King James Bible
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My prayers are with you, some of our paths are harder than others, but the end of the road is worth every painful step we have in this life. Our faith must be founded in our Savior Jesus who is the Son of the only true God our Father as you may say Grandfather. I support some schools in South Decota, they are Catholic, but I pray what I give God uses for the kids. You can do this, thank God for the return of your daughter, what a blessing, praise God.
Wakan Takan kici un. You are not alone.
God bless,
RLW
Romans 6:11-14: in essence here, Paul urges the believers to 'calculate' ("reckon", from reading his earlier words) that you are 'dead' (separated) from sin; if separated, to no longer yield your bodies & minds as instruments of unrighteousness but unto righteousness. To do this, we must not let sin reign (have rulership/dominion) over us, but allow Christ to have full control. But when we do sin, does this mean that we are completely given over to sin & have left Christ (just as some might misuse God Grace, finding licence to sin because of it)? Again, Paul states (v16) that we are no longer servants to sin but unto God: we live unto God, we are His 'servants'. Even if afflicted by temptation & sin, this does not make us servants to sin (that sin becomes our master). Our bodies will always find some occasion to sin, but our longing & desire is to please Him Who gave His all for us, that He will reign in our lives & we should never place our sinful compulsions on our throne.
And so we go to Romans chapter 7. After Paul writes about the Law & its exposing of sin in man, he then writes about his personal battle with this & even the present struggle he has in his war with sin rearing itself in him coming against his new nature. But does Paul surrender to "the law of sin (that is found) in his body" (v23)? Some might say that he does, when he writes, 'with my mind I serve the Law of God, but in my flesh, the law of sin'. But knowing Paul's hatred of all things sinful & his urging his readers to think likewise, Paul could never get away from the fact that sin would always rear its ugly head in one form or another. That wasn't the issue with Paul - he accepted that was his lot, as is ours also - what mattered to him was that through the power of Christ in Him, he could now live unto God, with God on the Throne & no longer the sin that had control over him - the old Law gave him no respite from sin or healing. (This paragraph continued on Page 3).
Hello Momsage. My apologies, and No, I didn't see your other three posts at the time, since they were not joined to the one I responded to (i.e. the one addressed to me). I've now collated the others together & will respond.
As I read them, in support of your belief, you've used Romans chapter 6 and I'll try to deal with a few applicable verses.
Romans 6:2: "dead to sin". Death has always denoted 'separation', never extinction. Physical death: separation of spirit from body; Spiritual death: separation of a person from God; Eternal death: eternal separation from God. So 'death to sin' is a separation from the ruling power of sin in one's life - never an extinction of sin or even the capacity to sin.
Romans 6:6,7: "crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sinFor he that is dead is freed from sin". The Greek word for 'destroyed' (in this instance) is 'katargeo', which means, 'to render inoperative/impotent or abolish'. Or, in another way, 'that the body of sin might cease/be abolished as an instrument of sin'. What we once were, caring little about our sins & its repercussions, now "in Christ" & His Spirit within us, we no longer desire for that life of careless sinful living, we no longer want to be its servants, subjugated to it, but now serving the Lord & dealing with sin as our enemy & not our desirable companion. So "he that is dead (separated, by virtue of Christ's death & our dying unto Him), is freed from sin (not by not ever committing any sin, but freed (having been abolished) from its power, its destructive forces, & its damnable end). Onto Page 2.
Pray for Tatanka Ska Winya Swift Bird safe return home back to her home out east of 193 Porcupine, SD
To work for ALO, and the OST Porcupine CAP office Director even to get hired on as an intern as I got approved for Dusty Johnson internship program
My name is Tricia Coleman from the Oglala Lakota County of Pine Ridge Indian Reservation South Dakota
It seems today more than ever there are few examples of discipling in terms of the closeness of relationships at least in this country except from some small groups I have participated in. Churches that actually have truth taught with love are rare enough; but finding ones that are small and personable enough and have a good structure of elders and other teachers that can commit to this is even more unusual. I suppose one could qualify service type work as something where we can learn by example; but again it seems most in leadership are too busy with their conferences and other church business to have much time for that.
Again not sure how things are out there but have some idea. We should be learning by using spiritual gifts and interacting with those gifted in other areas. We should be able to do charity work and other things and be assured correct doctrines are being taught; but sadly there are many organizations which once examined are spurious in that and it takes a wise and discerning church leader to pick up on it sometimes. Sadly part of the issue are those who are so immature in their faith that they don't have a clear gospel message when witnessing; not to mention many who if believers at all are either too busy or make themselves to busy to be relevant as far as participation other than showing up Sunday mornings. The other side of he coin are small groups that may indeed be committed to the cause of evengelism; prayer; etc. but which tend to be separate from churches and therefore often subject to doctrinal error or tend to be argumentative without accountability in regard to leadership; etc. I have seen this type of thing veer to full Preterism; or extreme Calvanistic persuasion at the expense of a balanced approach to scripture as a whole.
