creation the new SEED.

Isaiah 59:21 And this is my covenant with them (the harvested SEED), saith the Lord (our Father), MY SPIRIT that is upon thee (Christ, the WORD, the SEED, and the WORDS (seed) that I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED forever.

God bless you.

When lent is purely man made tradition, why are people following 40 days of lent period? How is this acceptable and pleasing to God ? Please share biblical regferences for the glory of Christ Jesus name.

Hello Donna. There are probably a few reasons why this occurred. In John 18:28, we read that "THEY led Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgement...". And when Pilate told THEM to "judge him (Jesus) according to their law", we can understand that the Sanhedrin (the supreme council & tribunal of the Jews) were involved in laying the charge against Jesus. Also, at that time under Roman rule & law, the hearing of accusations & pronouncing judgement had to be conducted only by the Roman procurator or his deputies & not by the people. As well, with those of Jewry that might have shown sympathy towards Jesus (as One doing nothing worthy of such treatment & death), it was in the Sanhedrin's interest to refer the matter of execution to Rome (in other words, 'let's pass the buck'), to avoid becoming unpopular & losing respect & face with their people.

So, why not in the case of Stephen ( Acts 7:54-60), or the woman taken in adultery ( John 8:3-5), though Jesus skilfully diverted their attention from the woman to themselves? In these passages, we see it was the Jewish religious leaders (the Scribes & Pharisees) & the mob they incited being urged to take the law into their own hands. They believed they were fulfilling the Law, which prescribed that adultery & blasphemy were sins worthy of death ( Leviticus 20:10; Leviticus 24:16). These were not the Sanhedrin (the official Jewish council who would pronounce judgement after due legal processes), though the Council comprised many of these men; they were the religious leaders, acting on their own, filled with religious fury, inciting the mob, determined to take matters into their own hands, believing that they were fulfilling the Law & doing God service.

This is how I understand the difference which you have picked up on: just a few thoughts for your consideration.

You're right, they didn't blink an eye when they stoned Stephen, but it was meant to be, the way Christ died for our sins. That was a great question Donna.

Jimbob, You are right in that you have been respectful of me. I was not referring to anyone on here. Thank you for explaining where you think I misrepresented you. I did not intend to do that. Have a good evening. We can talk another day on a different subject.

TammyC:

I agree, the spoken word of God keep Christ from being stoned.

The Jews said it was not lawful for them to kill; yet they killed Stephen, with seemingly no repercussion from Rome.

Sure LaTonya,

I will be [raying for you tomorrow and Thrusday.

This is just my opinion, but I think the way Jesus was to die was prophesied/OT, even down to the Romans gambling for his coat. So, Jesus couldn't be stoned.

Thanks for your comments Chris, you made a lot of good points. I liked the point you made about the angels proclaiming God's Word, and maybe the saints mentioned were converted by the angels. But we have this: 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul says:

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul is stating to these Christians, Jesus and the gathering of saints will not happen until the anti christ is revealed.

That means Christians will go through the Great Tribulation/Mark of the Beast. I believe the ones mentioned are those that didn't take the mark and remained alive (were not beheaded) (Those that were beheaded are in heaven given white robes Rev 7:14 and Rev 6:11)

And, the harvest of the earth, I believe is the parable of the wheat and Tares. You'll notice in Rev 16 and 19 there are two different times the sickle is thrust in, the wheat and tares. I believe Rev 16 is the rapture of the saints (the wheat), the first time the sickle is thrust in. The second time the sickle is thrust in is the Tares.

I hope this helps Chris.

That was so encouraging to read, Jema. The Lord gave you a lovely opportunity to engage with your neighbor - maybe he will be drawn to searching out the Word of God for the answer he needs. You could always drop him a note (in case he doesn't want to speak about the Bible with you), giving him the references to Enoch's & Elijah's translation & even the Scriptures which show that Isaac continued on in life & fathered an important son who would one day be re-named 'Israel'. Hopefully, that should excite him to learn more & give you a further opportunity to minister to him. Keep him in prayer & for an open door to share again with him. Every blessing.

This is the day that the Lord has made I shall rejoice and be glad in it. I am hear asking to be thought of in your prayers.I am having a procedure on Thursday but I am required to stay in the hospital Wednesday a day before the procedure because I am dehydrated. With any procedure I have I'm always nervous so I just ask for prayers on my behalf thank you prayer warriors God bless and Amen.

QUESTION?

John 18:31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews said therefore unto him, It is not LAWFUL for us to put any man to death.

Acts 7:59 And they STONED Stephen ...

Why could that not stone Christ; being unlawful, but they could stone Stephen?

They were under Roman rule when both these events took place.

Does anyone have insight into this, it was important even to be recorded in God's word.

God bless you.

GiGi Im sorry for commenting on this after I told you that this conversation was over. But GiGi you have completely misquoted something I said. You replied to Tammy and said "In the response I made to Jimbob, the Scripture he cited as his "proof" that the KJV is pure, perfect and inspired by God does not say anything about any translation of the original words of Scripture that was inspired, KJV included. But obviously, my disagreement with King James Onlyism strikes a nerve here, showing that the problem does not lie with me, but in those who hold to a cultlike dogma concerning the KJV". You didn't get what I sad even close to right. My comment was to Jema, I said "Theres one verse that I have posted many times that is ((proof)) THAT MODERN VERSIONS ARE WORDS OF MEN, (perverted) words not inspired by God. ( Jer. 23:36) The word (perverted) is #2015; it means ((to change)). Jer 23 was a warning of false prophets and pastors, and v36 tells us they have (changed) the words of the living God". Thats what I said, and that verse is ((proof)) that modern versions are words of men who (perverted), who (change) the words of the living God. The Niv I own even changed the word (perverted) to (distort). I am not responding to argue GiGi, I just don't want to be misquoted. I would also like to add I am not a part of any cultlike anything, and I don't think I have ever spoken "wickedly" of you or anyone else in this group. If I did in any way I do apologize for that. But many people are in agreement that the KJB is the Inspired Word of God, we are not a cult but we are True Believers in God and His Inspired Word. ( Jer. 23:36) does say changing the word of God is (perverted) Thats not me saying that, but it is the Word of God saying that. We can disagree on some things and we can agree on other things GiGi. But we should always do it with respect and love. Again if I said anything wickedly, or even hurtful in any way, I apologize for it. God Bless you.

