Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 152

Dear Jordyn.

Thank you for replying to me. I disagree with you in what you've posted in response to me. We are beings with free agency. We do not lose this when we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But our will is sanctified by Him. Beyond this statement, I do not wish to go further with you as we are not in harmony on this and on other matters you've written about.

Have a good day. We are God's children and we are growing up into Christ more and more in the time we are given in this life. He does not need to refine Himself in us. He does not change, but we do, thus giving evidence that we are not just a pot, but a being made to become compatible with God through Christ.

I have no problem being subject to my husband or the male elders in my congregation for Christ's sake . For any man to think that a women is inferior to a man just because she is a woman , is very offensive to most women . I choose to be subject to my husband and male elders because it is what Christ requests me to do , not because I am , of feel , inferior to , any man . What do you think about a husband ( a Christian ) who does something very wrong and demands that his wife (also a Christian ) keep silence about it for his sake ? As we are all responsible for our sins and will each of us , man or woman , have to give account of ourselves to Christ , and bear our individual punishments , that wife will be punished for obeying her husband . If the husband is the head of the wife and the husband commits a grievous sin , does his sin rest on her also ? Should she not , go over his head and answer first and foremost to her saviour rather than her husband ? Many years ago in my congregation , a married sister would come to our services , with her husband , and very often a black eye or bruise on her face . None of the brethren ever spoke to her or her husband about this . The husband never allowed her to be alone with anyone that she might talk to about this . This miserable situatuation continued for years . It distressed every sister in the congregation and made them , us , think so much less of our elders who permitted this without ever trying to sort it out . Men are imperfect . Christ is not . I will have to give Christ ( not a man ) an account of myself . He , Christ will judge me , not a man . If it comes to a choice between either obeying Christ , or any man , I know what I will do .

Ze.14

The battle

When Jesus advised his disciples on the night he was taken, "and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."( Luke 22:36). The sword was a badge of office for soldiers of Christ. Instead the apostate church has activism and on earth they are to strengthen the hand of the beast.. There shall be a battle as there was a battle against the Amalekites in the days of Moses,(Ex.17:11-12). There shall be a final battle (Re.20:8-9). And these battles have their order as there are waves of resurrection.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

In the case of the war with the Amalekites Moses stood on top of the hill with the rod of God, which is clue to the intent of the Spirit. The rod in the hand of Moses was for his glory and with which God brought plagues upon the land of Egypt. Moses was in place of the Lord directing the war."To morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand."

We have been warned of his coming. "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you."(Matt.24:4).

Ze.14:18-21 (3 of 3)

"Worship the Lord"

/And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it."(Re.21:23-26).

God gave freely indwelling Spirit so we are in high places already when we revere 'Christ in us' by faith. What prevents a Christian from worshipping him in Spirit and truth? It is a kind of Alzheimer's disease, spiritually affecting him trapping in the unrealistic world-view so glory of wealth, praise of men pomp and circumstance seem as true. The ungodly leaders of man are affected as Christians whose reasonable faculties do play hopscotch with reality. Those patriots who cry 'Remember 1776' do not remember all those social injustices brought forward with impunity since then, have dug trenches so nothing short of total overhaul is going to remedy the situation. The plague mentioned in the v.12 is a nuclear holocaust before we shall have a government of Righteousness.

18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith theLordwill smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles./This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Significance of the third of the great annual festivals of the Jews is to usher in the Day of Regeneration after the harvest of souls. At this point let us keep the passage quoted from the Parable of the Tares in mind. "But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them./Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn".(Matt.13:29-30). Nothing that offends shall be allowed in.

Harvest signals the ingathering of saints redeemed from the earth, which as we have said earlier, has its own order.

Sister GiGi:

You said we ARE working with the Holy Spirit:

We ARE NOT working WITH the Holy Spirit.

We are a POT, a pot does nothing, it's made to HOLD something, we; a pot, hold the SPIRIT, the SPIRIT gives the POT LIFE, the Spirit does ALL THE WORK, the pot only does what the SPIRIT CAUSES it to DO. YOU DIED on the cross: a NEW CREATION arose, the BODY of CHRIST.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my Spirit IN YOU, and CAUSE YOU to WALK in my statutes and to KEEP my judgements and DO THEM.

Psalms 145:10 ALL THY WORKS shall praise thee ......

Psalms 139:14 ..... I am fearfully and wonderfully made (a NEW CREATION): marvellous are THY WORKS .....