In general finding someone we wish to emulate who is also approachable is hard these days. Also finding those who see the value in discipling us; or are teachable themselves.
As far as the topics that have been discussed lately, many of the positions presented are ones I have never really heard of before and so I do want to learn more about the tenets of such positions so I can evaluate whether I can come into agreement with the poster or to voice another viewpoint. Before coming to this site, I had not known about KJV-onlyism, Sabbath keeping necessity, complete sinless perfectionism, premillennial dispensationalism, and others. So I have learned more about what people mean concerning these positions and then compare them to Scriptures, not in the way of picking out specific Scriptures in isolation as much as gaining a more comprehensive, contextual, knowledge of the teachings in Scripture. This does not mean I am in the right on all these matters, but am still learning and growing.
I have been on this site for just over two years and there used to be many more posters asking questions about specific Scriptures or Christian living or teachings they have heard. There used to be far more prayer requests. I do hope that people will feel more comfortable bringing such things forward for discussion.
You have explained this well. Sometimes English offers only a limited interpretation of a Greek or Hebrew word and so, having someone like you here or someone who has studied Greek and Hebrew can help us understand passages that, in English, seem confusing, contradicting, or even to say something that is not ours to have in this life, i.e. the full character of God. We are and will always be limited beings where He is without limits, so we can never be as perfect as His in His essence, but in heaven, we will be as perfect as a human being can be, with Christ's humanity as our example of such perfect humanity. In the life to come we will be as complete and holy as a human can ever be and it will be the end to which God created all things, which glorifies Him in our glorification.
Now, being in Christ, we have been made righteous only by Him and are determined to be sinless because of His sinlessness. But it is never a righteousness we can have from keeping the law, because even our best actions and willings are as filthy rags before the holy and pure nature of God. In this life we are to "mortify" (pt to death our sinful nature continually as we fight against its power to pull us into sin, but it is no longer our master, and we have God as our master now, so we are thus triumphant over the power of sin, but not necessarily sinless in our day-to-day life. And I think, as you have explained the
Greek understanding of Scriptures, Scriptures teaches us this is true.
About perfectness. I think the Bible uses this word with various meanings
1. Lets see as Richard says Matthew 5:48, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.". Now the verb "be" in grk (esesthai) is in the future tense and denotes an expectation. So what Jesus is actually saying here (as I understand it) is that He expects us to become perfect like God is. Well this is impossible, isn't it? So what He means is that He expects us to strive to be like God (in character). And how is that to be done? By following His commandments, which commandments reveal the character of God to us. And since one aspect (and probably the most important) of God's character is love Jesus asks us to love each other like God does. This is something gradual, isn't it? It is something that we keep aquiring through our whole life.
If we compare it with Hebrews 5:8,9, "8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Here Jesus iwas made perfect by obeying God's commandments.
So perfectness again here means a whole route/course that we follow in our lives during which, by following God's commandements/directions we keep growing spiritually and getting to be like God in character more and more.
2. But in Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified", the word perfect has a different meaning. It means the one who has no sins. So we were perfected by Jesus' Blood, that is we are righteous through His sacrifice.
3. In Hebrews 11:38-40 says, "39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
Here perfectness is something that we will aquire in Heaven when we will be dressed up with our new spiritual body, completely freed from sin, death etc
Is it more important to appease men, or more important to please God? To the church, it should be obvious what the priority is, but I think some cave to public pressure and fear they may lose funding or social status by not siding with the bullies. Some try to appease the world instead of God.
What's this bullying really about and why the huge push in recent years? They claim its their identity, they're born that way, and don't have a choice. But has anyone challenged this assumption?
What are other examples of someone born with such a high proclivity to sin that they absolutely "have no choice"? I'm not aware of any, in fact, the Bible says we always have a choice- a way out of sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV
We all have different obstacles in life; some, like Paul, had a thorn in the flesh. 2 Corinthians 12:7
I reject the assumption that some people are more "equal" than others. Equal means equal, not special protected classes and treatment. I've learned that the woke movement is now racially separating people just like they did 100 years ago, whether for hiring, or DEI classes, and who knows what else. Amazing full circle. They totally ignored everything MLK stood for.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 KJV
The culture is ignoring this verse that we're equal.
