All Discussion PAGE 91

I will Pray, do not worry trust on the Lord. Hayle the Lord our God knows everything, He

cares for you.

Matt.18:13 "Joy in heaven" (2 of 2)

The same hour is a tag set by the Spirit so comparing spiritual with spiritual we are on the right track to explain the two witnesses in terms of Jesus Christ. "And the same hour was there a great earthquake,"(Re.11:13) for instance is the duration of his ministry and the two witnesses are part of his earthly ministry. In short the work of the Son as the Word become flesh has to incorporate the divine will of the Father. One cannot be without the other since it explains the rationale of Father who revealed the testimony through an angel as in Re.1:1. It is the glorious gospel of Christ covering two worlds of the Spirit and of the body. Everlasting gospel is another name. Consequently when Jesus rejoiced as quoted from the Lucan gospel refers to the babes, they have their presence before God. Hence Jesus warns,"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."(18:10)

"And he to whom the Son will reveal him"( Luke 10:22). Jesus as the Good Shepherd came to save the lost. In delivering man who is dead in sin and trespasses he reveals the mercy of his Father. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins/Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." (Ep.2:1-2) What is the significance of quickening one who is dead? Everlasting life proof of which is the believer and his angel in the presence of the Father are aligned without any distortion. "the third part of the stars of heaven" being cast out is how the believers in this world have handled the truth in unrighteousness. How we walk the talk has grave consequences on the cloud of witnesses. (Re.12:4) This explains the joy in heaven over the one sheep lost and found.

Matt.18:13 "Joy in heaven" (1of 2)

"Verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray." The Spirit is referring the Son who is the Good Shepherd. He is the visible image of the invisible God so all emotions attributed to God must be seen as coming from the Son.

Similarly the Spirit refers to an hour which is with reference to the ministry of Jesus Christ. "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight./ All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."( Luke 10:21-22)

Jesus at the Marriage at Cana referred,"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."( John 2:4). By the same token he is referring to the wine which is distinctly with reference to the kingdom to come, " But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."(26:29) It is thus the Spirit has organized the Salvation Program of God giving a tag for his ministry and his Father's kingdom. When he explains his work he tells his captors, "but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." Comparing spiritual with spiritual we are on the right track to explain the two witnesses in terms of Jesus Christ. "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:" the same hour is the duration of his ministry and the two represents the testimony of the Son which his Father. It is same as in Re.1:1. It is the glorious gospel of Christ covering two worlds of the Spirit and of the body. Everlasting gospel is another name.

Hello Momsage,

That scripture that's crystal clear what it means and your response is that you'll pray for me to come to a different understanding of that verse rather than what it means? You said to read the rest of the chapter. Have you? Are you sure you aren't confusing being washed clean by Jesus (forgiven) with assuming you have no sin?

Let's analyze the context of this verse in great detail before and after verse 8.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is talking about Christians (Christ followers) because they walk in the light. It says if we walk in the light Jesus's blood cleanses us from sin, indicating that Christians have sin. If there was no sin in the first place nothing would need to be cleaned. It does not say its a one time thing either, then we're eternally perfect. The very next verse refutes that idea.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Someone who says they have no sin is a liar according to God's Word. You just said you were without sin. Could you be confusing being cleansed of sin with having no sin in the first place?

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This reiterates that we can have our sins forgiven and that we all sin, and this says we as Christians need to confess our sins.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This states the important verse 8 again, saying anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar. Do you feel you are being honest by what you said about being sinless? These verses condemn what you said. But fortunately, like it says in v9 is says you can confess your sin and be cleansed if you are walking in the light verse 7.

Praise God for His Word and how clear and easy this is to apply to our lives.

I'm a Christian who DOESN'T sin, your a Christian who DOES sin and you say I need to find God's truth? Isn't that backwards?

Whatever.

Matt.18:13 "Lost and Found" (2 of 2)

Holiness of God is a name, glory of which is invested in his testimony which is the glorious gospel entrusted to his Son. So when He sent his only begotten Son what is the Will of God? " Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." His concern is for the glory of everlasting life that the one sheep carries. God so loved the world is to bring the glory of the cloud of witnesses match exactly with those who are in the world of the body.

