Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 172

Chris thank you for your reply.

You said "I see the OT as prophecy given, and the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be".

( 2 Pet 1:19-21) was written to be prophecy for us today. ( 2 Pet 1:19) starts out saying "WE have also a more sure word of prophecy". ((WE HAVE)) Every Word of God is pure, so WE HAVE a more sure word of prophecy today.

( 2 Pet 1:20) Is Peter saying here "that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" only to the people alive at the time he was writing those words? How many (at that time) could have possibly read those words compared to those words being read today in the KJB? IT IS PROPHECY FOR TODAY!

You and many others give the power of the translation of the KJB to the men who did the translation.

This is a major error Chris, God was in complete control of His Word being preserved for ever.

If we believe the Word of God is the Truth , then how can we say God didn't preserve His Word as He promised us in ( Ps 12:6-7)

( Ps 12:6) even tells us the pure words of the LORD are purified (seven times) A time is 1 year, so seven times would = 7 years, the time it took to finish the translation of the KJB.

These verses in 2 Peter are showing us a fulfillment of prophecy from the Old Testament.

( 2 Pet 1:19-21) Is confirmation of that promise being fulfilled and how God used holy men to preserve His Words for ever.

If the Word of God is Truth, (and it is) then you are misinterpreting those verses Chris.

(Truth is Christ) will help you see this Truth if you seek it.

Here's a few verses about prophecy in ( Rev 1:3) ( Rev 22:7) ( Rev 22:18-19)

Blessings to you.

Ez.1 Conclusion (4of 4)

The everlasting covenant between God and Man had given the prophet a solemn charge "And whether they hear or refuse to hear (for they are a rebellious house) they will know that a prophet has been among them."(Ez.3:5) It explains the role of his inward parts where truth is written. "Behold I stand at the door and knock."(Re.3:20) This door corresponds to the quote that was given in the beginning. The heart is a spiritual space so you see with your inner eye which is the eye of faith. As with Ezekiel so was with John. "After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven!"(Re.4:1-2). We carry two worlds,-the world of the flesh and of the Spirit. We read the effect of the open door. "At once I was in the Spirit, and behold,a throne stood in heaven."

There is nothing that we have brought into the world and this nakedness is what our world of life in the flesh signifies; The world of the Spirit for a child of God, righteousness of God is his covering. (2 Co.5:1-3).

In choosing Ezekiel as a witness God wanted a true and faithful witness so he served as a double for his Son. The Son was 'his only begotten Son', which refers to the logos principle. Of 'the Word become flesh' there is none other: Jesus Christ the same yesterday today, and forever. The great cloud in the inaugural vision represented the witnesses,-past, present and future. Cain the wicked one asked, "Am I my brother's keeper? There is no escaping,- and one may with carnal wisdom speak of individual liberty and of freedom of expression. We have seen it all. Before appointing Ezekiel as his watchman God commanded,"Son of man, all my words that I shall speak to you receive in your heart, and hear with your ears."(Ez.3:10 First principle for a faithful witness is that he hears the word with his ear of faith and as Ezekiel did, eat the entire roll given to him. Whole or nothing and there is nothing between.

Ez.1 (3 of 4)

" A great cloud, with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were gleaming metal." We saw this cloud of witnesses in Dan.7:13 in the divine will every child of God called has a part. Making our calling and election sure is our responsibility. For this reason God warns Ezekiel before giving him the roll to eat. This great army of saints redeemed from the earth we shall see in the Book of the Revelation ch.19. They are also moving in step with the living creatures "And when they went, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of many waters (1:24) signifies saints are from the whole earth. Salvator Mundi. The fiery wheels of throne of the Ancient of days signal that Judgment was set and beyond recall. God knows who are his so Ezekiel was required to speak as commanded,- whether they refused or received his message was not his concern. Heresies that are spewed from the seat of Satan cause confusion and also are contentious. What concord has Christ with Belial? Culture wars did not arise from the midst of the fire 'as it were a gleaming metal but from the miry clay.(Dan.2)

Conclusion

The heavens opened and "I saw visions of God." God made Ezekiel responsible for the entire nation so holding back or sugarcoating the word of God would have meant he sat in judgment, -it was blasphemy; or selling his own personal message instead was tantamount to make God a liar. "And go to the exiles, to your people,and speak to them, 'Thus says the LORD GOD,' whether they hear or refuse to hear."(Ez.3:11) "Thus says the Lord" placed him as the double for the Son". In making the word even though a pious humbug to make them listen was a lie. Who is the father of lies but Satan? On Ezekiel's part his faithfulness was of utmost importance.

