All Discussion PAGE 686

Can I read these extra chapters in NKJV

Yes Lord touch and strengthen our brother Ruben. Please bless him abundantly Lord.

Prayed for you. God bless you.

Prayed for these this morning.

I'd like to add;

Mason and his family (Who lost his grandma awhile back)

Kent Bass

I'm praying over your request Elizabeth.

I pray Lord use this for Your glory and help Jeremy to grow in grace for Your service.

Praying for you both this morning.

Praying for you this morning.

Please pray that I have energy strength protection favor do an excellent job it's not busy at work today and tonight and I can go to the store a few times ijnip amen

The lost art of biblical argument (2)

If on some point you either misunderstand them or disagree with them . You stop and face each other and either get the misunderstanding resolved or come into agreement and carry on or if impossible you part company .

Paul is not an easy man to follow ,but we are in good company because Peter found somethings " hard to understand" .

Nevertheless what did Paul speak of those ministers to the church are to do?

Perfect the body " till we all come to a unity of THE faith"

To the same understanding ,of the same mind not his or mine or yours but Christs . " Let this mind be in you as it was in christ.

Not blindly ( without understanding) following the blind but as the Holy Spirit leads them so He leads you for did not Paul say " be ye followers of me even as I am of Christ "?

We have too many of Gods people blindly following they know not who or what who not only are hirelings but make " merchandise of Gods people"

Is it not written that if the Holy Spirit dwells in you ," you have no need of any to teach you" some then say ' well I have the Holy Spirit your not teaching me!. But that is not so. For has not zGod seen fit to give " teachers" to the church? Pray for them for they will have to answer to Almighty God how they have and what they have taught .

But it does mean that even as the Spirit of truth has borne witness with their spirit that they are now the children of zGod if so be that is the case . Then He the Spirit of truth will bare witness to the truth as it is also spoken in Christ .

Or not as the case may be . Thus by Ora time we learn to discern good from evil.

It is not then the blind leading the blind but the Holy Spirit leading us all .

For is it not written by John that if any be of God they will receive my words"?

We are not meant to blindly follow anyone . Least of all politicians and self appointed religious leaders .

Nor indeed to blindly follow true men of God .

Greetings, Mmathapeio! Two points:

1. If you have taken Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit-- Ephesians 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," You see, if you and your children each have earnestly asked Jesus to save you, He has, point blank and period, without the need to continuously pray for salvation.

2. If you and each one of your children individually has not asked Jesus to forgive his or her sins, now is the time to ask.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Paul and Silas's jailer asked them in ACTS 16:30 ..."Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Their answer was as simple as this in ACTS 16:31 ..."Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..." Simple as that.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.- Romans 10:9-13.

The lost art of Biblical argument .(1)

The finest exponent of this is Paul the beloved Apostle .

The finest examples of it are the letters to the Romans and Hebrews .

In one of the UK newspapers they regularly publish the findings of the Appeal courts judgements .

I'm no lawyer but what they do is state the case which is up for appeal and then argue line line upon line step each following step till they reach their conclusion, A trained mind can follow the argument and if the argument is sound will reach the same conclusion . Thus Justice is seen or understood to be done by all .

But if the argument is not sound or has some fault in it then there may well be grounds for an appeal for you cannot reach the conclusion (whatever it is) if the steps do not properly follow the other ,

For you must start with the truth and with each step speak the truth and by such means you can ,if you follow the argument arrive at the truth . And the appeal is dismissed or upheld in law.

Paul in both those letters speaking primarily to Gentiles and Jews is seeking to prove some thing. To the Jews that Jesus was and is the promised messiah among other things .

To the Gentiles concerning the Law among other things and proving both Jew and gentile are both sold unto sin and the answer fir both .There is much more but what he is doing is arguing his case going from step to step climbing a mountain and as everyone does ,he stops for a rest and like everyone does looks back and sees where he has come thus far and says " therefore " in the light of all that has been said so far " count yourself dead to sin.." let's that sink in and continues the climb stopping here or there for the same reasons.

"How can two walk together unless they agree"? If anyone has ever had a serious conversation with their father or someone they respect you walk . Not looking at one another but often with heads down as you listen carefully to each other and considering what they say .

alex1939...Rev.22:4...James be of a good cheer, you are involved in a warfare with the Tare satans seed...But Jesus has sowed a good seed in you which is the wheat...And they are at war...The Kingdom of God sufferes violence...Its Kingdom against Kingdom the wheat and the Tares are at war...Remember the Woman and the dragon are at war in Rev 12:5...Satan wants to kill the woman and her Child the manchild which is the wheat the H.G. that child of promise that has come to her from that good seed the word.