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."( John 17:6)

"That they may be one" is what the ministry of reconciliation yet remaining. "And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them./And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are".(vv.10-11).And when Jesus Christ says,"It is done" it is a signal that way to the tree of life is found. "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb./In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life."(Re.22:1-2)

Matt.18:13 "Lost and Found" (1 of 2)

"And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray."

Jesus Christ as the Good Shepherd. God sent his Son so the lost sheep may be found. Bringing them back into one fold means reconciling both worlds of the Spirit and of the body into one sheepfold. ( John 10:1)

We shall begin with v.11" For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."(v.11).

If the sheep lost its way and have not found what it sought is it worth the effort? A sheep is not endowed with foreknowledge as man is. He is a living soul. Satan beguiled Eve through a serpent. How did man get lost even after God gave him the wherewithal? The content of His breath into his nostril sums up the Law that He upholds. It is the word of his power. It explains the Law of the Spirit. The principle of Similitude sets reality of Law of heaven with that of the earth. Thus it is two contrary laws of the Spirit warring the law of sin in our vile bodies nevertheless a matter of life and death. In this existential battle everlasting life is what God promised those who are found.

The Spirit uses symbols for both laws, the tree of life for those who found their way back as we say from the case of Adam life of sin originating from his disobedience. This search for the lost sheep began with the commandment of God who sent forth his word that shall never go back in void.(Is.55:11)

In the parable we have the sheep that is ever by the shepherd. "And the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out./And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice./And a stranger will they not follow" ( John 10:3-5). They are the 99 and are content under the Law of the Spirit to stay close "for they know not the voice of strangers." Their glory they know are in safekeeping and the bright cloud is their testimony.

Please remember me and my daughters in your prayers today

Matt.18: 11-13 "Lost"

"And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray." A sheep is most likely to wander away in a rugged terrain where the grass is sparse; the shepherd's task is to keep his flock in his sights and wild animals are not likely to dare show themselves while man is about. " For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."(v.11)

Satan beguiled Eve through a serpent. How did man get lost. God gave them a straight and narrow path. But when the serpent could get them out of their way and look at the way Satan had presented the alternate reality, and it can open a new vista as the word says,"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." It opened the way to another law."And the eyes of them both were opened,"(v.7) The way of the senses, tell a story, end of which is death as God had warned them. The tree of life was where the Law of the Spirit led to. It was a simple test of walking the straight narrow path but man failed. They let Satan to lead and they were lost.

In Adam we all are set in an alternate reality, a make-believe world, " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."(Ro.3:23). Where law of sin like a wolf roams about we shall appreciate God's counset to Cain. "And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."(Ge.4:6-7)

How come Cain could not take it. He was the wicked one a murderer since he let the spur of the moment direct his actions. (4:8) He had no respect for eternity. It is how the law of sin works.

John is talking about being born again. Verse 8 is a warning that if a person who declares they aren't a sinner that they are a liar. My poor mother believed that way. I suggest you read all of 1st, 2nd, 3rd John all the way through with a heartfelt prayer asking GOD to show you the truth. God Bless :)

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So Romans 7:15-17 comes to the fore, where Paul shares his hatred for sin, yet the sin nature surfaces causing him to trip up & sin. I know that I can never be like Jesus, i.e. without a sin nature, but who am I to believe that I can be better than that great apostle who lived such a fully Christ-centered life, even to the point of suffering & martyrdom.

I intended to respond to the Scriptures you gave, but seeing that you've failed to respond to my earlier brief exegete on Romans 6 (which you shared), I believed that you were more interested in airing your beliefs (with supporting Scriptures) rather than towards scriptural examination. It's one thing to expect comment on the Scriptures one provides, but when there's no rebuttal or agreement provided in return, then one is left curious & amazed to the person's intention in all this. So, I'll leave it here Momsage & may the Lord lead you into His Truth & the reality of what sin really is - not simply faults or failings in this life. GBU

Or maybe it's talking about people who won't listen to the gospel message because they don't believe they are sinners so they don't need Forgiveness from Jesus. My mother believed that way. A lot of people believe they are a good person and don't believe in sin.

