All Discussion PAGE 509

Dear God, Father in Heaven We pray according to Your will where Jesus Christ is our advocate. By the Kingdom of the Holy Spirit. We pray that Christina gets clarity. And that she should have something to do with her hands so that those outside cannot accuse her of laziness. Thessalonians 4:9-12

The Lord is not the one who tears you away from your gifts. He is rather the one who encourages, As long as the truth underlies it. Thank You Lord Jesus Christ for prayer answers. In Your Holy Name we can rest and work. Pray and work, Amen.

You have to make the decision yourself about what you want to work on with Christina. He is with you in everything. Even in the little things He is involved. So thank the Lord and rejoice. He knows about every strand of our hair, and every bird that falls to the ground. Should He then forget us who pray to Him? Praise Him in the depths of your soul. He is. Go out in what you believe in for Christina. James 1 chapter.

Stay close to the Word of God and be glad for God is with u and me and all other ppl who belive in Him. And normally we pray all the time. Love u in Christ.

Thanks brother S. Spencer for the fuller understanding of Revelation 3:10. Jimbob was quite correct on the word "keep" in that verse (as he wrote): "The word (keep) is #5083; it means to guard, (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon)". But as you pointed out, the whole phrase needs to be considered to get the meaning.

So, in this case, the Greek would read, "tereso ek" = 'to keep from'; (with 'ek', meaning, 'from out, out from among, from'). If we apply any other inference from this phrase, other than 'keeping or guarded from', then we have to ask the questions, 'how is the Lord Jesus going to guard the Church from (or even, during) this hour of trial upon the whole world?' Will He shelter, protect, or even move the Church to a distant place to avoid this trial (tribulation)? What then should the Church make of the warnings about not receiving the anti-Christ's mark, of various physical sufferings, even beheadings, if Christ has secured us ("kept us") from such testings? Then there arises a problem in understanding the position of the Church: pre, mid, or post tribulation, & the appearance of the anti-Christ & subsequent trials believers face or don't face. Only the pre-trib position adequately fits the meaning of this verse.

Actually, the problem I do have with these verses is, 'whatever happened to the Philadelphian Church to whom this promise was made?' Philadelphia, a well known city has long gone/in ruins, with only a handful of the taller building columns exposed above the ground, and the city, Alasehir, now built on top of it. This Church never realized the promise given to them, but the Church today all over the world can confidently hang onto it as we await the Lord's return.

I'm sorry S. Spencer,

I don't recall saying that there is not rapture in Scripture. I may have said that there is no pre-trib rapture plainly spoken of in the Scripture.

It is funny that you would say that the rapture can be pre or post trib. A while ago when I spoke of the rapture being described by Jesus in Matt. 24, you plainly said that that was not the rapture

I am kind of done with this discussion on the rapture, the millennium, and dispensationalism. People can take what I have said and check it to Scripture and think for themselves. Just as I do when someone else posts their thoughts.

I certainly do not expect people to accept what I say straight . I hope that what I post will stimulate of challenge someone to find out more for themselves.

Have a good night's sleep. It is late here again. I hope I can get to snooze level soon tonight.

Dear Wendy, I will certainly be praying for Kathy. Thank you for asking us to pray for her.

Me too! Thank you for the encouragement.

Or maybe, S. Spencer, you, too, need to be open to seriously considering another's viewpoint by holding it up to what Scripture actually says. I am open to that.

I have given concrete Scriptural citations that Jesus does not come before the Tribulation to rapture believers from 2 Thessalonians 2, Matt. 24 and elsewhere. I have given Scripture citations that warn against being deceived by anyone who says that his coming is at hand ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Luke 21:8. I gave Scripture citations concerning that Jesus coming will not be secret or invisible, but will be seen by everyone, with brightness, trumpet sounds, shout, etc. Can you believe these Scriptures? Or will you continue to hold onto your belief s in a secret, invisible, imminent pre-trib rapture?

I am willing to change my beliefs when Scripture plainly teaches a correction to my view. Are you?

I am not trying to be difficult here, but you seem to feel so free to discredit my views or approach, but I do not see a willingness on your part to truly consider what I have said and hold it up to Scripture.

I pray that we both will remain open to learning from one another as the Spirit leads us. I pray that we will apply our minds to studying Scripture in the best way we are able and not accuse another of being ignorant in one's understanding, as you have to me. Let tje love of Christ guide us and the fellowship of the Spirit always be foremost between us.

Marc,

I will certainly pray for your Mom now and also for your requests for yourself.

Thanks brother Jesse. I did suspect that you too were a 'dispensationalist', & like you, I had very little understanding of this term, except from a perusal of a rather large book of charts & diagrams back in the 80s, put together by one Clarence Larkin. So my knowledge of this was limited to those seven dispensational periods seen in the Bible (I wonder if the number 7 is significant here?), but I had no more instruction on this position. Thanks for your input.

i speak from the spirit though only can be heard from the spirit. i wonder being that god is a jealous of other images...is that why men grow jealous wjen we see our women look upon other men with fresh eyes do we grow weary...

