All Discussion PAGE 7

Luke 6 says in these two verses: 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

And John 14:23

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).

I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate

evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in

the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.

At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.

Hello Tdianne

My belief differs from GiGi's as I believe that a person has to be immersed in water during the water baptism.

In Colossians 2:11-12 it says

"11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

In Romans 6:3:7 it says:

"3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7.For he that is dead is freed from sin.".

So the baptism in water signifies the burial of the old sinful man and the raise of the new man. The baptism is actually the burial of the old dead sinful man. To be buried with Christ into His death one has to be fully immersed in His death/grave/water.

Sorry but sprinkling with water, in my opinion, means nothing. On top of that the word baptism which originates from greek means immersion/going under. In the Book of Acts (9:26-40) we can read the story with Philipp and that eunuch. Another story is John's baptism. In the NT we don't see anybody to be water baptized by sprinkling. GBU

Tdiane,

If you were baptized into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, AND you believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, the baptism is valid, whether by immersion or sprinkling.

Christina,

I am happy to pray for you today.

Heavenly Father, we come before You today in the name of Your Son, Jesus our Lord asking for healing and peace for Christina. Lift up her spirit and heal her mind from the unhealthy thoughts of depression. Take back what the devil has stolen from Christina that she may be joyful in You and hope in You. Lead her in the reading of Your Word that she may be encouraged and be filled with praise for You. Prevent Christina from slipping deeper into depression but instead bring her out of it. We ask this of You, Father, because You are near to the faint of heart and those broken in their spirit. Amen.

Re.11:15-19KJV

The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.

...

18And the nations were(WILL BE)angry,and thy WRATH is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.

19And the temple of GOD was(will be)opened in heaven,and there was seen(then will be seen)in his temple the ark of his testament.

Re.21:8-But the fearful(COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.

Get ready

1Corinthians 15:24-27

24The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and power. (according 2Peter 3:7-18)

25For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For GOD hath put all things under His feet.But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.

Get ready

Revelation 21:2-4

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from GOD out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and GOD himself shall be with them, and be their GOD. And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Are you ready? they that are ready will be with Him to the marriage: and the door is shut. The foolish virgins still are far away buying oil.

Pray for me today that my mood is good and this depression leaves me. Thank You all

Is the sprinkling of water a true baptism?

Praying for the youth May God bless there souls and troubled minds.

AMEN!!! Absolutely beautiful

More on assurance of salvation or "eternal security"

As stated before space ran out in the last post; Romans 8:16 shows the communication between our spirit and His Spirit who resides within all true believers ( John 14:23; see also Eph. 3:17). For Him to RESIDE in our souls we must be born again.

And being children of God we also are made aware of opportunities which God gives us (i.e. "good works") that will be rewarded in heaven someday that are imperishable ( 1 Cor. 9:25; Matt. 6:19-21). Keep in mind the end of that passage stating that wherever your treasure is; your heart is also (loosely translated).

Again; as I have stated a LOT on this site; God's method is to chastise all those He loves (let the reader find the scriptures). There is no desire for this in the flesh; as it is stated in Hebrews 12:11 to be disciplined in this way. We learn to recognize and appreciate this "pruning" effort ( John 15:2); for without it we would be in danger of producing no fruit and in the end being burned (in everlasting punishment). Our confidence is that in the end we are made into a glorious image; and reflect perfectly His radiance as He truly IS our life. Our reward; therefore comes from Him and in reality is HIS reward. He will; of course have His saints rule and reign with Him as part of our inheritance.

Another point to be made is an effectual witness has to be bold in their testimony and bring the fear of the Lord as well as demonstrate His love. It is therefore as Philippians 1:28 states a "token of their perdition" that we remain steadfast in the confidence of all that He has promised us. Our coming exaltation to rule and reign with Christ isn't brought forth by arrogance on our part; but nonetheless the unnerving thing to those who hear our witness is that we are; indeed already seated in heavenly places. ( Eph. 2:6). Christ also overcame and is seated at the right hand of the Father. God will be magnified whether hell or heaven is our end.

Eternal security considered further

Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5) wouldn't be in scripture unless these things were possible. Just as there are conflicts in a true believer in regard to the flesh contending with the Spirit; we also recognize that Jesus Himself is working in and through us; we are just the mouthpieces and messengers. The Lord asks us to do many things that are impossible in the flesh; in fact ALL things actually are impossible for unregenerate man as they are spiritually dead; and we can do nothing apart from Him.