Ezekiel 1. (2of 4)

Th Spirit repeats twice the line, "wherever the spirit would go, they went, without turning as they went. Jesus similarly sent his disciples to do their ministries. The four living creatures darted to and fro like the appearance of a flash of lightening..

The wheels primarily refer to the throne of God in Dan.7:9 I t is judgement time and of angelic revolt is not relevant for the present but what the Spirit wants us to understand is that Judgment is set and the books were opened. We are looking forward where all judgements is entrusted with the Son who is represented in the four faces.

The wheel within a wheel (1:16) symbolizes the Father Son relationship. In visual terms Re.ch.1 the greater light and the the lesser light within,,-"I and my Father are one." In the context of the living creatures it is to e be understand that they were reined in by them. Accordingly the wheels represented the soul-spirit relationship. "For the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels."(vv.20-21) The Spirit clues us in by repetition.

Let us consider the aural aspect of the vision. The effect is given in the verse," The Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in bitterness in the heat of my spirit". Isaiah cried, "Woe is me" and the majesty of Lord was a vision but it threw him as insignificant ;somewhat similar effect we have here, "and the hand of the Lord being strong upon me."(3:14)

St John refers to throne of God in terms of lighting and thunderings. The Spirit describes the effect of the living creatures, "And I heard behind me the voice of a great earthquake, "Blessed be the glory of the Lord from its place." The Spirit translates their wings touching each other in human speech.(3:12-13) This helps us understand what St Paul writes about the Spirit helping us in our infirmities (Ro.8:26-27). The sound of the wheels and the wings have their own coloring and meaning. In this context what shall we make of the cloud mentioned in Ch.1:4?

Ezekiel first three chapters (1 of 4)

Ez.1:1 "the heavens were opened" cause and it's effect was,"and I saw visions of God."Ez.1:3 "And the hand of the Lord was upon him there." Here we have Ezekiel narrating his experience and the Spirit explaining to us its significance. V.3 indicates the same meaning as the phrase 'under the shadow of his wlngs' and God was present there. In order to round it off we need the sound of voice of the Lord."And I heard the voice of one speaking."(v.28)

'The Spirit entered into me' (2:2) God's will is internalized so the first warning is to the prophet,- and God is concerned for his own well-being. "Be not rebellious like the rebellious house; open your mouth and eat." The prophet is to make himself as nothing. Faithfulness of God and of man as one must control the situation so whether Israel followed it or not is not his concern. Instead we have celebrity preachers and the manner they cut and paste the word of God is an indication that they are well settled on the seat of Satan and it is their will-worship.

The Living Creatures

Ez.1:4 The whirlwind comes from the north which is intended as the throne of God. I n the Book of Isaiah we have a verse to help us. "You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven/I will sit on the mount of Assembly in the far reaches of the north."(Is 14:13; Job 2:1) The glory of the Lord at first is visual, a great cloud with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire. It reminds of the night vision from the Book of Daniel the throne on which the Ancient of days did sit; in v.5 the living creatures appear from its midst.

These creatures are not identical to the four beasts in Re. ch. 4 but they are represented just the same. Instead of six wings they have four wings two of which are up and touching one another'while two covered their bodies.(1:11-12) Their bodies didn't count as they were on errand.

Study of Ezekiel (2 of 2)

The third layer is its fulfilment, which is also is matter determined by God. For this reason the Spirit begins the book, "In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month&" The number 30(3x10) makes Ezekiel as the message serve as a double for the Son; The Spirit also adds this identical number,-"on the fifth day of the month, (the fifth year of the exile) is to indicate the message carried specific regarding Israel,-"words of lamentation and mourning and woe."(Ez.2:10)

The Spirit gives us a few other instances where the man is to eat, in the vision of St John it was a little book (Re.10) and when the Lamb receives the book with seven seals it established the precedent that the messages may be for a specific and immediate purpose but it without exception led to the Son, Thus God promises King Solomon that his eyes shall be on the House he built and 'forever' is a tag for the Son.

The creation account gave us a clue to the house,- he house with seven pillars is called Zion and is built by Wisdom and it is held up by the word of his power. It explained the claim of Jesus , "My Father works hitherto, and I also."

