All Discussion PAGE 544

I suppose, JRR, is how one understands Genesis 7:7,8,9,15. In verse 9, the inference is clearly to the animals that went into the Ark, even though of clean beasts, seven were taken (the question could be asked, 'why not six, why the odd number?'). Then in verse 15, we get the "unto Noah...two and two of all flesh" again. And those animals are again mentioned in the preceding verse. So were there other humans included with those animals? If so, shouldn't they be mentioned as well (maybe not by tribes or clans, but as homo sapiens), being more important than those in the 'animal' category? And if 1 Peter 3:20 tells us that "eight souls were saved by water", should we assume that if only humans were referred to, then why not these 'other' humans as well?

If some humans were not affected by the Flood & lived on, then it would be hard to accept that given Genesis 7:19 & the evidence of extinct sea life found at higher elevations. It seems that no part of the dry Earth was spared by this worldwide flood.

In my understanding, there were no other humans on board the Ark, apart from those mentioned. And all humans therefrom descended from Noah's sons. When giants appeared after that time, then there would be a reason for that, maybe a genetic aberration.

Hi S Spencer,

I need to apologize, I believe I am going around the context of Israel as the elect in Daniel, and Israel is the elect in Matthew 24. I agree that in Daniel 9, Daniel's people are Israel and not the Church. I took your posts as saying Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 are both on the end times. Sorry if I was off.

When Jesus came, He came only for the lost sheep of Israel, and after Pentecost, the apostles were still only going to the lost sheep of Israel.

If you could expand on the nation Israel being the elect in Matthew 24. I can reply to part two, but I feel I am missing something, and I am not addressing your context, if that makes sense.

God bless,

RLW

Dose Almighty God and Jesus hate homosexuals and homosexuality?

David:

I am aware that God's church rides the beast; and is a whore, and the firstborne are told to COME OUT OF HER.

I stopped going to a brick and mortar church long ago, when you go against "THERE TRADITION", they not so politely ask you to leave.

The church of OLD was the synagogue, a house built with man's hands, when the NEW was preached, a temple built without hands, that drove them out. It's no different today, most in the churches are still in THE STONING BUSINESS.

All this is the WORK'S of GOD, all things WORK TOGETHER for GOOD.

God Bless YOU!

The Bible certainly teaches that no one can come to Truth unless God opens their spiritual eyes. But it's very difficult for me to understand how anyone can read the Bible, believing that it is the Word of God, and not understand that Jesus was eternal God Himself. He was and is the the Lord Jesus Christ. He is Eternal God Himself. Along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

When we talk about the Godhead, the triune God, We are walking on very Holy ground. And even the Scriptures themselves reveal only A few aspects about God himself. How is it that there is only one God yet God reveals himself in three distinct persons? Our finite mind cannot wrap itself around that fully. But the Bible declares it is so. We believe it. Because it is the Word of God. And Jesus declares that He is the Word. And the creator of the universe. I and the Father are one. If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. If anyone thinks they really fully grasp this, think again. But it is absolutely so.

If Christ were not Eternal God, He could not have paid for the sins of all whom God planed to save.

Jesus is called the Son of God because as God He actually endured the wrath of God and died for the sins of those whom He has saved and was resurrected by God. Try to wrap your finite mind around that! But it is absolutely true because the Bible declares it.

David:

I'm not disagreeing with you, Mosses and the Prophets are all exact history; and you are right, inside that history is also prophecy, HIDDEN in parables and symbolism.

Some were physically destroyed in the Old; in the New, it's the carnal mind that has to be destroyed. If we don't come to truth, then we will see death, if truth prevails, then we will not see death.

Those that don't come to truth, will be raised back in their flesh, and judged by the ones that did come to truth, then they also will come to truth.

Isaiah 59:21 As for me (the Father) this is MY COVENANT with them (creation), saith the LORD, MY SPIRIT that is upon the (Jesus), and MY WORDS which I HAVE PUT in your mouth (Jesus), shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of THY SEED, nor out of the mouth of THY SEED'S SEED, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

God Bless YOU as HE brings his creation to TRUTH.

where is the scripture "this is the day that the lord hath made i will rejoice and be glad in it."

David:

I agree; the man of sin is Satan, and he is sitting in those DESOLATE houses, the temple of God, the Holy Place, he does't believe Christ is THE LIFE on that HOUSE.

I'm very familiar with the major and minor prophets, I study them every day, most days, all day long.

God bless YOU!

Hello what about 1st Peter chapter 3 verse 20 ?

