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You asked,
Why can't both verses be true?
I do believe both verses are true.
I appreciate very much your input.
I am struggling to understand,
Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?
I did say I do believe we are saved by both.
But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.
And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.
The Bible contradicts itself quite often.
It is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.
For example,
Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)
But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)
Who provoked David, God or Satan?
Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?
And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
Jesus Christ and Salvation and creation is in the bible there is nothing to add to
Or take from it alone is the source of all that is needed , 2 Peter 1:1-10 it is the
Knowledge of God. P.S. Mormons believe their bloodline is pure impossible
All became sinful in Genesis after the downfall. Also supposedly an angel
Showed a man books of Mormon the problem with that Galatians 1:6-12.
Food for thought.
Thank you for your insight.
Growing up my dad (God rest his soul) used that Scripture a lot to stop my belief in Mormonism.
Galatians is used to say, Joseph Smith, received another gospel from an angel.
And I believe that Scripture is true.
But after much, painstaking, countless discussions and endless readings of the Bible, I came to the conclusion to say to my dad,
But the Book of Mormon/Mormonism isn't another gospel; otherwise, I wouldn't believe it.
No doctrine in the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible.
I can say that with complete confidence in my faith in Jesus Christ.
The Book of Mormon has enhanced my belief in the Bible.
Nevertheless, I put the Bible before the Book of Mormon because the Bible contains the Blood of Christ.
And if something is taught that is not in the Bible, I will dismiss it.
I agree that some perceive these as conflicting verses, but just because some assume something is contradictory does not make it so.
Why can't both verses be true?
Ephesians 2:8-9 is true that we are saved by grace alone through faith and James 2:17 is also true that faith without works is dead. Why exactly can't these both be true? The entire chapter of James 2 already explains this. For instance James 2:18 "...shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." Isn't it possible that faith and belief is like an overall umbrella and the fruit are good deeds and works that can flow through as a result of genuine faith? And if no works, then it would be like the parable of the sower in Luke 8. The scriptures do not contradict each other.
Romans 2 also explains this. Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
People seem to like to cherry pick and pluck out only Ephesians 2:8-9 and ignore James 2:17. Or, some may pluck out only James 2:17 and ignore Ephesians 2:8-9. But the reality is it is both. Both are God's word and both are true. All of the scriptures must be taken cohesively in context.
I believe this can happen with other topics too. For instance, yes, someone can just read John 3:16, and conclude that only "believing" is all someone needs. While true, it's assumed it's genuine belief is active and would also include Acts 2:38, which introduces more actions such as repenting, and being baptized. These are not contradictions as some may assume. They instead compliment each other and are both true. People can get a simple understanding with light reading of broad statements and a deeper understanding by deeper study. I think this is by design. Some believe the Bible is a living Word of God and that the more we read that God can supernaturally reveal more and more insights that we didn't notice the first time.
One of my brothers is in ICU. This is probably his third heart attack in the last 25-30 years.
He has three dependents:
Wife and two daughters.
Please pray for his recovery.
His name is Shyam Kishor
Age: 40s
Location: Pune
Thanks and regards,
Jyoti
Since God's providecse didn't allow for any other writtings, like the epistle to the church of Laodicea, to remain till nowadays, that means that they had nothing more to offer to the church. Anything that is necessary for our salvation is written in the Old and New Testaments. Many have claimed that God sent them to bring new teachings in the world but please read what apostle Paul says to Galatians 1:6-9
"6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let
him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be
accursed."
GBU
Do you believe what the Bible says about there being lost/missing Scripture?
The book of Nathan the prophet, the book of Gad the seer. ( 1 Chronicles 29:29)
The epistle from Laodicea ( Colossians 4:16)
And of the things which Jesus did, John said if they should be written every one, I suppose even the world could not contain the books that should be written. ( John 21:25)
Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, ( Numbers 21:14)
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. ( Joshua 10:13)
And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? ( 1 Kings 11:41)
Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat? ( 2 Chronicles 9:29)
Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually. ( 2 Chronicles 12:15)
If there is lost/missing Scripture, than there must be more knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on this planet.
I believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon because the doctrines therein are the same, nothing waving.
Otherwise, I would not believe the Book of Mormon.
The Bible is my main source for truth.
I there are other writings claiming to be of the God of Israel, I will certainly take that into consideration and compare the doctrines to what the Bible says and if there is a contradiction, I will know the doctrines are not of the God of Israel.
I can find no contradictions.
Mary and Father God.
Do you believe the Bible is 100% true and is God's word?
Yes, I do Adam.
If so, do you believe Jesus is the Word as it says in John 1:14 and that He is God and created everything as it says in John 1:1-3?
Yes, I do Adam.
And do you believe Ephesians 2:8-9 is true that we're saved by grace and not by works?
I believe both writings of James and Paul, meaning, we are saved by both grace and works because the two apostles contradict each other.
Going back to your first question,
Do you believe the Bible is 100% true and is God's word?
Yes, meaning, I don't believe Paul over James nor James over Paul but I believe both are teaching true doctrines making the entire Bible 100% true.
Paul says,
We are saved by grace through faith and not by works for if it is by works it is no more grace. (Ephesians and Romans)
Grace comes through faith...