There's no evidence anyone's identity is tied to sin so much they can't help but do that. No baby desires such things. It's learned and when opportunities present themselves. Now pedos use same arguments to excuse their horrific abuse of kids. The culture will use clever words to defend it. There's no end to the evil progression. It's a choice.
The grk for "disciple" is "mathetes". It comes from the verb "mathaino" which means "to learn". So the precise meaning of the grk for disciple is "a learner, a student, pupil". In the ancient world, the followers of the greek philosophers (from the verb "philo" which means "to love" and "sophia" which means "wisdom") were also called "mathetes". So the word had a broader meaning, it was used for those who follow/spend a long time with, and learn from somebody who played the role of a teacher. Plato, Socrates, Aristotle and many others had established academies/schools and had disciples who were learning their wisdom about the world.
I will have to evaluate my own time on this site and if and when I should respond or not. It isn't just the subject matter that worries me it is a general mindset of having to debate a subject without much scripture; or things that don't really add any meaning to an argument-at least from my vantage point. Do we really want to know the Lord better when discussions like this come up in the first place? I don't sense lately much teachability; I'd like to learn some stuff too with these debates. Nothing wrong I guess with the sometimes detailed scriptural analysis; except for the fact thought patterns and the scriptures used confuse me quite often as to how exactly they corroborate any particular concept brought up. Maybe it's just me.
I'm hoping there is some use here for those who are young in the faith who want to grow; although I can't remember the last time anyone actually expressed being anew believer here. I sense that people who have had some faith for a time are more represented; and that coming with whatever baggage associated with their own viewpoints. I sense that many have been taught a certain way and haven't really taken the time quite often to search the scriptures as Bereans. Again; there usually is a certain truth in both "camps" whether predestination vs. free will; the "Trinity" or concept of one God. Properly dividing the scriptures in context and precise meanings (or at least as close as we can get to it) is also helpful.
I don't know maybe I am hypocritical; I thought I was trying to give an open minded presentation in regard to the aforementioned factors; but perhaps not. I hope to hear from you on your thoughts about emphasizing daily scripture reading and prayer as well as fulfillment of the commandment of the Great Commission as to how this site can prompt participants in that way.
I think that as long as we are prayerfully responding to what others post we can be used by God in discussions, knowing that there is a wider audience here than just those who post whom we do not know about their maturity, newness to faith, or knowledge of the subjects under discussion. So, I think it is good to offer an alternative view than the one presented for the sake of these who may be undecided, confused, or taken in by false ideas, legalism, and half-truths. We wrestle with Scriptures together, and thus the Spirit brings clarity to us who participate in discussion as well as attempting to present ones viewpoint without resorting to personal attacks, defamation, and insensitive remarks. I endeavor to converse in such a manner, but knowing that I make mistakes and fall short at times, I want to also sense the lead of the Spirit as to when to exit a conversation for the sake of all involved either posters or listeners.
Any way we look at it, we can hope that God's wonderful Spirit in us will help us be discerning, compassionate, and flexible enough to hear what another has to say with honest consideration and thoughtful acknowledgement of what aligns with Scripture properly in another's explanation of their views, and spiritual understanding of what is not properly truth.
I've even see church leaders deceive others into accepting the Lord. It seems unlikely that would ever happen, but its an incremental process. Because why would anyone need to be tricked or manipulated into doing that. But I suspect part of this pressure was on the pastor himself to meet an arbitrary quota of "conversions". For example, he might say at the end of a sermon, if you can relate to this, just "slip up your hand". "no one will be looking, that's all we ask". But then the demands continue, "If you raised your hand earlier, please stand" then "if you stood, please come forward" then they get the crowd to clap for them to walk forward- social pressure. Then "all those who came forward please pray to be converted then go to this side room, on and on... I personally don't think people need to be tricked or artificially forced into accepting the Lord, I think it's in His and the person's timing. Of course, sometimes that time is now, but why the deceptiveness?
Also visited a Vineyard church which had people "exercising" their holy spirit and gifts, from laughing on the floor, to almost barking like dogs, and jumping and running around. I saw someone try to speak jibberish assuming it was in tongues and there was peer pressure to do that. At some point I think people get caught up in man's way of doing things instead of God's way.