.....Rememeber Paul went thru the same thing saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...With my mind i serve the wheat the H.G. I serve the law of God..but with my flesh the law of sin the tare ... Romans 7:23 I see another law in my members waring against my mind bringing me unto captivity to the law of sin that is in my members...Paul was at war with the Tare satans seed. Remember Jesus said when he sows that good seed the wheat...satan will come and sows the bad seed that Tare then war rages with in us simply the Kingdom is gonna be with in us..Paul said oh wretched man that i am..But Paul says if i do something I donot consent unto its not I that does it but sin that dwells in me..But No condemnation to them in Christ Jesus

.....Thats y Jesus says we must endure to the end when the Tares are burned from our minds and the wheat the H.G. is free and gathered to his barn the Kingdom..Rev.22:11 He that is unjust let him be unjust still he that is filthy let him be filthy still thats the Tare in our minds satans seed....But he that is righteous let him be righteousness still, He that is Holy let him be Holy still thats the H.G. the wheat Jesus seed within us in this war raging in our minds...Wheat and the Tares make us 2 ppl but 1 will be taken and 1 will be left...The 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been bornagain of that good seed but the TARES make him 2 ppl..Thats y Jesus said we must endure to the end which is the harvest.1 taken and 1 left..Gbu.

Yes , me too . I have mostly been reading the old comments , I'm about two years ago at the moment . Ive noticed , when I do spend time in the newest , that guy Mishael just seemed to disappear , maybe I missed something and I will find out more as I get closer to the news stuff . Also Skip and Mild Bill and Carelton . Hope these guys and so many other great posters are all ok . Let's hope they are ok and that we keep getting lots of new people also , to keep our brain cells working .

Hello ' Sammi '

Just because their bodies did not die for another 800 years does not mean they did not die on the very day that they did eat of it .

Personally I think God had created man with so much life it took that long for that death that now reigned in him to manifest itself .Now it only takes 70 years or so .

For are we not " dead in trespasses and in sin"? Yet we are to all appearances alive .

Many will have Christmas trees in their living rooms . They look green and alive . But because they are cut off at the root they are in fact dead and that death will soon begin to manifest itself anon.

And all the lights and tinsel and even the false fruit of those baubles will not make it otherwise .

So we should believe God that he means what he said and he says what he means .

For then we might come "to know Him who is from the beginning "

It was not believing God that in the day ye eat if it "you shall surely " and believing the lie " ye shall not surely die " that has led the world and all of mankind into the sorry mess it is in now .

For the devil not only "changed the truth into a lie" by simply adding ' not' but told a half truth , for on the face of it they did not .

Are we now to think the devil speaks the truth and God has the character of the devil !?

God was right in the beginning and has always spoken the truth and is right now also and every will be.

The devil on the other hand that arch deceiver was a liar in the beginning and is the father of all lies .

That day and hour when he will be forced to bow his knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord will not be to his salvation but everlasting contempt and damnation.

Indeed that victory has already been accomplished when Jesus died for sin and thus stripped him of all power and authority .

For the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the Law .

But that victory obtained unseen will also one day be manifested but we can by faith enjoy it now .

please keep me and my family in your prayers remember my son in law Adam who has lost his job, remember my father-in-law who is battling cancer and remember the Sutton family for the loss

Saul of Tarsus was indeed a very gifted man full of zeal " but without knowledge" when he was converted he was still full of zeal but now with knowledge and a proper understanding of the scriptures which his knowledge of all those languages did not give him.

Your right it does not specifically say that Paul spent 3 years in the Arabian desert unlearning and learning and getting an understanding of the scriptures he had not got sitting at the feet of Gamaliel who was considered the greatest teacher of his day .

But given we are instructed to " rightly divide " the Word of God is it unreasonable the Lord showed him how to do so?

The letter to the Romans ( gentiles) and the letter to the Hebrews are in my humble opinion the greatest examples of the lost art of Biblical argument .Where he not only leads up,the mountain of exposition but also stops (as all men do climbing one)and looks back and says in effect in the light of all this " therefore consider yourselves dead to sin and alive unto God." Then leads us further up,the hill .occasionally stopping as before .

I find him not an easy man to follow or to walk with , but goodness me well worth the effort and I'm in good company because Peter had the same problem .

I'll say therefore again knowing Greek or Hebrew is no guarantee and I'm thankful to him who pointed it out with regards to predestination . I can't argue in Greek . But while it may say destined in Greek (though I do wonder if that's all it says or means )it would be wrong to put it in English . It must be predestined in English . For no man is destined for that would make him have some inherent characteristic which would make him worthy of it .