Ruby,

I believe it can be shown that the "abomination of desolation", the "man of sin" is Satan himself. The Holy Place in Matt 24 is the corporate representation of God's kingdom beginning at Pentecost, that is the local churches and congregations, after Christ went to the cross. What Matt 24 is teaching is there will come a time when God's judgement would come upon the church, i.e. the local churches and congregations, where by God's plan Satan would be allowed to rule in the churches and God has abandoned the churches because, like National Israel, they have gone away from the True Gospel and the Bible is no longer the authority. And True believers are commanded to come out of the churches. This is the Great Tribulation.

Read Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and all of the minor profits. They talk about what happened to National Israel and Juda and are also talking about what has and is taking place in the churches and congregations of our day. If you go into any church today you will find some element of a do-it-yourself gospel where there is something we can do or must do to become saved... accept Christ, become baptized, make confession of faith, trust implicitly in our confessions... then you are safe and secure. They do not accept the Truth that salvation is 100% the work of God.

Very sad but true.

So again, Christ spoke in parables and without a parable spoke He not. The Bible is replete with historical events that God placed in the Bible that occurred exactly as described. But they are historical parables teaching some aspect of the Gospel and God's plan for mankind. The Book of Ruth is a tremendous example.... a beautiful historical love story but with Boaz being a figure of Christ and Ruth the Moabites, a cursed woman being a figure of every true believer that Christ has saved... and much more as each verse is dripping with the Gospel when we understand how God has used specific words and phrases as we compare scripture with scripture.

Hi S Spencer,

On part 1

Jesus knew what was going to happen and much of what He told the disciples was what was going to happen to them, to prepare them for what He just told them when the temple would be destroyed. Does part of this discourse apply to the future? Yes

Matt. 24:5-13 History and the Bible document that there were several men as false Messiahs, false prophets that deceived many and which convinced many and led them to revolt to liberate Jerusalem from Roman occupation. Josephus tells us that impostors drew great multitudes after them into the wilderness, and he mentions an Egyptian prophet. We see this in Acts 21:36-38.

We have Theudas in Acts 5:36 and Judas of Galilee in Acts 5:37-8 and Simon in Acts 8:9-11, and there was more. For us today many come in the name of Jesus saying, Jesus is Christ, but they deceive and make merchandise of people. We must not ignore the first thing He said after they asked Him "Take heed that no man deceive you."

There were many conflicts between the nations around Jerusalem and Rome was having wars that caused famine. Claudius invaded Britain in 46AD, there was a great famine in Syria. Rome took control over the temple along with the sacred treasury and there was a great famine in Jerusalem.

The Jews were having small scrimmages that led to the revolt in 66 AD. We see in the bible a famine was going on, in Acts 11:27-29 in 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Where Paul was collecting things for those in Jerusalem because they were starving. There were earthquakes in Rome, Pergamum, Laodicea, and Judea in the 50s and 60s.

We see what the Jews did to Peter and John and the first they killed was Steven and then most of them. and what Paul says about what they did in all the synagogues Acts 26:10-11. But enduring to the end the same shall be saved does not mean their flesh life would be saved.

Will cover more, hope I am making sense.

God bless,

RLW

Dear Country Jean,

Cont...

It is not accepted, in general, by those of the Reformed, Lutheran, or Anglican/Episcopalian denominations, as they are generally amillennialists.

Dispensational Premillennialism has gone through some revisions over the past 193 years. I suggest that people take the time to study this movement from both the angle of those who support it and those who give reasons they reject it as unbiblical. I have done this very thing over the past several months. Many people grew up with this teaching, so they do not question it. I understand that. For myself I was first introduced to it in my 20's and leaned towards that because I did not have resources to really study it at that time. But after about 10 years, I realized that this does not seem to fit Scripture, so I instead fellowshipped in churches that did not teach it.

And now, 20 years after that, I have taken the time to really investigate it. I wanted to know if this theory has any merit according to Scripture. So I have spent the past few months doing so. I read from both sides, pro and con with my Bible in hand. There are just too many aspects of this theory that I cannot support it. But each person should do their due diligence to test this theory with openness and prayerfulness. If I had this information 40 years ago, I would not have been taken in by the little I knew of it.



Country Jean, I am glad you brought this up. We should always be seekers of the truth in God's Word and be wary of any "new" teachings, revelations, etc. that become the "new ideas" for our faith. Just because something is new does not, in itself, make it incorrect, but there is long-standing consistent teachings across the church age that should also be examined before one takes the teaching of another. The witness of those in the church past are just as valid as any teachings of any person today. Those from the past had the Bible, just like us, to check their thinking against the revealed Word.

