All Discussion PAGE 690

Please pray for good medical test results and no cancer. Pray for my anxiety related to these tests and complete healing.

Thanks for clarifying David. So, your pro-baptism and encourage people to be baptized then?

Based on the comments I had the impression that you were against it and so I must have misinterpreted.

Because the original commenter said baptism is very important, but it seemed like you disagreed with that and dismissed it as a "work." Good works are good, though. Faith without works is dead, the Bible says. That is very different than someone falsely thinking they are earning salvation.

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

What's interesting is Jesus uses baptism and salvation in the same sentence here, suggesting there could be a correlation. I know you say there's zero correlation, but its interesting how Jesus phrased this. So, either salvation is related or it isn't related. Only one is true and what Jesus meant. Sure would be a bummer to guess wrong on that one and downplay something Jesus said to do. I think because Jesus said to do it, I encourage others to be baptized and think its wrong to discourage people from obeying Jesus's commands.

"And God separated the light from the darkness ,and the light he called good"

God does not change as it was in the beginning so it will be at the end .

For God will separate the " children of darkness " and the children of light"

Some object to a God who will send people to hell .

But if you " love darkness more than the light" would not heaven be unjust of God to send you there? For "Heaven" ( gen 1:1) needs no sun or moon for God is the light thereof .

But would it not be just of God to send you to that place you love the most ? What the scriptures call" outer darkness ".

I'm not sure what that means but it does not sound good .

Man was created for the light . His eyes respond to light conscious or not . Put a man in a room with no light for long enough and he will suffer . We were created for the light .

But due to the fall and of sin we have by that fallen nature become children of darkness .

Notwithstanding this ,he has the ability to respond to the Light .

Jesus said though "this is the condemnation , the light has come but men love darkness more than the light "

If a man finds himself in hell ,it's not so much because he has sinned ( for all have sinned) but that he loved his sin more than righteousness .

Religion if that is all it is ;is great darkness though it asserts otherwise . " for if your light be in fact great darkness how great is your darkness ".

I'm praying for your family tonight. The Lord is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think. Keep knocking.

Just a thought and something to consider .

When Joseph was in Egypt he was already married when he=met his brethren the second time .

So also was Moses already married to a gentile wife before he met his brethren the second time .

The Bride will predominantly be made up of Gentiles but that does not mean there will be no Jews in the make up of the Bride but comparatively very few . The bulk of the Jews who will be saved will be that remnant who will " see Him who they have pierced " and will be saved in a day when they call upon the Lord surrounded by their enemies and about to perish .

GB

Thanks for those reminders .

Is it not written that the bride shall come "out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners "leaning upon her beloved ""

The Lord is coming FOR His bride ,who hath made herself ready and is " looking for Him" .

For they that look for Him shall He appear the second time".

Not all shall see Him ,for He shall come as a thief in the night and shall steal away from them those things that some think is their.

For there shall be two in a bed and one shall be gone ,two in the field and one departed .etc.

At the coming of the Lord the first time we had people looking for Him " running to and hastening to the coming of the Lord"

The shepherds . The man and woman in the temple prayed and prophesied when they saw the child ,baby.

Many were in the temple but only those two were looking for Him.

The church has reduced the Salvation of God to being BORN again . It also in the main has projected the idea that that qualifies us to be in the=Bride .

Let it be understood that ever6 true BORN child of God is called to that" high calling". But as in the Olympics where athletes have to qualify to actually race in the Olympics . So likewise being Born again qualifies us to " run the race" .

But to win the prize as Paul puts it we have to run it not just because spectator and run it lawfully or as per conditions .

If the Lord said to those who knew Him after the flesh to " be ye also ready".

How much the more us ?

Who seeing as it were afar off may like those servants think the Lord delays the His coming and stop working and be as the world ?

Happy is the man who is found working when He comes .

Is it not true that when a workman should has been working half the day sits down for 5 minutes and that is the exact moment the boss comes walking in ?

Did not all 10 virgins fall asleep? And had to be wakened with the cry " the bridegroom comes!

But only 5 were wise and ready .

GB

Praying for you tonight.

Adam - I'm afraid you are misunderstanding what I said. I never said we should not be obedient to God's commandments. We absolutely should.

