All Discussion PAGE 470

How is Easter in the Middle of Passover?

How do I help my daughter to rebuke Satan?

Tammy C.

I reviewed my posts and I did not say that anyone on here was reviling me. I don't know where you got that from, since I did not say that. Even so, I think you have spoken to me sensibly and with good intentions, as I have with you. So, thank you. This is the end of my input on this topic today. Have a good day.

Tammy C.

I appreciate your responses. I have read many things written by King James Only proponents who do speak of other translations as being vile, corrupt, and Satanically inspired. I have read things written by King James Only proponents who have said that those who read such translations can not be saved or that they are deceived by such translations. So, I know that you have not said this. And I appreciate this. Yet, the history of this movement bears out what I have said. I think that this is a good juncture to exit this discussion.

Richard, wow...that is so true. It's funny, because we agree on so much and we're from different camps on the Tribulation. It seems to me, based on your comments that you're prepared either way, no need for any worries of mine. That does set my mind at ease knowing that there are people of the pre trib camp that are prepared no matter what. Thank you. I actually needed that. God Bless!!

Zechariah 13:8 shows how two thirds perish and the other one third of national Israel go through the fire and are thus saved. Again; I will refer to those countless multitudes who go through this time of testing; as either new believers or those left behind (or both).

I referred before to many who are not producing fruit at present. Many I believe are hiding their light or have been rendered out of service by Satan because of legal access due to sin. This would include even Laodicians I would say. Fear of death ( Hebrews 2:15) has been a snare for many; it is something that the blood of Christ through the Spirit can make us overcome. It is surely true that some will when push comes to shove proclaim Christ; it is the cares of this world that for now have ensnared them. Many; of course will fall away and we are not to use such rationale as an excuse to continue in sin trusting that God will show mercy in such a way. The verses I've quoted show how God will reach all His sheep. This is why I am such a proponent of the Pre Trib rapture. True; some who aren't bold now and producing fruit may have it forced on them through the Tribulation (apparently meaing Tribulum or a way to rapidly bring wheat threshed to harvest). It has been proposed that the barley represents the early harvest or firstfruits; and the wheat or main harvest is later. I will get into that if there is an interest at another time and try to give references to others who have worked on that theory. There certainly is no room to be some sort of macho man thinking we will "brave it out" in the "not so bad" first half of the Trib. These are events including a plague that cannot be stopped to wipe out 1/4 of man. Whoever God chooses to purge this way I don't wish it on anyone nor want to endure it myself. Again; it is the demonic attacks on man directly and unrestrained evil where death and hell do prevail ( Rev. 6:8) which contradict ( Matt. 16:18; compare with Daniel 7:9.

Agape.

Tribulation: Declaration vs Preaching the Gospel today.

In today's dispensation (if you don't mind me using this time frame as a proponent of that terminology in the church age at present) we preach on the death; burial and resurrection of Christ. We therefore are "blessed" as Christ referred to Thomas of those who have believed and not seen ( John 20:29). There is a general call to the crowd and to those chosen (such as the more intimate discussions between Christ and His Disciples into the meanings of parables; for instance and other matters).

In the Tribulation as noted in my last post by Revelation 6 there is no need to explain these things; only a declaration to the world of judgments already transpiring and to come; a sort of "signs and wonders" prophetic battle between the side of God's angels and the demons before Christ's final battle settles the score once and for all. I proposed that the Rapture is to wake up the Jewish nation; and specifically activation of the 144,000 for just such a purpose to fulfill the original commission to reach all the cities of Israel which cannot happen until that time ( Matthew 10:23). It is odd that until the time of Christ's initial stages to take back Jerusalem ( Zech. 12:12 but also apparently alluded to on a larger scale in Matthew 24:30) that the Jews will not come to full realization of who Christ is. They at least are deluded until the midpoint of the Tribulation as to the fact Antichrist is not their Messiah and since the world at large knows His identity at the sixth seal it may be that they don't realize they have a need for Him to be their personal Savior but they may start understanding His Lordship over the earth. Thus; I would look at the Tribulation temple to be one that isn't wrong as to the ceremonial aspects; since Antichrist himself desecrates it. Psalm 50:8 seems to show this; albeit many other verses show God's disdain at such things. Those who don't know God will worship the Beast and die.

