All Discussion PAGE 876

Beyond our comprehension! Being frustrated because there exists no earthly language able to express the glory and praise which He deserves, I asked Him to show me how to worship Him. Submitting to Him in devotion and prayer, time held no worth, for to escape this world and revel in the presence of the Lover of my soul is beyond comprehension. The weight of His glory, the rest of our souls, our daily bread, His beauty visible only through communion with Him, but more than visible for this, His, great Love dwells in the very core of our being. Come quickly Lord Jesus for my heart will surely fail in longing for You.

Yes Mr. Landry. The SOUL that sineth it shall die.

So let me ask you, did the Apostle Paul commit any sin after He was "saved" on the Road to Damascus? Did his BODY die and was buried? Do True Believers die today and their bodies not be buried and decay?

More personally, do you believe that should Christ delay His return for another 100 years, will you still be alive in your current physical body?

Perhaps you could more clearly explain your understanding of the following:

Do you ever commit any sin of any kind?

What does it mean to be "BORN AGAIN"?

Where today is the Apostle Paul living and in what form?

Do you believe that God created all mankind with both a BODY and a SOUL? If not, what then?

Thank you.

Dear heavenly father, I ask that you bring peace to CSmith925. I don't understand how someone can treat another individual in a racist/hateful manor. But I pray that you teach love, peace, and respect to the individuals that wronged this beautiful women in Crist. Help CSmith with forgiveness and being the peace that you only can give to her. In Jesus Mighty name we pray, Amen.

Mom has always been a child of God. I feel that her soul needs a revival from God. I pray that mom gets her spiritual healing she needs. In Jesus Mighty name we pray. Amen

For Walter Beck- Prayer for healing and covering of blood. experienced something similar to stroke a week ago. Binding of confusion, dementia, Alzheimer's. For Christ to strengthen. Loosing of healing angels, warring angels, comforting angels, guardian angels

Math 24:1-3,

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The question is are these verses talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD by the Romans? And if not, what?

Note in verse 2 Jesus says, "...There shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down." So if you go to Jerusalem today and look at the ruins of the Temple, what do you see? Or should I say, what do you not see? You do not see a situation where there is "...not one stone left upon another". So is Jesus, eternal God Himself, exaggerating here? Is He lying to us? Did the translators make a mistake?

Now note verse 3 as the disciples asked Jesus, "...when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" And we see that Jesus did not correct the disciples saying that He was not talking about the situation as we approach the end of the world. Quite the contrary, as we read further Jesus began to provide information about what to expect as we approach the end of the world.

So what is the spiritual temple, the House of God, the corporate representation God's Kingdom on this earth; where we would expect to find the Word of God, the gospel, during most of the New Testament period? Is it not the local churches and congregations that have existed during that time?

I'm just going to leave it there for now. But I would ask us all to consider Matt 24, and in particular these first three verses, in the light of such passages as 1 Pet 4:17 and 2 Thessalonians 2.

Hi Landry,

My faith is in Jesus and He died and rose again being the Firstfruits of those who slept, and through Jesus's resurrection, I have the hope and promise of eternal life with Jesus. Death in scripture is sleep with no knowledge of time or anything. I do not believe in the immortal soul, so when I die I will sleep in the grave until I am resurrected into a new immortal, incorruptible body.

What is your understanding of resurrection and why do you say in the second resurrection?

God bless,

RLW

Hello Ronald.

You stated, "Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38"

But my query is: Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism (or before that)?

I don't have a clear view on that, because a couple of scriptures seem to say a different thing.

The first is Luke 4:1, "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,", also John 3:34, "For he (Jesus) whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.".

But then again in Acts 2:32-33, it says "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received (this in greek is in the present tense) of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

The latter says that Jesus received the Spirit (the promise) after (or at) His resurrection and then started giving It to believers.

So does that mean that Jesus lost the Spirit while on the cross? But then again it says He received THE PROMISE of the Holly Ghost after His resurrection. So what was it that that He had before? Wasn't that the PROMISE? Maybe some other ministry of the Spirit? Maybe like the prophets of the Old Testament who had the Spirit ON them but not INSIDE them?

Or some other explanation exists? I Hope I haven't confused you. So what do you think?

Others are welvome to answer, too?

GBU

Hey S Spencer,

I do not consider myself part of a group other than the body of Christ, it is just me. We should be brothers and sisters without labels sharing our understanding of scripture and inspiring each other to study for the truth and I feel we have done that so far.

