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Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)
According as he hath chosen us
( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:
So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.
God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.
Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.
Example: Isaiah 46:10.
1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.
I hope this helps
God bless.
I realize that I've shared my own understanding of what I glean from your posts, but writing about 'baby Christs, Father, Son & Grandson, God's Name is Abraham, Isaac & Jacob', & such like, I find in contradiction to God's Word. But then you would know this from our earlier discussions. I believe you're a fine upstanding man who loves the Lord immensely, but I find you provide near to nothing as a basis for any meaningful discussion. You're interpretations & spiritualizations are far to extreme & remote for me to even understand. So, if you're prepared to answer my questions at face value & not get into obscure interpretations, we might have something to discuss. So thank you for your time & God bless.
Part 1.
I Agree with Brother Chris "God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold" and the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond!!
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.
Galatians 3:22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.
Ephesians 1:12-13. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
So let's make it clear
Romans 10:8-15 is what's relevant.
But look at verse 16. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Here's my thought on this that I'm sure can be improved on.
Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Here we have God's way that He Elected..
Next we have "WHEN" God's way was Elected.
Ephesians 1:4. According as he hath chosen us ( IN ) him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD...
You may find it easier to understand if we look at it as the church or the body of Christ instead of Individuals.
See part 2.
1 John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP ONE WITH ANOTHER , and (then) the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
GBU
Predestination in the sense that God knows who is going to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be saved and predestined them for eternal life, then yes this is right. But predestination in the sense that God planned beforehand whom He is going to save and act accordingly, then no this is wrong. If the latter was true then God wouldn't be righteous. Love, Truth and Righteousness is God's nature. God will not condemn people for what they would or wouldn't have done bur for what they do or don't. The verse you state from John means that nobody can take us from God, as long as we stay on the right path. Interpretation of verses must always be done in accordance to all other verses that are related to the same topic.
Predestination, like .secured salvation no matter what, in my opinion are wrong beliefs.
GBU
Another great example of what the original language can uncover! But even in the English text when taking the whole body of scripture you have to work extra hard and ignore a ton of scripture to deny the deity of Christ.
Thanks and God bless.
If God doesn't want us MIXING cattle with a diverse kind, or a sow a field with MIXED SEED, it seems to me he wouldn't want Jews and Gentiles mixing or people of different races mixing. (mixed-race-marriages, mixed-race-offspring)
John 10:30 (Jesus speaking) "I and my Father are one."
If God said "Thou shalt not", Jesus wouldn't contradict Him. No where did Jesus say mixed-race (fooling around) was okay.
1 Kings Chapter 11:
1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
.....and as a result, Solomon's wives brought their idols into his house.
Dear Heavenly Father, we truly believe that You are LORD of all and that you have numbered the days for each of us. We will live every one you have ordered for us. We lift up Mishael and Troy and ask that You will heal them of any cancer cells in their bones or anywhere else in their bodies. Father, bring to Troy and Mishael the best type of treatment. In faith, we come to You, knowing that You can do miracles as well as work through the medical advancements You have allowed us to develop to fight cancer.
Father, strengthen Mishael and Troy daily as they walk with You. Do lot let them be overcome with anxiety, pain, nor despair, but instead, build them up in Your Holy Word and help them to use this time for Your glory. Cover them with comfort and peace. Give them keenness of spirit and words of knowledge for themselves and others so that they will know that You are with them with faithfulness and love.
We ask these of You, Father, in the name of Your Son, Jesus, Amen.
Mishael, thank you for sharing. We care so much for you and our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Anyway; of course there will be the few that survive through the Tribulation who have kids; many of whom will live until the end of the Millennium; hence being those who ARE in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment IF they are not killed due to some sort of sin beforehand ( Isaiah 65:20). After the Millenium; it would appear that all mortals also enter immortality; once the new heaven and new earth are created.
These issues shouldn't of course be a distraction to plans now; having children and getting married. It is good; however to put our mind on things above ( Colossians 3:1-10). God can give us contentedness now; and surely we will rejoice in heaven and not miss our earthly existence. There is always a tendency to concern ourselves with all the things of this world; rather than casting our cares on Him; especially today. Of course it is always best to have a healthy church community which seems to be found more often in the Reformed churches. May He give you wisdom in these trying times.