Concluding thoughts for now on Rapture and reasons for it; as well as Tribulation saints commentary

My proposition is that the final revival or as Joel 2:23 is basically attained in the "signs and wonders" environment which the rest of Joel and much of the O.T. discuss for the end times. As I have stated numerous times of late by the sixth seal ALL will know about God AND Christ on the throne. ( Rev. 6:12-17). This proves judgments of God clearly are poured out with comprehension by all those on earth at the time. Therefore; the Gospel as preached now will be unnecessary; Christ and God will be on one side; and Satan; the False Prophet and Antichrist on the other side. It would appear that with the woman riding the Beast the first part of the Tribulation the false Babylon one world religion will be the primary killers ( John 16:2; which appears to have particular emphasis on those in Israel at that time). Later on; of course the Antichrist destroys the religion and probably one of the headquarters by fire ( Rev. 17:16). I will state that those who are destroyed are naked; and that seems to parallel Revelation 16:15 as well as the fate of the Laodiceans. It appears a remnant will survive most of the Tribulation who don't step out in faith but also hide out from being forced to take the Mark.

The aforementioned verses and others such as similar sounding events in the seal; trumpet and bowl judgments which make us question not just the timing of the Rapture but other events I am not planning to go into a detailed analysis at present. I will state that just because things are hard to understand we shouldn't just place symbolic interpreteations on them; most believers don't with the already fulfilled prophecies when Christ came the first time so we shouldn't do so now with future events. There is as many are aware a time for "Jacob's trouble" or Daniel's 70th Week ( Jeremiah 30:17; Daniel 9:24-27) which seem to indicate the seven years to purge Israel.

Thoughts on the Rapture and timing as well as reasoning/

Note: I can't find the prequel as it were to this thread; so the audience may be limited. I may get into further discussion on the main discussion area but will try to sum things up here.

A major issue here that I have opened the "can of worms" on is; in regard to just who is identified as those dressed in white garments which were made that way through blood ( Rev. 7:14 referring to robes). It certainly can be expected that the witness of the 144,000 will bring many to faith and willing martyrdom. Other verses referring those whose garments were made white make verses such as Revelation 3:4; and Zechariah 3:3 be contrasted with Ephesians 5:27. For if some in Laodicea are naked among other things; surely anyone with a garment in God's presence is saved; although it is much like Jude 1:23 being saved as though through the fire; or 1 Corinthians 3:15 where one suffers loss and not much remains after their works are burned up by and large. In other words I would argue that to have a garment in the first place we are saved; if we allow sin to spot it then there are certain ramifications; including what I propose as missing the reward of a rapture if indeed it is more than just a salvation prerequisite. I would strongly suggest in these last days; there is little fruit being produced; and the Lord of the harvest is looking for it. He will either purge us to produce more fruit ( John 15:2) or as the same verse indicates we are not His child (producing no fruit) and are eventually cut off. Again; we need to broaden our scope and see those who are unbelievers; those judged more harshly for hearing and rejecting the truth; lukewarm believers and those who are producing much fruit. We must as Hebrews suggest; believe God is a rewarder of those things done for Him ( Heb. 11:6). We also should pay attention to those seeking a better country ( Heb. 11:16) of those who willingly gave up their lives for this.