I struggle with this idea too . I can kind of see where it comes from but there are so many other scriptures that dispel that belief . Here are just some 1st Corinthians chapter 15 verses 23-28 and 2nd Corinthians chapter 1 verse 3 and 2nd Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4 and 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 verse 18+19 and 1st Timothy chapter 2 verse 5 and Hebrews chapter 2 verses 6-10 and Hebrews chapter 5 verses 1-19 . There are more but those are the ones I think of straight away . So I respect what others think but I'm not 100 per cent convinced myself . I suppose I just need to keep studying .

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for explaining.

I didn't say you said it was unbiblical or inaccurate. I was stating that historically they married that way and some perform that way today.

And all the details models the way we're espoused to Christ.

Whar they perform today is similar because this has been done in ancient times.

One thing they do different is the groom veils the bride to protect them from what happened with Rachel and Leah.

You see portions of this commitment in Jacob, Isaac, and Joseph and Mary.

It was a common custom for the bride to join the groom's father's household, rather than the groom and the bride establishing their own household. So, if the bride and groom were of a marriageable age, the groom would return to his father's house after the betrothal to prepare a bridal chamber. This process traditionally took a year or more (the length of time being dictated by the groom's father). When the place was complete, the groom would return and fetch his bride. The bride would not know the day or hour of her husband-to-be's return, so the groom's arrival was usually announced with a trumpet call and a shout so the bride had some forewarning.

This is what they continue to do and yes it models the rapture.

More on this later.

God bless.

I do not recall reading anywhere in scripture that the giants were actually sinful people. I was just saying that not all died in flood because they were on earth before and after the flood . The Nephilim were the children of the relations between fallen angels and the daughters of men.

Genesis 7 I understand it to say two of all flesh( flesh meaning human/man/races) then it says the birds and insects.

Dear Jean,

I agree with you. The pre-tribulation rapture theory that was thought up in the early 1800, especially by John. Nelson Darby, didn't square with the millennial reign of Christ for a 1000 if the church was raptured out before the Tribulation. So, Darby had to come up with the ideas of two plans of God for two groups of people, Jews and Gentiles. Thus we get the teaching that the Jews are separated from the Church. Then this teaching led to the creation of "Dispensations" in order to interpret Scripture in a way that keeps the Jews and Christians separate.

This teaching was first held and taught among the Plymouth Brethren, of which Darby was one of the founding members. This sect began Ireland and then moved to Plymouth, England where it began to grow in numbers. It has always been a very small sect where each fellowship was independent of others. It has been riddled with split after split after split since its inception with much dissension and angst between groups. Under Darby, one faction became a separatist group. And then this faction split again and again up to present day. The separatist faction is very strict about not mingling with those outside the group and have many cult-like practices.

Dispensational premillennialism with the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture began to spread when Darby and other founders began to travel outside of the U.K. This theory took off in the U.S. with the printing of the Scofield Bible that included footnotes that reflected dispensational premillennialist teachings. Soon, this theory spread all over the U.S. in congregations outside of the Plymouth Brethren until it became the prevailing theory among Protestantism.

This theory came into existence in this setting. It is not a theory that has been a long-standing teaching of the church over the centuries. It differs from what is called "historical premillennialism" in significant ways.

Cont....

Let me ramble a bit about Rev 22:8...When John wanted to fall down and worship the Christ the angel says See thou do it not...Now look at v Rev 22:11 He that is filthy let him be filthy still.. thats the Tare satan's seed...He that is righteous let him be righteouns still... he that is holy let him be holy still...This is the wheat Christ seed a baby Christ...They are engaged in warfare...This is the great war in heaven As in Rev 12...The dragon and the woman and her Child ....Violence in heaven...This is when Jesus is in prison and we visit him....naked and we clothe him....sick etc....But we cannot worship him now lest satan gets the glory...They are locked in battle together...The Tare has to remain filthy....And the wheat, Christ seed has to remain holy....we must endure unto the end which is the time when the Tares are gathered up and burned....But the wheat to his barn the Kingdom...But he cannot be worshipped at this time.... Ecc. 4:13....Better is a wise Child then an old and foolish king that will be no more be admonished...For out of prison he cometh to reign...Which is the manchild of Rev 12 that is gonna rule all nations...I was in prison and sick and you visited me...But this scenario is not a time to worship him...Simply b/c he is engaged with that awful TARE SATAN

But when Jesus is in prison and hungry and sick is not a time to Worship him...Thats when he is engaged with the Tares satans seed in this great warfare...Thats y the angel said See thou do it not...The right time is when he is in his Kingdom....After the woman gives birth... Rev 12:10 ..Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....

