All Discussion PAGE 478

S. Spencer, you have included lots of information for me to unpack, so it will take some time for me to examine the Scripture sections and questions you have posed.

Thanks for responding. I'll get back to you after I have considered more thoroughly what you have posted.

Looks like part 1 and 2 may run together and get crossed up between the 2 posts. one would have to put them in order by the time sequence.

God bless and goodnight.

Hi Gigi.

Part 2.

If the coming of the Lord and the gathering together of believers unto Him, and the Day of the Lord are all the same event as you stated,

Who's going to populate the Millenium if all the wicked is destroyed and the righteous raptured at this junction?

Who's these 2 groups described in Revelation 20:8-9?

"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And (THEY) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the (SAINTS) about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured (THEM).

Who are these saints?

Who are they that went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints?

If we would let the scripture tell us, verse 8 tells us who the saints are. (whom is as the sand of the sea.) This is an Old Testament idiom for Israel.

We know they're not the church they reign with Christ during this period and in Revelation 19:1-9 the Church has made herself ready.

And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

To hold that view one would have to suggest that the Church was raptured then returned, Satan released, the wicked resurrected to cause more harm for the bride to go thru it all over again.

You have to include the Millennium in your eschatology theology.

That's why some post trib people say were already in the millennium to get rid of this major issue.

Thank you Cindy I know that scripture well. I just think that when someone is wrong there is nothing wrong in apologizing for it. When I give in that means that what ever the issue was not wrong in my sister's eyes.

Thanks for the response Gigi.

part 1

That's a good point you make,

However, Here's a few issues with that view,

1) The day of the Lord is mentioned 31 times in the bible, 26 times in the Old Testament and 5 in the New Testament.

To my knowledge nowhere in scripture it mentions any removal of the saints.

Here's a few.

Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5) and several times in the New Testament ( Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10). It is also alluded to in other passages ( Revelation 6:15-17; 16:14).

In 2 Peter 3:3-18 we are told the Lord is longsuffering to us-ward, and holding back his wrath not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Notice something in verses 11 and 12.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? ITS A QUESTION!!

The answer is NO!

Here's what were looking for;

Verses 13-16.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

See part 2 and the second issue I have with that view.

CSmith925 remembering you in prayer. take comfort in Christ brother. love you!

Thank you gigi

Moses is the author of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These five books are considered the Torah for the Jews, or the Book of Moses, or the Pentateuch.

Hello S. Spencer, I just wish to add that verse one says

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him. I believe that this verse and verse two are both speaking of the same thing, the coming of the Lord and the gathering together of believers unto Him, and the Day of the Lord are all the same event.

Hammer63, you explained that perfectly. "For that day shall not come..." What day? "Our gathering together unto him". Until what? Until there is a falling away and the anti christ is revealed, and that is during the Great Tribulation. Jesus returns and gathers us together unto him after that.

I understand why some people might be afraid to go through this Tribulation, they have family, children, etc., but not preparing for it is dangerous, because deception seems to be what is warned about the most, not the beheadings. Jesus even said in Matthew 24:

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Brother Spencer,

Great post, thanks for sharing this!!!

Who is the author of the book of Leviticus?

Thanks Brother Ronald and Brother Jesse.

I know I haven't seen anything posted or replied from him in a while.

I don't get to follow aa much as I would like to.

God bless you both.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-14.

Part 2.

Continuing with just a few of the Day of the Lord verses.

Zephaniah 1:15

Isaiah 13:9

Lamentations 2:1

Isaiah 13:13

Isaiah 51:22

Jeremiah 25:15

Revelation 16:19

Revelation 14:10

Revelation 16:1

Isaiah 63:1-6.

This is what Paul is telling them is not at hand. This is what we all agree on besides a few that the Church will not see.

However some see the Rapture in Revelation 20:4-6 sadly mistaking it for the Resurrection.

That would place the Church on the Earth during the wrath of the Lord that comes upon all the Earth.

When we take 2 Thessalonians 2:3



"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;

Paul gives them the sequence of events in chronological order of what happens "AFTER" that what he reminded them of previously in

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

That's why he opens up saying "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by "OUR" gathering together unto him," 2 Thessalonians 2:1.

Paul included them and himself in this gathering! So did they see the son of perdition? No.

