Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 179

Are you from Calf mountain? Because I am!

Dear Frankie J.

You are free to think what you wish about me. But I also can flatly say that your evaluation is entirely wrong about me. Such judgments like yours do not shake me one bit. Actually, I am amazed that people on this forum spend time stating (and thinking) that they can see into a person's heart and know what God knows about a person's relationship with God and how the Spirit is or is not guiding someone.

Frankie, I have read many of your posts and there is much that I disagree with concerning your positions on many Biblical topics, but I know it is best to not do a back and forth with you. Your judgment of me has proved me right in that way.

You know Frankie, you play it fairly loose with many Scriptures and then at other times you cite Scriptures to back up your view and then other times you accuse people who learn from the Scriptures as not being taught by the Holy Spirit. Your inconsistency in this approach to Scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit shows me that it is best to not converse back and forth with you at length. I do wish you well and that you grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ; that you continue to seek the Lord and learn from Scriptures as the Holy Spirit guides you. That is how those of us who did not live with Jesus during His earthly life nor during the time the apostles were preaching and teaching converts learn of the faith once and for all passed down to the saints.

I can tell from your posts that you embrace Quakerism which teaches that people can get new revelation from God from the Holy Spirit through quiet contemplation or passivity. I do not believe this to be sound doctrinal practice and will stick with my Bible and the knowledge the Spirit brings forth to me through studying His true Word. I do not trust the revelations of men who claim that the Holy Spirit is teaching them things outside of what is written in Scriptures.

But this forum is open to all and I am glad you are here with us.

Hello again, Jema, I was out for a while today doing errands, and am between errands now, but I wanted to get back to you to give you this Scripture prophecy of the Old Testament king David in Ps. 16:10

"For Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt Thou suffer Thy Holy One to see decay."

This prophecy was about Jesus not David, as Peter declares in Acts 2:27 and through to vs. 36.

This prophecy of God through David says that the Holy One (Jesus-as Peter identifies the Holy One) was put in the grave bodily, but His soul went into hell. But, Praise God!, was not left in hell to suffer corruption or decay, but was raised up from the dead in body and soul, and was seen and touched by the disciples as Peter and John affirm to being eyewitnesses.

So, this verse in Ps. does say that souls went to hell when their body dies, and, unlike Jesus', our bodies decay. But since we were raised with Christ, our souls were raised up and are seated with Christ in heaven until the resurrection of our bodies on the last day.

This verse is so strong in revealing that souls live on after the body dies and reside either in the presence of God or in hell until the resurrection. I don't think that believer's souls go to hell as Jesus' did. He needed to have His soul in hell, alive and conscious so as to have completed the work of being condemned for our sins and to preach to those souls in hell whose bodies were long decayed into dust since the flood. What He preached I do not know, but His message is always to humans.

Jesus was also in hell in His soul in order to bring captives in His train as He rose from the dead ( Eph. 4:8) Also see Isaiah:61:1.

I also believe that Jesus bound Satan when His soul was in hell, gaining victory over Him. Since this binding, the gospel has been of great effect throughout the world-despite the presence of other evil beings that are not bound in hell as Satan is. But this is a study for another day.

Jema, hope this helps.

Jema,

I think it best for you to just pull up my post and see what questions I asked that you wish to respond to.

oops, Tnt, accidently hit send.

to continue:

Jesus was fully human in flesh and blood as John says in 1 Jn. 4:2 that true believers confess that the Son of God came in the flesh. And John also says in Jn. 1:1 that Jesus is the Word of God, was with God in creating the world with the Father and the Spirit, and was God. He still is God, the Word, the only begotten Son of God from all eternity, but since His birth of Mary, He is also fully human as well. Only one who is fully God could take upon Himself the nature of what He created in order to secure salvation for these He created from sin and death. And only one who is fully human can be the perfect sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity. It is a one for one exchange, the sinless one for sinful humanity, the second Adam (who lived a perfect life) for the first Adam (who sinned and brought sin to every human person generated through his disobedience). Jesus was the perfect, spotless, unblemished, sin-free human who was solely qualified to be an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. But He was also the perfect Divine Son of God of inestimable value to the Father who was given for us as this sacrifice. Jesus, the perfect human and most love Divine Son of the Father was the only way for mankind to be redeemed. This is the everlasting covenant made between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit before the creation of the world.

So, as Duncan cited, God is our only Savior, all salvation comes from God alone on Jesus, our Lord. There is no other God to save us but one true Godhead.

I hope that this is helpful.

