All Discussion PAGE 887

Luke The messengers or spirits that caused the darkness of Genesis 1:1+2

Have been chained up but there are others with the commander Satan wreaking

Havoc until judgement day. Ephesians 6:12 states what we are up against

Spiritually.

Paul.

Part 2.

Chuck Missler sums up the problem this way.

This curse created a rather grim and perplexing paradox: the Messiah had to come from the royal line, yet now there was a"blood curse" on that very line of descent! The genealogy of Jesus given by Matthew shows Mary's husband Joseph to be a descendant of David, Solomon, and Jeconiah. Does this imply that Joseph was in line to be king of Judah? IDK. If you compare this genealogy to 1 Chronicles 3:15-16, you will note that some kings are actually skipped, basically for wickedness - Genealogy of Jesus. Note also that Jeconiah is also called Jechonias, Coniah, and Jehoiachin. Mat 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

Mat 1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

But the genealogy given by Luke lists the ancestors of Mary. Notice that Nathan, not Solomon is listed. This neatly avoids the blood curse on Jeconiah. Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Luk 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, In the Greek, Joseph is named without a definite article, meaning the genealogy is Mary's. The phrase "as was supposed" occurs in nearly all English translations; it is taken from enomizeto, meaning "by law", showing Jesus as the legal heir of Joseph. Joseph is considered more of a son than a son-in-law in this case.

So, it took a virgin birth to get around the blood curse of Jeconiah.

To shorten this article here's the conclusion.

In both these genealogies we have the house of David and the Throne of David fulfilled and it takes Christ around the blood curse of Jeconiah.

God bless

Thank you for the sound advice and encouragement God bless.

Thank you and I'm learning. God is great and to be in contact with other Christians is encouraging. God bless.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And (his) tail draggeth the third part of the stars of heaven, and (he) cast them to the earth: and the dragon is

standing before the woman which was ready to be delivered, in order to devour her child as soon as it was born.

What is the object ? (The dragon)

What did his tail do ? (It dragged 1/3 part of the stars, and cast them to the earth) they were deceived and followed him, it caused them to be (thrown down) not thrown out with him,.,, as when a fishermans net drags the bottom of the lake, dragging the net of fishes

drew = draggeth. See John 21:8

Elder prayer request please: Please pray God move every mountain in the way of his will for me and my life. Pray God help me trust him, make a way, heal and restore completely, and remove all anger and frustration. Pray God make all the wrong things right, remove all the hurt and anger I'm carrying, and remove all of the consequences I'm dealing with because God did not choose to reveal himself to me or give me the gift of faith until later in life. Pray for an overwhelming abundance of God's redeeming grace and love to accomplish exceedingly, abundantly more than I can ask, think, or imagine. Pray today be the day of salvation, healing, freedom, deliverance and restoration and that I would somehow be at peace with God and what he has allowed to happen to me and my family, free of anger, shame, condemnation and sickness. Pray every ancestral curse be broken in Jesus name.

Hey Charlene,

I agree with Adam if the angels did not have free will, there would not be any that disobeyed. Satan is the great accuser and as we see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 he presented himself along with the sons of God in heaven, and we know Satan had sinned.



My understanding is like Luke, they have not been cast out but will be cast down permanently with no more access to heaven, this has not happened yet, Revelation 12. Then the rise of the beast out of the bottomless pit to whom Satan gives his power, seat, and authority on earth.

There are angels not on the good side that have access to earth, Satan has power on earth limited by God, and devils/demons that scripture does not say how they got here or where they come from. Battles go on we do not see, like in Daniel 10. There is another group of angels different than the ones that have fallen but did not leave their first estate.



Their deeds were far greater, they left their first estate and left their own habitation 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6. These angels are locked up in chains of darkness, the bottomless pit, and have no access to heaven or earth. This is where the beast that many call antichrist will come from Rev. 11, 17, and where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years, Rev. 20:3.

God is light and there is no darkness in Him, and God is not author of confusion. Adam and Eve had sin but after they were cast out of the garden they were still in the presence of God because Cain went out of the presence of the LORD.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Paul.

Pt 1.

You said

" But the Bible speaks of things to be revealed beyond what's written"

You given several scripture supposedly indicating the Holyspirit have more to reveal separate from God's written word.

I have to disagree with that, The Holyspirit reveals the truth in God's word and sanctify the believer. not to mention its many othe tasks. Seal, teach, ect...

The Holyspirit does not have unwritten revelation to reveal he will make what Jesus said "AND LATER WRITTEN" comprehensive to us.