"Out of Zion the perfection in beauty God has shined, is the Will of the Father and New Jerusalem is the body of Christ from which the law shall proceed. The scroll that God gave Ezekiel to eat is a symbolic act for us: "If we suffer with him we shall also reign with him." The parable of the city on hill explains the three layered divine Will. Each member of the house of God is the message, he is a symbol and also a body which is a spiritual body since God is a Spirit

Jesus claimed, "Before Abraham I was." This holds true for us and we shall be even as Christ Jesus was. We're part of the body. We have been foreknown and blessed with all the spiritual blessings in heavenly places in the Son. The Parable of Jesus of the laborers in the vineyard ought to teach us with regards to time. We are predestined in him.

A Study of Ezekiel-the glory of God

(1 of 2)

The inaugural vision of Ezekiel is of immense value in understanding the narrative mode of the Spirit. While the three heavens described in the Book of the Revelation (ch.6) are static here it is all on the go. The Spirit tells through it is that God is ever present in our circumstances however contrary it may appear to us as in the case of the prophet among the captives in an alien land. Secondly the glory of God is also equipping us for a future the present holds no comparison. The present is temporal while glory that we receive in our Saviour Lord is the hidden manna he has promised to the overcomer. God giving Ezekiel the roll that carried writing with in and without gives a foretaste of our calling, we are priests and kings in eternity.

It means that we have become the message as the body of Christ. The law shall go forth from Zion in us shall be fulfilled. New birth experience of the overcomers in the new heaven and in new earth established why we were chosen in the Son before the foundation of the world. Writing on the inside and without the scroll is to indicate our fellowship covers both Alpha and Omega aspect of Jesus Christ. What handwriting against us existed as St Paul writes, he nailed it the cross. All former things have been forgotten. Re.22:2 shows only one tree of life overarching the Alpha and Omega.

"Open your mouth and eat what I give you," The Spirit establishes the supremacy of the word with which God framed the worlds. His will is multi-layered where the Law is signified by what is written therein. By eating it the Spirit wants us to understand that Ezekiel became the message. He has become a symbol for the nation of Israel. "And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear "(Ez.3:7) This rule shall apply and the messenger is to deliver it without adding thereto or without holding back. .

Meditations on Ge.1

Ge.1:1 In the beginning denotes the will of God the Father; 'In the fullness of time'(Gal.4:4) refers to the Son. The Spirit presents "the generations of heavens and the earth" which requires some explanation.(Ge.2:4)The divine Will three layered-in visual terms Re. Ch.4 gives the throne from which thundering and lightning proceeded-the word was with God.

When we consider the Will of the Father as word-it is sound as well as sign; This is the basis for symbolism used by the Spirit. Thirdly the face presents heaven interacting with the earth.

In the first day God separated light from darkness ('which was upon the deep.") On the day Four we read that God sets the sun moon and the stars for signs." And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth. Here we have the natural function of the celestial objects in a visible world and the signs of the greater light and the lesser light to rule as well as to separate the light from the darkness. The superimposition of signs in vv17-18 is our cue: God wills a nation of light separate from nation of darkness. 1:4 is distinct from 1:18.

The seven days can be divided into two in terms of the Father Son relationship. Be ye holy for I am holy. The seven days of which four days defined The Power Wisdom and glory of the First Cause. "My Father works hitherto, and I work." The remaining three days pertain to life to which the Son is the prince of life. I am the life."

God blessed man as St Paul writes in the epistle to the Ephesians (1:4) and on the day seven he sanctified the day which He has decreed for the Son. In short the heaven and the earth created (1:1) is a closed system. The cause and effect of the Father Son relationship applied to the heirs of inheritance in light. It is an open call: whosoever believes in the Son shall have everlasting life. Touch no unclean thing; be ye separate and I shall be a Father to you. It is a promise and all the promises of God are yea in the Son.

Ge.1:1

Seven Pillars of Zion

In the beginning refers to the will of God. V.2 the earth was consequently without form, and void. The worlds were yet to be brought to light by the true light.

The writer to the Hebrews annotates God created the worlds by the word which he also adds that he upholds them by the word of his power.(He.11:3; He. 1:3) In short Zion the house has seven pillars (Pr.9:1) and built by God, which is to be understood in the context of the Father Son relationship. Seven in the parlance of the Spirit refers to perfection. The seven days refer the perfect will of God and on the Seventh day He rested.

Let's consider each day. God separated light from darkness. God as the Father of lights established the Son as the true Light. The Spirit at the end of each day gives us this formula: "And the evening and morning was the first day and so on. This sequence goes on till there shall be no more night. Re 21 is where these seven sequences are leading us to.