The Messiah/Christ, the son of God, the second man, our Lord who came from heaven, the last Adam sent by the Father to do the will of the Father. Matt. 11:25-27 Hebrew 2:9-14

Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38

The Holy Ghost/Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, Matt. 3:16-17 Luke 3:21-22 Mark 1:10 John 1:32. God put His Spirit upon him. Matt. 12:15-21 The Spirit remained on Him John 1:33

The Holy Ghost/Spirit led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matt. 4:1 Mark 1:12. Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost and was led by the Spirit. Luke 4:1. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit Luke 4:14.

Jesus did miracles by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, Luke 5:17. He cast out devils by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, the Spirit of God Matt.12:28. Also John 14:10 (by the Holy Ghost/Spirit)

The scriptures were fulfilled Luke 4:18-21. The Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure John 3:34.

John's water baptism was as you said, God's anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit Matt.4:17 Mark 1:11 Luke 3:22.

I know you travel, so like Roy Rogers, happy trails to you, until we meet again. Showing my age, I will send more on the rest of part 1 and part 2.

God bless,

RLW

Brother Ronald:

I too am way up in age.

Why do you believe you are going to lay in the grave and wait for the second resurrection?

Why do you not believe you were resurrected with Christ, at the first resurrection?

Revelation 20:5-6

Hi GiGi,

Thank you, this is a subject I feel is important mainly for those who are here when it starts. If the last week of Daniel 9 is in the future, as taught the Church will be taken out and spared the tribulation coming with the beast, which sounds great. If this last week has been fulfilled in the past many will be looking for something that is not coming. How will it affect the faith of those who were not looking to be here? Those like me who are up in age may not even be here. we will be just waiting for resurrection.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Jema,

Hope your cat is doing better. The New fulfills the foreshadows of the Old. Just 4 and there are to many to count, 3 of the feasts were a foreshadowing that Jesus fulfilled down to the day and minute when He came, and 1 at Pentecost. There is a verse that stood out to me a long time ago that said to me the importance of the Old and the New. It is in the middle of parables and probably means something different, but it does to me.

Matthew 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

God bless,

RLW

Dear S. Spencer,

I do know people who hold to the viewpoint I and Ronald have spoken about Daniel 9.

Let me state again, I believe that Daniel 9 tells of the first coming of Christ, not the second, and that Jesus is the Prince, Messiah, spoken of in Daniel 9:25 an d the 'prince that is to come' in verse 26 is the Roman Emperor and his army that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D. In Matthew 24:15, I believe that Jesus' reference to Daniel's prophecy was to the destruction of Jerusalem and Temple in 70 A.D. also. (this verse refers back to verses 1-2 began the discourse).

But I also think that Jesus was speaking of the last times in this discourse, as well in some verses.

As to what I have stated in the past, Steven, I must say that as I study on this topic more and more, my views have changed. I am in the process of learning and my understanding is developing. So, please offer me grace to in this. Let's instead speak about our understanding of the passages at hand and not pick apart one another's thinking. I would love to hear you tell us your understanding. I will respect your thinking even if I may disagree with it.

As to being premillennial dispensational or historic, preterist, post millennial, or amillennial. I lean more towards the amillennial viewpoint the more I study. I do have some preterist understanding of this topic of Daniel, but am not totally preterist, either. I don't think we necessarily need to stand fully in one view over another as we are in the process of learning.

I do believe that Jesus took the throne of David at the right hand of the Father after His ascension to heaven. He received all authority and dominion from the Father and is reigning as our King and Priest now in heaven. He reigns over both heaven and earth, as He is Lord of all creation. I believer He will come again in glory to resurrect everyone, judge everyone, defeat all of His enemies, and determine every person's eternal estate at that time.

Amen to you :) .

God is good all the time, and all the time God is good.

Hello, my Mother and I need prayer. I have given my life over to God. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I have prayed for a vehicle to which he has supplied for mom and I. In that prayer we (Mother and I) promised God that we would find a home church. I am jobless, my health is deteriorating as well as mom. I know God can move mountains, I also know that he has forgiven me. Dear heavenly father, I need motivation to get out of bed on Sunday and find a home church both for Mother and I. I declare that or health will be healed completely. I ask that God rebukes the dirty mouth demon, fornication demon, homosexual demon, and any other demons I am unaware of out of my heart, mind and spirit in Jesus name. I belong to Jesus and Jesus alone. Tomorrow, I will find a job. In Jesus Mighty name I pray, Amen.