What I said is that we should never ever trust in our obedience to any commandment as contributing anything to our salvation. God has done ALL the work to save us.

When God saves us, he gives us a new heart, a resurrected soul and we will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to everything that we read in the Bible, both in doctrine and in practice. But again, that obedience contributes nothing to our salvation; it is a gift of God, the result of our salvation.

You can read my reply to Benning below to see my belief.

I believe what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. It's very clear what He said and meant. This applies today and means water baptism. Any complex rationale people invent doesn't change Jesus's words or what He meant.

Just because someone is obedient doesn't mean someone is obeying with impure motives. It doesn't automatically mean someone is obeying God to "earn" salvation aside from grace, but following and obeying Jesus because that's what a Christian does. A Christian follows Christ. It's really clever to attack someone being obedient to God; this obviously doesn't come from God. I have an idea of where this defiance comes from though. I'm sure no one will change what they want to believe here, despite what is clear in scripture. We will all find out on judgment day. Will Jesus welcome those who disobeyed Him or who those obeyed Him? Some of those who are shaming obedience don't even consistently apply it. They may cherrypick one verse Jesus said and obey that, but not all the other verses Jesus said. Christianity a la carte?

The penalty for adultery in the O.T. was stoning.( Leviticus 20:10-20). Although it is not enforced in most of the "free" nations today it is enforced in many Muslim countries (who undoubtably carried on the O.T. concept). To understand infidelity; we must be clear on what "fidelity" means. In Matthew 1:19 a divorce was considered by Joseph because of perceived infidelity by Mary. It was ALSO considered a death penalty if a man had relations with an espoused virgin ( Deut. 22:23) and she did not protest (verse 25) which in that case only involves stoning the man.

God establishes the marriage covenant with vows and Psalm 15:4 states that we should keep our vows even when it hurts. We pledge until "death do us part" and become part of a vow which God establishes so that we become one flesh in His eyes. Any other relationship is one flesh but the Lord turns away from any recognition and I would say any blessing that can be given to it.

The exception would be the gift of life should a child result; as he or she is not responsible for the parents sin and still has a soul that belongs to God.

We are; of course in N.T. times and called to forgive one another. It is noteworthy that with all the multiple marriages and concubines (basically adulteries) going on that there is not ONE mention of a divorce of any character in the Bible. This makes one consider that a divorce perhaps in the Matthew 1:19 example truly was ONLY for espousal which fits in with the word "fornication". That is my theory anyway. In any case as with anything else if a brother sins; we are to confront them with it.

In the case of certain infidelity it is the church's responsibility to counsel; exhort and when necessary remove a member who is behaving this way. Hopefully the person will be shamed enough to repent knowing many are praying for them but sadly this sort of solidarity is usually missing in today's church.

I pray if that is your reality God restores things by His Grace.

Eze 36:24-31

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

GiGi - You have highlighted the essential aspect of Salvation.

We are saved by Christ's Faith - His faithfulness in doing ALL of the WORK to SAVE us - not our faith.

Our faith is a RESULT of our salvation given to us by God. It is neither the cause nor the means of our salvation.

Thank you for your post.

Thanks brother for that clarification. Blessings.

Adamthat is not what I said.

Water baptism during the Church Age, like circumcision during the Old Testament time beginning with Abraham, was a physical act commanded to be performed by God's people as a sign pointing to a spiritual aspect of salvation which is performed entirely by God. But neither of these signs had any efficacy regarding salvation.

If we are trusting that obedience to any commandment of God, including the sign of water baptism, is a requirement for our salvation or affects our salvation in any way, we have a works / grace gospel that cannot save and we are under the Law and not under Grace. Read Galatians. God does ALL of the WORK to save us.

The Old Testament seventh day sabbath was a ceremonial law pointing to this important truth. Remember what happened to the man that picked up a few sticks on the sabbathGod said to stone him to death.

I feel like everything is too much and like I can't take care of myself. Everything is so difficult at the moment and I'm shocked at the bad circumstances coming from all directions. I'm asking for intercession in Jesus' name, amen

Amen Gerald!

Gates in scripture is used as defense for a city.

