All Discussion PAGE 6

Kevin,

Your prayers and desires for the rescue and reformation of the Catholic church is a common action of those who have left this denomination. Goo for you. We should be praying for those who call themselves Christian yet teach wrongly concerning the gospel concerning salvation. I agree with you in your prayers for this sect.

Jesse, well said, it is the Spirit that baptizes us and indwells us.

One thing, the Lutherans do not sprinkle-they pour water over the head of the one being baptized three times saying the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father (pour water) and the Son (pour water) and of the Holy spirit (pour water). I think this is the way that Episcopalians baptize, Catholics, and other "non-immersers" I don't know who sprinkles.

But in any case, our baptism is our testament of what God has done in us through His

Spirit to unify us with Christ and the church.

Tdianne,

(Part 3):

The Jews had no idea why they immersed 3 times for their baptism. But after Messiah came, and when Messiah gave the believing Jews the commission to go out and preach the gospel to the Gentiles, He said, baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, three times for the Trinity. Very interesting background!

By now, you might be thinking I really haven't answered your question. Well, when I think of true baptism, I think of the ministry of Jesus Christ. According to scripture, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Lord's ministry. Baptism means two things, cleansing and identification.

When Christ comes into my life, I am cleansed because He sends His Spirit into my life. Jesus' ministry was to baptize people with the Holy Spirit, not water baptism. The qualification for belonging to Christ isn't what I experience in the past, nor what my decision in the past was, but rather it is based on the presence of Christ in me.

God's Spirit in me is the guarantee that I belong to the Lord. Water baptism comes after salvation. True baptism is when Jesus baptizes us with His Spirit. Is there a right way and wrong way to be water baptized. That's something each individual should decide for themselves. It's between them and the Lord. I say full immersion because that's the way the early church did it!

Blessings to you!

Husband and i need prayer for health issues and finances...

A miracle

Touch & agree for healing in my lungs

My son and his wife are being attacked constantly by evil it's destroying their relationship they need healing finances and love AMEN. Our God sent my son and family to another state for his purpose AMEN

Lord, please help me find and build relationships that are for me. Help me make a new wine skin for new blessings, and help me heal and grow in holy ways so that I can receive and hold them. Amen

Please pray that my foot will be healed of a terrible fungus that I have had to deal with for many years. And Please pray that I and my ex husband can quit smoking.

And, please pray for Lee to stop drinking alcohol.

And, please pray for my whole family.

God/Jesus can heal us...I do believe.

Asking prayers for me to get all the finances that is owed me from a job that I am leaving this week, that my paid vacation days and also 401 k and investments will be issued to me without any excuses or opposition in Jesus Name, Amen!!

Please pray that God would heal me of years of insomnia. I'm so exhausted and almost never get a good night's sleep.

Pray for my job situation.(New hire, not on schedule,been a week)My depression, and my Thank you!

I am struggling to find 116.00 for my automatic payment which is due today . Going through a hard time due to reduced a hours for radiation treatments. We also are low on food and my girlfriend suffers from M.S. prayers are needed urgently

To find genuine and true love and happiness. For strength and peace. To have a great personal relationship with Jesus Christ. To find a church home. To find good friends who trust and believe in Jesus Christ. People who I am equally yoked with. For children. For my fiance and a blessed marriage.

Id like prayers for my mom, she had a stroke in January that forced her to quit working, I'd also like to lift my dad up in prayer he is getting over pneumonia and has injuries his back. I ask that all of you lift my mom ( Margie ) and my dad ( Tom ) up in prayers. They haven't been working, at this time there isn't an income and my mom has applied for social Secuirty, my dad still has a few years to qualify but he needs help and prayers just as much as my mommy.

Please pray for my broken heart and for God to bring me a husband. I'm so lonely. I can't take anymore. I just got out of relationship with someone for three years and I still love him, but he doesn't love Jesus. Please pray for his salvation and deliverance His name is Michael Dorsey Jr.

Having a few health issues just now, and a lot of pain

Thank you for your prayers

Please pray that our house will sell and God will open doors for us to find a new place. We have neighbors that harasse us with their loud music and no one will make them stop. So we are trying to sell our home and move . Also pray these people will get convicted of what they are doing and come to know Jesus. God bless .

Tdianne,

(Part 2):

Now, when we get into the New Testament, we learn about the ministry of John the Baptist known as Yochanan ha Matbil, John the baptizer. The immerser is the literal translation from the Greek.

Also, John's baptism is different from Christian baptism. John's baptism only had to do with the Hebrew or Jewish people. They had to come down and be baptized by John to show their repentance in order to receive the Messiah. Baptism amongst the Jewish people meant change. Anything that was a major change in their life, they had a baptism for it.