John 14:25-26. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, AND BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATSOEVER I HAVE SAID UNTO YOU.

Now concerning the supposed contradictions on Mat. 1:6 and Luke 3:31.

The bible says that Jesus will sit on the throne of King David. It also says that King Jeconiah, who is descended from David, will never have a descendant on the throne. So how can Jesus, apparently a descendant of Jeconiah, sit on the throne of David? First let's look at what the text says.

The Lord said to David on his deathbed.

2Sa 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee:

thy throne shall be established for ever.

It says the Messiah will sit on David's throne forever.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his (Messiah) government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

And that Jeconiah's descendants will not sit on that throne, (he is mentioned by name in Jer 22:28).

Jer 22:30 Thus says the LORD, 'Write this man (Jeconiah) down childless, A man who will not prosper in his days; For no man of his descendants will prosper Sitting on the throne of David Or ruling again in Judah.

See part 2.

Thank you for clarifying this for me. I had always thought this was the case, but some have used this verse to deter gambling. I'm not a proponent of gambling, in fact, gambling is the truest form of greed. And greed is a very bad thing to be present in anyone's life. Also, this pretty much bans homosexuals from the church.

Charlene. I apologize. Further explanation Lucifer was God's Highest

Messenger or angel and has a lot of power when he lifted himself up

Against God He became Lucifer and 1/3 of the other angels were thrown

Out of heaven with Him. Remember where there is confusion there is sin

And rebellion. Now he is known as the Devil or Satan or prince of this world

Or God of this world or figuratively serpent dragon ruler of kingdom of Babylon.

Thank God He's been defeated by Jesus Christ for all that believe. He is the

Cause of all man's problems because of unbelief and does anything in his power

To get people either to not believe he exist or to blame the true God for what he

Does.

A man after God's Own heart

When God called David and anointed Him God knew who He called and that he

Would listen and do. Look at David's humility many times before going into many

Situations he'd ask God what should I do how should I do it where should I go.

When dealing with Saul although Saul was out there he always addressed him as

A brother and treated Him with Godly respect because He was called of God but

Copped out of the calling, not God's Fault. That's how much David respected God

And men called of God, even when Saul died he addressed Him as God's anointed

What a man, that's why God took the time to call Nathan to straighten out David's

Head because he knew His Heart. It is interesting that in Psalms David begged God

Not to take His Spirit from Him. I can't imagine where is heart and mind were.

Hello, sin has the possibility of existing where freewill exists and I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible say that beings in heaven are stripped of their freewill. It would seem that beings indeed do have freewill given that the angel(s) rebelled.

I'm not familiar with any verse saying there's no confusion, if you can please share that verse you have in mind that would be helpful. God bless.

They haven't been kicked out yet! They disobeyed God and left their first estate/HIM and went to and fro unto the earth.

They got locked up, put into chains in darkness meaning prison in Heaven, and have been there ever since, awaiting to be set free THEN they make war with the Angels of GOD and win not, and THEN they are cast to the earth, suppose one could say that this is where they get kicked out.

Charlene Lucifer was kicked out of heaven along with those that followed

Him and his sin was pride to be like the most High God. Interestingly he at

One time was the bright morning star now Jesus Christ is.

Yes Sir! They die a spiritual death when they fall for and worship the anti-christ pretending to be Jesus, and He doesn't do a fly by either lol.

Many realize it during that hour and turn back, but many will not.

Jeremiah 9 is my most favorite scripture and I

Love it

Ronnette. It is unique that the verse is in the leadership Epistles to Timothy

Because by the time of the writing most that Paul taught walked away from

Him and he was given the knowledge of the mystery of the function of the Body

Of Christ the Church of of in the age of Grace.Kept secret before the world began

Romans 16:25+26.

Peter completes the first chapter of his second Epistle with a warning much like Paul does knowing that he is about to die. He elaborates on heresy among the brethren in chapter 2; then further apostasy in the last days in the third and final chapter. This is very clearly paralleled in the Book of Jude; giving pause to consider whether both authors communicated this theme or Jude got his ideas from Peter who perhaps had gotten it from Paul. This is all the inspired Word of God; of course. The concern for these things was clearly indicated when Paul stated that he prayed with tears "day and night for three years" concerning the state of the church. ( Acts 20:31; also see 20:37 when people wept about the prophecy of his imprisonment and likely martyrdom eventually in Jerusalem). Jude was going to discuss general doctrine; but the Lord redirected him with similar exhortations as he states in the beginning of the book.