The seven days given in the creation account are like seven columns entered in the ledger of the divine Will. These are under the heads of generations, and it is how the Spirit has entered in the scripture-"These are the generations of the heavens and the earth," The earth is singular.(Ge.2:4).

"God saw that the light was good "referring the wii of God has this,-and it is left for the Son,"And God separated the light from the darkness."(Ge.1:4-ESV) Second day separation of waters with the means of heaven, has the Father Son relationship implied. When the Son says it is done in the new heaven and new earth it reveals the foundation of the House with seven pillars and it is Zion. The face of heaven shows twelve foundations of assorted jewels radiating the glory of God and of the Lamb. The light separated from darkness has radically changed the quality of the sky or the firmament. The sea is replaced by the river of the pure of life pouring from the throne of God. It is for the saved nations to drink from

Re.13:8 (2 of 2)

The Book of the Lamb"

This book of Remembrance is the book of the Lamb. This is the basis by which God has blessed man in his Son.("For he chose us in him before the creation of the world"-Ep.1:4-NIV) and it is left to the Son to determine whose names should be included or left out.

Consider those who compromised with temporal powers represented by the beast ,- they forfeited their place, "whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"(Re.13:8). They did not, as Jesus would say gather with him. "Truly they have received their reward in full"(Matt.6:2-NIV). They won in this world but not everlasting life, the reward Jesus could give. "My reward is with me to give every man and according his work shall be."(Re.22:12). So predestination is the Fellowship of God with Man for which the emblem of the slain Lamb signifies the everlasting covenant written in the book of the Lamb and countersigned by the blood of Jesus. The throne of God on one part and the throne of the Lamb on the other carry all the overcomers foreknown by God. Those who have been left out proved their DNA did not match the faith, which is one.

Re.13:8 (1 of 2)

Book Of The Lamb

"Whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

We shall begin with the commandment of God, "Take a census of the whole Israelite community by their clans and families, listing every man by name, one by one".(Nu.1:2-NIV).

The Heb. word Gulgoleth translates head. Christ as the Head gives him pre-eminence; and in the Fellowship of God with Man, every man is called to be counted in the Man component. 'Man created in our image' is not merely counted but is also written down in the book of the Lord. Under the name Zion there shall be names drawn from the earth. "And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her." (Ps.87:5)

This distinction helps us to under the term Predestination better.

In the divine Will we shall examine the Father Son relationship in terms of Cause-Effect. Under the Law of Moses every head was counted under Cause. In this context we can consider the book of the Lord is about the breath of God rendering his glory in terms of the living soul. Though the Israelites did not make it to the Promised Land but for Joshua and Caleb they have their entry in the book. God shall not deny his Holiness.

Owing to sin it could be MTP or genetic mutations, nevertheless all are counted, 'one by one', and as the Psalmist would say, but they are entered in 'thy book'. "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139:16)

What is 'thy book'? This book of the Lord is different from the Book of remembrance. So when God tells Noah "And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth."(Ge.9:16).

Bible Study: Ez.46:8-11 "The Prince"

When the prince enters, he is to go in through the portico of the gateway, and he is to come out the same way./When the people of the land come before the Lord at the appointed festivals, whoever enters by the north gate to worship is to go out the south gate; and whoever enters by the south gate is to go out the north gate. No one is to return through the gate by which they entered, but each is to go out the opposite gate./

"And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.." (Ez.46:10)

Here the prophet is referring to the Prince of peace, which is Jesus Christ. The key verse is referring to the humanity of the Son, whom God sent to the world. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," ( John 1:14). The prince is to be among them and he knew what he was there for. So before his death he informs, "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."( Luke 22:37), He was appointed to die once, even as they, Prophet Ezekiel speaks of it as go in and going out.

Now let us consider the manner the Prince enters in v.8. His Advent and Ascension is entirely at odds with how people of the land were to come in or go out. What is special about this?

In the Acts of the Apostles we hare given the Ascension. "And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;/ Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." (Ac.1:10-11)

The Prince of peace was sent by God and it is to him he returned. As for the rest, the command is, "No one is to return through the gate by which they entered, but each is to go out the opposite gate."