One insight in testing our faith to see if it is real is to see if God is drawing men to Himself through us; and with the company we keep. This is a difficult task as we see wheat and tares growing together. To follow Biblical discipleship is in many ways different from the way it is perceived today in many evangelical churches in particular. Multiplying numbers of new converts to keep the spiritual generations ever evolving cannot be at the expense of weeding out those who aren't truly committed to the task. This is what Christ did challenging many who wished to follow Him; as well as challenging the thoughts of even the 12 Apostles on a deeper level than with the masses. Our approach isn't the same as to being able to know all men's thoughts before they speak; but we must unapologetically be uncompromising with the Word so that error doesn't have a way of creeping in-at least as much as we can avoid having it do so. Basically; those who are truly in Christian fellowship will focus on prayer for one another and the Word as a guide to all of their life.

I have detailed these postings with evidences of being a true believer before tackling the "assurance of salvation". I will now look at some points to think about as to having confidence of "eternal security".

First and foremost there is Romans 8:16 showing how those who truly believe KNOW they are saved. More in next post.

My input on "eternal security".

Having gone to some lengths in discussing subjects such as Predestination and things related to this subject I thought I would

present some logic to consider this concept. A primary idea that I have discussed elsewhere is related to Galatians 2:20. To live in new life necessitates a DEATH blow to our old self. If not then we are still trying to do things in our own strength; and since we cannot save ourselves (see Titus 3:5) there is no way to please God in the flesh. Clearly this doesn't spell the end of our struggles on earth; as Paul states in Romans 7:23. Interestingly; he mentions the word "law" in regard to both the pull of the flesh that remains AND that of the Spirit of God; we see similar verses describing war between the desires of the flesh and that of the Spirit in Galatians 5:17.

Serving the Lord; therefore must be out of the love and resulting obedience in God. It has to surpass our human desires; no matter how noble they may seem. It counters our own loves and hates and brings us into conformity with Christ through the Spirit so that we can especially LOVE our ENEMIES which is not possible in the same way with our flesh. We could conceivably

tolerate a wicked man or be in submission out of fear but not seek his deliverance and serve selflessly expecting nothing in return in our own strength. As I have stated in other posts as well we also warn the wicked of their calamity; and that includes all those who seemingly are kind and compassionate; FRIENDS and enemies as well. As showing love toward mean people is impossible; we also have to warn those who seem like "good people" as well; despite our flesh trying to make our relationship with them (wife; husband; mother; father or best friend) seem to somehow absolve them from the fate of all of the rest of mankind.

So in this posting I am stating that our works (i.e. good fruits) as well as thoughts and what we say display whether He is truly in us.

Hello Momsage

Let's start a conversation on a topic that I am not really happy to start because it confuses a lot of people,but at the end I think it would be good to clarify some things.

So what do you think "God inspired scripture means"?. Some people believe that it means that every single word in the Bible is placed there by God, something like God dictated or took the mind and hand of people to write the scriptures. So what are your thoughts about it?

Hello Gerald

I don't think any of us said that it is necessary to speak Hebrew and Greek to be able to understand the scriptures properly, that is impossible anyway. There was just a confusion on why some Bibles, like the KJV, use the word "world" in Matthew 28:20 while other, like the NIV, use the word "age or time" instead. And I think we came up with a good explanation.

My belief is that all those scholars and theologians who speak those languages have done that job for us translating the original scriptures so we are now able to read and understand the Word of God. And I think nobody doubts that if the Holy Spirit does not shed light in vain we read the Scriptures.

GBU

Thank you Momsage for clarifying your first comment. When you stated your response to "those who have troubled themselves with creating the once saved always saved doctrine", it sounded like this was your primary reason for writing what you did. But if I avoid that comment, then yes, I can see what you intending to state, that every repentant sinner will never be shunned by God. Apologies for the misunderstanding & every blessing.

Hi Ronald: No worries. I'm not offended, but I'm absolutely confused why you keep correcting the Holy Ghost's writing of the bible. If He thought the creek word aion translated better into age then world He would have had it translated that way. That was the reason for my sarcasm and I'm sure He knew there were some Creek words that won't translat into English but what does that have to do with anything. In 2 Timothy 2:15 when God tells us to diligently study I believe He meant His true word not a dozen other books of Hebrew or Creek or whatever if it makes us think we know better then God how a word could have been translated in a better way. God Bless :)

Hi Chris: you missed the point. I have come to realized that it doesn't matter if you believe in once saved always saved or not or I believe in once saved always saved or not the bottom line is that there is a sinner who needs Jesus and it's up to us to help them find Him. God Bless : )

Please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Hello Momsage. The 'Once saved Always saved' belief isn't something created, rather found in the God's Word. You have recently alluded to the Work of the Holy Spirit in the translation of the Scriptures (particularly the KJB). And so too, the Work of the Holy Spirit must be commenced, continued, & completed in the life of a person now IN Christ. If this isn't so, then the one claiming & believing to be a Christian is misinformed or deluded.