There clearly is no mincing of words here. Verse 20 and 21 are particularly sobering warning that it is better not to know the truth than to know it and become reprobate (i.e. harsher judgment). The only one in this generation that may have been similar that I am aware of was David Wilkerson. Aside from interpretations of certain end time verses and prophetic statements that he made; which is the subject of another post; he certainly spoke against heretical practices.

Think about it. Today we remember men who were fabulous expositors of scripture; orators or who tenaciously held to the traditions of church doctrines. All of these things of course are commendable. But would they be held in such high esteem if they warned about apostasy; in their own midst no less. Surely the pride of those who had stakes in the institution; denomination; Christian school (not to mention FAMILY MEMBERS) would be offended. To use past successes as our standard in how Christ sees a church today is unwise in light of verses such as Rev. 2:5!!!

Paul. Another point to bring to your thinking God's Word in the Church Epistles

Tells us to put on the mind of Christ by working God's Word and Romans12:2

Renewing our minds or changing thought to line up with scripture in what we do and

How we do it. No other book gives spiritual instruction strictly pertaining to

Conduct in the church of God the Body of Christ. Colossians 1:24.

I wanted to know if there no sin r confusion in Heaven , why was the satan & his angels kick out of heaven

2 Timothy 2:15 is a powerful verse. If we do not learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, we will be lost understanding the chain of events from the time God brought the Hebrews from the Land of Egypt until The Christ Lord Jesus died on the cross up to our time today which is approximately 2,000 years. Honestly, we do not have time. As you all noticed the rapid days go by quickly as God says 2 Peter 3:8 and you see Psalms 2:1-12

I do not mind repeating to all that the Bible is a complete book Revelation 19:13 for us today to prepare ourselves and others. I pray all to be saved. We cannot have the people caught unaware of Matthew 24:37. To rightly divide is to know for us today what we need to do. So I will say that the 11 apostles messages are important for the physical Jews Matthew 10:5-7 at the end time; and there are verses in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that pertains to a spiritual Christians of today.

God had chosen Paul to be His vessel so we can read and believe not in vain. Study the Book of Romans to Philemon because he was the Last and believe it or not the 12th Apostle Galatians 1:1, Acts 9:15, Acts 13:47, Acts 22:21, Roman's 11:13, Ephesians 3:8, 1 Timothy 2:7, Galatians 1:16. After Jesus died He says Hebrews 9:14-17. Then you are Ephesians 1:12-14, 2 Timothy 2:19 and 2 Corinthians 1:22. Therefore, 1 Corinthians 9:2 just like Romans 15:28. Ephesians 4:30 and sing Psalms 49:8, 111:9, 130:7. In conclusion my fellow-believers, Paul is sealed 1 Corinthians 9:2 by God to be our apostle today. Weneedtoputtheworkof Paul not in vain Galatians 6:11. Paul tells us Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8. And the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Then we are sealed Ephesians 1:13. Perhaps you are not understanding me because Revelation 18:4, Proverbs 20:1, Roman's 7:11, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, 1 Timothy 2:14, 2 Timothy 3:13, Titus 3:3, and lastly Revelation 18:23. Psalm 37:1-40 then we meditate Psalms 27:1-3. Shalom/Agape.

Paul. You made a statement I can't buy that is that the bible Gods Word

Contradicts itself impossible. Either it's not understood according to ones

Own thinking or taken out of context or not worked in original language or

Not understood according to eastern thought but make no mistake it is the

ONLY PERFECT BOOK!

Seems to me we are in the times of sorrows, fake christians and gospel , wars and rumors of wars . Jesus spells it all out in Matthew 24 .

I find it interesting that the gospel is preached in revelation as a witness, then comes the end . I can't remember where I read that . But it tells me the gospel before that time was perverted by false Christianity. Sticking close to the word of God is best in theses uncertain times . As Jesus said take head lest any man deceive you .

Brenda. Not to be confusing since Christian's those who confess Romans 10:9+10

As you said our sin or sins are forgiven i.e. age of grace it is not of works then the

Question is who are the seven churches because they are being judged by their

Works? We will face the bema and be rewarded for our service and not judged by

When we sinned. So since believers don't face judgement and are righteous in

God's eyes by Jesus Christ I don't see how those assemblies are about the church

In the age of grace. P.S. also the book of revelation is written in old testament

Nomenclature and does not purtain to the church of God in the age of grace

Because we will be gathered together before the appearing starts.

