Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 189

Thanks brother Jesse for all the information provided. May God bless you for the effort and work done to collect all that info and copy them for us in this site. GBU

Hello Chris

I have done a research and found out that you quoted 1 Cor 15:55 from the critical edition of the NT, not from the Received Text.

Good Morning Preacher of Truth

Actually there are other cities built on or between 7 hills, Jerusalem being one of them as well as Babylon, Moscow, Mecca, Lisbon, Tehra, Ammon and 19 U.S. cities also.

Every 'deception' and 'truth' can be confirmed with the 'Word of God' for the 'Word is God ' ( John 1:1). It is the only Book in the world that is able to do that. The unfortunate part is that mankind in its natural state is not able to understand it ( Cor. 2:14). For that reason every person needs to repent and turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:16-18).

There is only one City in the world that is built on seven mountains ( Rev. 17:9) and that is Rome: the Capitoline, the Quirinal, the Viminal, the Esquiline, the Caeline and the Aventine.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

Dear Friends

Babylon the Great Desribed is present day Christinity,

it doesn't take away one sins, meaning one continue in it for life, turning the Grace of God into lasciviousness

it doesn't comform one to the image of His Son, the Divine Nature, having escape the corruption of this world through lust

& it leaves one, one with the world, in the lust of the flesh, eyes & the pride of life of this world.

it feed one from the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, the wisdom that from below, for instance Jesse teaching & not from the Fountain of the Spirit that comes from the Tree of Life, the Lord God from heaven, who is the Life, Spirit & Substance of all things

Jeremiah 50:11-16

Revelation 18:4-8

in love & truth

Once we die our spirit is no longer confined to time as we understand it. God is outside of timeonce our earthly body dies, our consciousness is immediately outside of time with the Lord. We aren't waiting for our children to grow old and come be with us, those of our loved ones who go on living after we die will be with us at that instant. It's a hard concept to comprehend because we are so aware of "time" in this lifewe obsess over it, but the moment we leave this mortal plane and enter eternity, "time" will no longer exist as we perceive it now. Our bodies sleeping in the graves is from the point of view of those who are still living on this side of eternity. That's the way I understand it

Hello Jema, and thank you.

I see these "gaps", as you call them, as well. I also see statements made and then verses quoted that often do not relate to what is being stated. And I rarely respond to these types of posts.

I do try to quote verses to support what I'm stating. In fact, I like to actually include the words of the verses themselves rather than merely the reference, because our focus should be on God's Words not our words. I don't want anyone to trust what I say. I want us to trust what God says.

Also we must recognize that if we have come to any truth from the Bible it is only because of God's Mercy. It is God that must open our Spiritual ears and give us ears to hear, from the Scripture, in His time in accordance with His Will. We are not in control of this; God is. We must wait upon God. By nature we do not like that idea; we want to be in control. And this often leads to frustration. But we must wait upon God.

May God lead us into truth as we search His Word.

Part 20

Therefore all people wait humbly for the candle of the Lord, that therewith ye may search out Babylon, and may come to see what of her treasures ye have gathered; that ye may throw them away speedily, and give up your ships and vessels (wherewith ye have trafficked for these kinds of wares) to the fire of the Lord's jealousy; that ye may receive the durable riches; that ye may hear the joyful sound of the everlasting gospel, and know the true Christ which it alone reveals; and come to fear and worship and glorify the true God; and not go down into the pit or lake with the dragon, the beast, the whore, and false prophet, which will be the portion of the most zealous false worshippers. And when your eyes come once to be opened in the true light, ye will bless the Lord for giving you these warnings, and not be so angry at us (who have paid dear for them) for our willingness, if it be possible, to save you some of the charges they have cost us: however, at least to preserve your souls from that ruin and dreadful destruction which all the paths of Babylon lead to.

Part 19

But now Sion is redeeming, the true woman bringing back again out of the wilderness, she brings back the true, everlasting gospel with her; and there is an angel chosen in the power of the Lord (even in the same power and spirit that first preached it) to preach it again to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. And the Lord hath so ordered it, that he will have the voice of this angel as despicable to the wise in religion, to the zealous in devotion, of all sorts in this backsliding age, as the former preaching was to the wise and devout both among the Jews and Greeks. So that whosoever is wise in religion according to the flesh; whosoever is wise in expectation and waitings for the kingdom; whosoever is wise in reasoning about it, and can tell the foregoing signs of it, &c., shall not know the voice: but he that can shut his eyes by the leadings of the pure life, and enter into the hidden womb of wisdom, where the light of life is sown, he shall be new formed, and come forth a child out of the womb of wisdom, with the new eye, the new ear, the new heart, the new understanding and senses; and keeping in the childish simplicity, out of the wisdom, zeal, and devotion which deceived him before, he shall receive and enter into the everlasting kingdom.

