All Discussion PAGE 475

STU,

I would like to give an alternate answer to your original question, seeing that your question only required a simple yes or no.

You ask "Does the Holy Bible say that Mary the mother of God was without sin?"

The answer is no.

If you have biblical proof to show otherwise, can you please provide it? The verses you provided do not show Mary to be without sin, nor do they support perpetual virginity.

I would like to see scripture that supports what you are saying. I cannot consider these things without scriptural proof. Can you please provide those scriptures?

Thank you ahead of time for sharing!

Luke 1:34 - Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? Mary was sinless.

STU

There is not a verse in the Bible that calls Mary The Virgin Mary. The Bible does say that she was a virgin. However, being a virgin does not equate to sinlessness or else every woman who is a virgin could be said to be sinless.

Galatians 4:4 says that God the Father sent forth His Son in the fullness of time, born of a woman. God ordained that Mary would be the mother of His Son in His incarnation. She was selected before the world began.

Elizabeth said that Mary is blessed of all women in Mark 1:42. And therefore, she is the most blessed woman of all time. But that does not make her sinless. She said in Luke 1:47 that her spirit rejoices in God my Savior, showing that she knew that she was a sinner and in need of a Savior.

We can honor Mary for what God chose her to be, but she is not more than a woman chosen by God to become pregnant with Jesus and raise Him to manhood. What the Catholic and Orthodox churches teaches about her being sinless, having an assumption to heaven without dying, and being a co-redemptrix with Jesus are all added doctrines to the Scriptures and are to be rejected because the Bible does not teach these things.

I understand that you wish to follow the teachings of your church's authority. But I urge you to take a different approach and have the Scriptures be your final authority and submit to its teachings only for faith, life, and practice. While there is much to be commended in the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, there are many doctrines that have been added over the centuries that were not part of the doctrines of the apostles and early church. I recommend that you test all that is taught to you in your church by what the Scriptures teach and hold on to all that aligns rightly and taught with Scripture and reject all that cannot be found in Scriptures.

I have known a number of people in the Catholic Church who have done this and found that there are some teachings that they needed to reject upon examination.

Why would the Bible call Mary the mother of God " The Virgin Mary" if she was a sinner and besides Jesus is free from sin so God his Father would not have chosen a sinner to give birth to a sinless Jesus.

Luke 1:27

To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

And Catholics and Orthodox don't make a graven image of the Virgin Mary. And if what you said 'a graven image' then that is untrue.

Exodus 26:

Moreover, thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubim's of cunning work shalt thou make them.

Hi Jema

So true,

You may have done this before but if you haven't, I think you will find it worthy of a study of the word patience. It is different from faith, but it is very valuable. Look up the meaning and verses in the bible where it is used and the context of the verses around it. In the conversations about the end times that have been going on, this word is emphasized in Rev. 13:10 and Rev. 14:12. We will need patience if we are living when the beast shows up. Many things come out of patience.

God bless,

RLW

Reading through Matthew Chapter 24, and Matthew 24:13 says "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Our English Bible makes it sound like a challenge for us to endure unto the end, like we need to do whatever it takes to endure.



But the literal translation from the Greek is, "but the one who has endured," not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.



In the Greek text, this is an Aorist Participle, which shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament.



The person who is saved WILL endure to the end. So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. Salvation is a promise. We are saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.

Rick The Word of God tells us in ( Mt. 24:36) "But of that (day) and (hour) knoweth no man" We should know the season by what's written in the prophecies in the Word of God. I am not trying to set any dates here Rick, but it seems we are living this time period today in ( Mt. 24:4-13) Where it looks like the next great event that happens is the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place ( Mt. 24:15) which will start great tribulation ( Mt. 24:21-21) I agree we should Watch as ( Mt. 24:42) tells us. I think the prophecies that are being fulfilled today are showing us it won't be much longer that our Lord will return to gather together His elect, the church. But we will see things get much worse before His return, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved". (Mt.24:13) We need to stay strong in our Faith, and always put our trust in Him, and endure unto the end and we will be saved. This world is being controlled by evil forces today and that can be seen in so many different ways ( 2 Cor. 4:4) Here are instructions for us on how we should stand against those evil forces. ( Eph. 6:10-17) If we don't "Put on the whole armour of God" then we won't have any chance of standing against them and not being deceived by those evil forces! Stay strong, and put on that whole armour of God. May God Bless you. Thank you Rick.