Also, something very interesting about Jewish baptism is that the Jews, they immerse. It wasn't until around 1300 A.D. that the Catholic Church began sprinkling. Around 1600 is when the Lutheran group, who eventually became the Lutherans, began to use sprinkling. The Jews used immersion. Everything had to be immersed and you had to be immersed three times. Even to this day the Jews immerse three times in their baptism.

Today, the reason why many immerse once is because Constantine decided around 313 AD to change it from three times to one. He hated the Jews, so whatever the Jews did, he changed it. He did this just to get back at the Jews. So, Constantine says the Jews dunk three times, so we are going to dunk once! And that is where we got our baptism today.

Hello Tdianne,

(Part 1):

I would like to share my thoughts concerning your question. You ask about a true baptism. What is a true baptism? What does that even mean? If we are only speaking of water baptism, there are so many different beliefs on water baptism in the church today. Some sprinkle, some immerse, some dunk once, and some dunk three times. Some baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and some say the only valid baptism is in "Jesus' name only." So, where does that leave us? It leaves us "scratching our heads" and asking ourselves which one is the correct way?

Before I go any further, I just want to say that whatever way a person chooses to be water baptized is up to them and the Lord. I myself believe it should be by full immersion as it was in the early church. But this is just my belief and please allow me to explain why I believe this way.

If I go all the way back to the book of Exodus, I see that baptism began with Moses. Now the person who was doing the baptizing, he wouldn't touch anybody. He's just the witness. Baptizing in those days was that you go under yourself and come up yourself. The witness is just there to say you didn't make it because some part of your body didn't go completely under the water. It could have been a person's ear or maybe their hair was not under the water. The witness would be there to make sure they went all the way under the water. If not, they had to do it all over.

Hello how are you doing, please pray that God will deliver me from the enemy and all of his demons ,my family and friends get saved and pray for God will in my life

Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD." 2 Kings 20:5

Father, you healed Hezekiah in the ancient time. Heal all those people who write these prayers.

Heal me of my wounds, stop the way against harm, loss, calamity, for all them who call on the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, through the only Mediator, Healer, and Saviour Jesus Christ, Amen.

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the TRADITIONS which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2 15.

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the TRADITION which he received of us."

God of my father, i said I would forsake the Catholic church. But now I beseech thee to save the catholic church and not destroy it.

How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together."

"I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." Hosea 11: 8,9

"Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found." Hosea 14: 8.

These are my petitions for the Catholic church, Lord Jesus Christ,

that you be their only Mediator, the only name that Catholic Christians pray in.

God of my father, save the Christian traditions, save the Catholic church, save Israel, save them and us for thy pardon's sake,

for thy mercies' sake.

God, save thy people Israel in like manner, that they know their true and only Messiah Jesus Christ, and be safeguarded through Him and His forgiveness.

I still need you to be the one that heals me, God of our fathers, stop the way against what hurts, and stop the way against what i fear. Heal my wounds just enough to get me out of harm's way, enough to make me functional again.

I beg to The Lord our God that I be not hospitalized but healed by Him who has Almighty power, through the merits of Our Saviour and Healer Jesus Christ.

Daniel 2:40-49

40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall BREAK IN PIECES and CONSUME all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.

49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Get ready

Kindly pray for me to meet a like life partner.

Conclusions for now on assurance of salvation and "eternal security".

I have gone on for some length now on an attempt to best explain the doctrines of grace as to Predestination along with our responsibility to respond to the Lord's promptings at every stage; from His initial calling to us to be saved to our deathbed.

It is clear that sin can affect us and even destroy our witness and end our life prematurely; but someone truly saved; although making it as though through the fire will not LOSE their salvation.

As to assurance of salvation we have understanding with the MIND of Christ ( 1 Cor. 2:16); thus just as natural man knows and understands that he exists and is conscious of the world around him; a true believer is aware of the Lord living in him as His sheep hear His voice and know Him and will not follow another ( John 10:27-28).

There are warnings in scripture as pertaining to those who would claim miracles in Christ's name and yet aren't saved. Surely Judas Iscariot would be one example of this. For someone who is out for themselves it doesn't matter to them whether it is God or the Devil who is making these supernatural phenomenon occur. It brings money; prestige; influence etc to those who are propegating falsehood (megachurch type persona especially) and naturally the goats want to rake in the financial benefits (decieving and being decieved ( 2 Tim. 3:13). This is more than the case of the Corinthians who were in disorder utilizing spiritual gifts for if we read carefully it was not for false manifestations or for the gifts themselves that they were reprimanded.