Your statement that "If a person lives a life of a true believer then they are saved. If a person lives a life of sin then they need to repent and accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved", is true but simplistic. What it is lacking, is God's Work of salvation, of placing the seal of His Spirit in us, of securing, of adoption, of power, of correction even death. It might be one thing when we can observe a person who shows all the marks of a faithful Christian & we believe & accept that person as part of God's family. But it becomes quite another thing to know what the unseen life of the person actually is and how faithful he will be under temptation, persecution, or death. We may not know the person's state, but God knows & I believe, the 'Christian' himself will know.

The other aspect of this errant belief is that a Christian can be saved, yet step in and out of the faith, at will. Can we ever assume that God can be played with, with His Holy Spirit popping in & out of a person according to one's estrangement from the Lord & subsequent repentance? I don't see this happening anywhere in Scripture, rather that we remain very diligent in the salvation given us ( Philippians 2:12), not for fear of losing it, but to avoid the correction & discipline of the Lord ( Hebrews 12:5-11) when we sin; or even having to lose our lives if correction goes unheeded so that our spirits might yet be saved ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).

The Lord's Work is always gracious towards His children - He knows those who are His - He won't let us go.

Hi Momsage,

I don't take it as sarcastic; your posts show your love and support for Scripture, and I am sorry if what I posted has offended you in any way. I rely solely on the Holy Spirit for my understanding, and I believe I said that in my post. In Greek, there are sometimes no English words or any other language that have the same meaning and we must be guided by the Holy Spirit for the true meaning regardless of the translated Bible we have. The Bible has been translated into many different languages and whatever language a person speaks or reads the Holy Spirit will guide them to the true meaning regardless of the translation.

God bless,

RLW

Thanks Giannis!

You are always a great help.

I wasn't aware of 'ktisis"

Great stuff.

God bless.

hi Momsage

The Holy Spirit inspires people in many ways. One way is as Giannis and S. Spencer have demonstrated here by providing pertinent information according to one's expertise in a certain area to help others understand a Scripture verse or word. We cannot really judge that another person is not sending a message by the inspiration of the Spirit (not in the sense of inspiring sacred writing) but instead allow for the Spirit to work in others in ways that build up the body of Christ, as Giannis and S. Spencer are doing.

But perhaps you were speaking of how the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture, and I know that Giannis and S. Spencer, and you, and I and most on this forum believe that. We do need to keep in step with the Holy Spirit in all of our ways and words and be leadable.

How awesome is our Lord and God who has provided for us so much in every aspect of our lives! All praise to Him always!

Seems like the inspiration of the Holy Spirit got lost somewhere in your discussions.

"The Greek word aion was translated in the KJV 37 times as world, sometimes world works, and sometimes age would be a better choice," Maybe you should ask the Holy Spirit why He made a bad choice by writing it that way? I'm sure He would appreciate you pointing that out to Him. Not being sarcastic to upset any one, just making a point. God Bless :)

This is in response to those who have troubled themselves with creating the once saved always saved doctrine. If a person lives a life of a true believer then they are saved. If a person lives a life of sin then they need to repent and accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved. So it doesn't matter if they believe they were once saved and backslide or you believe they were never really saved. God won't turn away a sinner whether they were saved before or not. So there really is no argument. Jesus will forgive a repentant sinner. Period

Hi RicoUS, yes I will pray for all in need.

God bless you brother.

LaWanda, thank you for the information. I will certainly pray for you and everyone that is being attacked.

God bless you

Welcome Kevin. You are right, it is only through Jesus Christ our Saviour that our prayers go to our Heavenly Father.

Our Heavenly Father sent His beloved Son to destroy what satan has done to His children, us.

We all agree on you being healed by Jesus Christ.

Thank You Heavenly Father, Thank You Jesus Christ and Thank You Holy Spirit.

Yes, Jesus, and not just heart problems. Every organ that is not functioning as it should be, then heal us, please Jesus.

All the honor and glory be given unto Thee, Lord God Almighty.

Amen

Things such as responsibilities sometimes seem overwhelming to me, and it is hard to find calm.