We take 2 Thessalonians 2:3 with the following scriptures to pitch our viewpoint. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-15.

The son of perdition can't come while the light bearers is in the world. The Church! Who sits in the midst of the Church? Christ/His Holyspirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8.

God bless.

Hey brother,

I think Chris is on vacation and said he would be away for a couple of weeks. We should see him pop up on here soon.

Hey S Spencer,

Chris is on vacation, maybe for another week or so.

God bless,

RLW

Is the great tribulation and the wrath of God the same time period? First we look at ( Rev 15:2) This verse tells us those who had (gotten the victory over the beast), and over his image, and (over his mark), and over the number of his name, stood on a sea of glass, having the harps of God. When will the mark of the beast be forced on all? During great tribulation which will be the last 3 1/2 year period. ( Mt 24:15,21,22) When the abomination of desolation stands in the holy place, then will be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. What will be happening during this time period? ( Rev 13:5-8) v5 Tells us the beast is given power to continue forty and two months which will be the last 3 1/2 years. v7 Tells us "it is given unto him to make war with the saints". (non-believers will willingly accept his mark, but True Believers in Jesus Christ, the saints will not). (What will the war be against the saints?) ( Rev 13:15-18) v16 Tells us "he causeth all to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. v17 That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark of the beast. Now back to v15 "and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed" (Those who will not worship the beast or receive his mark will be killed) Now to ( Rev 15:5-8) v5 tells us "And after that" After what? Those who had gotten the victory over the beast and over his image stood on a sea of glass in heaven! (After that) v7 Tells us "the seven angels are given seven golden vials (full of the wrath of God). v8 Tells us that no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. ( Rev 16:1-2) v1 Tells us "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. v2 Tells us the first vial is poured out and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast. The wrath of God comes after great tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-14.

Part 1.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 one must 1sr understand that the day of the Lord is not the tribulation. Here in verses 2 and 3 Paul is assuring the Thessalonians that day hasn't come yet. In verse 3 He's assuring them that there was no msg sent by him that the day of the Lord was at hand and that the great tribulation will come 1st and also that day hasn't come yet. That's why he mentions the son of perdition.

vs 2)"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter AS FROM US, as THAT THE DAY OF CHRIST IS (AT HAND.)

vs 3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

VERSE 1 IS THE SCOPE OF THE LETTER.

vs 1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM,

By letter by "SUPPOSEDLY" from Paul they thought the day of the Lord has begun.



In vs 5 he reminds them of what he told them before.

vs 5) "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"

Here's what he reminded them of.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Most of what we know about the day of the Lord is in the OT.

Here's verses from the OT describing what the day of the Lord will be like.

Zephaniah 2:2-3.

Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.

"Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER."

Zephaniah 1:18.

Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of (ALL) them that dwell in the land.

see part 2.

Send prayers for Sister Gianna's dog named Gizmo, he had a really bad ear infection last night and is going to the vet today, please pray for Gizmo, thank you.

Lemme just ramble a bit plz....Rev.14 :6 And i saw a mighty angel flying in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach to all that dwell on the EARTH....To every nation and ppl and tongue and Kindred this is indicative of everybody...If i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me...At Calvary Jesus died for everybody....If ya read Jeremiah 31:34 its all inclusive I will know them ALL from the least to the greatest...But this is that N.C. The book in the right hand of the father that our Lord wrote with his own blood...And i wept much b/c no man cd look into it....Which answers to that secret Jesus spoke of....These things are hid ( a secret ) from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes which is the H.G. as that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit from the seed of the sower...She brought forth a man child that is gona rule all nations with his rod of iron...The word of God is that rod or iron that cannot be broken....We refer to the H.G. as a baby Christ simply b/c he has to be BORN in us via the seed of the bridegroom...Our new Birth..Thats y he has to know us Thus a new innerman...That New heart and new spirit...That Child of Promise via the seed of Christ the living word....ALL nations is indicative of everybody right here on this Beautiful earth.... Luke 17:21...Jesus is saying that the kingdom of God is gonna be with in you...He dwelleth with you but shall be with in you... John 14:17....Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Simply b/c mankind has to be married to Christ and bring forth fruit unto God... Romans 7:4 Which is a Baby Christ...That Child of Promise...Thats y Jesus has to be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thus the sower and his seed the wheat is a Baby Christ...Thats y Jesus was saying unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( the new birth ) you will in no wise enter there in...This was Jesus version of the Rapture which is in the SPIRIT right here on this Earth...As the Gift is the H.G.