When saw we thee in prison or sick and visited you....As you have done it to one of the least of my brethren you have done it unto Me.....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME....Which is the H.G that Child of Promise...The Elect and Israel of God...Christ seed the living word...ok lemme go

Can anyone dispute the fact, that the "PIT of FIRE" is Nuclear Fire? If not so, then he who thinks he knows the Bible, does not know the DEVIL!!

WHAT IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION spoken of by Daniel

Matthew 24:15 Therefore when YOU SEE the abomination of desolation; spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the HOLY PLACE (whosoever readeth, let him understand).

You are the HOLY PLACE, the temple of GOD.

Christ was talking to those around him, so this APPLIED to them, as well as us, it was AT HAND, near to be reality.

Daniel 12:11 From the time the daily sacrifice (of animals) shall be TAKEN AWAY, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, there shall be one thousand three hundred and thirty five days.

What is this 1,335 days? It's the changing of the COVENANTS, Christ coming as sinful flesh, and defeating

death; LIFE by Spirit, not blood.

Before the resurrection; LIFE was in the BLOOD, after the resurrecting, LIFE was from the Spirit.

Matthew 23:38 Behold your HOUSE is left unto you DESOLATE.

Man is THE HOUSE, now desolate without INHABITANT, it died on the cross.

Revelation 18:19 .....for in ONE HOUR (MAN, sinful fleshes death on the cross) is she made DESOLATE.

Revelation 17:17 ...and SHALL MAKE HER DESOLATE AND NAKED ..

Psalms 69:25 Let their habitation (house) be DESOLATE; and NONE dwell in their tents.

Isaiah 5:9 ...of a truth many houses shall be desolate ....

Are you DESOLATE; or has the Spirit of LIFE COME TO YOU?

Romans 8:2 For the LAW of the SPIRIT OF LIFE in Christ Jesus, has made us FREE from the LAW of sin and death.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose house you are ...

You died on the cross; and become DESOLATE, no LIFE, you were raised a body, a new creation, life no longer of the blood; but OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST, by the Spirit of our Father.

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery .....Christ in you ....

God Bless YOU!

Skiman,

They could be basing their claim on any one of the following pieces of scripture:

John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-8, Psalm 45:6.

The Bible tells us that we are to worship God alone, and yet Jesus received worship and never rebuked anyone who worshipped Him. We see evidence of this in Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, John 9:35-38, Hebrews 1:6.

Isaiah 44:6 reads, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me."

In Rev 1:17, it says "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as a dead man." In Daniel 10:8-9, Daniel did the same thing. When he saw this vision of Christ, he fell down as he was dead. In Ezekiel 1:28, Ezekiel sees the vision and he falls down as a dead man. It goes on to say "Fear not; I am the first and the last: (the designation of God, found in Isaiah 41:4, and Isaiah 48:12).

In Revelation 1:18, it says I am He that lives, and this is another designation of God found in Psalm 84:2, and Joshua 3:10.

I am He that lives. God presents Himself to the Jews as the living God. He says I am He that lives, and was dead; literally, and became dead, and behold, I am living forevermore, His resurrection, His eternalness.

And then it reads, Amen; and I have the keys of hell and of death. Keys are a symbol of authority. Those who were in charge of the temple had the keys to the temple. We are told later on that the Lord (Jesus) will be in control of hell and death.

In Matthew 16:15, Jesus asks His disciples who do you say I am? Peter had the perfect answer. Peter said "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Peter was Jewish. The phrase "Son of the living God" from a Hebrew standpoint is a phrase used for God. To a Jew, claiming to be the Son of God was considered blasphemy, but that was Peter's response to who Jesus was

God I am tired of going through what I am going through please help me I can't take it anymore please help Me I really need your help

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I need all the prayer warriors for my daughter who is frightening anxiety. That God showers her with peace of mind and comfort. That he wipes the anxiety away and the enemy trying to win her happiness away. Please pray that she gets lifted and feels the love of Jesus. Thank you so much

Because there is no difference between Jew or gentile why is so much teaching to use rapture to say otherwise? We are all one in Christ. Jesus said we are not of this world. This is not His kingdom. He is ruling seated now. His work is finished as ours will at His return. We seek the new not the end of this one. Much deception leads and blinds Gods truth to those seeking by this twisting of plain truth. And churches seek to tickle ears to gain collections of support over Gods truth. Where are the real believers today?