Hello Daruled,

When God says what is 'unforgivable sin' we simply accept the truth. God's commandment to Adam did not allow him to argue. So simply accept or leave it. Wisdom which we use to argue belongs to carnal wisdom. This kind of argument does not solve the issue. Jas.3:14-17

""But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth./ This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish./For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work." There is only way we shall understand Him. We need wisdom from heaven which is free. "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."(Jas.3:17)

Without truth as a moderator two may argue their heads off. Does it create peace in the end? So simply trust God and let his wisdom guide you. He has set Jesus as an example. When you receive him you have acquired wisdom as well. "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"(1 Co.1:30)

I also would like to point out that strictly speaking, that we are all "wrong" in that we are NOT PERFECT. I see the truth as a great multi-faceted gem, each one of us "sees" a single facet, the key is to understand that there is much more to "The Gem" than our own understanding, and that there is much more that we cannot see. Thus we must rely upon each other to "describe" the other parts of it"

Hello Chris, I thank you for your response for I love discourse about God and His ways. I'll start off by making a distinction, I didn't say that your use of the word "abrogation" was wrong, for you used it correctly (as far as it can be used correctly), but I said I don't believe in it, not because it can't used correctly, but because to believe in it, that is, to hold it as foundational to faith leads to a veering from the way of God. For example: to believe in abrogation of the law is to contradict Matt.5:18 and I cannot believe that there is one contradiction in The Holy Bible. So as a way to remain safely within bounds of scripture I have thrown out the concept of abrogation, and instead use the concept of "maturation".

Now, you mentioned Jews that are under the old covenant and would be judged accordingly to show that under the old covenant there is no forgiveness for sin, only judgement; for forgiveness is Only with Christ not the letter of the law. I understand the point you are making, yet I point out that what you are actually pointing out is something else; Jews that believe in the letter of the law rather than Christ are under a curse and that curse is for our riches for they are "cut off" that we might be "grafted in".(please read Rom. Ch.11) So, what the Jews believe (the law) is not abrogated, but matured into The Spirit, that is, The Holy Spirit. So the Jews are wrong, yet they are wrong because God made them to be wrong, for our sake! For God Chose them for election, and a great thing about Election is that Election doesn't require any action from the elected, ONLY the act of God choosing! You see, there are two types of elect 1)the elect that are elect because God Chose them before the foundation of the world and, 2)the elect that are elected because The Elect are "cut off". So, to say that the two could never be fused together isn't correct because the elect are attached to The Elect

Discussion on Matthew 10: Near term and far reaching prophetic implications.

When we see Matthew 10 and compare it with Luke 10 we see some differences. Those in Matthew 10 were told only to go the lost sheep of the house of Israel ( Matthew 10:6). Such was NOT the case with the 72 in Luke's account. We see there is no return mentioned of the Disciples as was with the 72 in Luke 10:17. The same cities were rebuked in Matthew 11:17 as they are in Luke 10:13-15. (incidentally these cities were rebuked BEFORE the Disciples retuned which also signifies their lack of belief in the miracles of Christ Himself if not implying their lack of response to the Gospel and miracles the Disciples and 72 performed in both Gospel accounts).

When we look at Matthew 10 we see far implications; persecutions; being hated by all nations for His Name's sake; going to trial with kings and rulers and finally verses in verse 22:23. "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." This is a clear indication of the Tribulation as indeed this refers to the Second Coming. It is notable today that one cannot be a citizen of Israel if declaring themselves to be a Christian. The only other option here is to somehow imply the Lord came already as a Full Preterist viewpoint which says somehow Christ already returned in AD 70. The implications here are not only for the Disciples but all those who are going to suffer persecution for His Name's sake; perhaps particularly but not only related to the cities of Israel. Also the 144,000 and 2 Prophets would also be something bringing the climax and greatest challenge for Israel ever seen in the time of "Jacob's Trouble". ( Jeremiah 30:7). God promises deliverance eventually; by death or Rapture or Resurrection.

Agape.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for your reply, I've been on a two-day work trip and couldn't find time to engage.

I thought you were giving these guys a break on their belief because they are friends of yours. I also consider them as friends of mine, and I care for them as well, but I won't compromise because this is far to important. Bro Dan and I have had a friendly debate in the past, before you joined the site.

Adam and Chris were the two guys that stood out and influenced me when I joined the site a few years ago. I have a lot of respect for Adam and his zeal for truth and righteousness. I just believe he on the wrong side of Salvation if holds to anything other than salvation is by grace alone.

If I was to take those positive things they display and act if those things trump the belief of salvation by grace and join their side in this debate fearing I might defend them. I would be putting before God, Thats Carnal.

