All Discussion PAGE 934

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And 1 John 4:3, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." John, as the other apostles, were dealing with an early Docetic heresy which claimed that 'deity cannot unite with the material (e.g. a body)'. Everyone there believed in Jesus' existence on Earth (they saw & heard Him & history records it for us today), but not all believed that this Christ came from God & took on flesh. The false teachers entered the Church then to teach this lie, & had to be refuted.

Does this bother me, that believers over the ages, denied the Deity of Christ? It does indeed, but people can believe what they want about this, for only to God we are answerable. But as I stated earlier, for me (personally), this doctrine is extremely vital, for my salvation & faith firmly hangs onto it. Thus I believe that it must be presented, even if only to refute false teaching. Others can be the judge of what is Truth. Maybe you feel all this debate is unwarranted & unnecessary, but I believe the biblical pattern is to defend the Truth. If I am in error, then please, you or anyone, from Scripture, expose it so that I can consider those verses. But if Truth doesn't matter, or even to discuss it, then why are we even here, or does it even matter in what we believe?

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Thanks David. I hear what you're saying, that "God looks at the heart and not the intellect; that agreement on all beliefs is not required for God to work." And I agree with you.

When the need (or, question) has arisen that requires a response to help one grow in love or in their "walk with God", then yes, there's no need to initiate a discussion/debate on how one understands that this can happen. It will just be opinions on how one has found their love or growth has increased, and this can vary & be specific to each one of us.

And yes, "we don't fight (or even need to fight) for God or His Word"; if by that you mean, that both God & His Word remain eternally consistent & true & what man may offer in contradiction, will never alter the facts. But what happens when the Word is believed but the Truths within it are being compromised, altered, or incorrectly taught? I hear one say, 'don't let that bother you - God is in control - His Word stands sure - His Spirit will guide into all Truth'.

Then why should the apostles have bothered about the health of Christ's Church & be perturbed about false doctrines/teachings entering in? Such as, 2 Peter 2:1-3 (false prophets/teachers); Romans 16:17,18 (wrong doctrine brought in, causing divisions); 2 Timothy 2:17,18 (no future resurrection, destroying the believers' faith); Galatians 1:6-9 (another Gospel); Some of 1st John (refuting Gnostic teaching); core verses in 1 John 2:22,23: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. And onto 1 John 4:3 (next page).

I will state that the Egyptians were spoiled; but sadly all the gold earrings were used with the golden calf before proper worship began and the tabernacle was built. Later on; of course the whole temple was built. All of these things of course are patterned after heaven; where it will be in the "sides of the north". That could be the part of the sky where heaven is located; and/or in heaven itself where God's throne is located.

There are some interesting concepts with Melchizedek and the fact that somehow true worship wasn't limited to those who were to be the descendants of Abraham; that is in the bloodline of the Jewish nation. This shows; when we study the origin of nations that indeed before pagan worship there was true worship at least in some places AFTER the flood. We can see something to the effect that the boundaries of the nations were divided as per the sons of Israel ( Deut 32:8).

I am going to say some very deep thoughts here. First off; we must consider carefully the image of the beast and his worship that will come. We must remember that Satan came from where he was walking in the midst of the stones of fire ( Ezekiel 28:14-16). The whole pattern; and ornate wealth will doubtless endow the Antichrist in the beginning of the Tribulation as the woman rides the beast in all her glory. (See Habukkuk 2:9-14; Daniel 11:39; Daniel 11:43). No doubt there will be an amalgamation of religions then of course later Antichrist destroys the woman for worship of himself. This shows why we should have no graven images of God. The mind of man cannot fathom these things; and sadly will fall for the man of sin in the Temple.

We shall indeed have things in heaven but also on earth to look forward to; restored and with Satan's influence at last restrained completely. Finally; the veil will be lifted off all nations ( Isaiah 25:7). I do believe in a Millennial Temple; although would think in eternity there will be no more death of animals.

Sir/Ma'am,

Is there a question in there somewhere? I think Sam Cook took the 100 pounds of clay and made a bullfrog named Jeremiah.

Your reliance on the Holy Spirit is you strength. We have to find out who He is to us. He is the Spirit of Jesus.