Hello Jimbob,

I stand with what I said concerning thoughts. Anything one posts that is not the words of Scripture are one's own thoughts . To think otherwise is disingenuous, in my opinion. I do check out the Scriptures cited and reflect on it along with the thoughts posted by the poster. As to being more open to instruction, I agree! I have learned a great deal since entering this forum over a year ago. However, I do think that there are some tenets taught in Scripture that we can be sure of and be convinced are true. We should have confidence in the Holy Spirit to confirm matters of faith in us.

One-Eighty

I meant to say, "God cannot be Knowledge"

One Eighty

Cont....

yet even more so since He is God incarnated in perfect humanity. He remains God and man eternally, but was not God and man from eternity pre-creation.

What is created does not need to be exactly like its creator. By simple reason, we can know that what is created has a starting point after the one creating it. This happens when we create things, such as what I am typing right now or when we create a new product. I say this by illustration with this caveat, we are not God. When God created, He created all things from nothing, bringing into existence what did not formerly exist. Therefore, what is created is not eternal like Himself, nor does what He created contain His divine essence (which cannot be communicate or created), nor is what He created exactly like Himself, because He is the only true God. Nothing created can be compared to Him. When He created all things they were created as good as a created thing can be. So God's work in creation was perfectly done. Only God is truly perfect. Creation was changed with the entrance of sin (not doing what is good).

And I will end with saying that I agree with your advice for me to take my own advice, which I do.

Thanks for such a thoughtful response. Look forward to talking with you again.

Good morning again One Eighty-

I hope you do not mind me continuing this discussion today.

In reference to "something outside of God" I was not saying that you conveyed this idea in any of your posts. I was saying that because God is self-sufficient, not needing anything outside of Himself to exist or be complete. Knowledge of any kind concerning the universe or history is knowledge that is dependent on the creation to exist. Therefore, cannot be Knowledge. Likewise, the universe is not a part of God. he created it, therefore it has not eternally been in existence, but He has been. God cannot be anything that is created or non-eternal.

When you say that "these things do not exist at all" you are denying the actual, physical existence of matter and created things. This is what Christian Science teaches (Christian Science is an aberrant cult) as well as some New Age teachings and Eastern pagan religions

As to the illustration of light and darkness. Darkness is a deprivation of light. So, yes it is the negative of light, which does actually exist because it is made of photons and wave energy. It is a physical reality. God created it. Similarly sin is a deprivation of good. So sin has no existence of its own, but good does because God is good and He also created good things. When He created all things visible and invisible, He did create it "good" according to His character. Imperfection came when sin entered into His creation through Satan and his fallen angels and through Adam and Eve.

God created us as sensory beings who can use our five senses to physically observe and touch what God has created. We have physical bodies that employ these senses in living every minute. Same is true with animals. Angels do not have physical bodies so they would experience God's creation in a different manner that we do not know. God is Spirit so He does not sense like we do, except, now that Jesus became man, He senses as we do,....

My mother (Ada Avant) had went through a procedure at the hospital today, it looking good but they said she may need another procedure, please pray that she won't need another procedure. Please pray that (GOD) in (THE NAME OF JESUS) will (BLESS) her with complete (HEALING) in all areas of her body mind & soul. Thank you all for your prayers.

Hey Ronald.

Part 2.

I ended my last reply a little to soon.

By way of review I would like to remind us the context and topic.

1st the title of this post. ISRAEL GODS ELECT.

2nd The elect mentioned in Matthew 24 is Israel not the Church.

3rd The focus on Daniel 9 and Matthew 24 is Israel. Thanks.

In my last post I placed emphasis on the Desciples asking for "signs" of his coming to restore the kingdom and emphasis on the answer the Lord gave them.

(He gave them what they asked for.)

"The signs".

In Acts 1:6 they asked him directly "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Notice; They wasn't asking for signs this time. ( He has left them and come back and still no Kingdom!)

He answered them in vs 7.

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

vs 8 he puts them to work building on the foundation he has laid by his death and resurrection. "Church things, Not kingdom.

We're in the interval several days after the 69th week when he was presented as king riding on a donkey. and then crucified as Daniel 9:26 presents.

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"

As I mentioned earlier Jesus points the Desciples to Daniel 9:27 as a sign in Matthew 24:15.

I will leave off here for now until this weekend.

Go's bless

Amazing to know that GOD will always be there no matter what and exalts the righteous And hears us and will meet our needs if we just ask of him can I get an AMEN