Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 194

HI Gigi

Deuteronomy 30:14-16 The law of Moses, the administration of the letter, OT gospel; outward

Romans 10:8 The Word of Faith, the administration of the Spirit, NT gospel inward

Hebrews 8:6-9

Chris,

I'm glad you brought up Hebrews 11. This chapter talks nothing about a place called "hades". That is your idea, not God's. Hebrews 11 is proof positive that these OT Believers lived and died in faith seeing the "promise a far off" of a Heavenly city "whose builder and maker is God", that is the Kingdom of God, New Heavens and a New Earth as they lived and died as "strangers and pilgrims" on this earth, just like NT Believes. They are our example.

There are many scriptures which show that the Salvation of OT and NT Believers were the same and that God applied the Salvation to them in the same way giving them a New Heart, A New Resurrected Soul, just like NT Believes. I have quoted several.

I am unaware of any scriptures where God talks about this never never land destination for OT believers called "hades". I have not found them.

And how does God's description of Mankind in Romans 3 fit into your picture of the Salvation of OT Believers.

Again, Chris, this is really a discussion about the very Nature of Salvation itself.

Thank you brother.

' Mystifying' a part of the Bible , applying an element of mystery to something that is either perfectly clear or doesn't even exist , is a tactic used by so called psychic prognosticators , peddlers of the so called supernatural , witches , wizards etc as they call themselves . We need to be confident that there are no mysteries in the Bible as we have it . That's not to say that we know everything about God , what I mean is that the information , the Bible , God's Words as He has given them to us , are clear and able to be understood by any one prepared to put the effort in . Some one very famous , I can't remember who and it doesn't really matter who , once said that , if a person had never heard of the word trinity and had no concept of what it was , they would never ever apply the idea to the Bible or any part of it . It's only those that have had the idea presented to them or have heard of it previously, who think they see it in scripture . I agree with this and I think that by saying that it's some kind of mysterious thing that we humans don't fully comprehend , does God a misservice , God is not the author of confusion and He does not lie , He is plain and clear and He wants us to understand everything that He has so mercifully allowed us to know about Him . Scripture will help you to understand itself , if you take time , read it all and pray for guidance . There are no mysteries in the information that God had given us , it's all perfect in and of itself , God has told us what He wants us to understand and believe about Him , to add an element of mystery is to add to His message . Read it , believe it , accept it as it is and be thankful for it .

Hi GiGi. Just one thought in relation to this 'Gospel' in Hebrews 4:2, "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them...". We do see words, such as Gospel, which is familiar to us that can compel us to believe that the same word must apply elsewhere in the Bible. In recent discussions about the word 'parable', I showed that what we read of Jesus' parables, do not always have the same meaning in the OT (sometimes, but not always); so we need to express care in reading & understanding.

An example in Acts 7:38, "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". Here is a classic example of how a word, with the same spelling can have another meaning (known as 'homonyms'). E.g. in English (current; ring; spring; etc. are such examples). And I understand, the same in Hebrew & Greek (Giannis/Jesse can enlighten us on this). So, if we come to Acts 7:38 with a firm belief that Luke is speaking of the Church we know today as also applying to Moses' day, then we would greatly err. Luke (in v37), was clearly referring to Deuteronomy 18:15, when Moses spoke to the people, but Luke says, "this is he (Moses), that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in mount Sina...". So what is this 'church' comprised of? Can we assume that it must also be the same Church as we have today since 'Israel was saved as well by virtue of Christ's Sacrifice from the Earth's foundation', or, is the 'church' an homonym having another meaning? In Greek, 'ekklesia' is the word for 'church', however, it can also apply to an assembly or gathering of people. And when Luke refers this to the Hebrew rendering, 'qahal', we find that it isn't the Church we know of today, but indeed a 'gathering of God's people, Israel' ( Judges 21:8, 'assembly'; 1 Chronicles 29:1, 'congregation'). So maybe the word 'Gospel' needs similar treatment.

Hi David0921

Greetings in Christ JESUS

You are right.

Again: Isaiah 9:6KJV - 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 you quoted was LITERALLY fulfilled around 2000 years ago because the Word is GOD, and literally materialized in flesh and blood. It's the Power, understand? GOD's Power, well, the Word is GOD, GOD the Father, self-executable, understand? Great mystery.

In fact, The Word is GOD, GOD the Father, the same was made flesh, and the NAME of GOD made flesh is JESUS, the EXPRESS IMAGE of the PERSON of GOD- Hebrews 1:3. Take a look. The Word-GOD the Father-and the Word made flesh-GOD the Son- are One, and without GOD the Son was not made any thing that was made, says the Word, GOD the Father.

The mystery above is very hard to discern and understand, but why? JESUS explains the why: Matthew 11:27- No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, AND HE TO WHOMSOEVER THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM. (It's impossible to know the Person of GOD the Father, except if it be revealed by JESUS, as He said, otherwise is impossible to know GOD.

By the way, John the Baptist, the angel of the Lord, clearly said that "No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." It's it. Hallelujaaa!!!

Page 2.

Then what about Abraham? Abraham was dead & buried, how could he being dead rejoice to see Jesus' Day, this is the Day of Jesus' Coming? This wasn't a situation of (the Genesis) Abraham knowing about Jesus & waiting patiently with joy, for Jesus' Sacrifice & Redemption. This dialogue with the Jews was to show that Abraham was alive in Hades all this time, but NOW rejoicing to see the Messiah finally come (in Jesus' Day) Who would give full atonement to him & all others waiting in hope.