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Hi Gigi; came in from work & notice the 1st part was not posted or have not found it.

quoting you

I realize that there are several differing views on this topic and I was just entering in what I believe to be true from my study of Scripture,,,, hopefully give something for others to ponder and seek out in the Scriptures as I do with what I read from others that think differently than I do.

I think it is a good thing for people to be open about their beliefs on here so that we can examine beliefs from differing angles and hold them up to the Word of God for verification. end quote.

What you've stated here is an evident token of not being taught of God by His Spirit, but is of human origin, the studying of the letter, without the Spirit guidance.

For the Spirit of God would speak the same thing to all, He's not double-minded

What you believe & stated leads one into a 'form of godliness" without the power to be truly godly as you've stated in another comment & I quote:

"the struggle we wage between the sinful nature & the reborn spirit within us"

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I gather from this statement is; you consider yourself to be born again, if so than you would have become a partaker of His divine Nature having "pass tense" escape the corruption that is in this world through lust, & according to your statement you're not, for you still struggling with the sinful nature. Therefore your not born again by the incorruptible Seed. John 5:18

Bruce Malouf on Genesis Ch. 41 continued

Six (6) years after my first comment on Gen Ch. 41 we are now only 4 months away from the New Year (2024).

From the numbers in Gen Ch. 41 we eventually get to 3:3:3 (please see my comment 6 years ago (2017).

We could also place more significance on this by recalling that the COVID Global Pandemic started ringing alarm bells in the third month of the third decade of the third millennium (March 2020).

But could the third number 3 not just be referring to the month but possibly the year that we're in right now, that is 2023?

As I said there's only 4 months of 2023 left now. With the invasion of Ukraine entering some sort of stalemate we won't have long to wait to see if 'the crisis' morphs into the final nuclear solution. So much has been said about global warming and the reduction of emissions by the year 2050, but if 'the crisis' does reemerge before the end of 2023, we won't have to worry about how hot it'll be in 2050, will we?

Where's the best website to get a good copy of a KJV Bible?

How long can someone live in a black slidden state and still be considered saved?

Hello Tnt

This is what I believe to be true:

God has no beginning nor no end. He is eternal in His Being as well as His essence.

Yet, we have in the Gospels the account of Jesus' conception and birth. Jesus, the eternal Son of God, Divine as the Father and Spirit are, took onto Himself a full human nature to become a man. He was born of Mary in about 6 B.C., being both God and man in one person. Th Divine Son of God was born into this world as a human infant, being in every way human but without sin, for the Divine Son of Man (who is the Person who took on human nature) can never sin. In every action, thought, word, motive, Jesus did, He did it as the Person of the Divine Son of God who remained the Divine Son of God in His humanity.

Some divide Jesus up into a human person and another divine person, where sometimes the human person is acting and at other times the divine person is acting. But Jesus was and is only one Person but with two natures since His incarnation, with both divine and human natures that are united but not mixed together (otherwise Jesus would be less that true God and also more than truly human).



Jesus told the Jewish leaders: "before Abraham was, I am" ( Jn. 8:58). The leaders took up stones to kill Him for they knew He was claiming to be God in using the name "I am" and also in saying He was in existence before Abraham lived, which speaks to His eternality.

Heb. 4:15 speaks of Jesus being tempted in every way in His human nature, but never sinned and never possessed a sinful human nature that we all do. But He was fully human, In Heb. 5:7 we are referred back to His time in the Garden of Gethsemane where He prayed to the Father with tears and supplication and the shedding of blood tears in facing the upcoming crucifixion. He

Jema,

Here is the Scripture citation;

1 Peter 3:18-19

Who is Lazarus ?

Is it fair for me to assume that , Simon the leper of Matthew Ch 26 V 6 is actually Lazarus of John Ch 11 V 1-6 ? Maybe his name is changed to Lazarus because it means God will help ? When Jesus reaches Bethany , Lazarus has been in the grave , or rather cave , for four days and his body will be corrupted and will smell like it . In Leviticus Ch 7 V 17+18 we read that meat should not be eaten even on the third day , as it is likely to be decaying , good advice which is still heeded by many today . Is it possible , that Jesus told the parable of the rich man and Lazarus ,when he was on his way to Bethany ? If so , it would add an even deeper significance to the final words of the parable : neither will they be persuaded , though one rose from the dead , might this imply that Jesus was not speaking of his own ressurection but of what he was about to accomplish in ressurecting Lazarus from the dead after four days ? In Ezekiel Ch 37 , we read of the ressurection of the bones of the whole house of Israel , which we are part of now having been grafted in . This , by implication , takes place after those bones have been laid in the earth for many years . Four days or four hundred or four thousand years , it makes no difference to the God of all creation . Luke Ch 20 V 38 . We are Lazarus , unclean in life as gentiles ( Lazarus was unclean in life because of his leprosy ) and in need of God's help .