It is due to the foreknowledge and predetermined will and working of God . Thus it must be PRE destined .

Yet a careful reading of the scriptures shows they actually stated in Jerusalem . Perhaps thinking that as the Lord said it in that order we must do it in that order . It was not until persecution came that those 3000+ disciples were scattered to the four winds " preaching the gospel" that the whole world soon knew of it . There is written evidence that the gospels reached the shores of the UK in only 30 to 50 years of Gods fulfilment of His promise to mankind in the garden of Eden.

No wonder the great host of heaven being a very disciplined lot were silent while the angel gave the message to the shepherds but once given could no longer keep their joy to themselves and let loose! And heaven broke its banks .

I would suggest the church has lost much ground for what that generation achieved in spite of great persecution we seem to have achieved very little . Some seem to think those of the reformation has very little faith . Yet they with their " little" turned the world upside down ,yet they who boast in so much do very little .

I'm reminded of the Tower of Babel . For God told that generation to go out into all the world. But they found a nice spot and said let us make a name for ourselves and build us a tower .

Yet if that Greek is true and it was 'destined ' that word destined in English would imply if not state that there was or is something inherently worthy of that which it is destined for .

That clearly and theologically and doctrinally is impossible .

For no man is worthy of anything and there is nothing in man that is destined for anything but hell and damnation .

Therefore while you can argue the Greek word means 'destined ' in the context of zGod Almighty the right English word to be used is " predestined" pre - before . For anything we might become has nothing to do with us or inherent in us ( for in our flesh there is no good thing) but was and Is due to the foreknowledge and determined council of His own will and it's out working .

As for any other translations they simply make the matter worse .

This is no slight on the previous writer ,but rather to show how translations cannot be automatically go from one to the other .

It is an awful responsibility to translate the Word of God and no man should take it upon himself to do so. For to get it wrong iscto at best mislead and confuse people who read it thinking they have the light when in fact it is darkness .

For the record ,I do not know Greek or indeed Hebrew . But I do know English . If then someone says they have a better understanding of the text in the original language let them explain their understanding in English . If they can't or don't or say you are not qualified then you should seriously doubt their understanding .

Another writer explained wisely how in Pakistan he had to be careful in making sure the translators had it right . So do we in English .

Amen Gerald.

Well spoken brother.

Thanks Sammi.

I now understand what you meant.

Some use those verses as measurement to put us into the Millennium and many other things.

God bless.

Thanks for that ,I find languages fascinating. Having married a French woman it was interesting how many English words and French are much the same but used very differently.

Desolate being one . In English desolation is like a land stripped bare of vegetation after some catastrophe or a city in ruins . In France if you went into a shop and they did not have what you wanted in stock they would say ( in French) I am desolated we don't have any . A somewhat exaggerated form of "I'm sorry ".

In comparison the French language is very limited English being very rich and of a much greater range of its expressive forms .

Capable of expressing quite abstract and complex concepts .

I have no objections at all in people wanting to learn Hebrew or Greek ( how could I?) what my contention is if you will is that learning ' the original text' no more guarantees you understanding the Word of God as knowing English does . My argument to uphold that is that neither Saul of Tarsus or many of the Pharisees or Sadducee's or Drs of the law despite it being their mother tongue understood it either . Subjecting the Word of God to their intellect rather than subjecting their minds to the Spirit of God .

Saul who later became Paul spent three years unlearning what he had learnt at the feet of Gamaliel and got things so right at the feet of Jesus .

As I have already said many if not most of the new translations boast in their " better understanding" but show their lack in the very first verse of the very first book ! I know of two versions that have wrongly translated a verse in revelations 3 from " IN" to 'ON' and so make themselves God .

How is that possible?

Men lean more upon their own understanding either of Greek hebrew or English ! Rather upon Him who leads us into all truth .

I think if a man learns Greek or Hebrew which cannot be unprofitable has to be even more careful to lean not upon his understanding for reasons given above in those examples .

GB

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b. Re: Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer, son of the morning" and then Revelation 22:16. These two Scriptures are un-related & the persons are in opposition to each other. The Isaiah one is a prophecy against the King of Babylon (verse 4), who outshone the kings of the Earth in splendour & power & because of it, believed he was even greater than the gods or even God Himself. This prophecy alludes to Satan who has similar ambitions, not knowing that he, as that earthly king, will "be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". He might be called 'son of the morning' for his presence, power & what the world first looks for in the new day as they follow him & his ways. But The Morning Star shines throughout eternity, offering the "water of life freely" to all who are athirst. And He will come again in glorious splendour reigning with His saints forever.