I learned a lot from studying Paul's life. He was miraculously saved! He thought he should go meet the Disciples in Jerusalem. Didn't quite go as he planned. Jesus sent Paul out into a desert with the Holy Spirit for 3 years! Anything presumptive was dealt with. So this applies to us too (sometimes). We have to be willing to go to the desert if Jesus chooses that. We don't.

If you are chosen to be a ministry gift (Prophet, Teacher, Pastor, Evangelist, missionary) the you need to sit with one of those gifts to see if that is where the Holy Spirit says to be "for a season".

Jesus did no miracles until he was anointed in Luke 4:18

( Isaiah 61). Receive the Holy Spirit to be your Teacher:

1Corinthians 12. 1 Cor. 14:12, 14:38-40.

One thing I never did as a streetevangelist is to pray for salvation for someone on a sidewalk, and leave them in the "blood of new spiritual birth." I called them the next day or day before Sunday; and offered rides to my church. I dressed as they dressed. We sat together on the pews. Some I took them to meet Pastor or see about water baptism if they wanted to be baptized.

Some came to spaghetti dinners at my house. Always lots of fun with music, and testimonies sometimes. I always remember how I was saved. I lost all my good time party buddies; they didn't want to go to church with me :(

I picked a Baptist church thinking it would be less scary. As it happened the Holy Spirit was there. The sermon was "the curse of the Occult." Music minister gave a word of knowledge about someone who WAS in the occult for decades. Come forward. I did. I was healed of all kinds of pain. A Baptist lady told me 75 times I was FORGIVEN.

Trust the Holy Spirit to help you in what you need. Ask for what you need. Let go of pride and false shame.

Streetpreacher

Have a wonderful vacay, Giannis.

Scripture is the bottom line, period. Add your faith in God.

Jesus took back from Satan; what he stole from Adam and Eve. Authority, power and dominion. All Satan has is deception. We exercise our faith in the name of Jesus, and give glory to God. We have authority to pray in the Name of Jesus.

Read of the miracles the Disciples testified of, in the Bible.

It's your faith on God and your hand upon the sick; and the authority of Jesus inside of us; heals.

Yes, S.Spencer, that would be a good topic for a new thread. It was discussed in recent weeks, I believe. I have been researching this topic a bit since that prior discussion.

Feel free to begin a new thread. I am interested in hearing what others say on this.

David,

Agreed. When I post on my Bible reading (no in Exodus) I am not proposing that what I write is necessarily correct interpretation nor am I not open for correction and elaboration from others. As you said, some of it comes down to simply opinion or understanding with my limited knowledge or lack of training in the original languages or customs of the Biblical time periods.

So, I don't mind at all if someone 'calls me out" on what I write. I am simply going through the chapter, paraphrasing what I am understanding, and trying to convey connections I discover between the chapter under review and other portions of Scripture and doctrine that I know. So, feel free to interject anytime. I am so fallible! And I guess, I don't feel inhibited about sharing this way. Others may not be so open as I am. But I feel if I do not share my ideas with other believers, I will not be in a place to be corrected or instructed by someone who knows much more than myself.

Have a good evening, David, thank you for "chiming in".

Hi Ronald,

Good to hear from you today.

I just wanted to speak about the verse that says that Jesus is the beginning of all creation.

Some think that this means that Jesus is a created being-the first being created by God. I do not think this verse is saying that.

I think that this verse is saying the Jesus is the genesis of all things-the source that created all things-the uncaused first cause.

T. Levi's

I guess I must be naive or just actually believe that people are being honest on this site, but I have not felt "set-up" by anyone on here, and if I truly was, then I see that being led to respond to any post is an opportunity to bring Spirt-led responses to this forum. I think that is true for anyone reading-they can prayerfully respond and trust that their responses will bless others if one's words are truly Spirit-led.

I know that there are what are called "trolls" on sites like this-those who want to debate or incite another's ire or get someone's goat and elicit responses. But I think most people on here give measured, thoughtful, compassionate, gracious responses even to those who seem to be speaking rudely.

Exodus 25

The Lampstand foreshadows Jesus as the true vine (central shaft) and the church as the branches who derive their life and fruitfulness from the vine as long as they remain attached to the vine. It represents the Tree of Life, that gives eternal life to those who eat of it (another foreshadowing of Jesus and the cross.