HI,

Without contraversy GOD is Spirit and He is the beginning and the end.

as it is written in Isiah 43:11-13

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

12. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

13. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

And

As it is written in Psalm 102:27

But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Repent of your sins and believe in Jesus Christ the son of the living God.

No "work" qualifies any of us for salvation. Salvation by the grace of God. Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is made by: Romans 10:9-10 (KJV) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Yet, TRUE life-saving faith is not dead, it is not barron, it produces works not for salvation but out of love for Christ.

James 2:16-20 (KJV) 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Blessings!

BBE

10Waiting for his Son from heaven, who came back from the dead, even Jesus, our Saviour from the wrath to come.

DNT

10and to await his Son from the heavens, whom he raised from among the dead, Jesus, our deliverer from the coming wrath.

These alternate translations might be a little clearer, yet I still prefer the KJV rendition.

Blessings!

Hi Gigi , with regard to your questions to me , can you please tell me which scripture you believe refers to Jesus going to hell , I don't use the word hades as to me , it's a Greek mythology term . If you let me know which scripture I will try to answer your question , thankyou .

Thanks Brother Ronald.

In Jude the vengeance of eternal fire is not referring to the fire rained down on them in regard to this topic because that fire wasn't eternal and that wasn't their judgement of their second death but the fire that awaits them will be the fire mentioned in Jude.

The example set forth in Jude is them being ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Same as the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

And the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation.

Jude is putting his recipients in remembrance that these all is reserved to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Have you noticed this group is twice dead, plucked up by the roots already before Judgement?

You can be dead while you liveth.

1 Timothy 5:6. So the body doesn't have to die to be considered dead in the vocabulary here and it doesn't take eternal fire to keep you dead.

I'm talking about the description of that everlasting punishment (Which is future for the unbeliever)

Scripture describes it as torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth due to the unquenchable fire.

There would have to be teeth to gnash and if that's just a metaphor for a reaction to pain, if there is no body or no longer any existence it doesn't make since.

It could be no reaction to it. Torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth is a reaction to the unquenchable fire in these particular verses.

God bless.

Hi Gigi , so sorry , I meant , can you please send your questions to my e mail :) . Never mind , I shall go back and try to find them in a day or two when I will have more time to give a proper answer .

Yes Ronald, Ezekiel Ch 33 V 11 . I would so hate this to become a bone of contention on here , I can't pretend to believe the same things as many other people on here do , if I don't say what my beliefs are I feel as if I'm being deceitful . That's the only reason that I mention them .

Hi S Spencer,

I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.

Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.

On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.

The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.

Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.

God bless,

RLW

This is what you are looking for...

RVG/KJV - Bilingual Edition (Black)

You have to get it from Chick Publications just do a google search.

After years of work, the Reina Valera Gmez (RVG) Bible is finally available. A true, "Textus Receptus" Bible, the RVG has been proofread and refined by Spanish-speaking Christians in 13 countries. This revision of the RV 1909 is the first Spanish Bible that is not the product of a small committee.

Thanks Chris. This does help.

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Friend, all of this proceeds from the lack of being Taught of God by His Spirit, bringing all that would surrender unto Him into the unity of the Faith of the Son of God, that is wrought within us by His Spirit, that we may be one even as He & the Father are One. Members of His Body, for the Temple of God is Holy.

John 17:21-23

Yes; the Spirit knows us through & through & we can be sure no one can never fool God.

Gigi & all, please consider the Truth that's being reveal here according to Scriptures, sound reasoning & the Witness within your conscience that will bear witness to Truth.

For it one's faith is wrong, so will one's life & final destination be. Matt 17: 17-21 James 3:11

I believe that there many on this site as you, who are sincere & do desire to truly know & serve the Lord, but are as I once was "deceived " by the traditions & teaching of men, meaning by studying the Scripture by the arts of science, the letter by the letter. I truly believed that I was being lead by God in this effort, I was deceived & that by the Harlot Rev 17:4-6

Again; all, please consider these truths

In love & truth

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE WHEN HEAVEN WAS CREATED IT TOOK A TREMENDOUS LOT OF ENERGY, (and i would think iwt; and that even natural mind and or brain development is all about smooth, relaxing, quiet energy) AND iwt that angels were created at the same time as they are part of Heaven and iwt that they do not ordinarily think unless it is all good and proper thinking for an angel and if it is not; they are fallen angels and probably become as men or women; but man is a little lower than angels; and we thus we do think; and if we think like an angel, we will become angels but if we don't; if we believe enough to become one; and if we truly wanted forgivenous; we will be forgiven. I think that man was created to give angels a place to go if they wanted a change form going throughout heaven viewing all of God's creation; and of course Adam was directed to look after the animals/ecology; but he failed and we failed.