Thanks Tammy. Those verses are often overlooked. A man recently referenced 2 Thess. 1,2 for a pre-trib rapture "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." but hasn't pondered verse 3 with the timing that believers will see the anitchrist.

"Let no man deceive you by any means:" for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

please remember me and my family in your prayers today please remember my daughter Jessica and her husband Adam

Excellent

Dear Latonyad, you don't want to forgive your sister anymore. But, Latonyad, it's not your will, but His that should be done, and He says in Matthew 18:21-22, "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." In other words, forgive without ceasing.

Goodmorning.

Have anyone heard from Brother Chris?

Hi Dixon,

I thought I'd offer an alternative view to consider. Most here seem to be using reasoning that if something is omitted then it didn't happen. I generally disagree with that logic. If 100% of everything was documented from the Bible days there would not be enough paper or ink to even document it all. The general assumption is that because no other women are mentioned that none others existed, but is that true?

There are many other things not mentioned either, such as Adam and Eve going to the bathroom or bathing or hobbies for how they generally spent their time, but isn't it possible they might have done these things and it just wasn't mentioned? If I wrote a book on a period of my life, I surely wouldn't include everything, but just what I consider to be the most important parts. And any omission wouldn't mean I would be deceiving anyone.

Maybe Adam and Eve ate of other trees too and did lots of other activities that weren't fully documented. With that in mind, because Adam and Eve were already banished from the Garden and relocated... and due to it mentioning the Land of Nod Genesis 4:16 with virtually no introduction or explanation, I think its possible there were other people created and placed in other regions. I'm just offering this as a possible explanation and not claiming this is what happened.

For those Christians that do not celebrate "Easter" due to the pagan overtones, how do you celebrate the Lord's resurrection? What are some of the things you do? I know as Gentile believers we don't celebrate Passover, but since Jesus became our Passover, is it okay to celebrate Passover in a Christian way? Thoughts?

This is the day that the Lord has made I shall rejoice and be glad in it. Thanks to All my prayer warriors it means alot to have others praying for you. I am kinda having a hard to forgiving this time. I always been the person that would forgive the other and move on . Well me and my sister we always tend to fall out but I am the bigger person. I feel that I need to stop doing that because I wasn't in wrong. But she will never apologize for what she has done. I feel like I am to nice and I'm tired of it

Dixon and Julius. In ( Genesis 1:26-27) God (created) man in his own image, in the image of God (created) he him; ((MALE AND FEMALE)) (created) he them. God (created) male AND female here. ( Gen 1:31) Tells us "And the evening and the morning were the sixth day" Now in ( Gen 2:1-4) v1 Tells us "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them" v2 Tells us "on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all the work which he had made" v4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. (All things were finished, and God rested on the seventh day) Now in the next verse, v5 we see ((there was NOT A MAN to till the ground)) in ( Gen 2:5-7) God had already (created) male and female on the sixth day, yet we are told in v5 there was (not a man) to till the ground. Now in v7 we see "And the LORD God (formed) man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. It wasn't until many verses later that God made Eve from one of Adam's ribs in ( Gen 2:20-23) v23 Tells us "she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man" Remember male and female were (created) the sixth day in ( Gen 1:26-28) Then God (formed) Adam of the dust of the ground after He rested the seventh day. And God (made) Eve from one of Adam's ribs so he would have a help meet. The man God (formed) from the dust of the ground (Adam) would be the bloodline that Jesus Christ would come through. There were many people on the earth by that time for Cain to find a wife from the sixth day (creation). Thats why the serpent, (Satan) beguiled Eve in an effort to corrupt that bloodline the Saviour of the world, (Jesus Christ) would come through. Read your KJB along with this and you should have no problem seeing the Truth. Truth matters. Blessings.

Hello, Julius

Genesis 5:4 says that Adam (with Eve) begat other sons and daughters besides Cain, Abel, and Seth. So, Cain must have married one of his younger sisters.