Hopefully this series of postings brings encouragement to someone. Doctrine matters; but indeed it is the case that the more we know the more questions can seem to arise. The truth is we can't totally understand the Lord or His truths. We can take confidence in God's covenants as He never breaks them and in that mindset know that a true believer has passed from death to life

Further insights on my last hypothesis

I am trying with this subject not to go to the extreme of saying that anything we do can save ourselves. What I will say is that what we do can bring us into condemnation at least until He truly lives within us; and we are truly saved. I will also state that EVERY step to salvation is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Even hearing the message which has the potential to bring someone to salvation is confined to this life; we don't get any second chances after we die.

We all start out in this life hearing the Gospel message and responding one way or another. We have to ask how the Spirit works in each part of the process. I will state that scripture seems to make it clear that even if we don't understand the mysteries of the church and how the Spirit indwells someone who is a believer prior to salvation no one in hell from all scripture we see on the subject is there without sins convicting their consciences in this life. Hearing the Word causes a reaction for anyone hearing it; whether believing or rejecting it. One can come to Christ after hearing the Word multiple times (as I did) but the person once they hear it and understand in their minds cannot say they are unaware of the basic truths of the Gospel; that is if presented correctly. I believe that true repentance only comes from the Lord but as 2 Corinthians 7:10 states that repentance leads TO salvation (see also 2 Timothy 2:25 on God GRANTING repentance). Logically; a person must HEAR the word; then have true repentance and then act on it. I would argue at that stage repentance first involves a DESIRE then definite ACTION to turn away from sin; and more importantly our former LIFESTYLE of sin. Also; a true believer continues in the faith until the end; but for some that involves God having to severely discipline a person; and as Corinthians states; some have "fallen asleep" taking communion unworthily; others are given over to Satan but still saved.

Giannis

part 2.

Just to finish up my thought. If someone who was baptized as an infant grows up believing in Jesus and knows the truth about how they are saved through Him, as I was the case for me, do not need to be rebaptized, but can if they wish. Someone who was baptized as an infant who grew up in faith and departs from the faith, they may wish to be re-baptized when they return to the Lord. It isn't baptism that is the heart of the matter, but regeneration and confession of one's faith in Jesus as Savior that is most important. How God brings that about in each person may differ in areas of: age at which one consciously believes the gospel, church practices chosen by one's parents when one was an infant or a child, etc,

I am glad I was baptized as an infant by parents who believed that God does work in and through baptism of their children, because whatever is not of faith is not valid. God honors the concern for their childrens' salvation and intention to bring them up in the faith. The Holy Spirit works in the lives of children baptized young to keep them growing in faith He provides.

Salvation is all of God and not of man, so we should have peace about the means of baptism, trusting God loves all He draws to Him whether from infancy and chlldhood or later as teens or adults. We can acknowledge that God is working out His will in the lives of such and know that He continues His work of shaping believers over time.

Hello Giannis, I do agree with you that baptism should be by immersion most of the time, But in the years following the apostles in the early second century, there were allowances made for baptizing people when deeper water was not available. Unfortunately, over the centuries, baptism by full immersion was slowly fazed out to the point that sprinkling became the norm over immersion. The Greek word for baptism, as you said does mean to immerse. During the reformation years, the anabaptists began to reinstitute full immersion for baptism. The problem arose in their declaring that only those fully immersed in "believer's baptism" were truly baptized validly. Therefore meaning that all who had been baptized by sprinkling and/or as infants and children were not validly baptized and so needed to be rebaptized. This stance cause a great deal of division within the reformation church.

I wish that in today's churches that baptism by immersion was the norm, but this is not the case and I am not one to demand as being invalid any of the baptisms that occurred in ways that differ from the anabaptists then and of today. The normal ways that the apostles baptized and celebrated the Lord's Supper have slowly changed over the early centuries to the point that we do not know how they really performed these ordinances. So, I think the important thing is that after one is converted that they should seek to be baptized as a profession and witness to the saving work of the Holy Spirt inn regeneration and of Jesus on the cross, and of the Father who draws us to Christ. Anyone who is old enough to be aware of their conversion to Christ can make the choice to be baptized. But many people die after conversion and before they were baptized and that does not exclude them from the kingdom of God. Also, those who were baptized as infants and come to understand their conversion do not need to be re-baptized as the anabaptists insist. They can if they wish. see part 2

Hi Chris: You are right and I sincerely apologize. I did mean it that way and I shouldn't have said that. So I hope you will forgive me and I'll keep trying, through the Lord, to do better in my comments. :( God Bless :)