Hi Gigi , I'm dealing with some family stuff at the moment so can't answer your questions at the mo , can I ask you to please , send this your reply to me , to my e mail so I don't loose it in the machine :) it didn't go to my e mail first time . I will try to answer your questions but it may be in a few more days and I don't want to loose them , thanks . Please be assured , I'm not trying to convince anyone into my beliefs , each of us must be convinced in our own hearts by the Word of God . This site had certainly made me think carefully about one or two of my beliefs . Please , I want to answer this message but I need it in my e mail so I can find it easily again in a few days :) .

Brother Ronald.

Part 2

This is a topic I don't believe should causes much division amongst Brothern, but it has been the hinge that holds some theology.

Everlasting punishment is hard to conceive in our finite mind, but Gods judgments are righteous.

Love you Brother ,

God bless.

Brother Ronald

Pt 1

I haven't fully followed this thread but I do know the belief of the participants because of previous pass discussions.

Getting down to the root of where this thread has turned based on this topic.

The question is "Are there a place of torment that unbelievers go and are they conscious while tormented?

"I believe so" though you and Jema has presented a good argument in this difficult topic.

I also struggled with this in the past, taking those various scriptures alone.

However, when we consider the incomprehensible holiness of God and the incomprehensible wickedness of flesh deprived of God's Spirit where there is no repentance, I believe that God's everlasting punishment is justified.

CAN WE TRULY KNOW THE STATE OF MAN'S FALLEN CONDITION IN THIS FALLEN WORLD?

Can a ungenerated heart repent?

Note: Man can change his action, but can he change his heart, apart from the spirit of God?

I believe we find the answer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

I believe this verse speaks of the Holyspirit restraining evil in the world showing God's patience until there is a certain number reached and God is going to say. Go get them!

This is a view I presented a few months ago and was constantly attacked by some while I was on vacation in the dispensationalism discussion.

Anyway, you see the condition of man's heart after the rapture when man take up war against the Lord in Revelation 19:19.

Also, the unrepentant heart is revealed in Revelation 16:10-11 "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Man's heart is in a state of everlasting rebellion against God-

Hi Nstew. Your questions can be easily answered by considering the texts we have in the KJV & comparing them to the Greek (the original language of the New Testament). As you have quoted Luke 3:38 (& you could examine all the preceding verses that give this genealogy), you will notice that "the son" are in italics; unfortunately, this comment section doesn't allow for italics. Whenever we see italicized words, we understand that the Bible translators inserted those words (not found in the original), to give the verse meaning & flow for us who only read it in English. Therefore, that verse would read, "Which was of Enos, which was of Seth, which was of Adam, which was of God". We know that Enos, Seth, & Adam were humans who had wives & bore children through the fertilization of human seed; but God created Adam without the need of a human contributing seed, therefore "of God", or "the son of God" seems reasonable & should be so understood as being different from human conception. I hope this helps to clarify these verses for you.

Hi S Spencer,

It is late here and to me, your post is deep in understanding, and I will do my best to reply, love you brother. I am an old man and if you could explain what you agree on with GiGi would help.

God bless,

RLW

GiGi

The souls under the altar in ( Rev 6:9) were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

Their soul and their spirit would go to be with God, not just the spirit. These were slain for the Word of God.

In ( Rev 20:4) We see the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These souls were beheaded for the witness of Jesus so their soul and spirit would go to be with God, not just the spirit.

These verses are speaking of only the souls of those who were killed for the Word of God or for the witness of Jesus.

All other souls would be in the graves awaiting the resurrection.

Maybe this could be a missing piece to someones puzzle.

Blessings to you GiGi.

And all who seek his Truth.

And GiGi I would really like to recommend a web site to you that has some truly amazing information about the KJB being the infallible pure Word of God. And this man proves that to be a fact in many of his videos in many different ways. Some of it really is Amazing to see.

Google (Truth is Christ) on youtube and watch some of the videos please.