Psalms 104:30 ....the SENDEST FORTH thy SPIRIT, they are CREATED (anew), thou renewest the face of the earth.

The gospel of the RESURRECTION has been lost to the traditions of man.

And God shined light in to DARKNESS (the pots of the earth) and they COMPREHENDED it not.

God Bless YOU!

Ze.14 (2 of 3)

vv.18-21

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, theLordof hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles./17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, theLordof hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

We have these verses from the Book of Isaiah what it is to worship the Lord God in Spirit and in truth. "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of theLord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it./And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of theLord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of theLordfrom Jerusalem."(Is.2:2-3)

All nations shall flow into it. Not song of the degrees but leaping with hind's feet and hearts burning with zeal for the beauty of holiness. "The LORD Godismy strength, and he will make my feet like hinds'feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places."(Hab.3:19); Ps.18:13.

Often we miss the fact we are in our spiritual bodies so the spiritual space about our hearts is next door to the House of Prayer for all nations. "I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness." it is the joyful expectation of any saint. (Ps.84:10)

"But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."(v.11). We read the glory of the city has a source, "For the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof./And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it"

Ze.14:8 (1 of 3)

"In Summer and Winter"

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.(v.8)

'In summer and in winter shall it be.' Three months mark the period between summer and winter. Living waters dividing from each other are not one single event. Five months which must be fair estimation for which we have the authority of the Book of the Revelation. Ch.9

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit./And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."(Re.9:1-2). It releases hurtful things that cannot kill but prolong agony. "And their power was to hurt men five months./And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon." Their power lasts five months, which ties up with the expression, 'in summer and in winter shall it be'. Inclusive of the setting of summer and ending of winter it shall be five months.

The living waters refer to those elect who shall see the Son of man coming in his glory, which has a concrete imagery. Jesus alluded to the sign of summer in this passage, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet teder, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"(Matt.24:29-32) The remnant shall be left in charge of Abaddon for five months.

vv.6-7

Compare the above with the passage, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"(Matt.24:29)

Ze.14:10-11 (2 of 2)

"New Jerusalem"

The Book of Zechariah begins with an angel taking measure of the city of Jerusalem, (Ch.2). He explains what he was at, "To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof."(2:2). This was stated earlier,"Therefore thus saith theLord; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith theLordof hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem./Cry yet, saying, Thus saith theLordof hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and theLordshall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem." (1:16-17)

The Book of Zechariah is all about the building program of God where this book marks the beginning of the end. "And a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem" so what we have in the Book of the Revelation we find the same angel explaining, "And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof./And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal./And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."(Re.21:11-17)

Only difference is that it is not Zechariah but Apostle John. In the lexicon of the Spirit the vision is the thing, and names of prophets and apostles are interchangeable, man chosen by God.

Ze.14:10-11 (1 of 2)

"New Jerusalem"

"Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses./And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

God himself serves as a wall of fire so the city has no need for the sun.

Prophet Isaiah also refers to it with specific qualities that the city in former times could never attain. God steps in and His mercy surrounds it. "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith theLordof hosts." He removes the odium it carried in the former times. "And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day./In that day, saith theLordof hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree."(2:9-10).

The Book of Zechariah begins with the promise of God. (1:5-11) For he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye." Now Isaiah throws light on the change of attitude because the holy city of God shall know what keeps them safe. "Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise."(Is.60:18)

North as a direction often associated with judgment. "Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land."(Je.1:14)

Prophet Jeremiah also spoke of rebuilding this wall on the north side. ""The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate." (Je.31:38-NIV) Prophet Zechariah refers in the key verse,"And from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses" the distance of which " describes the greatest length of the city from North to South.

Hi GiGi,

Thanks for your response regarding our struggle with sin. You asked the following: Are you intimating that only those who are living in a continuously sinless life are living godly lives? I will answer by stating: Here is scripture intimating that only those who are living sinless lives are living Godly lives.

1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

How do you reconcile the above scripture?

You asked where I'm at in my current walk with the Lord. I'm struggling as you, and apostle Paul, but I finally feel that now I am making progress toward my goal of being sanctified and sin free in this life. The Spirit has convicted me that I should stop using that old worn out excuse that "we can't stop sinning" as being acceptable anymore. I have no choice now but to accept this, and pick up my cross, and reject this world and the lust filled things of this world. I'm praying a lot more, (If we are praying we can't be sinning) focusing on God's/Jesus words throughout my day, and the Spirit is filling me with positive thoughts and healing my mind and body. I'm so blessed Gigi, I really want to help others make progress in achieving the love/sanctification in this life that Christ promises to us if we have Faith as big as a mustard seed!