The fact that all of these items for this part of the tabernacle (the Most Holy Place and Holy of Holies) are all made of pure gold represents the divinity, pureness, and perfection of God. There is no amalgamated metal in these items-only gold is used. The gold also depicts the immense worth of God, being the most precious metal on earth. This also represents that the Most Holy Place and Holy of Holies are the realm of the Divine Presence-of which Jesus is worthy to enter and represent us, mediate for us, and pray to the Father for us. He brings us to the Father in Himself. We are united with Him and part of His body now, washed and re-created by the Holy Spirit. There is no outside light in these places, just the light of the Lampstand (Jesus-the true Light of the Universe).

The Scriptures say that the Father dwells in inapproachable light. We would not survive seeing Him. No one has seen the Father, except the eternal Son-Jesus-who is God and man in one Person forever-our perfect Savior, and the One Whom we will see face to face in heaven. Jesus is the Light of the World-we can look upon Him in heaven and still live. But I don't think that we will actually see the Father ever. We will always experience the Presence of God through the Spirit in this life and in Jesus in heaven.

This chapter is so full of pattern, symbol, representation, and foreshadowing, I think it would be hard to exhaust all of the meaning God designed into these items of the tabernacle. I can't wait to discover in heaven what the true reality these patterns and shadows represent in the tabernacle.

Thank you for sharing those further thoughts, T. Levis. We all have choices to make and options in our minds as how to deal with them. Our decisions are often wrongly made from our sensory promptings & not from wisdom (i.e. from a careful scrutiny of available information (not heresay or from powerful influential persons), making correct deductions, which results in a lock-tight response). Unfortunately, those who called for Jesus' death, developed wrong perceptions of Jesus, seeing Him as a threat rather than an answer to their sin & disturbed minds. But God used their unjustified accusations & anger, as with Judas Iscariot as well, to accomplish His great Plan to bring salvation to the very ones who "hated me without a cause." Incomprehensible love indeed.

Exodus 25

continued...

The next item is the golden lampstand (literal meaning of menorah)-not candles, but lamps lit with olive oil. it was to be made of one singular piece of pure gold hammered into shape. The menorah is very intricately designed by YHWH and it would take some skill to create all of the ornamentation out of one piece of gold. It would have a shaft that has one single middle shaft with a lamp on the top and six branches coming out of each side with a lamp on top of each branch. The lampstand bowls are to be made to look like almond blossoms with an ornamental knob and flower for each bowl at the top of each20 years branch and center shaft. They are to be made of the one piece of gold that the whole menorah is to be made from. (I think of Jesus' seamless garment) Lamps are to be made for each bowl along with wick-trimmers and trays (all of pure gold. The lamps are to be fashioned to give light towards the front of it as it will illuminate the table of shewbread. The lampstand is made from one talent of gold (said to be equal to 20 years' worth of wages for one man).

The inside of the Most Holy Place would be dark since it had no windows. The lampstand illuminates the Most Holy Place where the table of shewbread and menorah are placed. The menorah may represent and foreshadow many things. The six arms from each side of the central shaft represent the 12 tribes of Israel (the whole nation) with the central shaft representing YHWH as their guide in the wilderness. The 7 lamps may represent the 7 days of creation or days of the week.

The 7 lamps may foreshadow the seven-fold Spirit of God who enlightens the church. It certainly foreshadows Christ as the Light of the World who gives light to every man. The light of the menorah may represent the light of the Truth of God, the brightness of God's holiness, and the grandeur of the glory of God, the Presence of God among His people.

....continued

Good evening all! Water is life!!! The Lord Jesus freely give us life saving water for with we can not survive!! I pray that the Lord opens up His store house for our birds, squirrel, homeless animal, trees and all of His creation, great and small!! He also states in His word that the sun will shine brighter and begin to scorch us!! Our recent weather has been very intolerable this summer!! I can't imagine what hell would be like for there will be no light, water!! Jesus Christ is the light of this world and the new world to come!!!!! Amen!! Give praise and glory and honor to thank the Lord for all His gifts that He gives us !!! Pray for all who are in the body of Christ!!! He will love us forever and ever!!!!! A sinner!!