Gigi, Thank you for your explanation, I knew what you meant, but was trying to be tactful while stating it. You've described me. And, I can promise you, I'm far from being cult like or in a cult. I only read the KJV, I believe it's the only Bible inspired by God and it's without error. However, I don't bash my brothers and sisters in Christ that read other versions. I believe you can still be saved while reading another version of the Bible. I think reading any Bible vs not reading one at all is a great thing. We'll just agree to disagree on your opinions here and leave it at that. God Bless

Jema, most concordance have an alphabetical listing of words used in the Scripture. Each word has Scripture references listed after each word with a short phrase after the Scripture reference. So, if I am thinking of a Bible verse, but do not know exactly where it is, then I can look a word of this verse up in the concordance and find the verse I wanted. This is very helpful to me. I have read the Scriptures all my life and I do recall many verses by memory, but I do not always know the exact place in Scripture as to book and verse by memory.

Oops Tammy, I am sorry I meant to say that I did not say that those who read only the KJV are cult-like. Rather I was speaking of those who adhere to King James Onlyism who adhere to the view that the KJV is error-free, re-inspired, and the only true Word of God in this day.

Tammy C. I did not say that the Bible is riddled with errors. I stated that the translations I mentioned, including the KJV are 99.9% accurate in translation from the text they were translated from. The errors that occur are quite minor and do not affect the overall meaning or doctrine put forth in the Bible.

I also did say that those who read only the KJV are cult-like, rather I was speaking of those who adhere to the King James

Onlyism sect that claims that only the KJV is error-free and re-inspired by God when it was translated, therefore bring perfect.

I do understand your admonition to me and I do take it seriously. I do trust that God will help those who are new believers in their approach to the Word. But thanks for the reminder.

Agreed, Tammy

Thank you for your comment Donna, those are really good points. God Bless

Right, many are called and few are chosen. The road is narrow, etc. I do believe we all need to be in a right relationship with God, through His Son Jesus. We need to be born again. I'm excited to see how you sort this all out. God Bless

Hello Jema,

I have heard of them, but do not know much about them. I do know that they contained the book of Isaiah. I will research more on them when I can.

Thanks Richard, I like that you're tackling this topic. Since the topic is futuristic/prophecy, we won't get it 100%, I don't believe anyone has it all figured out. So, I think it's great that we brothers and sisters in Christ can discuss and get as close as we can. God Bless

Part One: The Rapture: Timing and reason for it.

I do my best not to be overly redundant in these posts; I do have some earlier Revelation commentary as to cross references that make a Pre-Trib (or my own variation on it) conclusion. I try to quote references when available; on this post I am assuming most people already have a fundamental understanding of the Bible verses either supporting or against such a viewpoint. I will seek to look to the integrity of the whole Word of God; New Testament and Old. There are a few verses in Isaiah and Psalms which seem to talk of God hiding His people until the indignation be past such as Isaiah 26:20. I used Psalm 40 also to show how many will see and fear when we are lifted up from the miry clay as a sort of tie in to verses such as Romans 11:25 on the time of the Gentiles coming "to the full" or other verses in that book on Israel being provoked to jealousy to indicate how a Rapture as well as Resurrection of the saints would finally wake some people up.

The first fundamental concept is interpreting the bride of Christ from the wedding party; and or wedding feast of the Lamb. This makes the discussion of the 10 virgins a warning for all of us; whether it is to make the Rapture; or be ready for Christ's return. My introduction quotes a verse in Revelation 16 which still seems to show that late in the Tribulation some need to be alert to Christ's coming. I think at this point I also want to emphasize something else I stated earlier; that oftentimes there is a tendancy just to separate believers from nonbelievers. This has several issues; first of all it makes us ignore verses such as Revelation 3:11 about not losing our reward to another; and many other verses indicating various levels of spiritual fruit production and consequent rewards or lack thereof. ( Matt. 13:8; Matthew 25:14-30; etc). As Paul stated we are to seek the prize of His high calling (Phillipians 3:14). That means many miss out.

Hello Gigi , I'm guessing you already know about the dead sea scrolls ? If not , look them up , very interesting .

TammyC:

The last day has been going on for 2000 years, Paul understood he was living in the last day.

The word of God is written to each person; as you study and read, it's YOU, his church, the SPIRIT of Christ is speaking to, not a collective BODY, your the body of Christ.

Revelation is the revealing of Jesus Christ TO YOU; his church, his bride.