GBU

Here you can see how things are amiss within Christendom.. Obvious truths are ignored.

Link

"Rainwalker" and Giannis

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

About difference between soul and spirit, I also would like to highlight or point out the difference between HUMAN creation and other kind of animals. Genesis 1:24&26:

24 GOD said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind(may the Earth produce, or produce the Earth), cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. But about man,(v.26) GOD said, Let us MAKE MAN in our image, after our likeness: ...

If GOD had not breathed on man, this would be an animal like other animals in which GOD did not breathe the breath of life, in fact, that is why they do not speak a single word, even a letter, by nature.

I am a fruit of the multiplication that GOD ordered around 6000 years ago. I was born in the last century, but the order of my birth was given by my GOD millennia ago. I was born under His everlating Word of course. Job 33:4 -The Spirit of GOD hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Having said that, I would like to highlight and emphasize that when GOD breathed the breath of life into man, He actually gave man the ability to speak with his mouth, and thus dominate the earthly environment. John 3:31-He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth. So, he that is of above is above all.

John 20:22 - when JESUS had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Isaiah 2:22 - Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Psalm 19:14 - Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

Amen

well yeah, the Hebrew is ruach.. i believe, meant wind, breath.

Hi Adam,

Always nice to hear from you, and thanks for your input regarding sin.

For some time now on this forum I have been questioning sin and the current Christian attitude toward sin. In particular the acceptance that each of us will always be sinners during our lives and never receiving the sanctification promised. I truly believe that acceptance of this "can't ever stop sinning mindset" doesn't help us to grow closer to God. I believe saying we can't stop sinning is just putting a mental stumbling block before ourselves and others. If we use the word CAN'T in any other challenge that we might want to accomplish in life, this will assure us that we wont succeed, so why should we be saying CAN'T when it comes to sin, which is the most important challenge/endeavour for any Christian!

As a Christian living in sin and stating that we cant stop sinning how do we reconcile many bible verses including some of these.

1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:24, Romans 6:6

I understand that Paul and the other apostles struggled with sin, but we really don't know if they eventually became sin free. They may have, and I tend to believe that they all did, and we know they gave up everything for Christ including their lives. My point is, and you may or may not agree, I believe we don't help ourselves or others by continually saying we Can't overcome sin. This is a defeatist mindset, and lulls us into a conscience acceptance of a certain level of sin in our lives.

My goal in life is to work toward being sin free. In conjunction with the Holy Spirit I have made progress toward this goal. I have finally learned to really fear God, and listen to Him, and Christ. I also used to believe in my heart that as a human I would always be a sinner, I don't believe that anymore, thanks to the hard lessons and conviction by the Holy Spirit.

GBU

Ze.14:8 (2 of 2)

"The Living Waters"

The Spirit invests significance in the four cardinal directions, North, South East West which is not merely across but also up and down. Across gives us the outreach of the everlasting gospel but up and down also reveal where the living water shall go up or down. We have the four river heads in the context of the Garden of Eden. "And the fourth river is Euphrates."(Ge.2:14)

In the Book of the Revelation when the sixth angel sounds the trumpet we have this command,"Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men." (Re.9:14-15). They have been prepared for a specific purpose. It is hour of judgment. For this reason we have this expression 'Foundations' which are invisible to which Hannah alludes in her song of praise. "For the pillars of the earth are theLord's, and he hath set the world upon them." (1 Sa.2:8)

God demands answer from Job, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding./Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?/Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;" ( Job 38:4-6)

Because of this when the red dragon would hurt the left behind church God had prepared already a remedy. "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood./And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."(Re.12:15-16)

The living water carry the redeemed to the throne of God while the second group is sent to the hinter sea which is Abaddon."nd they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, -Apollyon (Re.9:11)

Ze.14:8 (1 of 2)

"The Living Waters"

"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

We came across the living waters in the vision of Ezekiel, "but now it was a riverthat I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in-a river that no one could cross.6He asked me, "Son of man, do you see this?"(Ez.47:5)

This is a vision and it figures in yet in the vision of another far removed in time. We shall compare Ezekiel with John who sees the holy city of God. "Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river.Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruitfail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuaryflows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing."(47:12)

"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb./In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."(Re.22:1-2). We see trees of righteousness in both cases and these are for the healing of the nations. These visions are connected by the river of time and it began its journey from the storehouse of God, where the waters above the firmament signifies the mercies of God.