Page 1.

Hello Momsage. Not sure where you're coming from or going with this - but you are entitled to form your impression about me, especially as you seem to have gleaned from my comments, that I am giving licence to all on this forum to continue committing sin! If that's what you've understood, then I do feel sad that our extended discussion has brought on such a determination. Maybe you should re-read my other comments on this very important matter & especially, my other reference to the Apostle Paul who declared that he not only faced the ongoing battle with sin but also lived at times, in defeat.

You had earlier quoted from Romans chapter 6, and to this I gave some detail on specific verses. Then I wrote about Paul & his struggle (in Romans chapter 7). Did you read this chapter? I received no comments from you as to how you can believe that Paul was sinless (as you claim you are sinless), when he finally cried out in Romans 7:24,25: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin". This is not Paul talking only about his life as a Jew & a teacher of the Law (without Christ), but of his life now as he struggles with desiring total obedience to God & the Law of Sin which is IN HIS MEMBERS (v23). Why should he write, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Was he concerned that his physical body was deteriorating & in the throes of death, or was he deeply concerned about the sin nature & sin that surfaced in his life? Yet, he found that his deliverance from this dilemma of the old nature vs the new nature was only found in Christ Jesus. His heart & mind was only God-ward - but his body inclined to sin because of the sin nature within. This paragraph continues on Page 2.

You didn't explain with other scriptures why you disagree with me.

You didn't answer any of my questions.

Our thoughts on sinlessness or sinning every day are total opposites so one of us must be wrong and I don't care what you think except you are spilling it out all over this forum and I'm concerned about others. The title of sinning/christian seems to be a badge of honor these days, (anyone like me must be full of pride and haughtiness because, how dare I think I can live without grieving my Savior every day by sinning.)

I'm writing this at the end of the day. You say I must have sinned. Give me some ideas of what I must have done because I can't think of anything not even a fault. Maybe I should make something up like I use to do when I was a little Catholic girl so I would have something to confess to the priest so I could take communion.

How glad I am you've help me to not be deceived anymore, to think that God had created a beautiful way for His children to live WITHOUT sin in this wretched world. Really, I have to be realistic now, this can't possibly be true. I need to understand that what I believed was wrong because surly God isn't capable of removing the Adamic nature from our souls. I understand now that that is a bit too much for Him. Imagine being able to live with our sin-nature eradicated. I guess I'll just ignore all the scriptures that say we can like you did. I'm being sarcastic, of course. I guess this can be my one sin for the day so I'll ask God to forgive me for it. Thanks Chris you helped me be a sinning/christian. You helped me grieve my wonderful Savior today so I can claim the title of Sinning/Christian. NOT!

My heart really grieves for you and the danger you are in, especially, since you won't even address what I am saying with scriptures and/or answers to my legitimate questions. You don't because you can't. God bless :)

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8 KJV

This verse is 100% clear what it means. It's calling someone deceived and dishonest if they say they are without sin.

Hello Andrea,

My name is Carol and I wanted to tell you that I will be praying for you as you seek to share Christ with your friends. Wow, I think it is awesome that you are desiring to be evangelistic at 10 years old! What a blessing to hear that. If I may also share some advice, I would tell you to be patient, study the scriptures regarding the gospel and pray to the Lord for guidance and for the Holy Spirit to give you opportunities to be His light. God Blees you!

Hello Sister,

I have read your request and will be praying. I would like to highly recommend a small, simple book by Bob George called "Classic Christianity ". It would hit the spot for where it sounds like you are at. I also encourage you to frustrated, as what you are going through is normal. What helps me is to pray for others going through what you are, or for other matters. This is a perfect place for that:). Carry on in Christ! Carol

Psalm 40:3 kjv.

help me do better in the lord

Please pray for me to overcome the seizure I had.Also the patience to self catherderize.Losing patience with everything going wrong at once.