To God B All The Glory I'm Forever Thankful Beyond Grateful For Grace Abundantly Blessed & Highly Favored, Praising, Glorifying & Thanking U Heavenly Father God for Blessing us this morning with the gift of seeing another beautiful sunrise & this evening to see another beautiful sunset Father God we Thank U for your strength & energy that sustained us throughout this entire day & Hugging us so tight that all our Broken Pieces will fit back together again

Gratitude is Always Our Attitude In Jesus Name AMEN

Jesus said ye are made clean by the Word I have spoken unto you John 15:3...Was not Mary's fetus.. Infant Jesus the living word spoken unto Mary....Thus she was made immaculate spiritually speaking....As Jesus was the living word spoken unto Mary...I know that Mary offered up 2 turtle doves for her cleansing according to the law....But that was for her past sins...We cannot throw Jesus's words out of the window...When he said you are made clean by the word i have spoken unto you that applied to Mary also....Or anybody that hears his voice as his voice are his words the good seeds that initiate the new birth of Christ in us...Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man...Simply b/c mankind has to birth a baby Christ in the SPIRIT as that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit....Which is the H.G. that Child of Promise.... Luke 8:21..Who is my Mother and brethren them that hears my Words and keeps them...His seed....When he breathe on them they were impregnated by his breath which was his words, his seeds...Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...That was the great Promise i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven...Thus the sower and his seed his words his breath....He wants us all to be his Mother....That woman in Rev 12:5.. giving birth to the manchild are the children of Promise are his Mother the Church. ...It was his seed the words of the book, that New Covenant n his blood that impregnated the woman in Rev 12....Thats y Isaiah refers to Jesus as everlasting father....He is gonna father many Children with his seed the words of the book in the Fathers right hand...But they are spirits as that which is born of the spirit is spirit....That are gonna be as the stars of heaven in multitude....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....Thats y he is saying blessed are them that follow me in the regeneration...That Mutiplication of Promise....ok lemme go get some coffee...GBU

Me too , thanks for putting it so plain .

I believe that the last days before Jesus returns are going to be very stressful indeed . I feel that this is why we need to study the Bible every day , if we are alive just before Christ returns we are going to see and experience some awful things , our faith needs to be rock solid to ensure that we don't fall into temptation and start trusting in man to save us from the tribulations and the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole world . Of course , God's plan of salvation through Christ is very simple and easy to understand , it is the bread of life to us , but also as we study the Bible and see the beautiful patterns and symmetry in God's word and recognise His power and wisdom to save , to save us , we feel closer to Him and learn to trust Him more and more every day , our faith is increased and we should , with His help , be able to withstand the coming trials and tribulations . Remember what Jesus said to Ananias about Paul ? Acts Ch 9 verse 16 . We are not always going to have easy lives in Christ , Paul certainly didn't , he suffered all kinds of physical discomfort and abuse . Did his faith fail even though he was often in dire straights ? I hope God will bless us all with strong faith in Him and love for Him and each other . Love in Christ .

please remember me and my family in your prayers

In Luke 12:35-48 there are some credible words. Pay special attention to v. 48. Before, I've read this as a judgment on those who don't listen. But here it says that we will get what we deserve. That is, if you are a Jesus save person, we can never be anything else. It is the surrounding environment that creates this division. Jesus explains it in the next section.

In 1 Timothy 1:18-20, we get another small clue that the condemnation the Christians bring upon themselves is and becomes sensual/bodily and certainly not in the Spirit of the Lord. Pay special attention here to v. 20. Even Paul is saying here that they will learn! That means they are not condemned by him or Jesus. So what does that mean? For us grace over grace. We must work on our salvation with fear and trembling. Because Jesus says it at the beginning of this chapter of Luke. Repent and understand the difference between body, soul, and spirit. Ask for forgiveness loudly so that our enemy can never ever pass the transgressions a few more times for us. Those we have, in the body of Jesus we are equal before God. Amen. For we converted have received the Spirit of the Lord and understand when we have done something wrong. Hallelujah, we have no escapes. And we're doing the best we can, aren't we? Praise be to God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

Which of us wants to throw away the only nice/good thing we have in life?

So we take up our sword and repel our enemies. You're right Bill, remember and be strong and brave. He never leaves you. He is. Love u all in Christ, and have a much happy Easter. Considering that He is alive today!

I would like to thank you all for your prayers and also the admins for this great website where we can meet in a time of need whether for prayers, questions and answers ect.

I would have you know God has answered our prayers for the Spencer family regarding my brother Marvin to a point it's hard to understand!!

There's not much sadness if any with me,

There's just short moments but they end up with me smiling.

The last few days of his life here on earth God answered a few specific prayers directly!

We're in a good place.

He's in a better one.

God bless you all and thanks.

So sad to read this my dear brother. May you & all the family know the immeasurable Grace & Strength of the Lord at this time - and with His Grace, comes healing. "...with Christ, which is far better" ( Philippians 1:23) was your brother's hope & our present longing as we will one day meet our Savior & God and see all who have gone on before us. You're in my thoughts & prayers brother.

Thank you brother for your kind words & yes, it's good to be back after a lovely short spell away. I did miss you all & tried to keep up to date with various submissions by folk, whenever I was able to connect with my intermittent internet.