Greetings Sister Jema,

First I will try to respond in love and try to hear what I am trying to share with you. We live in a post-feminist society which has a very great influence upon Christian women AND MEN no matter how spiritual they may be. It is difficult for MEN and WOMEN not to be influenced by it since they are surrounded by it 365 days and year. Feminist ideology is taught in schools...a man taking the lead in the house is seen as wrong and sexist.

>In my congregation, all ladies cover their heads during congregational services, including our weekly Bible class, during which >women are not permitted to speak.

First, you are very fortunate to be in such a church as it is in the [extreme] to the uttermost minority!

1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV) 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

>We cannot ignore the fact that many women know much more about the Bible than some men

Yet, God is all-knowing foresaw all this but still his divine order for men and women remains?

>Personally , I'm very glad that I am not able to speak during congregational meetings. So many times I have heard a brother >say erroneous things, if I had been able to correct him publicly...

Yes, but it isn't your place to do so, especially in the house of God. Other men who do know will correct him.

>I can always have a quiet, respectful word with him later in private or better still, speak to an understanding brother...

A much better way to go about it!

You are VERY fortunate to be in such a church.

1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Judgement starts in the house of God and so many of our churches are out of order that it is no wonder why!

Ze.14 (3 of 3)

At the end of creation the Spirit was particular to sum up the account thus:"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that theLordGod made the earth and the heavens," (Ge.2:4) Day of creation shall cover a period of time as the Day of regeneration, in which the Millennial reign shall have its own context and hold relationship with what goes on in new heaven and new earth. The key is in the Son who is Alpha Omega, the beginning and the ending. As faithful witness the Son has a relationship which is testified by the everlasting covenant. So everlasting gospel on the earth and in heaven pertains to him.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Prophecy of Zechariah specifically refers to the destruction of the city of Jerusalem in AD70 and' the residue shall not be cut off from the city" refers to the end times, when a remnant shall be added to the body of Christ.

3Then shall theLordgo forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

As with the note v.2 the Lord shall fight with the beast and the false prophet representing the apostate church of which we read in this passage, he has had already an army reserve in heaven. Re.19:11-15. These saints have their battle dress. "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." (Re.19:8)

Ze.14 (2 of 3)

We shall refer verses where up or down west or east have their own significance. God divided the waters,"and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." (Ex.14:22)

Similarly before crossing the Jordan, "That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.:( Joshua 3:16). In this book we have this verse:

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."(v.4)

The visions of Zechariah refer to deep valley and mountains of brass on either side,"behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass."(Ze.6:1) and in the first vision,"We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest." The river of time connects waters above the firmament to the last chapter where the pure water of life flows through from middle of the throne of of the Lamb and of God,- various visions are thus strung up on the continuous thread highlighting the mercy of God.

vv.1-4

"Behold, the day of theLordcometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."

When the Spirit introduced the Lord God as Ancient of Days it was intended to place emphasis on days which are appointed according to the pleasure of his Will. "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness bythatman whom he hath ordained;whereofhe hath given assurance unto allmen, in that he hath raised him from the dead.."(Ac.17:31).

Ze.14 (1 of 3)

overview:

"Behold, the day of theLordcometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."(v.1) But this division is caused by a cataclysmic upheaval so "but Jerusalem will be on an elevated site," (v.10-TLB).

In order to understand this earthquake the Spirit sets an earlier earthquake as a precedent."yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah." But here the Spirit is referring to the shaking the heaven and the earth once more. "Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land."( Haggai 2:6). This is to elevate the city of Jerusalem on an elevated site, which is in the mid-air.

We have yet another clue as to the timing of the earthquake. Resurrection of the two witnesses. (Re.11) "And the same hour was there a great earthquake. And in v.14 we have this announcement from heaven: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.". It is clear that the site of Jerusalem has shifted. For this reason we read that the vision of St John gives it in mid-air. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(Re.21:2)

The Spirit has been preparing us from the parting of the red sea how irrational it was to put your trust in your eyes. "This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD."(Je.17:5-NIV) St Paul speaks "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.:(2 Co.4:18)

Ze.13:7-9 (2 of 2)

"The Refiner"

The Spirit has been creating a sub-text,- a parallel account of the righteous nation right from the creation of Eve, while historically Israel went whoring after strange Gods in the time of kings and prophets. Significant is the v.5 in the same Malachi chapter. "And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers,". Thus when he sits as a refiner it simply means that his work with Israel is not quite done with. (4:17.)