Pray, ask God for forgiveness and ask Him to take the desire for sin from you, tell Him you love Him so completely that you no longer want to sin, that you want to live a life fully dedicated to Him without sin. (It is the nature of Adam, the old man that we are born with that causes us to sin but sanctification can rid us of our Adamic nature, all at once completely. Be sincere and when you are sanctified you will feel a joy and peace you have never known. Then ask Him to fill you with the Holy Ghost. If it's in His will it will happen. Be worshipful and trust God. Just continue to pray and talk to God. He will begin to take over your speech and you will start to speak in an unknow tongue. This cannot be the devil, as some people may say, you are in God's hands and He is NOT going to let the devil have any power over you. Those fanatics on social media are of the devil. He is using them to keep people away from this beautiful gift form God; to malign it. Here are scriptures that I hope will help you understand that this doctrine is from God. John 5:14, Col. 3:9, Rom. 6:1-7, 2 Cor. 5:17, Rom. 12:2, John 3:1-10, Rom. 6:10-11, Rom. 8:12-13, 2 Tim. 2:15.

This reply is probably going to get a lot of comments denouncing what I have said. I have lived with the infilling of the Holy Spirit for decades and I am a true child of God who loves Him dearly and I live every day for Him without sin. I do have faults. Sins send us to hell. Faults, are minor character flaws; these do not send us to hell. People who believe in the sinning/christian doctrine refuse to see the difference. Calling someone a bad name IS a sin but if that person upsets you and you just leave while praying for them, the sinning/christian doctrine teaches that since you got upset you sinned. Jesus said darkness and light don't mix. If you have questions about my stand on the false doctrines of gradual sanctification and sinning/christian please let me know. I hope this helps you. God Bless :)

Thanks Momsage. Again, reading them & the Scriptures you've given in support, I can see that we won't find agreement when the Word tells us 'to be dead to sin, crucified with Him, etc'. Not only do such phrases tell us of our attitude to sin & pursuit of it, but also of our standing before God as righteous ones. So the question, 'should we then consider ourselves as sinless, striving to maintain that status, or should we consider ourselves as still sinners, saved, sanctified, accepted by God, awaiting that day when we will finally leave this body of sin & death?'

I know we understand 'sinlessness' differently. You stated at the outset, that "we can't be like Adam was in the Garden of Eden before he sinned", and it is here that we differ. I believe that Adam, before his fall was sinless (not a trace of sin there). For us to be sinless, means that we HAVE to also be in that state as Adam was, even as our Lord was and is. I'm sorry, I can't define 'sinlessness' in any other way. Just a speck of sin in us makes us sinners. Just as a minute drop of color in a swimming pool of clean water, adulterates that pool - you probably won't see the change in the pool's color or level of adulteration, but it's still there. And so while we're in these bodies, sin & it's propensity to do so, will always be with us. I think the only way to hold to the belief of sinlessness, would be to discount certain things we do each day as not being sinful - just human faults. But as I stated before, "Whatever is not of the Lord, not in His Character, & can't be expressed by Him, is sin". And I doubt if anyone can claim that they have now attained/regained, that Holy Image of God of being without sin.

Re: sending your comments in order. For multiple pages, reply to the most pertinent comment, post it & then wait for a few seconds until this Site's engine accepts it (so that your comment appears at the top). Then post your second page in reply to your first page - this keeps them in order.

The first one starts with "Of course, we can't be like Adam. The rest can actually be read in any order. Obviously the last one ends with my sign out. Sorry :)

Acts 2:1-4 is next

1 Corinthians 3: 16-17

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Ephesians 4:23

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:9

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "

2 Corinthians: 517

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Colossians 3:9-10

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."

Romans 12:2

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

God Bless :)

I just feel like I have so much put on me at the moment. I would love for a moment where i could get a prayer towards me. I try to sit down and talk to the lord. I try and do everything right, but I dont know what it is. No matter how hard I try to be good, i just end up doing bad. I need to be forgiven. I need peace. I need love. And I need patience.

I will pray. Trust on the Lord.

I am 10 year old, and I go to a christian church. And I wanted to ask if people can pray that God helps me guide mi friends to him.

1 Corinthians 3: 16-17

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Ephesians 4:23

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:9

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "

2 Corinthians: 517

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Colossians 3:9-10

"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."

Romans 12:2

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

God Bless :)

Sorry Chris, these comments are all mixed up. I don't know how to send them in order all together. Would you tell me how?

God Bless :)