Hey David,

Thank you, it is all about faith and the heart.

God bless,

RLW

Jesse. Yep!

S Spencer,

Thank you, be safe traveling, been there done that, don't get to a point you have to pull out your briefcase to verify what city you are in. Agree this subject can be set out, and agree with 1 Cor, 15:45-49 but also agree with Rom. 5:19. Same with John 1:18 John wrote this after Jesus ascended like John 3:13. I agree about the Father, but all scripture tells us of the Son is He is the beginning, nothing was before Him.

Be safe, and God bless.

RLW

Exodus 25

continued...

The gold of the cherubim needed to be heated and beaten to forge them into the shape of the cherubim. They are placed at the (side) ends of the cover with their wings outstretched above the top of the cover with their faces looking down upon this place on top (the Mercy Seat). How the angels desire to look into the mercy and grace of the gospel of Jesus!

These cherubim are to be forged onto the Mercy Seat so that it is all of one piece. YHWH promises to meet with and speak with Moses from upon the Mercy Seat. This tells me that the only way to commune with God is due to Him showing mercy to us. The Mercy Seat is the top of the Ark and covers the Testimony-Book of the Covenant-inside. The Mercy Seat-the Body of Christ-covers the transgressions of the Law that YHWH knows all people will disobey, yet the Law remains untouched, standing true fand good for all time. Some say that the ark represents the throne of God in heaven.

The next item for the tabernacle is the Table for the Shewbread (Bread of the Face or Presence). The table is also made of acacia wood with very specific dimensions, overlaid in pure gold with molding all around the edge. This, too, has four rings attached at the outside corners with wood overlaid in gold poles to go through the rings (and not to be removed). Table is to have a sturdy frame and four legs. Next, the utensils are to be made-pans, pitchers, and bowls-all of pure gold. On the table the shewbread is to always be on this table. The shewbread-unleavened-may be a reminder to the Israelites of the manna given to them in their desert years to sustain them and it also represents Jesus as the Bread of Life we are to eat and live. ( John 6), also, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." We are to feast on the Word, Jesus, ( John 1:1) who came from the Father, as well as the Scripture, that testify to Jesus from start to finish. We need to be nourished by Him continually.

Exodus 25

continued...

This request by YHWH challenges me to be more generous towards God than I have been and reminds me that there are some things in our lives that we should set apart for God's use, not matter how costly, dear to us, or rare. It challenges me to desire to give Him my best, what is valuable, and to be willing to sacrifice freely for His work and will.

YHWH goes on to explain that the tabernacle will be after the pattern that He will show Moses as well as each item will be after the pattern He gives. YHWH does not just say, "Make me a tabernacle and furnish it, both in the way that you see fit to design and make." No, He is very specific about every detail. I think this preciseness is important because of what they represent and what they will be a foreshadowing of when the Messiah comes. The tabernacle is not to be designed by or according to man's ideas, but God's.

YHWH begins first with the making of the furnishings, not the structure of the tabernacle. This may be significant, but I don't have any insights on this.

The first item to be made is the ark. (YHWH had given Noah specific instructions to make the ark before the flood.)

This ark was to be made of the acacia wood with specific dimensions for width, length, and height. The wood was to be overlaid in pure gold, inside and out. I have read that the ark is a representation of Jesus, wood being His humanity, and pure gold being His deity. It would have gold molding all around. There are to be cast rings on the outside of each corner. Two poles of acacia wood overlaid with gold are to be placed in the rings so that the ark can be carried. These poles are not to be removed.

The Testimony-Book of the Covenant- was to be placed within the ark. This may symbolize the perfect law of God fulfilled perfectly by the perfect Messiah.

Next to be made is the Mercy Seat cover. It, too, is to be made of acacia wood overlaid in pure gold. Two gold cherubim that are hammered into shape

Furniture

John 3:36 kjv: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 10:30: I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 6:11-18 kjv.

Revelation 19:11 kjv: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;

and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness

he doth judge and make war.

Hebrews 13:8 kjv: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Exodus 25

This chapter describes the making of items for the tabernacle of meeting in fine detail. The directions are meticulous and exacting, representative of the absolute reality of each item's counterpart in heaven. These are said to be made after a pattern as well as a shadow of what is truly real.