Let us refer the Book of the Revelation: Now offering of Jerusalem is considered as in the days of old for the group we find in this passage:

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb./Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."(Re.7:14-17). Before this in vv.6-8 we have the left out church redeeming the lapses in the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem.

High Priest Joshua in Ze.3:2-3 "is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?/Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel." The 144,000 represents the sons of Levi.' (In the vision of the Woman Clothed with the sun (Re.12) she was given two wings of an eagle, Prayer and Praise and these preserve through the period of tribulation.) The great tribulation is not one single event but as with the Salvation Plan in the will the Spirit has been creating a parallel narrative, which is from the standpoint of the Son. This remnant of Israel is quite distinct from the 144,000 mentioned above.

Ze.13:7-9 (1 of 2)

"The Refiner"

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith theLord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, TheLordis my God.

Three is a command number for the Son. Here Prophet Zechariah is referring to Jesus Christ as the refiner bringing a remnant of the nation of Israel into the body of Christ. One third refers to this aspect of Gospel- outreach which redeems Israel for everlasting salvation. "they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, TheLordis my God."

We see Jesus Christ as the Refiner first mentioned in the Book of Malachi and it is the Day of His coming. He is like a refiner's fire. (Mal.3:2). In the verse preceding we have the Spirit telescoping the role of John the Baptist and into the Son who is now whom all seek. His first advent as the Servant-King is elided over. In its place the Messiah is whom they delight in'. "And theLord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith theLordof hosts." (3:1)

Jesus Christ having conquered death is now 'suddenly come in the temple' as a refiner and purifier of silver.'This temple is in heaven.

In Re.7 we have the kern of the baptism for the dead reintroduced. The intercessory role of Seth (Ge.4:25) comes a full circle with the sealing of the 144,000 in place of 'the sons of Levi'. The reason is given in the next verse,- so that the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord 'as in the days of old, and as in former years.' (Mal.3:4)

Ze.13:2-6

"Against the Man"

Jesus was well aware of the prophecy of Zechariah who gave utterance to what the Spirit had put in his mouth, "And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered." (Mark.14:27). Thus it is from one prophet to another so the expression is apt here, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," Zechariah acknowledges the Son of man as his Shepherd, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, to day and forever."(He.13:8)

vv.2-4 refers to the false prophets of Israel.

V.6 is a direct reference to 'the man that is my fellow' which stands apart from the rest. Jesus came into his own but his own received him not. The wounds are from nails that pierced the hands of Jesus Christ. Zechariah predicts the kind of death that faced him.

Ze.13:2-7

"Against My Shepherd"

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of theLord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:"(vv.2-4)

Jesus was clear that age of prophecy had ended with John."F"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." (Matt.11:13). And he came to fulfill the Law (Matt.5:17)

Here we have the proof of violence to which Jesus alluded in the above mentioned quote. (Matt.11:13) "From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subject to violence, and the violent lay claim to it. Prophet Isaiah had predicted that the chastisement was from God,"And theLordhath laid on him the iniquity of us all."(Is.53:6).

Jesus was well aware of the prophecy of Zechariah who gave utterance to what the Spirit had put in his mouth, "And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered." (Mark.14:27). Thus it is from one prophet to another so the expression is apt here, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," Zechariah acknowledges the Son of man as his Shepherd, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, to day and forever."(He.13:8)

vv.2-4 refers to the false prophets of Israel.

V.6 is a direct reference to 'the man that is my fellow' which stands apart from the rest. Jesus came into his own but his own received him not. The wounds are from nails that pierced the hands of Jesus Christ. Zechariah predicts the kind of death that faced him.

Ze.13:1

"A Fountain for Sin"

"In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness."

This fountain is opened from heaven and it is also specific to Israel. We shall find out why it must be so. There is only one measure in heaven and earth which is that of Jesus Christ. He is the Mediator whose ministry of Reconciliation set up the House for Prayer for all nations, "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."(Re.21:17). He is the Man component in the Fellowship of God with Man. Whoever is redeemed from the earth has this certainty.(2 Co.5:1-2) It is 'groaning' and not grabbing prosperity and praise of men. 'I in Jesus' so when we speak it is the same spirit of reconciliation that is expressed.(2 Co.5:20). Israel has to be reconciled because of the everlasting gospel is established along with everlasting covenant. So the ministry of Jesus from the earth is finished. He has his ministry from heaven which evidently included the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The Church age began from that point.