As most proclaiming Christ know Matthew 28:19 states:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
As to the definition of a disciple; that would be an interesting topic for those more familiar with the meaning of the original language. It certainly involves being a follower of those with true teachings; and is a group activity. Such should be the case in regard to evangelism; but from my experience it is often lacking. There is often inconsistency if group efforts to evangelize whether on the street or in a retirement community so that the routine relationships and the time spent and frequency of appearance for the recipients of the message discourages building deep and long lasting relationships. Such relationships are the basis for further instruction of doctrines from those in church leadership. It is admittedly hard when we are reaching those who are elderly or infirmed to establish a method of transportation to church; and hence it is easier when we can find those qualified to bring a service to such a location as a nursing home which I have seen with some success in the past. The same issue; of course has to be considered for those on the streets who may need special attention that may be violent or have substance abuse issues.
As believers; I have stated before that it is helpful on the streets for example to have some focusing on praying for others while others preach. We also can't undervalue prayer for the saints who are laboring as to their safety and reaching the individuals God has predetermined to meet on a particular day.
I am hopeful that funding for church missions can be more focused on activities in local communities rather than being funneled overseas in totality. If there is a disconnect between Christians fellowshipping in a building and how we to operate in evangelism going to church won't be understood properly.
Having personally lived with a brother that had such a lifestyle decades ago before coming to Christ has helped me gain further personal insight and experience on the subject. Such political incorrectness to those former associations and friendships in that community naturally denies those still in that lifestyle the benefit of hearing how God works to change the hearts ( Jeremiah 17:9) from wickedness to God's righteousness for those who have become true believers in Christ.
The church in general has had two responses to this issue; one which fits in increasingly with the gay community as well and the other which has some truth but has what seems to be a fundamental error. In terms of that second camp the preaching of homosexuality as a specific sin said to be an abomination instead is categorized as any other sin. Another problem is that of fitting in a life of celibacy as a whole with those who are "same sex attracted" and assuming that's enough rather than addressing the spiritual and other components that initiate such perverted desires in the first place. In tandem with that therefore we don't explain the alternative; which is a true Agape love among the brethren which is how we are to start to live the way we all are designed to do. Turning our affections on things above; of course is best implemented by seeing others do the same and once again those who used to live that way and are changed or detransitioned would be the best people who would be exemplary of that change and hence to follow. Therefore it involves not only redirecting our affections but allowing the Spirit to crucify the flesh which we all need to do as believers. The practical implications also need to be brought to light of those living deviant lifestyles as to the frequent rage and violence in such relationships; effects on children; etc. Suicide rates among the trans community is a prime example.
It has become evident lately that subjects have been picked apart and it seems some intransigence has set in with certain responses. I am concerned with this discussion and the one previously on the Trinity (or however we choose to define God's 3 fold attributes) that even though many truths and scriptures are utilized as a whole; many comments seem to be counterproductive. Usually when things drift in that direction there is less and less scriptural backing of statements and they go on what seems more like personal attacks than "iron sharpening iron" as it were.
I would guess you have noticed that trend lately as well. This actually seems to have started with the KJV only controversy before these other two subjects came up a few weeks back. One obvious conclusion that can be brought up is that whenever there is SOME truth on both sides certain individuals don't want to concede that in holding out their particular viewpoint. The other point is that as I have said many times some things we can't fully understand (predestination for example which I have brought to the forefront fairly often being one of them).
Honestly, it makes me sad. I have to question how much time to spend on this forum as it seems genuine responses where anything productive can continue to occur after a topic is brought up seem to happen less and less; as well as others besides yours truly seeming to respond to my postings. I know what you're thinking it isn't about me; although I would hope to be used by God to edify someone on occasion as it seems happened previous to these recent postings. I still am hoping that there is some sort of routine checkup of prayer requests here (which get mixed up at times with discussion forum site).
Hopefully there can be a desire from this site for people to start obeying the Great Commission as well as consistently reading scriptures and prayer. I appreciate your friendship.
Agape.
Though you brought up a matter of the sacrifices still to be carried out during the Millenium. There has been varied opinions about this (I don't know how that group understood it), seeing that the Lamb of God Who was sacrificed for all will be on the Throne for all to behold. I believe that those old sacrifices could never take away sin ( Hebrews 10:11,12), only God's provision of His Lamb could. Yet, what are we to make of Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 and other portions? Could it be emblematic: that which was meticulously followed in days of old could only look forward to a coming One Who would deal with the disease of sin forever? That the Christ Who will be before them on the Throne, still with the marks of His Suffering & Death, is the fulfilment of all that was performed before Him? Just as we have the bread & the wine today as a memorial looking back at the Cross, maybe these future sacrifices serve as a memorial looking forward to the Blessed One sacrificed for them, Who is now in their presence. Only a thought on my part as I too try to understand the reason for the need for such sacrifices in the coming Kingdom; I could be entirely wrong in this & always open to other thoughts.