Part 18

Now all this time, while Babylon stands, while antichrist sits in the temple, while Satan reigns over all the antichristian world, the true and living God hath not been known, feared, nor glorified; but men's knowledge hath been of a false god they have set up, and him they have feared, and given the glory to, in their worship. Nay, the gospel hath not been preached; the true gospel, the everlasting gospel, the gospel wherein is the light and power of eternal life, to turn men from all antichristian forms of knowledge and worship, to the true life and power: but when Babylon falls, and Mount Sion begins to appear again, then the gospel is to be preached again, even by an angel, who receiveth it from God himself, Rev. 14:6-7. for man could never recover it again: it requires a new inspiration. "The law is to go forth out of Sion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." And this gospel is to be preached "to every nation, kindred, and tongue, and people," ver. 6. Mark: there was not one nation, not one kindred, not one tongue, not one people that kept the everlasting gospel; but it was laid up in Sion; it was carried with the church into the wilderness, and there it hath been hid all the time of the apostasy, since the days of the apostles

Part 17

The dragon is the devil; the beast is that spirit of the earth which he raiseth up, and feeds in men with a form and appearance of truth; to which he gives his power, his seat, and his authority: and every man hath a measure of this according to his state and condition, place and service in Babylon. And now what a man doeth here in religion, be he ever so devout and zealous, and frequent in ordinances and duties, is the worship of this spirit, and of the dragon who sits and rules in this spirit. I am run into hard expressions, very hard, because the nature of these things is hid from men's eyes, and they are in the mist of antichrist's raising, in the smoke which comes from the pit, where there is no opening of the true eye, and no true sight of things; but truly if ever you espy the dragon, the beast, antichrist, the whore, the false prophet, ye must look at home, and read within; and there having found the thing, and seen it in the true light, ye will be able to see it certainly abroad also. Now do not go about to distinguish these things in the notion of the understanding; but come to feel the life, to unite with the life, and the eye will open which can see into the nature of things, and will behold all in its season; for that eye which is so eager to see, shall never see these things; but that eye alone which waits in stillness and quietness on the pleasure and good-will of the opener.

Part 16

And as antichrist got up thus, so antichrist will go out thus. He will raise up this power, and what lying signs, wonders, and miracles he can, to defend himself with, now the spirit of the Lord is risen up to dispossess him, and cast him out of the house which he hath long lodged in. And he that can be cozened with power, with signs, with lying wonders, (which are lying because they come from the spirit of deceit, with an intent to deceive, though they may come to pass, and appear true to man's eye. Deut. 13:1-3) or with any of the deceivableness of unrighteousness, shall never come out of Babylon; but only be translated into some of the more refined chambers of it, and fed with some more fresh likenesses of truth, where he shall still remain an inhabitant and worshipper in some image, perhaps of universal love, life, and liberty, and yet be out of the life, out of the love, out of the liberty of the truth, which stands in the power and presence of the spirit of God, and not in the most refined image or likeness.

"All the world wondered after the beast, and they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast, and they worshipped the beast." Rev. 13:3-4.

Part 15

Now mark this: antichrist's coming, when first perceived, was very mighty, exceeding strong. 2 Thes. 2:9-10. "Whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness," &c. Weigh the thing well. Satan used all his art, and all his strength, to conceive and bring forth this mystery of iniquity, so like the mystery of godliness, that it might pass for current in the world, and he rule as God in it. With all power, &c., no power of deceit wanting; he did not spare for signs, and lying wonders; yea, he gave power to the beast to do wonders and miracles, even to make fire come down from heaven on the earth, in the sight of men (which was the sign and wonder whereby the God of Israel was distinguished from Baal; power to work this very sign Satan gives to the beast, to confirm the godhead of the dragon and antichrist with). Rev. 13:13-14. These are the things men look for; see but great power, signs, miracles, they are satisfied. The whole world stands ready to be deceived with this. Yea, and if the eye be not opened in persons, which can distinguish of power, they must needs be deceived. Signs, wonders, and miracles had their place in the first covenant, and were to that part to which the first covenant was; not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. Now after the full demonstration of the truth by signs and miracles, the power of Satan riseth up; and by lying signs, wonders, and miracles overturneth the truth. Now the unbelieving part in man expects and calls for signs and miracles, and says they will determine the controversy, and settle the state of the church again; but that part is not to prescribe God his way; yea, he will steal as a thief upon thee, whose eye is abroad, and looketh for demonstrations without.