And thanks for the reminder: 'by whom we are 'persuaded'. Every Spirit-filled believer ought to be constantly in tune with & be led of the Holy Spirit, though how often our flesh raises its ugly head & 'persuades' us to disobey. But we cannot claim ignorance or apathy when that happens - we WILL know it - the Spirit will not let a millisecond pass by without an immediate sense of straying off the path of holiness & truth - it just cannot happen to the one Spirit filled. What we do with His Word alerting us or convicting us, indicates how well we are walking in the Spirit ( Galatians 5:16,24,25) & pleasing our Lord.

When a man easily drifts into sin, sensing no spiritual alert, maybe even finding some Scripture & distorting it to fit his lust, that man truly needs to stop in his tracks, come aside for a while & "examine himself" whether he truly has the faith that saves, secures, & satisfies. And for many, I think, this is hard to come to grips with: how can they determine that the life they live, the decisions they make & recognizing how & when the Spirit is working, are truly of God & not from human capabilities & expertise? Human goodness & desires can often be intermingled with the Spirit's Voice & leading, bringing about confusion. But we should know the difference - as mature believers, it should be abundantly clear to us of the difference between the Spirit speaking (& persuading) and the persuasions from the flesh. And when the flesh is crucified daily, as the apostle did, we can be assured of being led only of the Spirit & our thoughts & hopes will always be directed heavenward. Every blessing brother & thanks again for sharing on this very important topic to remind us 'that we're not our own' ( 1 Corinthians 6:20).

Hi Stu,

Based on your initial question, then based on your disagreement with someone who answered your question, I'm not sure you were genuinely seeking an answer. But in case its helpful to any one else viewing the topic I'll share my thoughts.

Some say we're all born into sin- from the original sin. I believe the original sin affects all of us. Jesus was sinless and perfect His whole life. He's the only one like that.

Based on references like Matthew 18:3 I think it's possible that we're born innocent, pure, and sinless, but is inevitable sin will occur. All people sin (Jesus is the only exception). Mary is not an exception, nor any other people from the Bible. This verse Psalm 51:5 suggests Mary had sin. There is no such verse claiming she was any different than anyone else, other than being chosen for giving birth to Jesus.

When I see some Catholics praying to Mary, chanting to her, singing to her, worshipping her, making graven images of her and bowing down to her statue, it seems like an obvious sin of idolatry- violating the 2nd commandment: Deuteronomy 5:7.

Acts 4:12 says there's no one else but Jesus. Not Mary, not a pope, not a pastor, not the government, not family, or friends, or anyone else but Jesus in whom we should put our hope and trust in.

God bless.

Ronald Yes Jesus comes for the church (Immediately after the tribulation), ( Mt. 24:29-31) He doesn't carry us to heaven we meet Him in the air, in the clouds, ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) And the word (heaven) is #3772; it means (through the idea of elevation) ((the sky)), by extension heaven (as the abode of God) by implying happiness, power, eternity, ((air)) When Jesus comes in the clouds and all True Believers are caught up to meet Him in the air, (1 Thess.4:17) Don't you think that would be as a thief in the night to All non-believers who just witnessed a great multitude of people just disappear, and they are still left on the earth? Also when Jesus comes to the earth riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16) the beast, (the antichrist) and the kings of the earth, and their armies are gathered together to make war against Christ in ( Rev. 19:19) That return is defiantly not as a thief in the night, so the return in the clouds when He gathers together His elect are the only verses that could fulfill the coming as a thief. Right? There are two different returns Ronald, the first one He comes in the clouds and True Believers meet our Lord in the air, in the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) The ones who are left ( Mt. 24:40-42) are the disobedient non-believers to face the wrath of God being poured out on the earth after Believers are taken. ( Jn. 3:36) ( Rom. 5:9) Tells us "we are saved from wrath through him" ( 1 Thess. 1:10) Tells us "even Jesus, which ((delivered us FROM THE WRATH TO COME))" ( 1 Thess. 5:9) Tells us "For God hath not appointed us to wrath" ( Eph. 5:6) and ( Col. 3:6) both tell us the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. The disobedient will be the only ones left on the earth to face the wrath of God. (Romans.1:18) Now the second return is riding a white horse when Jesus returns to the earth (with the church) to rule all nations with a rod of iron ( Rev. 19:15) Coming in the clouds to gather His elect, and Him riding a white are two very different returns.

STU,

When you say "We believe," who are you referring to as we? I also believe that Mary was the mother of Jesus, but I also know that Jesus was already in existence before Mary was even born.

Thank you for explaining what the term virgin means. That is my understanding also. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived, but after His birth, she did not remain a virgin.

There are some who believe that she remained a virgin her entire life and that she was consumed up to heaven the same as Jesus was, but there is no biblical support for that.