The "Gates of Hell" will NOT prevail against the Church!

It's the Church on offence in this battle with Christ as our Victor.

That reminds me of Daniel 7:25. And he/Antichrist. shall speak great words against the most High, AND SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

You see ,This couldn't be the SAINTS/Church! Israel is also called saints.

Psalms 148:14.

Psalms 50:5-7.

The Church is not on the scene. In fact the antichrist can't come on the scene until the Church is removed.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-9. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: ONLY HE/HOLYSPIRIT WHO NOW LETTETH WILL LET, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.

And then shall that Wicked/Antichrist be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

GB.

Gerald, i love what you said about God having more life in Himself than sin has death. Thank you! That blessed me today.

Yes, this was the first commandment given to animals and mankind. he has never rescinded this command, but it seems that man is the only creature that tries to limit the number of children they procreate. I don't think that our wisdom is doing us as much good as most people think. Look at Europe, they are suffering from low birth rates that are below replenishing the work force. The United States is close to that now, only mitigated by migration of people into this country. I do think that God 's way is wisest and that couples should endeavor to be "generous in the service to God of bringing forth of life", welcoming of every child God allows to be conceived, and prayerfully deciding when their quiver is truly full.

Yes S. Spencer, faith does come by hearing the Gospel when the Holy Spirit empowers it to bring one to faith. When I was

brought to faith at a very young age (I don't even remember a moment when I did not believe) it was the Father who drew me

in love to Him. It was the Spirit who made me alive in Christ and supplied to me the faith to believe in Jesus, even when I was

too young to fully understand all matters of our conversion and life with God.

This is a good example of "monergism" where God did all the work of saving me, not because I had innate faith nor because I

had intellectual comprehension of what was done for me in Christ. But because God had elected me and brought me to faith at

the time He appointed for me. I can never brag about coming to faith with my own efforts, because my conversion did not

involve my effort. It was done all of God in a wee one. Like Jesus said, "Let the children come unto me, and do not forbid them,

for of such is the Kingdom of heaven." Matthew 19:14.

It comforts me greatly to know this, because I can see how God "kept" me through all of the years of childhood, adolescence,

and early adulthood when we can be so foolish. Despite the sins, He kept me in the faith, continued to forgive me, grew me in

knowledge of Him and His Son, created in me a hunger to read the Bible without anyone urging me to do so, helped me to be

decisive about how I wanted to live my life at crossroads of continuing in a way that was sinful or walking His way, equipped me

to be a prayerful person, lead me to my believing husband, and so much more.

The grace He has bestowed on me is precious to me. When I look back I can honestly say, I don't want to go back to who I was

but instead, press on to become more and more like Jesus until He brings me home to Him at last.

Hello Jesse

I have just found that reply of yours to me.

1. I agree with what you wrote about Jesus although I believe that we can sometimes humble ourselves, and if we are not determined to do so and it is needed then God does it for us by getting us through situations that push our ego/pride downwards. Example. Lets consider humbling ourselves as obeying to God. Say a commadement is "Don't lie". Obviously one can do that (unless they have the passion of lying). So it it up to me to humble myself infront of God's Will. Say another commadement is "Love your enemy". Obviously this can not be done without God's Grace, that com/ment is impossible to do for any man on earth. Let's consider another com/ment, "Read the Bible, Pray to God", I can do those and if I don't do them then I will find myself in trouble and I will eventually humble myself.

There are passions/things in men that only the Spirit of God can free them from these, but there are things we can do ourselves without needing any help from the Lord, e.g. "Do not take any oath". God starts acting on us when our ability can not get us any further. e.g. I need a job. So what I can do is go out and look for one, this is for me to do, God is not going to do it for me, but what He can do is to bring a result in my search for a job(this I can not do). It is true though that many times we are completely incapable of doing anything but praying. Praying to God and asking for things (material or spiritual) isn't humbling ourselves in front of God? We accept that we can not do anything by/for ourselves, so we ask for help. Fasting isn't humbling ourselves?

2. The grk for "Humble yourselves " is not passive voice, it means make yourselves humble(not done by somebody else).

Anc grk "tapeinono" means make somebody humble(myself in this case). In mod. grk it has become passive voice, "tapeinonomai" (don't try to pronounce it, you'll strain your tongue) which means that I become humble (by myself). Confusing but right.