Part 14

In the temples of this city (for in all the streets thereof, yea, in every house, there are temples) antichrist sits as god, and is worshipped. 2 Thes. 2:4. "He, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." He hath clothed himself like God, he appears like God (like the holy, pure spirit of life and power), he appears in the temple of God, he sits there, he rules there, he gives forth laws and ordinances of worship and devotion. Yea, if any one will question his godhead, or his right to do thus, he will prove it, he will make it manifest in the very temple of God, that he is God: "He, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." He hath exalted himself into the throne, above all that is called God; he hath got into the temple, he sitteth there as God, and there he maketh it manifest to all his worshippers that he is God; insomuch as, among all the inhabitants of Babylon, he is acknowledged and worshipped, and the true spirit of life is hid from their eyes, and denied and crucified. He hath showed himself that he is God; he gives demonstrations of his godhead, which that eye which is out of the life cannot but acknowledge and take to be true. There is none can see and acknowledge the true God, the true Christ, but those that have the true eye, the true anointing ("no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the holy spirit," 1 Cor. 12:3); and yet how many can speak great words of God, and of Christ, who know not what belongs to the anointing? Alas! alas! all nations and sorts of professors, out of the life, are cozened with the devil's demonstrations, with antichrist's demonstrations, with the whore's demonstrations, with the false prophet's demonstrations, which are undeniable to that wisdom wherein they stand, and to that eye wherewith they look to see.

Part 13

And this city is a great city, a city spread over all the earth. "She made all nations drink of the wine of the cup of her fornication." Rev. 14:8. The woman, which is this city ( Rev. 17:18), "sat upon peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Rev. 17:15. She sat upon them as queen, as princess, guiding them in their knowledge and worship of the king of Babylon. And those that once hated her, and made war with her, and burnt her flesh with fire, she cozened them with a new paint, got them into her new bed of fornication, and made them worship the king of Babylon again, Rev. 17:12-13. and ver. 16-17. and there they lay committing whoredom with her, till the time of her last burning and utter desolation; but then they forsook her, for fear of her torment, when they saw the smoke of her burning. Rev. 18:9-10.

Part 12

And it is a spiritual city, a mystical city, a city built by the working of the mystery of iniquity, 2 Thes. 2:7. whereupon she is called mystery. Rev. 17:5. It is not a city of plain wickedness, but a city of sin hid; of sin keeping its life under a covering, under a form of godliness; of sin reigning in the heart under zeal, under devotion, under praying, believing, worshipping, hoping, waiting, &c. Where sin lies hid within under these, there is Babylon; there is the mystery of witchcraft; there is the painted throne of Satan; there is spiritual Egypt and Sodom, where the Lord of life is daily crucified. This is the city, the mystical city, the spiritual city. Rev. 11:8. And here is building up and throwing down continually. She builds; the spirit of the Lord confounds, then down goes her building; then up with another, then down again. This is her course without end, when the spirit of the Lord disturbs her; for otherwise she can settle in any form of knowledge or worship; though in her ordinary course she hath also many changes and turnings; one while this or that being a truth, another while not; one while this or that being the sense or meaning of such a scripture, another while not. Babylon is hardly ever without this kind of building up, and throwing down.

Part 11

Now, because ye are more able to receive things from scripture expressions, than from the nature of the thing itself, spoken as it is felt in the heart (concerning which much more might be said, were ye able to bear it), consider a few scriptures.

Babylon is called a great city, Rev. 16:19. and a great and mighty city. chap. 18:10. Oh, the power of deceit in that city, to bewitch from the life! Oh, the multitude of lying wonders that are there shown in the heart, to make a man believe that he is in the life! to persuade men that the king thereof is the king of Sion! and that the laws, and ordinances of worship there, are the laws and ordinances of Sion! that the prayer there, is the prayer of the true child! that the believing there, is the true faith! the love there, the true love! the hope there, the true hope, &c. Some parts of Babylon, some likenesses of truth there, are so taking, that none but the elect, by the opening of the eternal eye, can espy the deceit.