Jim Tidwell on Galatians 6

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- Read John 3:1-21

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a (new) creature: old things are passed away; behold, (all) things are become new.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Matthew 25: They were all virgins but 5 were lost --read the chapter

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

( John 3:7 Jesus said ye must be born again)

We all can find a verse that tells us what we want to hear, there will be many lost after he says depart from me. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Marianne. David like us when walking and listening to God he conquered

When he didn't i.e. walking by his senses he paid and yet in all that he did

Wrong God calls David a man after His own Heart. We need that kind of heart.

Dear Brenda

You have pointed out a very important thing, that salvation can be lost, our name can be literally erased from the Book of Life. When? When we don't end up victorious in our course of life.

Paul says to Timothy about himself.

1 Timothy 4:6-9

"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hence forth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

And then he says in verse 10 "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;...""

So for one to get the crown of righteousness, he has to fight the good fight, to finish his course and to keep his faith. To be victorious in his christian life (by God's power and grace). If not then he will not inherit the Kingdom of God. And one doesn't know when his life is going to end, so we must be always ready. That is why in another part of the Bible ( Philippians 2:12) Pauls advices christians to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. God will always work in us to bring us in the right position of righteousness but He needs our cooperation and obedience. If one becomes like Demas who eventually loved and returned to his previous sinful life then he will not enter into eternal life. Remember Lot's wife. If one has love for this sinful world in his heart he won't be able to follow Jesus till the end. His love for other things will deviate him from his goal. If one is a lukewarm christian like the 5 unwise virgins of the known parable then he will be left out of the Marriage etc.

God Blessings

This is a good passage Brenda, that clearly highlights the condition of many calling themselves 'Christian', but are not. In fact, Revelation 3:1-6, speaks about the Church in Sardis, that was in its death throes. They "had a name" in their community, but were in fact a defeated Church, entertaining sin, & about to expire. But, Jesus says, 'there were a few among them (only a few) that remained pure from engaging in evil - and these were worthy to be with Him.'

So in verse 5, Jesus speaks about those who are true believers & are victors (overcomers) & there names are secure in the Book of Life. I looked at the Greek for "I will not blot out his name", and there seems to be an emphasis there, rendering it as 'I will 'no not' blot out his name'. We know from Ephesians 1:4-14, that those who belong to Jesus have been chosen, predestined to adoption, having received redemption, an inheritance, and been sealed with the Holy Spirit. That speaks to us of complete security in Christ.

Unfortunately, most in the Sardis Church were still carnal unregenerate folk & they were told to set things right in their hearts lest they face judgement. But a few were true to the Lord & kept themselves clean - these ones were secure in Christ & their names indelibly inscribed in the Book of Life. So does that mean that some can have their names blotted out & at some future date be rewritten back in, etc. etc.? I understand that Jesus is emphasizing the fact that it is an impossibility for true believers (those fully trusting in the Lord & walking in His Spirit) to have their names removed - once written, never, no never blotted out.

Hi Evelyn...Good question about the 2 men and the 2 women....But they are actually just 1 person that have been bornagain of an incorruptible seed,...even by the word of God...But satan has sowed a Tare in them making them 2 ppl....they are involved in a war with satan the Tare...Remember Jesus said that the kingdom of God suffers violence....The Wheat and the Tares are in a WAR IN EACH PERSON that is bornagain of an incorruptible seed...Simply b/c Satan is gonna sow a tare in us with the wheat....Its KiNGDOM AGAINST kINGDOM....The Tare is satan's seed but the Wheat is Jesus seed....Thats y Paul was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...O wretched MAN THAT I AM...Paul had become 2 ppl...But with my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin....2 PPL was in Paul spiritually speaking

.....But Jesus said to let them GROW TOGETHER ( 2 PPL ) till the HARVEST..Then i will say to the reapers gather up the Tares and burn them but gather the Wheat to my barn....His kingdom

..... Rev 22:11....He that is unjust let him be unjust still...He that is filthy let him be filthy still...Thats the Tare within us with the WHEAT

......He that is Righteous let him be righteous still....He that is Holy let him be Holy still....Thats the Wheat with in us....And behold i come quickly and my reward is with me....The reapers are gonna gather the Tares and burn them....But the Wheat goes to his barn the Kingdom.

.....So the 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been bornagain of an incorruptible seed...But the Tares makes him another man.

......And the 2 women are just 1 woman that has been bornagain that are grinding at the mill ..But the Tares and the wheat make her 2 women.

......There is no way we can have the Wheat ( That Good seed ) ..Without having to go thru a warfare with satan the Tares that bad seed....And they have to grow together till the time of the harvest....Thats y Jesus was saying he that endures to the end shall be saved...The Harvest.

I love Isaiah and KJV but why do I not understand all I read . Pray for me that I will get understanding