To GOD Be All The Glory. Won't He Do It? We will keep you and your family lifted up in our prayers.

Hey S Spencer,

I am so sorry; my prayers are with you and your family.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Jema,

Well said, I agree there will be Christians alive but we see many will be killed for not taking the mark. When Jesus returns and sets this kingdom up, scriptures like those you listed, the land that was promised to Abraham will be amazing. We also see there will be a remnant of Israel that their eyes will be opened, Romans 11:25-26.

We see people living full long lives and animals in peace as they were first created. I am not sure but I believe Abraham and others from the Old Testament will be in the first Resurrection. As you said one day we will understand everything.

Hebrews 11:8-11 Abraham looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. We are shown this city that Abraham will see in Rev. 21:9-27 that God and Jesus the Lamb will be the temple. It will be after the new earth when we see it coming down.

I am with you, if we out of love are respectful to each other and humble and I agree the more we are in God's word it feeds our faith.

God bless,

RLW

Hey Jimbob,

Forgive me I am just trying to understand. Jesus comes for the Church after the great tribulation and carries it to heaven for the marriage supper then the wrath is poured out then Jesus returns with the Church. If the Church is taken to heaven, if it is pre, mid, or post-trib. the world would know it. If the wrath is then poured out while the Church is in heaven and before Jesus comes back to the earth how could that be as a thief in the night as in 1 Thess. 5:1-3 2 Thess. 2:1-3 Rev. 16:15

The second coming of Christ will be like a thief catching the wicked off guard in their oblivious state. Jesus second coming will be the first resurrection and those resurrected and those changed will be with Jesus in and around Jerusalem not in heaven while the wrath is being poured out. It culminates at the battle of Armageddon as we see as the vials are poured out with the seventh vial Rev.16:13-17 Rev.19:17-21 also Rev. 17:12-14.

If the wrath is poured out before Jesus comes back, could we say that Jesus is coming back as a "thief" after the world has just experienced his previous earth-destroying judgments? As Jesus said again Rev. 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

He comes as a thief so we are to watch until He comes, and He only comes once, and when He comes, He will set up His kingdom and He will be king over all the earth, Zechariah 14:9.

I know that is different, but this is what scripture says to me.

God bless,

RLW

Brother Spencer,

I am so sorry to hear this. My prayers are also with you during this difficult time. The only comfort we find is knowing that your brother is now with the Lord.

Hello Jema,

Hebrews 11:8-10, 16 says that Abraham and those of the OT promises were looking forward to the heavenly country that God would bring them into.

Jesus, in talking to Pilate, said that His kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36. He went to heaven to prepare a place for us so that where He is we will be.

Therefore, I am not looking for an earthly existence upon His return, but an heavenly. He will make a new heaven and a new earth after He destroys the wicked and unbelievers, resurrects and glorifies believers and destroys the present heavens and earth. So, these new heavens and earth will be our eternal home. They will not be tainted by sin. Perhaps we will be able to transfer readily between heaven and earth as Jesus was able to do after His resurrection. So, there is a purpose for both the new heavens and new earth. We just do not know how God will us them concerning us and His glory in that age of eternity.

S. Spencer,

Sorry for your loss but we can rejoice that he is with our Savior. I will keep you and your family in my prayers this week.

Agreed Rick,

Many say that we are in the very last of days. Maybe we and maybe we are not. Throughout the church age people have thought that surely we are in the last of days when times have been really bad. But Jesus did not return in their lifetime.

It may be this generation that will witness His glorious return to bring an end to evil and resurrect and change believers. And so, we need to stay prepared and ready for this. But also, we need to "work while it is day" in that we are to do what we can with the time we have to try to improve our communities and country and world as we are able to do. It may be another 200 or even 2000 years before Jesus returns. So, what type of world do we want to work for in regards for our children and grandchildren and on down the line of descendants. The forefathers of our nation had a "long" vision for the United States and crafted a constitution that has stood strong for several centuries.

But we really do not know what the future holds for. We do know how it all ends. But in the mean time, we are to live out our 70-80 years of life with integrity, strength of conviction, hope and faith in the future God has designed for us, and love for the people in our immediate sphere and also for those across the globe and around the world.

And Jesus was often seen to associate with sinners and that is why He came to save us from our sins.

We believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and was born without sin like Jesus who was born without sin. She is called the Virgin Mary. The term Virgin means someone who has not had sexual intercourse.

STU,

The Bible does not teach that Mary was sinless. In fact, if you look at Luke 1:47, what Mary says in the content in Verse 47. My spirit celebrates in whom? God my Savior. She has an awareness already that she needs a Savior. That means that she has an awareness that she's a sinner and she needs a Savior just like everyone else does.



We have to keep that in mind about Mary. We don't want to put her down, but we want her put her in her place and realize that she is blessed among women, but she is still a sinner like you and I and needs a Savior.