I have to go now. My wife is kidnapping me.

I will be back later.

God bless.

They have stuck to this position for years.

Further insights to Revelation 1

Verse one states:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This verse shows much like Matthew 24:36 that some things apparently are still appropriated by the Father; at least in regard to the timing of events in the future and the day and hour they begin. Admittedly; this is a mystery as Christ is fully God and fully man but we can learn the Godhead and how the Son does nothing apart from the Father here at the very least ( John 5:19). Indeed that verse says the Son can do NOTHING of Himself; which could have been particularly true during His earthly ministry.

Nonetheless we see that death could not overcome Him ( Acts 2:24). God exalted Him as High Priest and King and gave Him all authority in heaven and earth positionally ( Matt. 28:18); restoring the position which He no doubt had since He was the One who created all things ( Colossians 1:16).

verse 3 states Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. It reminds us of the verse in Revelation 22:12 where He states that He comes quickly; and the delay of the church age can be seen in the verse Habakkuk 2:3 where it says although it tarries wait for it and the original language shows that it will surely come in its time and not delay. There is a crown; in fact for those who patiently wait for it; we are warned against losing our crown in Revelation 3:10. See also 2 Timothy 4:8 and Malachi 3:16.

The subsequent chapters show what happens when one casts aside their first love (with the Ephesian church); and other churches as to false doctrines. Since only God knows when the Rapture and subsequent Tribulation begins; any attempt for Satan to bring it forth sooner will fail so many will not believe it when it truly comes.

I would also add that we can look to Christ Himself who apparently "broke" the Sabbath law by healing on the Sabbath; having Disciples eating grain and thus "doing work"; etc. ( Matt. 12:1). Jesus replied a few verses later that the Son of Man was Lord of the Sabbath. Therefore Christ in His obedience did what He always did as a member of the Godhead; did all the works of the Father and of course as a man lived sinlessly. The one who created the Universe and was Divine Himself no doubt with the Father created the very laws themselves as well as all laws of physics in the universe. He could also do things such as desire and demand worship and be a jealous God as well as being able to hate perfectly and love that way as well. God's nature therfore is reflected in the law; and the lawless one (Satan) comes to remove all restraint.

So therefore to be free from the law we can choose to follow the Spirit or God forbid use it as a license to sin. ( Romans 6:1). That is what determines if we are truly free as a slave to Christ; or living what seems right to us but leads to death ( Prov. 14:12). Freedom is in following Christ and part of the New Covenant; but doesn't remove the universal laws affecting things such as murder and divorce and adultery (such as seen in Mark 6:18). This shows how even pagans are under covenant vow obligations. There are ceremonial laws and special O.T. laws specifically for Israel (which would cover the Sabbath Day requirement). That differentiation can help us understand things better; Jesus goes one step beyond with murder and adultery with the state of the heart. We also need to look at sins of omission as well as commission and how things affect others with a sort of ripple effect. Outer actions reflect the fruit of our inner most being; and whether we have a new heart or heart of stone

( Ezekiel 36:26).

Christ needs to Lord of all or He is not our Master; we must fall on the rock or be crushed ( Matt. 21:44).

Agape.

Sorry, 2 Peter 2:19 should read as, 2 Peter 1:19.

I meant those who tasted the heavenly gift etc can NOT be renewed to repentance.

Simply put; the Holy Spirit is the method of displaying Christ's presence on earth. Hebrews 6:4-8 as well as 1 Peter 2:3 show that those who have tasted the heavenly gift and other things of the Spirit as well as the powers of the coming age to be renewed once again to repentance once fallen away. This ties in for several reasons to the text in Matthew 12:31. We must remember first of all that much like Satan Himself Christ's works were made manifest for all men to see and thus nothing more could be done after witnessing undeniable miracles such as blind being healed which had never been seen in O.T. times. Also; of course the Pharisees accused him of using the power of Beelzebub to perform His miracles; despite the fact that the Spirit even before the church age was there such as with John the Baptist to convict the world of sin; righteousness and judgment to come. ( John 16:8). The Pharisees denied the Divinity of Christ and that was after all they saw and Christ saying that He was the I AM ( John 8:58). Therefore they wouldn't accept worshipping Him and His Divinity as a member of the Godhead was hidden from them. Therefore Satan was truly their God. ( John 8:44).