There are things in my own life that need work; as we all do. As you stated; most people are aware of the 2 points of view. I can't see any other view than God's predetermined plan in John. Since John is the first gospel and often the main thing new believers re expected to read; I thought it was particularly relevant. Also; there is a focus on much of what Jesus Himself said; which certainly reflects later in the epistles of Paul; as well as even the book of Revelation.
The best we can do is trust God; read all things with integrity (i.e. in regard to verses mentioning the "whole world" and man's responsibility) and focus on what we do know. That requires us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
It also involves our resolution and desire to heed His voice; at least in determining our spiritual maturity; and hence REWARDS we recieve or are withheld from because of the quality of our service. A primary issue is whether God can break trough beyond what all humans can perceive; that is the invisible creation and Godhead as Romans 1 indicates. There are muddy issues involved; for instance if God hears prayers of the wicked (Job would seem to deny it but we must keep in mind not all the advice given to him was appropriate). There are other prayers of the wicked at their death calling to God which scripture indicates at some point He will ignore. ( Jeremiah 11:14 for one).
Nonetheless; IF a person genuinely asks God to show them the truth; and they are willing to find out no matter how bad; I have to believe He will reveal sin righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). God's Holiness must be revealed as beyond any so called virtue of human love to be saved as i see it.
Is Jesus Christ God?
Matthew 1:23 is the fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14 which reads, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, (God with us). How can that be if Jesus is not God? Matthew is presenting to us the fact that the birth of Christ fulfilled prophecy, which is Isaiah 7:14.
A virgin was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That's what Joseph came to understand. And when Joseph made that last final procedure of adopting Jesus by giving Him His name Jesus, Jesus Christ became the legal heir to the throne of David. That's when it became official. So it didn't come from Joseph. Even some Jews were expecting Messiah to come from a virgin. Very interesting!
Is Jesus Christ God?
In Verse 2, it says Abraham begat Isaac. The word 'begat' means to generate or to produce. Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and that's the cadence that goes through a Jewish genealogy. It's always through the man, not through the woman. So the men don't give birth to other people, they produce. Abraham produced Isaac, Isaac produced Jacob, and so on.
But down in Verse 16, it says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called the Christ." Do you see the term "of whom", and "of whom was born?" The Greek text says "Out of whom," and the word whom is feminine, not masculine. So the Jewish person is probably going to say okay, we're going Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, okay we got that, and then you see "of whom" and you would think it was Joseph right?
No, because the Messiah is not from Joseph. The Messiah is from Mary. So that opens up a question for the Jews which requires an explanation, and we have the explanation in Verses 18 through 25 which is the ancestry of the Christ explained. Notice in Verse 18 it says, now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise, or more literally "in this way," because he is explaining that little presentation in Verse 16 "from whom" or "of whom" and it is feminine.
So the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way, and by the way, the word birth in Verse 18 is the same Greek word genesis which means origin. The origin of Jesus Christ was in this way. Matthew is still not calling it a birth. He is calling it an origin.
And then we have Matthew 1:21. This is something that the Jews expected the Messiah to do. They expected Him to be the Savior-Messiah. This is the same thing they expected God to be, the Savior-Messiah. And this is who Jesus was.
Is Jesus Christ God?
After reading through a post discussing who Jesus is and seeing that some believe He is a created being by God, some believe He is God, and some just say He is God's Son so He cannot be God Himself, I would just like to share my understanding on who Jesus is. First of all, a lot of the discussion has been centered on John Chapter 1 which I agree shows not only the deity of Jesus, but also shows that He is God manifested in the flesh. But what I would like to use instead is Matthew Chapter 1.
Matthew Chapter 1 can be broken into two sections, Verses 1 through 17 prove that Jesus Christ literally and legally fulfills the Abrahamic and Davidic covenant for the Jews. And then the second section, Matthew 1:18-25 gives us the ancestry of the Christ. The entire ancestry table is found in Matthew 1:1-17. The second section gives us the ancestry of the Christ explained. In simpler terms, these two sections would be called "The birth of Christ," and "The birth of Christ explained."