And James says,
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ( James 2:26)
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ( James 2:17)
The only conclusion to these doctrines and believing the Bible 100% and not just parts of it would be to say we are saved both by works and grace.
Making what the Book of Mormon prophet Nephi says,
We are saved by grace, after all we can doa true doctrine.
And solidifying Isaiah's doctrine which says,
They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine. ( Isaiah 29:24)
Which, I believe, is speaking about the Book of Mormon.
Adam, do you believe Paul is correct? and do you believe James is also correct?
I'm a truth seeker too and believe the Bible. I am interested in what you believe about these 3 questions...
Do you believe the Bible is 100% true and is God's word?
If so, do you believe Jesus is the Word as it says in John 1:14 and that He is God and created everything as it says in John 1:1-3?
And do you believe Ephesians 2:8-9 is true that we're saved by grace and not by works?
God bless
This reminds us of Gideon when he asked the angel whose side are you on and he said "the Lord's side." ( Joshua 5:13-15). As with anything else the attitudes of the heart are more important than a surface level of the law. Or; in order to do what was expected "obedience is better than sacrifice." ( 1 Samuel 15:22). This is why certain functions were only done by priests. Christ Himself; of course was fully God and fully man; certainly the Creator could do as He wished. Mercy and compassion were used over and over to the obstinate Pharisees who Christ would frequently bother doing miracles on the Sabbath. Luke 14:5 shows that compassion to an animal is a "work" that someone with compassion would do if an animal fell in a pit. ( Proverbs 12:10-12).
The law until the church was established was still in effect; and people were told to do what was required but not the way the Pharisees did as they were full of hypocrisy. ( Matthew 23:23). The law now was summarized by Christ by loving God with all your heart; soul; mind and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself ( Luke 10:27). We are asked now in the N.T. NOT to follow "holy days" and such ( Galatians 4:9-10). Some say there is controversy there; but it is clear that Paul did meet on the first day of the week ( Acts 20:7); and collections were to be prepared that day ( 1 Cor. 16:2). At the very least; the Son of man being lord of the Sabbath trumps any earlier Sabbath laws since we are under a New Covenant as to having to meet Saturdays.
It would appear that Sunday worship was established; although I will not argue that it is to be substituted for what was Saturday worship; or it is wrong any day to gather for corporate worship. The effect of the law certainly doesn't bring a death penalty. However; many laws that did (the clearest being murder) hasn't helped society today with it's lawlessness; clearly.
Once He comes in the Millennium; He will rule with a rod of iron and enforce law.
In David's case where he had Uriah the Hittite sent to the front lines to plan his death which was complicit to murder; as well as committing adultery previously with Bathsheeba was also not forgivable according to the law. Since David was said to be a man after God's own heart; the Prophet Nathan indicated that he wouldn't die; but for the sake of not having reproach from their enemies the child would die. ( 2 Sam. 12:14). It is interesting that God uses that for reasoning. The Hittites were the enemies of Israel who were to be destroyed when entering in the Promised Land. Yet Uriah was a righteous man; probably converted to being a Jew. This meant that satisfaction of justice had to benefit his enemies because God's people can't have double standards.
subject of the scripture is the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. So if
You seek the truth there is no other book on earth that has spiritually the
Truth.
What God has done through Christ it is gift of eternal life holy spirit, so how
Can you lose what you didn't earn. Better yet if you have a child he starts out
Being a great kid but then does things unprofitable isn't he still your son?
Therefore when we are born again spiritually that cannot be lost, God is not
An Indian giver you may choose not to walk but that's not God's fault if we do not
Obey.
Favor God to man) that when he saw fit sent messengers I.E. Angels to stand
And fight or teach or minister people who were endeavoring to believe to bring
His will to pass. Also since spirit beings don't procreate what's the point of
Female angels or better yet what difference would it make, another point just
Because there never mentioned in scripture doesn't mean they don't exist.
And the following comments are not intended to cause contention but rather create a discussion in the contents and passages within the Bible.
And, I, being a believer of the Book of Mormon and a seeker of the truth, believe the words of God to Ezekiel are speaking of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and I'm interested in your thoughts
Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: ( Ezekiel 37:16)
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. ( Ezekiel 37:19)
And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. ( Ezekiel 37:17)
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: ( Ezekiel 37:22)
The stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph becoming on stick to gather Isreal.
The writings of the prophets in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 5:16) knew there genealogy being from the tribe of Joseph.
Therefore, with much certainty, the book of Judah is the Bible and Book of Mormon is the stick of Joseph, I believe.
What are your thoughts?
Furthermore, Isaiah also saw the coming forth of the Book of Mormon saying,
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed( Isaiah 29:11)
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. ( Isaiah 29:18)
The book of Nathan the prophet, the book of Gad the seer. ( 1 Chronicles 29:29)
The epistle from Laodicea ( Colossians 4:16)
And of the things which Jesus did, John said if they should be written every one, I suppose even the world could not contain the books that should be written. ( John 21:25)
Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, ( Numbers 21:14)
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. ( Joshua 10:13)
And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? ( 1 Kings 11:41)
Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat? ( 2 Chronicles 9:29)
Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually. ( 2 Chronicles 12:15)