Part 10 Babylon the Great descibed

7. The end of all this, of Satan's building up this city, this great city (thus accurately in the power of deceit, and in the very likeness of Sion) was, and is, that it might be taken for Sion, and be worshipped there as God, and that without jealousy or suspicion. And he hath attained his end; his city hath deceived and doth deceive, it passeth current for Sion among all the inhabitants of Babylon; almost every sort of people cry it up for Sion, in one appearance or other, though all do not cry up the same appearance; but their own image, way, and worship, every one extols; their own image of the truth, for the truth; their own way of worship, for the way; their own church and family, for the church and family of God. And worshipping here, they worship him, and not the Lord: for the Lord cannot be worshipped in any part of Babylon; but the king of Babylon is worshipped in Babylon, and the king of Sion alone in Sion. Ah! how deeply do men deceive their souls! they think they believe in God, they think they pray to God, and hope to be owned at length by God, and yet are so far from coming out of mystery Babylon, that it was never yet so much as discovered to them; but they have either walked in the way of religion and worship they were brought up in, in the apostasy, or perhaps have removed out of one or two of the broad streets of it, and so thereby think they have left Babylon; whenas the same spirit hath set down in another street of the same city, building up another house by the direction of the king thereof, and there worshipping the same spirit as they did before; but their souls never knew the fire in Sion, and the furnace in Jerusalem; by which the very inwards of their spirits must be cleansed, before the pure eye of life be opened which can see Sion.

hi Star1964



Revelation 19:1

all to Him

What does it mean when Eve became the "mother of all living" ( Genesis 3:20)?

Romans Ch 6 V 23 , Isaiah Ch 26 .

What was Abraham's faith ? James Ch 2 V 23 , what did Abraham believe ? Genesis Ch 21 V 12 , in Isaac shall thy seed be called . Abraham recieves this promise from God and then what ? God , in Genesis Ch 22 , tells Abraham to offer this very same son , as a sacrifice ! God tells Abraham to kill his own son . Does Abraham hesitate ? No he does not and why not ? Because he believed in God's promise to him , ' in Isaac shall thy seed be called , Hebrews Ch 11 V 17-19 . This , belief in the ressurection , in God's ability to re animate a dead body , this was accounted unto Abraham for righteousness . Why do we have such a hard time believing it ? Shouldn't Abraham's faith be ours also ? God is able to do anything and everything , Romans Ch 6 V 23 . The Gospel is contained in that verse . We all die because we all sin . Those of us who believe in Christ , that he is the Son of God in the same way that Isaac is the son of Abraham , shall be ressurected . Those that don't believe will stay dead . It really is as simple as that , Romans Ch 6 V 23 .

Hello Oseas. My words, "death as confined to the grave" was in relation to death & the grave as being synonymous in that verse ( 1 Corinthians 15:55). I have since learned, that this is not the case when the Greek rendering is taken from other Bible translations & not the KJV & a couple of others. So "cause & effect" wouldn't apply in this comment to David0921.

But you asked, "where does the dying process of man begin?" I think your answer suggests that it lies in the tongue/the throat (from the references you gave). However, it appears that the sin nature in man begins right at birth, even whilst in the womb (even as David expressed it in Psalm 51:5; also Romans 5:12). The tongue is indeed "a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell" ( James 3:6), but the tongue can only do what this verse tells us, and that is when the root of evil in the human heart manifests such expression. And that 'root' is the sin nature passed onto each one of us, which we can't avoid, but yet find forgiveness & a new nature from Heaven, only through Christ's Blood shed for us.

Dear David , thank you for your kindness to me . There is something that I'm noticing a lot on here and it's distressing me . This is not personal to you so please don't take it as such . When a person , for some reason , finds a part of the Bible unpalatable , they ignore it , thereby creating a gap in the narrative , then they feel the need to fill that gap with their own imaginings or the imaginings of others . So many things seem so clear and straight forward to me and I get frustrated when others don't see what I see . I guess everyone on here could say that :) . This 'making up the gaps' or rather , the perceived gaps , really gets to me . This is why I don't enjoy in-depth debates . I always read and enjoy your posts , even if I don't agree with you :) . Posts that are just full of humans imaginings , cunningly devised fables I think Paul calls them , irritate me a lot . I need to keep away from such posts , I don't have the patience for them . I hope you have a great day today , I'm off to do some shopping for my parents . I thank God for life and I thank God so much for His Precious Work , the Bible , our comforter and strengthener and peace . I need it every day .

If you take a look at what is happening in Syria at the moment , you will find the answer to that question .

Thanks David0921. I believe we sorted out the 1 Corinthians 15:55 difference in translation from the Greek. And for the rest of you comment here, you're correct, "we have quite different views regarding..the Bible andits interpretation". So, I won't comment further on this matter, as there would be unnecessary & unfruitful repetition. GBU.