That (Christ) WHICH IS, and WAS, and WILL BE.

The words of Revelation mean the same TO YOU as it did to the person reading them 1900 years ago.

The words in Revelation are; ALSO, prophecies found in Mosses and the Prophets, Revelation is just a second witness.

In Matthew Jesus said, to be AWARE of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel

The prophecy says the messiah will be CUT OFF in the middle of the week, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, his happened at his death and resurrection.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be TAKEN AWAY (Christ become the once for all sacrifice) and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days,

This 1290 days is the same 3 1/2 years spoken of in Revelation, the second witness.

The BEAST with seven heads and ten horns is also spoken of in Daniel.

Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH BEAST shall be the forth (and last) kingdom on earth ....

The kingdom of Babylon (1st), the Medes and Persians (2nd), the kingdom of Grecia (3rd) and the KINGDOM OF GOD the 4th BEAST.

Luke 16:16 the law and prophets were until John, since that time the kingdom of God is preached ....

The forth BEAST: the kingdom of God has been on earth since John and will never cease to be, WHICH IS, and WAS and WILL BE: the last day, the sixth day in Genesis when man was CREATED by his resurrection with CHRIST.

God bless you.

God is still in control he raises up Kings and he brings down Kings. Prayer is definitely the key in these last days. God has the final say.

I was born again at 8 years old. My mother taught me the Word of God. My understanding was opened up by the Lord. I prayed through to Salvation and was baptized in the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues. (Act2:4) I did not have disciples ship after this encounter. My parents were in and out of church. I made a lot of mistakes and I was in and out of church. In 2017 I began to studying the four Gospels. I fell in love with the Bible and most of all Jesus. I read the whole Bible and used a commentary for harder things to understand. He consumed my life and I have not been the same. A Orphan spirit was broken off my life and I realized I a child of God. I have no longer been in and out of church. I have been called into the ministry. My parents are back serving the Lord and he is moving in their lives. I give Jesus Christ Yeshua all the glory!!

The reason King David was saying Beautiful for SITUATION the joy of this WHOLE EARTH...Is mount Zion the city of the great king ( the kingdom of God is gonna be SITUATED with in us) in Psalms 48:3...Thats y it is so beautiful simply b/c its gonna be with in us SINNERS to lead us into all truth...Which answers to our new heart and new spirit that is our new innerman Christ in us

.....That great King is Jesus that is gona be born in us...An external Kingdom wd be no threat to satan but an internal Kingdom wd destroy satans Kingdom which is our carnal minds...Satans seat...Thats y Jesus mentions kingdom against Kingdom....The wheat against the Tares which is satans seed...The great war...That Great tribulation....The most Beautiful place for humanity is in Christ and Christ in us sinners...And thats y he died that he might reconcile all men back to God and not only that but give us this ministry of reconcilation...Regeneration the multiplication of his seed etc...Remember Paul writes to some saying you are come into mount Zion the city of the living God to that Heavenly Jerusalem...Hebrews

12 :22....But they were still on this earth simply b/c Paul writting to them in Hebrews 12...Or whosever wrote Hebrews...

......Remember Jesus had said the Kingdom wd be with in you...And thats y David said beautiful for SITUATION the joy of this whole earth...The Kingdom the H.G. is gonna be with in us...Thus the Kingdom is gona be right here on this earth....k Gbu

Plz do not be upset with me....But the man you are grooming with concordences and commentries and the Greek language and siminaries is not gonna make it...Our old adamic nature is the man that returns to his vomit and the sow that returns to her mud...Jesus tells us of man who is forgiven but walks thru dry places seeking rest but finds none then takes with him 7 other demons more wicked then himself and they enter in and the last state of that mans worse then the 1 st... MATT 12:45...Stay away from all carnal man made devices,bible schools, concordences. Siminaries...Rich preachers commentaries...Stick to the word of God the Anointing that is supposed to live with in you, is Christ living with in you....Examine your selves is Christ is living with you. 2 COR.13:5...If Christ is living in you need no man teach you...1 st John 2:27...The anointing you have living within you will teach you all things....you need no man teach you....A lil Child is gonna lead us in all truth...Which is the Anointing the H.G....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my NAME RECEIVETH ME...Remember Jesus said that the H.G. will come in his NAME