Towards the end of the earthly ministry Jesus explained to his disciples one reason of his returning to his Father."The Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:/And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:/Of sin, because they believe not on me;"( John 16:7-9)

Ze.12:6-9

"Day of Regeneration"

"In that day" is used by the Spirit like the song of degrees we have in the Book of Psalms. The Hebrew termma aloth(goings up) is a reference to pilgrims' going up to Jerusalem for the 3 required festivals. The command number 3 is with direct reference to the Son. Needless to say we are here referring to the heavenly Jerusalem,

"Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem./Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:"(Ps.122:2-3)

Inhabitants of Jerusalem make up the body of Christ so all distinctions which we found on the earth the Jew, the Gentile Greek or Barbarian are meaningless. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."(Gal.3:28).

In the vision of the solid golden candlestick each believer in Christ was fed from God a Spirit. "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith theLordof hosts." (4:6). In the day of Regeneration 'he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David.' The reason is simple: he that sanctified him is same as the sanctified. "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctifiedareall of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," (He.2:11) In that day Zion serves as the head or soul of every member.

"In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.".

I am amazed how often Gal 28 is taken out of context to defend the position that wives' are not required to submit to their husbands even in the face of overwhelming clear scripture to the contrary. Let's just ignore 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Eph 5:22-24.

Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The law made distinctions between these classes. For instance, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is insisted on in Dt 7:6; Dt 14:1, 2. In his morning prayer, a Jewish man thanked God that He had not made him a Gentile, a slave, or a woman. In Christ Jesus these differences disappear, that is, as far as acceptance with God is concerned. A Jew is not preferred over a Gentile, a free man is not more favored than a slave, nor is a man more privileged than a woman. All are on the same level because they are in Christ Jesus.

GALATIONS 28 MUST NOT be pressed into meaning something it does not say. As far as everyday life is concerned (not to mention public ministry in the church), God does recognize the distinction between male and female. The NT contains instructions addressed to each; it also speaks separately to slaves and masters. But in obtaining blessing from God, these things do not matter. The great thing is to be in Christ Jesus. (This refers to our heavenly position, not to our earthly condition.) Before God the believing Jew is not a bit superior to the converted pagan! Govett says: "All the distinctions which the law made are swallowed up in the common grave which God has provided." Therefore, how foolish it is for Christians to seek further holiness by setting up differences which Christ has abolished.

God loves men and women equally he just has different roles for them. 1 Corinthians 11:7 (KJV) 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

God has his divine order of things... God > man > woman...

>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.

While it's true that the ideal of a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the Church is a high standard, it's essential to remember that the Bible sets this as an aspirational goal. In Ephesians, the passage emphasizes the sacrificial love of Christ for the Church as a model for husbands to follow. While it may be challenging for any human to love perfectly, this teaching serves as a reminder of the selfless and sacrificial nature of love within a Christian marriage.

Many husbands strive to embody these qualities, even though they may fall short at times. It's important to recognize that love in a marriage is a lifelong journey of growth and learning. While none of us can love as perfectly as Christ, the goal is to continually work towards deepening our love and commitment to our spouses, inspired by the example set by Christ's love for the Church.

I want to respond in extreme love. First and foremost please try to understand that Christian men and women have been influenced by our POST FEMINIST society more than they might even realize. Many men now have female supervisors at work so it is hard for them to grapple with the wife being commanded to submit to her husband.

> Ephesians 5:25 The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.

You're mishandling scripture here. God would never oppose or contradict himself a house divided could not stand.

>Those of us who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.

No one is casting stones here.

>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to >any earthly wife.

You are mishandling scripture, here again, see my below response.

Ephesians 5:22-24:

The passage goes on to discuss the husband's role in the marriage relationship, emphasizing love, sacrifice, and mutual respect. It's often interpreted as a call for wives to submit to their husbands, but it's crucial to recognize that the emphasis is on mutual respect and sacrificial love within the context of a Christian marriage.

While some Christians may use this passage to draw parallels between the relationship of Christ and the Church and the relationship between a husband and wife, it's important to remember that these passages primarily address the roles and responsibilities within a Christian marriage. They are NOT explicitly stating that an individual is the "wife of Christ" in the same sense as a human marriage.