The chapter begins with YHWH telling Moses to speak to the people, asking them to bring an offering to the YHWH voluntarily (God loves a cheerful giver) in a heartfelt way (worshipful). Then YHWH lists the items He asks the people to bring to Moses:

gold, silver, bronze

blue, purple, and scarlet fine linen

goat's hair, ram's skins (dyed red), badger skins

acacia wood, oil, spices

onyx, and various stones

YHWH reveals the purpose of these things offered is to make a tabernacle (sanctuary) (place of worship and meeting with YHWH) so that He may dwell among the Israelites.

YHWH is asking the people to bring to him costly things or rare things. Most of the metals were from the jewelry and items the Israelites received from the Egyptians just before fleeing the country. The dyed cloth was luxurious (not for everyday clothing). The hair and the skins from the animals involved slaying these creatures. Goats and rams they had as livestock, but badgers were wild (and fierce). The wood was from a tall tree with a rounded crown that grew in the wilderness, but sparsely, not as in forests. And the precious stones were also considered luxurious.

The items YHWH wanted made from these things required a large quantity of these things, so generosity was needed to supply all that was needed, even though the Israelites left Egypt in haste and not with ALL of their household goods. They probably didn't have a lot of excess of some of these things and most likely each served a good purpose for the people in their journey. They were to give sacrificially to YHWH, likely testing many of the Israelites since replenishing these things was unlikely in

this place.

its the best bible ever

Gig Thanks for clarification when the scripture is worked too many times it's from the readers point of view and not what God mean't which is challenging given the

Languages and customs it was translated from. One of the most challenging

Fields to me is understanding the bible is an eastern book a lot written viewed from an eastern mind.

David,

Yes, that is what the Hebrew says in Exodus 3:14, I will be what I will be, but in the very same verse, God says to tell the children of Israel I AM has sent me unto you. In Exodus 3:13, Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say unto me, What is His name? What shall I say unto them?

God's response was to tell them I AM has sent you. Jesus also claimed to be the I AM of the Old Testament. I do agree with you that there are so many different interpretations of who the I AM is. I'm not sure about 100, but if ours is different than those 100 scholars, I guess we can bump that number up to 102!

Amen Gigi.

What a wonderful post that answers other questions pending on which view you take!

Like if Jesus is 100% God could he have sinned? Maybe that should be on a different thread, so I want ask that. lol.

God bless.

Chris, I am currently on vacation. I'll come back to you when i'll be back, probably on Saturday.

Hi Brother Ronald.

I love you too Brother and it is always pleasant talking with you.

I haven't read much of the replies, I've been traveling, but I will when I settle down maybe this weekend.

However I intend to sit this one out.

Adam posted a question that I never heard or seen brought forward.

What % of God is in Christ.

The other side of the coin is What % of Mary or Adam and Eve is in Christ. We know all humanity goes back to Adam and Eve.

That's where it gets interesting. Adam in us have to die and we have to be born from above "Born again " in order to get an Ernest of the spirit. Christ didn't.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

And as we have BORNE the image of the earthy, we shall also BEAR the image of the heavenly.

As you said, The glory Christ had with the Father is incomprehensible to us considering God is spirit and there is one spirit and Christ is in the bosom of that spirit.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, WHICH IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, he hath declared him.

Our relationship to our father doesn't help us relate to that!

If we go back to our father we go back to a time where we didn't exist. The Glory of Christ in the father is from everlasting to everlasting.

It's interesting The demons and Satan seems to comprehend that.

God bless.

Hello David,

I can see your point here. My point was that this sealing of the covenant is similar in pattern and shadow to the sealing of the New Covenant with the blood of Jesus. I don't believe I said that the animal blood equated to Jesus' blood. I did not mean that. I was just commenting that the blood was sprinkled on the altar unto YHWH to seal the covenant from His end and on the people for the sealing of the covenant from their end. But if you took it another way, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I know that it is only the blood of Jesus that propitiates any sins, not animal blood. It is the sacrifice of Jesus that brings forgiveness of sins, not the sacrifice of animals.

No problem S. Spencer. Thanks for this post. it made me smile!