.....You cannot groom satan ( our old adamic nature ) the flesh into the Kingdom of God...Its gotta be a completly new Creature via the seed of the sower the living word the new covenant in his blood....Not circumcision nor uncircumcision...but only a new Creature...Which is the H.G...Nothin availeth any thing in Christ Jesus but a new Creature the manchild...mankinds fruit unto God...Its gotta be That Christ in you doing the Teaching...Anything that man ( the flesh ) touches brakes out into a viper....Our flesh our carnal minds is the very enemy of God ROMANS 8...k

G.M. H.G. Kingdom seekers...let me ramble a bit plz... 2 Cor. 13:5 Examine your selves whether ye be in the Faith.. is Christ living with in you...Did you birth a baby Christ in your heart...Are you with Child of the H.G. That Child of PROMISE...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in..The manchild is gona rule all nations...Thats y the new birth is so important we have to birth a baby Christ...Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME..The Kingdom cannot come unless he sows his good seed in our hearts...Thats y he has to know us..And also thats y he died when a seed dies it multiplies...smite the Shepard Zech. 13:7 kjv ( his death ) and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the lil ones...a baby Christ that is gonna be born in us... Rev. 12:5 Thats y the woman ( humanity ) has to birth the manchild...Which is her new heart and new spirit..The Kingdom...And she keeps the commandments simply b/c he that is born of God cannot sin..Thats her Child the H.G. that cannot sin b/c he is born of God in us via the seed of our lord Jesus.

.....Thats y Elijah has to come and turn the hearts of the fathers to the Children...His Children, Whosoever receiveth one such Child n MY NAME.

.....But if Christ lives in us we donot need other teachers....The Anointing you have received of him liveth with in you and he will teach you all things...1 st John 2:27...The Anointing is the H.G. the Child of PROMISE...The kingdom... Isaiah 11 Thats y Isaiah 11 is saying a lil Child is gona lead them which is the H.G. that Spirit of truth, that y Jesus said he cd not speak of himself simply b/c he has to be born in us...He is just an infant spirit...Infants cannot speak for season...Thats y Isaiah mentions the woman with Child and she that travails with Child a great company....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven.. Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit....Thats the Children of Promise. k

Yes STU , all Christians believe this . This does not mean however that Mary was sinless . Do you know how easy it is to sin ? Do you not realise that we all do it , every day ? Only Christ is sinless . The rest of us mere mortals are filthy creatures , including Mary . Some of us are less sinful than others but we all sin everyday . Read the book of James . He always makes me thoroughly ashamed of myself every time I read it .

Yes , even when the Word is true people still misunderstand it . I was talking to a neighbour just yesterday and for the first time he mentioned the Bible . I was so excited and my ears pricked up , he said : I was browsing my Bible last night and it's so full of contradictions ! I asked what they were and he said : what happened to Isaac ? One minute he's there the next God whisks him away ? I said I don't think you mean Isaac , maybe Enoch or Elijah , no no he said it was definately Isaac . I tried once more , very gently as I didn't want to discourage or push him away but he was adamant and then changed the subject . What could I do ? Even when it's all there in black and white ! I did say that his problem was that he was browsing through it , told him he needs to read it all etc , guess what he said ? He said ( he's 76 years old) oh I don't need to bother with all that really , I'm a catholic . I'm not joking :( . I shan't give up on him though , he's a sweet man , very kind and gentle , at least he showed some interest so maybe I can build on that at some point .

Godhead Father = the soul. Jesus= the Body Holy Spirit = he Spirit. 3 in 0ne.

I'm confused , sorry , if it doesn't have the Greek or Hebrew meanings or words etc , what is it exactly ?