Matthew 1:1 would be the caption or title. It is entitled the ancestry, not the genealogy. The word for genealogy is not used in Verse 1. And there is a reason for that. The word for genealogy in the Greek text is GENEALOGIA. But the word used in Verse 1 is GENESIS, pronounced Gen-ay-sees, with the "G" sound as in Girl. The word "generation" in Verse 1 is the Greek word GENESIS. It is not the word for birth.
Matthew is purposely avoiding the word for birth. What Matthew is saying here is that this is the scroll of the origin of the Christ. Why is this important? Well, what Matthew is presenting here fits perfectly to what John said in John 1:14 that "The word became flesh and dwelt among us." You see, Jesus was not born. He became flesh. He has always been in existence. This is why Matthew avoids using the word for birth. He is presenting to us the origin of the Christ.
.....I will know them ALL but Isaiah saw this know them all as a knowledge that is gona cover this earth as the waters cover the seas....Which is an intimacy that is gonna result in a birth of Christ in every man....Thats y Jeremiah saw everymen with his hands on his loins as woman in travail and birth pains...We are all gonna birth a Baby Christ which is the H.G....The Children of PROMISE...I will know them all from the least to the greatest thus the Children of PROMISE THE H.G....The woman with Child....
Thats y he has to know us weather we like it or not....Simply b/c our old adamic nature is in rank with satan....God cd not care less what satan likes.
Father, I long for the power of Christ to rest and remain in me and to dwell richly in me, so that like the apostle Paul I can even rejoice in my weakness, because Your power is upholding and sustaining me every step of the way.
Loving Lord, I know that I have a little strength and that in my own power I would fall apart. But I praise Your name that Your grace is sufficient for all my needs and that Your power is made perfect in my own weakness.
Father, I long for the power of Christ to rest and remain in me and to dwell richly in me, so that like the apostle Paul I can even rejoice in my weakness, because Your power is upholding and sustaining me every step of the way. Amen.
>>An explanation. I'm Mishael. I've been commenting in this website a couple of years. Everybody in the comment rooms and the prayer rooms are not running this website. All those who comment replies are just people who love Jesus and truly try to help or fellowship with those writing in. I'm 71 and retired with a bossy cat and a loudmouth cockatiel. I care very much about those suffering or in need of a friend.
We need you to come into the Questions room or the Discussion Room and just hang out. You sound like you care. Not everyone likes to Pray online. I'm an ex Streetpreacher with sore feet; and in 35 years I prayed LOTS. I like doing what others don't, so much. I hope I'm not shocking you? I just want you to know this is all volunteers and some spectators (until they see it can be fun and rewarding). Come in whenever you have some spare time. Hope to see you soon.
I think you must join a decent christian congregation. To get to meet and have companion with other christians than can help you, that can provide you with support, can give you encouragement. Christians should not be on their own, that's why God established the church. We can not live with worldly people, neither we can live on TV teachings. Get yourself in a church and talk about your problems with the pastor. Pastors are very experienced usually since they come to meet with this sort of difficult situations a lot in their lives, so they can help you. You need guidance and consulting to find your way. Don't stay alone and may God help you out.
I come to You today because my health has been deteriorating with an evil report of bone cancer. I oppose the spirit of wasting, in Jesus Name. I am not sure what to do, but I know that You understand everything about me. I believe that You know exactly what I need to bring me back to full health and strength and I am trusting You in this time of illness in my life.
Lord, I ask for Your healing touch on my life, and pray that You would bring to my attention the treatment that is best suited for my condition. Please direct me in the way that I should go at this difficult time in my life. Thank You, Father, in Jesus' name I pray,
"Heal me, Lord, and I will be healed; save me, and I will be saved, for You are my praise." ( Jeremiah 17:14)
Precious Jesus I ask you to undertake this disease and rebuke the devourer. I ask you to restore the years the cankerworm and locust has robbed this believer of your blessings. I pray you would restore and give him the joy of Your Salvation.
I pray you would stir the waters of Bethesda and you will help him into the waters of healing. So be it done according to Your Great Love. Amen, Mishael
However, if you read the KJV you can maybe interpret this differently. "My Father, which gave THEM ME, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."