Hey Jcolli9.

What you may see on the calendar is Passover as 8 days. Some call it the Feast of Passover and some call it the Feast of Unleavened Bread, some called it that in Jesus' time. That is probably why many times it seems Easter is in the middle. Passover is only one day it is the 14th of Nisan it is a preparation day for the 7-day Feast of the Unleavened Bread.

What is celebrated as Easter the day Jesus was resurrected is the Hebrew Feast of First Fruits. The day we call Palm Sunday the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem was the 10th of Nisan the day the lambs were taken up and held until the 14th Passover day and sacrificed at even, the same time that Jesus died.

I hope this helps if you want more let me know.

God bless,

RLW

GOD IS PURE

1 John 1:5

"This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

Habakkuk 1:13

"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on in iniquity,"

God is pure. There is no hint of evil, sin, or wickedness. He is absolutely sinless, forever righteous, always holy. He separates from Himself anything that offends Him through sin, iniquity, and evil.

Even though this is true, He made a way for sinful mankind to be received into His presence. This was to incarnate the Son and live among us who are sinful and in a world corrupted by sin. This was done out of His love and desire to save us. His Son, Jesus, became man to live a perfect, sinless life for us and to give Himself as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. He exchanged our sinfulness with His righteousness on the cross. He put our sins away from us and from the Father as far as the east is from the west, to be remembered no more by God. He took the Father's wrath of the offense of our sin for us, so that we can be delivered from the wrath of God in the life to come.

How great God is, who cannot look upon evil because of His purity, but at the same time can come to live among us to be the only sacrifice that would satisfy the wrath of God and release us from our sins. This is one of the many paradoxes concerning God.

So, in light of this, how then are we to live?

-by faith

-by trust

-by gratitude

-by humility

-in godliness

-in holiness

-in the truth

-in His love

-in fellowship with Him

-through His grace

-through His mercy

-through knowledge of Him

I believe you're correct Tammy, that the Book of the Revelation does not always appear in chronological order & even if we try & read it as such (with our logical, ordered minds), we can't be absolutely certain of the correct sequence of events, seeing that John received this heavenly vision & Word in a manner appointed by the Lord.

But you've directed my reading to Revelation chapter 14, in which you see "that the saints will be here for the event of the mark of the beast, and after that event, Jesus returns for the harvest". From Revelation 14:6, we read of an angel arriving in the heavens with "the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth". And then further down in verses 12 & 13, we read of "the patience of the saintsthat keep the commandments of God". I assume that these are the verses that convinces you that all believers (saints) will still be here, i.e. the Church pre- & during the Great Tribulation. Yet, if we take the angelic presentation of the Gospel (obviously not needed for the Church, but for the unbelievers at that time of anti-Christ's reign), then maybe the saints of verse 12 are those who were converted through the delivered Gospel, the Lord giving these others opportunity to repent & believe, who may already have taken the beast's mark, and to be saved. Just a thought.

And finally, verses 14 to 20 show the harvesting of the Earth. But who are harvested? In my reading, the harvest is directed to the haters & rejecters of God & are forthwith cast into "the great winepress of the wrath of God" (verse 20). Now, even if the order of events may seem unclear, at least those whom the Lord is referring to, is clear. And yes, both Revelation 15:1 and Revelation 6:17 declare that these sufferings do come from God (from His Wrath) & not resulting from natural occurrences that we see at present; that this time IS God's Wrath being poured out & not something felt at the end. So will the present Church be saved from this Wrath?

The obvious answer to your question is to make sure the Spirit of God has sole residence in the soul of your child. I will make an assumption here that she is a professing believer as well as possessing the Holy Spirit as evidenced by fruit in her life; as her mom you can probably see changes if indeed they exist from who she used to be. Then; of course there has to be no sin that the enemy can use as a legal stronghold.

Most people mention Satan himself; who is only in scripture mentioned to possess Judas Iscariot (although he spoke through Peter in manipulating his thoughts in response to Christ and an attempt to prevent Him going to the cross). He directly gives Antichrist his throne; but it appears the demon Apollyon from the abyss will possess him at that time when he has what appears to be a resurrection.

There is debate on whether a Christian can be possessed or not; or just oppressed. I personally have had demonic attack in my sleep so I would say that can occur; but oppression certainly is quite detrimental as well. Again; besetting sins allow strongholds; the only thing he can do when we are fully submitted to the Lord is affect us from the outside with instigating thoughts (which we will rebuke immediately with spiritual authority when in proper state with God); he also will bring persecution into our lives as well as those who would say pleasant things to draw us away from the Lord.

I would emphasize a repeated theme on my postings; that of being sure that those who you pray with are indeed Spirit filled; and to AVOID all those who are compromised so that you will not for instance; have them lay hands on you and bring demons into your life. (See Acts 13:3). Those who hear His voice will recognize those who God will use to strengthen us and to rebuke the enemy. Also as with Satan the demons can be cast out but not yet sent to the Abyss before the time.

God may use trials also to strengthen your daughter; even the enemy.

I am needing prayers of rebuking Satan he has ahold of my daughter and I need prayers and help to help her to rebuke Satan . She has two daughters that need prayers to help their mother. Amen