Satan Himself was built on pride and self-exaltation therefore was mad enough to desire worship for himself despite being in heaven and seeing God's glory and no doubt the earth and the rest of Creation therefore he was given no chance of repentance ( Job 38:7). We see singing in that verse; something Lucifer as Cheribum was designed to do in charge of worship but it was turned to evil. By default then Satan is the God and loyalty of all who do this to the Spirit; most will sin and admit God is righteous or simply hate God or be afraid (as in the sixth seal); eventually Satan will be sent for those who LOVE not the truth but a lie ( 2 Thess. 2:10). Like it or not Antichrist will eventually blasphemy God and yet all those not in the Book of Life will worship him and be damned ( Rev. 13:8).

Thanks. You seem to be my biggest prayer partner here. Surely have and still have many praying for me. It is the detailed prayers that I hope to see in my own church more often. We have one hour online prayer; mainly due to those few that are indisposed and shut in unable to attend live prayer or church.

So I ask that Lord willing as I attend church Sunday that somehow the message can be brought home even perhaps with the prayers for me for more in the church to involve themselves in prayer and not just in set apart times. I may have mentioned that there is scant prayer for women among themselves; I think some are in a side function of seniors. We have some younger women in particular that need; in my opinion to be more impromptu in prayer. Focus should be on praying BEFORE the sermon; those that DON'T attend Sunday school have more time that they could set apart to pray for new people attending which is one thing I am concerned about. Such activity after the service is good as well; we really need prayer by the elders offered for the sick which NEVER seems to be a part of the service such as anointing with oil or perhaps requesting anyone needing prayer to talk to the Pastor; elders or other parisioners after the service. Finally there is a plan called "operation saturation" where the Pastor and a few others are targeting every home in my community. Last time I was late getting there after work but asked the Pastor that next time we could pray before handing out the literature for our church.

As you can see prayer is something on my heart here. I have a feeling the suicide of one of the Pastor's sons decades ago has caused him to have some trepidation especially with instigating some sort of teen group in our church. One of the ladies holding our small group has the idea of getting a youth Pastor in training to help things get started.

You can pray the coffee house and bands coming will bring people to church Sunday as well.

Agape RP

Bibleman72,

I am so glad that your mom has been able to move from the hospital. I pray that she will thrive in the nursing facility.

I also pray for you in regards to receiving transportation assistance in every way you need it. May the Lord bless you and your mom everyday in so many ways. We all need Him so, and He is happy to meet our needs. God's blessings to you tonight and everyday. I will remember to pray for you and your Mom. Thanks for letting us know your news.

Dear Richard,

I have remembered you in my prayers. I noticed that you hadn't posted or a week or so since you got home from the hospital and I was thinking that maybe you needed to be readmitted. Oh, how wonderfully the Holy Spirit works in us, right!

I am so very sorry that you developed such a serious infection following your surgery and needed another hospital stay. But that is what was needed to get the infection cleared up and assist your gastrointestinal system during this time. Thankful for the care you received and that you are now back home. I will continue to pray for you and the recovery period you are facing. And know that we notice when you are not posting here! This is a BIG ordeal for you to go through and the outcome could have been so very different. God has preserved you through this illness. May the Lord strengthen your body, heal your immune system, allow you to get the nutrition your body needs, and help you get back to some normal routine activities soon.

My heart goes out to you as you have been through the ringer! There is a praise report somewhere in this, I am confident, but today, just getting through the moment is pretty much where you are at. Be built up in your spirit as you wait to return to normal as you reach the complete healing that God will provide for you.

Thanks Jimbob. Our completely different understanding of those verses is clear, so others can decide as to what they speak of. But to your statement, "Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy", I guess I must be the odd-man out. I see the OT as the prophecy given & the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be.

Then to 2 Peter 2:19, "We have also a more sure word of prophecy". This word from Peter refers back to verses 16-18. Here, he affirms that what he is sharing about Jesus' Coming & Glory & also from his presence at Jesus' Transfiguration, were not the result of fables (maybe even from human imaginations), but his words to them were confirmation of the prophecies of old concerning Jesus. And this "sure word of prophecy" gave a double affirmation to his readers because he (Peter) was an immediate witness to Jesus' Life & Words, to His Glory & Power. So, the prophecy of Jesus was given in the OT, but Peter was a living witness to that prophecy, now fulfilled, having now a "sure word" to give them, to which they can't deny. So, I see no reference in this passage to "the Bible we have today". Blessings.

Hi Daruled.

That was very nicely explained.