Brother Chris,

Thank you for sharing this information on dispensationalism. Over the years I have heard the term but never took the time to research or study it out. It seems that this word has been tossed around quite frequently over the last three weeks. From what you have just shared, I suppose I also stand guilty along with you and brother Spencer.

My beliefs on this latest topic (Rapture) come from studying scripture, not from studying what dispensationalists teach and then choosing to agree because it fits what I've been taught, or what I want it to believe.

It's been said that there are so many holes in the pre-trib rapture, but I think the same can also be said of post-trib. There are at least three views on the timing of the rapture, and some say there is no rapture at all.

Brother, unless the Lord by His Spirit shows me otherwise, I stand with you on this one!

S. Spencer,

I have searched Scripture about the topic of whether the millennium will be on earth or in heaven.

In doing so, I find many verses in both the OT and NT that prophesy about Jesus reigning on the earth from Jerusalem. So I may be wrong in my initial viewpoint.

But also, since Revelation is Apocalyptic writing, there is usually lots of figurative language and symbolism involved in such type of writing in both the OT an NT.

For now, I will go with what you have said, that the millennium takes place on earth.

Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Pray as if your talking to someone but your talking with and to god ,just spill your heart out to him.

Urgent pray needed!! for my mom (Ada Avant) she just went to the emergency room 3/7/2023 not feeling well, she also has a drain coming out of her stomach after having an infection after her gallbladder removal. She scared that she may have to be cut on again, I been putting in prayer request for week or month now believing and having faith that my mother will be healed, but I guess the devil just get in the way. please pray that my mother doesn't have to be cut on anymore, please pray that (GOD) in (THE NAME OF JESUS) will (BLESS) her with a (SUPERNATURAL HEALING) in (ALL AREAS THROUGHOUT)) her body mind & soul. Thank you all for your prayers.

Hi Jimbob.

Matthew 24:37-42.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

How do you view this section of scripture? Rapture? Who's taken away? The righteous?

I say it's not a Rapture verse at all I believe it's judgment at the end of the age. And the elect here is Israel. Not the Church as some say.

Those taken away in the flood was those outside the ark.

We are told to watch and be ready.

Why?

So we can escape?

Escape what?

The Lords wrath right?

If we're not appointed to wrath there must be a way of escape.

So when do we escape? Pre-trib or Post?

So far either works, right?

The issue with the Post-trib view at this point is that it's not eminent. We know that there's seven years that has to go by.

I say eminent means he can come now.

And we escape because we're not appointed to wrath.

We're Children of the Light.

1 Peter 2:8.

We've been made ready by the blood of Christ.

God bless.

Dear friends pray to our Lord for the health of my causin Kathy Castaner Calderon to be free from stroke, aneurysm, migraine and any kind of deadly illness in her brain and heart, please pray to God to free her from those terrible headache that she suffers every day, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen

How do you know if you speak in tough is there any way I would like to kno

I'm not criticizing your belief Gigi,

It's a popular belief

Just understand that when dealing with such topics God didn't make it simple.

We have to do as Philip did to the Ethiopian Eunuch. Ge explained to him Jesus "By using the scripture not repetition or numbers.

It's just as easy to ask why and how do one come to his conclusion than say he is adding to scripture because maybe he's not.

God bless and good night.

Hi Jimbob.

You're not intruding at all.

This is not a bad topic, I'm just sorry I'm so behind on reading most of it. It makes us dig and learn as I believe Brother Chris said.

We don't have a lock on this topic,

I was just emphasizing to Gigi that whether right or wrong when we openly refuse ones view offer yours.

Maybe that person is wrong but you don't help them by keeping what you learned to yourself and refute their beliefs by other means.

Now concerning Revelation 3:10

You put the emphasis on "keep" or to "guard against." (Also Strongs).

I'm putting emphasis on "FROM" THE "HOUR" (season" or time.)

It doesn't say during the hour. It says from the hour or "season" or time.

But here is how it doesn't fit a post-trib viewpoint.

Some say we are to be brought through the tribulation for a time of testing. or persecution. If we're protected against it and kept in it.

How are we tested?

This temptation shall come upon "ALL THE WORLD", to try them that (DWELL) upon the earth.

Throughout scripture Gods people is not identified as earth dwellers.

You see this often in the OT those who dwell in the land as the opposition.

In Daniel 7:25 it says the Antichrist shall wear out the saints during this period. That's not the Church if we consider Revelation 3:10 as you see it.

Here's a unique picture of what might be a picture of the Rapture in the OT.

Isaiah 26:19-21 "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

COME, MY PEOPLE, ENTER THOU INTO THY CHAMBERS, AND SHUT THY DOORS ABOUT THEE: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST.

For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain".

thru

Isaiah 27:1.

God bless.