GBU

It is indeed the same rock . But all true born sons of God have already passed from death to life .

If Adam had not disobeyed God and sinned ,he would never have died and would be still walking this earth today .

And the garden of Eden perhaps would have been replicated all over the earth .

But God spoke the truth that in the day they are of that particular tree "they would surely die"

Yet did they not live for another 800 odd years? Yes but you could argue that God had created man with so much life it took rhat long for death that now reigned in them to manifest itself .

Jesus could not have died . For He had not sinned . If then He had not given Himself for a sacrifice for sin under the law . He would still be walking around this earth today .

But under the law " He who knew no sin became sin .." and so died .

" For the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law"

The gates of death and hell therefore coukd not be shut against Him .What says the scriptures ? " Open up here gates .."

Thus those gates had to open for Him. SomHe was buried ; dead for 3 days .

But glory to God there is more life in God than there is death in sin .

And Jesus Himself had not sinned and the devil "could find nothing in Him "that was his.

Death and hell could not keep Him in then and God could justly and righteously raise Him from the dead .

The tomb stone rolled away with an angel sat on top of it ,( it's going nowhere) The Lord folded the cloth that covered His face aside and stepped outside .

Shaking off all principalities and powers ,making an one. Show of them.

He was not raised alone .

For is it not also written "we are raised together WITH Him"?

He did not just rise from the dead either . But was made raptor sit on the right hand sifted if the Majesty on high far above all principalities and powers and given a name that is" above every name.." in heaven and earth and under the earth .

100% brother! I couldn't have said it better myself.

So God's "judgment" is going to come upon anyone OBEYING God?

I agree. It sure seems like Christians are eager to disobey Jesus and what He spoke in Matthew 28:19. Coming up with every possible rationalization to not follow Jesus's words while at the same time claiming to be a Jesus follower. God is the judge and sure He is big and powerful enough to make exceptions and allow anyone in paradise He wants, like the thief on a cross, maybe someone on their death bed who decides to follow Jesus. But why would someone whose goal is to follow Jesus work so hard to NOT follow Jesus? Ashamed? Embarrassed? Mark 8:38 Matthew 10:32-33 It seems like a Christian that just doesn't agree with THAT part of Christianity, but the rest of it? Seems like an enormous risk to take in my opinion, almost like a heart of pride and rebellion has something to do with this resistance.

Acts 2:38 - some silently add a "Do NOT..." in front of this verse. Could satan be involved in this? He sure likes deceiving Christians into doing the opposite of what Jesus tells them.

John 14:15 - Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. Does someone who doesn't obey Jesus truly love Jesus then?

Hi Chris

I agree with what you wrote, "Faith gives us assurance to our hopes making it reality (or our present possession), when ordinarily without faith, it remains only as hope". That is right, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. The difference in the definition of faith in Hebrews is not actually a difference, the meaning is the same nomatter the words used. GBU

HI Gigi.

There is one definition for the word faith. "Persuasion".

There are 2 recipients of faith.

1)"The lost or those in darkness.

2)"The saved, Children of the light and "Promise".

For the Children of darkness, Persuasion rests on what is uncertainty/Hopefulness. "Darkness,

The Child of promise is in the light which shines in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 4:6. This is supernatural!

It's Christ Persuasion that we rest on. We are persuaded by what is truth and cannot lie.

Hebrews 6:12-33. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

faith/persuasion comes by hearing the word of God.

GB

I'll never understand what the big deal is about avoiding baptism or claiming it's just a work and nothing more and that it's not essential to salvation. Jesus said it is. "Believers" go out of their way to avoid it. Faith without works is dead. You know what else is works? Faith and belief. Look further into this. Dismiss it if you will. Better to obey God's word if you are a believer than to save yourself before being saved. I can't stress it enough.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Chris

Martyr and witness are not just similar words in grk, martyr actually means witness (he who is a witness). Mardyrdom (witnessing) was christians witnessing/confession of their faith in Jesus in those early times. There is confusion because in Eng. they are different words but in grk they are the same.

It is this version that I read.