Welcome to the site and God bless.

Chris

I would think every Christian who believes God preserved His Word and believes Every Word of God is pure would say ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) in context these holy men of God who were moved by the Holy Ghost to bring a ((more sure word)) of (prophecy) in old time are the translators of the KJB. This is how we got the KJB, If God preserved His Word like He promised us He would in ( Ps 12:6-7) Then ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) in context is the KJB translators who were moved by the Holy Ghost, that has Nothing to do with the OT prophets. IT IS PROPHECY.

Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy.

You said "holy men of God" clearly refers to the OT prophets".

( 2 Pet 1:19) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy" prophecy #4394; it means prediction (scriptural or other) prophesying.

That more sure word of prophecy is the Word of God, its the Bible we have today. If what you are saying is true then that would mean the more sure word of prophecy spoken of here is the Hebrew manuscripts, or the Old Testament!

You must know that's not accurate Chris.

The (prophecy) is the subject in these verses, it is in context, ( 2 Pet 1:20) "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

not just prophecy but ((prophecy of the scripture)) (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it) scripture.

These verses are very clear that to say the OT prophets are being spoken of here, is completely out of context!.

Again if any are seeking the Truth (Truth is Christ) on youtube will show you how the KJB is the perfect, Inspired Word of God.

Thank you for your comment Chris but I am not the one who's wrong on this one friend, you are.

Blessings to you and to all who seek His Truth.

GiGi on Numbers 35-YHWH instructs...

1-YHWH

2-Yahweh,

3-Yehovah,

4-Elohim,

5-Adonai,

6-HaShem,

7-Yahusha

8-YEHshia

9-Jehovah

10-YEHvah

These 10 are one.Wouldn't they be the name of the father of the Jews? John 8:44-45.

I am asking because according to the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD-, Acts 4:11-12 say:

11-JESUS is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other NAME under HEAVEN given among men, whereby we must be saved.(Yes, there is none other NAME under HEAVEN except JESUS,that is the NAME that the own GOD chose for He Himself.JESUS said:I and my Father are One- John 10:30.And in the fourth Day after Adam,or around 2000 years ago,JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto(it was still the fourth Day),and I work- John 5:17). In my understand,GOD was never called by nicknames as above listed.The name of GOD is only one:JESUS.

I don't quite understand why people lend credence to Kabbalistic and esoteric, and spiritists, sources(?)Think about it.

"Yehovah", "Yehovih", et al. as above listed,are considered sacred names in Kabbalah,so what? I find this absurd. But what does the Word of GOD say? 1Tim.4:1-2:

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Beloved, believe not every spirit,but try the spirits whether they are of GOD:because many false prophets are gone out into the world- 1John 4:1.

1Jn 5:19-20:

19 We know that we are of GOD,and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come,and hath given us an understanding,that we may know Him that is true,and we are in Him that is true,even in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the true God, and eternal life.

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us,and give us His protection, now,and for ever.

Amen

Thanks Daruled for your explanation. And of course, what you say is correct, seeing that Romans 7:12 clearly tells us, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Words of that Holy Law given to Israel from the Mouth of God.

You've stated that my use of the word 'abrogation' isn't correct, rather you "look for the maturation of the old thing" (i.e. the Law). In one sense, I do agree to what you've stated that the old, through the gift Holy Spirit, has 'matured' into a New Law now applicable to the Saint. However, the way I look at the Old Law, hence my writing of its abrogation (abolishment), is that the Law was bound to the Old Covenant (there could be no separation at all). If a Jew continued to follow the words & compulsions of the Law, he was still under the Old Covenant & under it he would be judged. But under the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, the Old Covenant has been abolished with its requirements for rigid obedience to the Law that was intrinsic to it, with its resulting judgements. The Law that only led to death had to be abolished so that the Law that gives life ( Romans 8:2) might be established. The two could never be fused together.

So why are we seeing this differently? I agree to the Words of the Law given to Israel are everlasting & those words can certainly be applied under the New Covenant. Yet, it's not just the Words themselves, but the nature of the Old Covenant that is in question. The Words might be similar & applicable, but since the New Covenant supersedes the Old, the Old can only give the believer in Christ a 'skeletal' view of what God now requires of His children. And this, the Old Law could never show Israel - but only after Jesus came & then under the New Covenant, the Spirit can reveal the full meaning, implications, & requirement of God for holy living, now accomplished in His Power alone. This the Old Law could never do, for it wasn't in its design.