Pray for amy

Thank you David0920. After reading your comment, I decided to have a quick look at what 'dispensationalists' believe. I know that GiGi has shared on this some days ago, which I can't find now, but if what I have found defines a dispensationalist, then I probably fall into that category.

In broad terms, a dispensationalist believes in a literal understanding of Scripture (e.g. the 1000 years of Christ's rule being literal; Hell & the Lake of Fire being literal, etc.); that Israel & the Church are two distinct peoples of God, but of course, only saved & received by God when fully resting on the merits of the Cross; that seven dispensations are seen in the Bible (of Innocence, Conscience, Human Govt, Promise, Law, Grace, & the Millennium Kingdom: I can see this in the Word but wouldn't make it an essential for Bible knowledge or study); and lastly (but by no means without other aspects of this position not mentioned here), dispensationalists tend to be pre-millennial, pre-tribulational in their understanding of the Bible. I guess, on those grounds, it must make me a dispensationalist as well, though I'm sure from a more detailed study of this position, I might have contrary beliefs to aspects of it.

Gigi I should mention concerning Psalms 118:18-29 I should have said it PROBABLY parallels with the concept. As a double reference.

I may stand alone on that.

It doesn't make it right or wrong.

GB

Whisper, please pray and ask God to help you plead the blood of Jesus in your dream. As soon as the attacker comes say JESUS. Say His name! Plead the blood of Jesus over your home every night before bed. Anoint your doors and windows with oil praying over each one as you put oil . If you have any known or unknown sin in your life get it out! Ask God to show you if there's anything that displeases Him, to show you. Make sure you have no sexual sin or unforgiveness towards ANYONE.

Leave your Bible open on your bed and fall asleep reciting scripture. Play scripture while you sleep on your radio or cell phone.

Rebuke satan in JESUS NAME. Command him to leave your dreams and your house!

Take authority. Jesus. Blood.

I love the Lords prayer

This is not king james bible effective 1965.

Gigi.

I was responding to an earlier reply of yours when you said there's no rapture verse in the Bible.

I believe I gave you verse

1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"

I didn't say it was a dispensational view.

It's a rapture verse used by Post and Pre-trib groups.

The debate issue is when it happens not if!

And that don't define dispensational as you say it do.

We're all saved by one way. Christ!

No matter the time period.

However We're not gathered with Israel as a Nation.

Paul makes that clear in Romans.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness "IN PART" is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. ( That means temporarily Gigi )

Now here's a difficult verse that troubles most people.

Romans 11:26-27. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Paul is talking about his Kinsman of the flesh!

The Nation, when he take away their blindness.

Has the "Nation" turned to Christ? No.

Will they turn to Christ? Yes.

When? During the tribulation. "70 of Daniel"

THE TRIBULATION CENTERS AROUND ISRAEL.

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: IN THEIR AFFLICTION they will seek me early. Hosea 5:15.

THEIR OFFENCE IS REJECTING CHRIST!

He'll come when they call on him.

Matthew 23:39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This whole concept parallels

Psalms 118:18-29.

God bless.

S Spencer Not meaning to intrude here but it seems that the Rev.3:10 verse is not in context if one is to use it as a pre-tribulation rapture verse. Rev.3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will (keep) thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The word (keep) is #5083; it means to guard, (from lose or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon. It says nothing about being removed or taken away from anything as a protection, but as guarding, by keeping the eye upon. Rev.1:3 has the same meaning, lets look at that verse. Rev.1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and (keep) those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. The word (keep) in this verse has the same meaning. It would be taking this verse completely out of context also to say (keep) in this verse means taken out, or to be removed from. Many pre-trib believers use Rev.3:10 as a verse to prove they will be taken out before the tribulation. But as you can see here they are taking it completely out of context, like they do many other verses. Sorry if I intruded Spencer.

A necromancer is someone who practices the sorcery of communicating with the dead by conjuring their spirits, so as to know the future

An example would be the necromancer who lived at Endor. This is the woman King Saul went to when he wanted to summon Samuel the prophet (who by then had already died).

You can find this example in 1 Samuel 287-19

Moses knew Aaron and Miriam were his brother and sister.

Now, if they are Hebrew (which they are), and if Moses knows this (which he does), then the math adds up, doesn't it?!

Read attentively:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Romans 126-27

There is a prophecy in Malachi which says,

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:" - Malachi 45

So as Malachi says, Elijah had to come BEFORE Jesus comes.

But to the disciples, things don't add up, because how come Jesus is here before Elijah when it should be Elijah before Jesus; and therefore to clear their bewilderment, they had to ask him, "Why then say the Scribes that Elijah must first come?"

Jesus answers (as you read in verse 12) by telling them that indeed Elijah had already come and the people didn't even notice.

So, the question is, When did Elijah come? Or, In what way did Elijah come? Or, what does it mean, Elijah must first come?

The answer is written elsewhere, " thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John And he shall go before him IN THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIJAH, " - Luke 113, 17

So after Jesus answers them, they then understand what the Scribes meant.

That is why Matthew 1713 says, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." - Matthew 1713