In Revelation 22:12, the word for "bright" is 'lampros' in Greek, which simply means, 'magnificent, bright, splendid'. And "morning star", is a reference to the brightest star that is seen in the morning, being Venus. To connect Lucifer to Jesus is very wrong, since the meaning of Lucifer ('a shining one') and Jesus ('Yahweh is salvation') are clearly different and only Jesus is said to be the 'Morning Star'. The other 'morning stars' are given in Job 38:7, probably referring to the angels or heavenly beings.

That's 1 way to look at it. Day definition as span of time. Psalms 90:4, 2Peter 3:8,

Genesis 3, Also a Spiritual death, that happened immediately, the results of which were immediate fear, instead of trust to their creator. Feeling naked before GOD, & man etc. Matthew 8:22, Luke 9:60, Romans 5:12-21,

Eternal life, reference too Psalms 82,

Hopefully this is helpful

Many have departed from the truth

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Hello James. Sorry to read of your poor health & the confusions & contradictions that are overwhelming you. I would hold onto the Lord Jesus' Words: to 'come to Him if you're over-laden with the cares, concerns & burdens of this life - He promises His rest to all who come.' ( Matthew 11:28). Even in ill-health & hopelessness, Jesus' Peace can over-rule our hearts & minds & give us a certainty of His involvement in our lives & a future where heart-ache & pain will be no more. ( John 14:27; John 16:33; Philippians 4:6,7; Revelation 21:3,4).

And that is wonderful, that you are persisting in reading God's Word, for therein are the words of Truth & Life. The Promises of God are "yea & in Him Amen" (i.e. they are certain & will not fail); I pray that you will really come to the point of placing your complete trust & hope in Jesus, for He truly is the Answer, the only Answer, to all of our sins, sorrows, hopes & dreams.

To your questions:

a. I think you're quoting Revelation 22:4, "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." I picked this verse, as the verses that give the mark of the beast don't apply to the believer in Christ, for if he were present at that time & faithful to the Lord & not to Satan, he would refuse that mark and bear the consequences. In Revelation 22:4, I can't be sure whether there is a physical imprint of Jesus' Name there, or this verse speaks metaphorically. Just as how the mark of the Anti-Christ will be made to appear on all those who wish to follow him & continue to live & not die under his rule.

The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Psalms 24:1, & 1Corinthians 10:26,

Hopefully this is helpful

I'm sorry , my fault I guess I didn't make myself clear , when God said that in the day thou eatest thou shalt die , and then on the day that Adam and Eve ( 24hour day) did eat , they did not die , but lived another 800 years as Gerald said , then a possible explanation of that is because , one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day to God as stated in 1st Peter I think . Sorry for not being clear in my post .

Prayers goes with him, AMEN

Calvery greetings. I humbly ask prayer for me and my children to be spiritually saved and physically healed. I ask for prayers of deliverance, healing and breakthrough in jesus name. We ask for prayer to know and understand with approval that even in tribulations God is near.

Thanking you in advance for your prayers. God bless your organization and ministry in His HOLY name. Thank you...

Thank you brother for that pertinent message focussed on Truth. Just to share a little of my own experience in Pakistan on this matter of the Word of God, which is Truth, & how it can be translated & give a different meaning to another of a different language group.

In preparation to share in a Bible study with a group of believers, I spoke to my Pakistani brother, who was fluent in both Urdu & Punjabi, about certain words that I would refer to in the study. My passage was from 1 John 4:7-11. As is common practise, the speaker would first verify certain words that the translator may not be familiar with or if the meaning given is different to what the Bible teaches. I didn't refer to the Greek here, as this was unnecessary for the audience, but asked this brother how he understood & would translate the word, 'propitiation' (as in verse 10)?

He mentioned the Urdu word he would use in his translation, would be 'kaffare', as this is the word given in the Urdu Bible. I then asked what he personally understood of that word. He replied, 'when we see that word, it means 'atonement'. I asked, 'do you see any other meaning in it?' Apparently not. So, I needed to include the full meaning of propitiation, which is not just an atonement, but really an appeasement of an Holy God angered by sin & its hold on man. The brother didn't know any of this & hopefully, by using my English Bible (& by the way, the Greek also agrees to it), some believers were brought to a better knowledge of the "breadth, length, depth and height" of God's love towards us sinners.

So, in one sense, we are a different language group to those of NT days who spoke other languages, with the NT written in Koine Greek. As much as our KJV NT is properly translated from Greek, often a better appreciation can be had if we could actually read it in Greek & not rely on a translation which at best may not deliver the best meaning in English. What we have is good & profitable; the original would be better.