Thanks again Gigi.

A month ago I said I would like to try a exercise that would test or check our hermeneutics by going through the OT on into the NT.

I started it with the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants and I believe I left off where we identify the fulfillment.

The reason for this particular study was that some say God was done with Israel and his promises to restore Israel was made over to the Church.

There was dispute on Romans chapters 9,10, and 11.

Those studies would eventually end up in eschatology viewpoints.

I'm glad you labeled certain views you don't agree with dispensational and not I,

So by your definition I'm going to pull some of the dispensationist out of the closet.

First let me ask a question you have me confused on.

You said Daniel 9 is not an end time discussion how do you view Matthew 24:15?

Jesus goes through a discourse with his disciples on the end times and refers them to this. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Do you hold the view of Jesus being the Prince of the people destroyed the Sanctuary?

Your view of Daniels 70th week prophecy is very peculiar because you are Post trib. Did you know Post trib-ers use Daniel 9 as a spring board to the end times?

If so that's not the view you had when you supported Jimbob a few months ago.

You might want to read the ticket before getting on the train.

I've never heard anyone that holds to any rapture doctrine doesn't use Daniel 9's 70th week as the final week unless they say the abomination that makes desolate was done by Antiochus IV Epiphanes 200 years before Christ.

That doesn't work for your time-line and besides Jesus places it future towards the end time.

Can you explain?

Thanks in advance.

God bless

Thanks brother S. Spencer. I believe you have understood Daniel 9:24-27 as I have, but to add a little. I realize that the "HE shall confirm the covenant with many...." (v27), is the main point of difference that comes up. The question: is the 'He' speaking about Christ or the Anti-Christ? And this question raises different answers even from renowned commentators.

From your discussions with brother Ronald, I have tried to place Christ in that verse & read it as he shared. However, it just doesn't fit there given what is written before & after. As far as what was revealed to Daniel, the Messiah will be cut off (i.e. die). Daniel doesn't know anymore about Him. So everything after the death of the Messiah, the texts given must then refer to "the prince that shall come", the people of whom (the Romans) would come first to destroy Jerusalem & the Temple.

Now we're not told when that 'prince' would come, as well we don't have any record of any individual or power confirming (or, affirming) the covenant for seven years in this interim period. This could be the Covenant already in place that Anti-Christ assures Israel will come to force, or even raising his own covenant that aligns with the old giving it sanction. However he implements it, the sacrifices & oblations that have long ceased, he will reinstate, but mid-way in his rule, he will renege on it. Not just disallowing it, but he will desecrate the Temple with his own abominations. And the mention of 'abominations' in Daniel, have always applied to wicked acts & never to Christ (e.g. Daniel 11:31: ref to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, erecting a statue of Zeus in the Temple, and Daniel 12:11: again to the Anti-Christ, where the Jewish sacrifices are removed & the abomination set up). But Daniel wanted to know more ( Daniel 12:8,9), but all was sealed till revealed at the end.

If this was Jesus in v27, when did he forcefully remove the sacrificial system? The Jews continued to sacrifice after His death & resurrection.

Please remember me and my family in your prayers today

i need God's favour and divine provision and protection for myself and family

Sorry, about my previous about 'a[s]tonied': I think I was wrong. Wiktionary has an entry for 'astonied' and with a relevant meaning. Please reject both this and my earlier comment, if you like.

Brother David0921:

Ezekiel 18:4.... the soul that sinneth, IT shall DIE ......

God bless you

There appears to be a textual error in Daniel 3:24. The word 'atonied' should likely be 'astonished'.

S.Spencer,

As I said in my post to Ronald, I concur with his time chart, so I don't think I need to give a repeat of his and call it "my timechart". I do look forward to reading your thoughts on this.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for joining the discussion!

Ronald blessed me with the opportunity to pick up on a subject I started a month or so ago.

I didn't think you would be interested but I remember you said you was looking forward to reading it.

While we have you engaged can you offer your time chart for the 70th week as well using Daniel 9:24-27?

I hope others join in, this may turn out fruitful.

Looking forward to hearing your point of view.

God bless.

Ronald.

Part 2.

In Daniel 9:25. the Messiah the Prince should be translated Messiah the King. That is how its read in Hebrew.

Johns' baptism had nothing to do with him being king.

Here are other issues I have with your timeline.

Daniel 9:25 is the end of the 69th week.