Part 9

6. This city was built (and is daily built) in imitation of Sion, painted just like Sion. The intent of its building was to eat out Sion, to suppress Sion, to withdraw from the truth by a false image, and to keep her inhabitants in peace and satisfaction, under a belief and hope that it is the true Sion; and therefore it must needs be made like Sion, else it could no way suit these ends. Every street must be like the streets of Sion; every house, like the houses of Sion; every tribe and family, like the tribes and families of Sion; every person, like the persons in Sion; all the laws, ordinances, &c., like the laws and ordinances of Sion; the worship, like the worship in Sion; the faith, like the faith of Sion; the painted Christ, like the Christ of Sion; all that go for truths, like the truths of Sion; they would not deceive else; Babylon would be soon seen through else, and become quickly desolate and forsaken, did she not lay her paint very thick, and with great art and skill. Now here is the wisdom, here is the true eye tried, to see through all the paints of this city, in all the shapes and forms of it; to turn from every street, every house, every chamber, every image and false appearance of truth; every false appearance of ordinances and ways of worship; every likeness of things which this spirit forms from the letter; every duty that it thus calls for; every promise of scripture which it endeavors to apply to that to which it belongs not, that it might lull the soul asleep, and cozen and deceive it of the thing promised; here, I say, is the true eye tried to turn from all this, and to wait for the raising and redeeming of the true seed of Sion, and for the springing up of the true life and power in it and from it: for as long as this spirit can deceive you with any likeness, ye shall never know the truth, nor come to the worship of the true, living God, which alone is in the spirit, and in the truth.

Will be continue....

Part 8

5. It is the city of the king of darkness, of the great king of darkness, of the prince of the power of the air, who rules universally in the darkness, in the mystery of iniquity throughout, even in every heart. Wherever is sin, there is Satan's throne; and there he hath his laws, his government, his power, in every heart of his dominion. And where there is the least subjection to him, he is yet a prince; his building is not as yet there wholly thrown down; he is not there as yet dispossessed and cast out. As long as there is any thing left wherein he may dwell, he knows his own, and keeps his hold of it. It is his right, and he will not lose it. All sin, all darkness, is properly his: it is his seat, and he hath the government there. Man is the land where these two kings fight; and whatever is good and holy belongs to the one king, and whatever is evil and unclean belongs to the other; and there is no communion or peace between them; but each keeps his own, and gathers of his own unto himself. And where the fight is once begun between these, there is no quietness in that land, till one of these be dispossessed: but then there is either the peace of Babylon, most commonly under a form of holiness; or the peace of Sion, in the spirit, life, and power.

Part 7 cont...

And here, in this there is a great difference between the vessels of Sion, and the vessels of Babylon. The vessels of Sion, they are weak, earthen, foolish, contemptible to the eye of man's wisdom (which cannot look for any great matter of excellency there); but the treasure, the liquor of life in them, is precious. The vessels of Babylon make a great show, appear very holy, very heavenly, very zealous for God and Christ, and for the setting up of his church and ordinances all over the world. Thus they appear without; but they are sepulchres; there is rottenness within: under all this there lodgeth an unclean, an unsanctified heart; a heart unsubdued to the spirit and power of the gospel, while it makes such a great show of subjection and obedience to the letter.

Part 7

4. It is a city of iniquity, of hidden iniquity. That which is hidden in this city, it is not the life, it is not the righteousness, the holiness of the saints; but iniquity, sin, transgression of the life. Look into any of the streets of Babylon, into any of the houses, any of the rooms, any of the chambers of darkness; there is sin there; there is unrighteousness there; there is not one cleansed heart to be found there; not one pure eye to behold the God of life is to be found there; but in every heart sin in a mystery, iniquity in a mystery, unrighteousness in a mystery. They seem to be for God and Christ, and to be cleansed by them; but uncleanness lodges in them, and sin rules in them against God, and against his Christ in a mystery; which their eye cannot see, and so must needs mistake their state. Yet this is the true state of Babylon, in all the parcels of it; it is the unclean city, where purity of heart and life cannot be known; but though it be washed and transformed ever so often outwardly, yet still it remains inwardly polluted; that which defileth keeping possession and dominion there in a mystery. The living water, the living blood, runs not in any of the streets of this city, so that there can be no true cleansing there. Nay, such strangers are the choicest inhabitants of Babylon to the fountain of life in Sion, to the river that cleanseth and healeth, that they cannot so much as believe that there is a possibility of cleansing and perfect healing, and making sound and whole here, while on earth. There is great talk of these things (of the water, the blood, the cleansing) in all the regions of Babylon (which hath heard of the fame, and forms to itself a likeness); but the thing itself is not to be found there, and so the virtue, which comes from the thing itself alone, cannot be felt there.