According to you guys timeline, these are consecutive weeks.

So according to that,

Here is the beginning of the seventh week- Daniel 9:26. (And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off!)

Can you see right away there is an issue with that timeline you gave?

You guys put the beginning of the 70th week in your timeline at the baptism.

If you all want to be consistent according to this belief Daniel's 70 weeks is consecutive, according to vs 26 the 70th week starts off with the Messiah being cut off. See Daniel 9:26.

The end of the 69th week is the Messiah presented as king.

If Daniels 70th week Prophecy is consecutive the 70th week starts off with him cut off. (According to the way some have it)

Let's address Part 2 of you reply.

You said Stephen's death as the first Martyr 34-35 AD is 3.5 years after Jesus's crucifixion this would end the 70th week.

Let's go back to Daniel 9:26-27 and take it as it is written.

IM HIGHLIGHTING KEYS IN THE ORDER PRESENTED FOR LACK OF SPACE.

Daniel 9:26.....(and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...);

So, after the 69th week on into the 70th week we have the Messiah cut off but also the destruction of the city and the sanctuary.

(According to anyone that would have these weeks consecutive)

According to your timeline, you have that 38 years later.

If these weeks are consecutive, you have to include this in the 70th week.

However, those 38 years is an interval no matter what view you take.

But you guys don't believe there's an interval at all.

It's getting late, We can continue. perhaps during the week or this weekend.

God bless.

jema

no offense was taken, thank you for your kind words just the same.

Jonah 4:11

God does care for all His creatures.

That's correct Jorge. To reinterpret Zechariah 11:17, to read, "Woe to the (idle) shepherd that leaveth the flock!" would be quite wrong. In the phrase: the "idol shepherd", the Hebrew word (elil) clearly implies that "idol" references something that is 'worthless', just as an idol is a useless, worthless structure that does nothing for anyone. So too, such is a shepherd as one who is worthless if he deserts his flock - he resembles an idol that does nothing when he is needed the most. So, 'idle' wouldn't correctly describe such a shepherd.

Hi Ronald.

Part 1.

Thanks for your timeline and I appreciate how you and I can present our view and keep it peacefully and yet have entirely different views.

I also have the start of Jesus ministry around the same time based off John 4:17-21.

I don't agree with Jesus being anointed by the Holy Spirit at his baptism.

Nowhere in Scripture do we find Him being the recipient of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, Jesus is the one who baptizes others with the Holy Spirit. John 1:33.

Jesus baptism was symbolic of His entrance into His public ministry into the OT priesthood TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS.

At about thirty years of age, He was ceremonially washed with water and then set apart for that ministry. This set Him apart to do the work for which He had been called to do.

This is the same way the Old Testament priests began their service. They had to be at least thirty years of age, they were ceremonially washed with water and then they were anointed with oil on their head.

Messiah means "anointed one". The promised deliverer of the Jewish nation.

John identified him as the Messiah, but he didn't make him the Messiah.

Jesus was the Messiah at birth.

Luke 2:10-11.

Luke 2:34-38.

Matthew 1:20-21.

Ronald you authenicate your view of the begining of the 70th wee started because Andrew told Simon they have found the Messiah, and Philip told Nathanael and the demons knew who he was and so on.

But many knew who he was at birth and as a child!

Here is just one example Matthew 2:1.

The key is when did Jesus present his self as king? Not only that he arranged it.

Matthew 21:2.

Any other time they tried to make them king he wouldn't allow it.

John 6:15.

Let's revisit Daniel 9.

See part 2.

Hello Ronald.

Thanks for this clear explanation of how the 70th week was fulfilled in Jesus' time and how Daniel 9 foretold it would be. Even describing the 'people of the prince to come' that will leave Jerusalem desolate and the temple destroyed, which occurred after the 70th week in 70. A.D. by the Roman army.

I concur with your analysis. sometimes the simplest interpretation is the likely correct one (Occam's Razor). I do not think that Daniel 9 speaks of last times, but only to a future time within the time frame given without there being any break or interruption of the sequence given (70 weeks-490 years from the time that the decree went forth-457 B.C. - 33A.D. = 490 years). I do not believe, as the dispensationalists teach, that the prophetic clock stopped when the Jews rejected Jesus at the 69th week, only to start up again in the end times. I do not see this taught anywhere in Scripture. Thus, I do not think that Daniel 9 was prophecy for the time of Christ's second coming, rather, I believe it speaks to His first coming only.