Yes, Abraham, as those many others, 'who looked for a heavenly city', expected it (in faith) & died (in faith), "not having received the promises, but seeing them afar off" ( Hebrews 11:13,16). Their faith/faithfulness to God was vibrant even to this point in their death & confinement in Hades, but until the Atonement was completed at Calvary, they remained in limbo, waiting, in expectation of the promised eternal rest that awaited them, to have Christ's Blood applied to them as well.

Now the Gospel was complete for them (what they once knew imperfectly); the eternal Rest they longed for was now realized in Christ Jesus, in Whose Blood there is Peace with God ( Colossians 1:20) & eternal Rest in Christ ( Hebrews 4:9). GBU.

Page 1.

Thanks GiGi for the things you shared & though much of it I do agree to, as you would expect, the matters of the Gospel's meaning & Abraham's view of Jesus, are points in disagreement here. I won't add to what Giannis has shared with you now, about the Gospel (i.e. its meaning & application to those in both Covenants), or what David0921 & I had already discussed at length concerning it, but to the matter of Abraham (as seen in John 8:56).

John 8:56: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." You believe that Abraham of old "saw into the future and rejoiced to see the work of Christ for Himself and those who believed Godforeseeing the Resurrectionetc". When we read this portion in John 8:52-58, the Jews (the religious leaders), accused Jesus of having a devil for Jesus spoke of those who would never see death (v51), since Abraham, as others, experienced death. Jesus was a liar in their minds. Then they question Him, "whom makest thou thyself?": He answers, 'that He receives the honor of God & thus speaks the Words of God, the God whom they did not know'. If they truly knew the God of Israel & now Jesus, as one greater than Abraham & the prophets, they would have believed Him. Onto Page 2.

Page 2. David0921.

And regards to "faith that saves": since I don't believe that Israel of old were saved people (as we understand it: the salvation granted us through the Cross), the matter of 'their faith & our faith', is not an issue, as they're dissimilar. There are people even today that express love & faith in God, but unless that love & faith are generated by the Holy Spirit undergirded by contrition over their sins, their faith is spurious & of the human kind. Israel's faith was like that: not Holy Spirit generated, human, yet based on being God's chosen people, God loving them & revealing Himself to them, experiencing His blessings beyond measure, & the promise of the coming Messiah.

Yes, God can never overlook sin (whether of Israel or Gentiles), but the need for sacrifices, coupled with faith & obedience by Israel at that time, averted God's Wrath. Therefore, I agree that "the question of the Nature of Salvation itself", as well as the need & importance of understanding the nature of the old sacrificial system, which clearly reveals God's Purposes under these Covenants, is of great importance.

Page 1.

Thanks David0921. We've already discussed Revelation 13:8 & Hebrews chap 4 & we've noted the different ways that we understand those passages. So, I'm not "ignoring or denying the efficacy of Christ's Atonement extending to the foundation of the world", but stating that the Atonement was not applied to those pre-Cross UNTIL the Sacrifice was made. Of course you cannot agree to this because you understand that Revelation 13:8 means that Christ's Death took place (maybe even mystically) before His actual coming to Earth. So this is where we're at.

So yes, 'no one in the OT could ever be saved nor could they ever keep God's Laws perfectly'. And that is why God instituted the sacrificial system, so that His people might still continue to live on Earth & still be accepted by Him, even receive His Forgiveness. If there was no sacrifice to appease & hide God's Wrath for sin & disobedience, then immediate death & consignment to Hell was certain. But they were kept in His Love & Care, looking forward to that glorious Day when the Lamb of God would far surpass any of their feeble temporary sacrifices & make atonement for their sins completely & forever. Hence, the 'holding station' of those righteous ones confined in Hades, pending the completion of the Work of the Cross, to which you also disagree. Onto Page 2.

INTRODUCTION TO 2 PETER (Part 4):

VIII. THE OUTLINE OF THE BOOK OF II PETER:

II PETER CHAPTER 1: The Presentation of the Gospel.

There are three phases that teach us about the gospel message and the Christian life, and we can study those in depth in 2 Peter.

II PETER CHAPTER 2: The Profile of False Teachers.

He gives their characteristics. He tells what they teach, and what they teach about. He tells their motives. And you can tell, even if you don't understand what they're teaching, you can understand by their motives whether they're teaching correctly or not.

II PETER CHAPTER 3: The Priorities of the Believer.

He presents the fact what's going to happen to this earthly realm. It will be destroyed by fire, in spite of what the scoffers say. And so, he says in Chapter 3, what kind of people ought you to be knowing that everything we handle and everything we do in this earthly life is going to burn?

And then he sets the priorities out for the believers, what believers should be involved in as a priority in their life, ending up with 1 Peter 3:18, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I will share the introduction to 1,2 & 3 John soon.

God Bless!!!

INTRODUCTION TO 2 PETER (Part 3):

Peter wrote his second letter also from Rome right before 67 A.D. as he wrote it right before his death. Nero, the Roman Emperor, died around 68 A.D. That's how the scholars get the estimation of the date which it was written because it was written before Nero's death, and after 63 A.D. and his death was imminent, so they believed it was around 67 A.D. that he wrote this second letter.

It is a letter of urgency. Peter knows he's about ready to die. Can you imagine walking with the Lord between 35 and 40 years, being one of the original apostles that the Lord has chosen, having been through all that he had been through with the Lord, and learning how to walk with the Lord, and then realize that his death is within a day or two.

And he wants to put everything he knows, the warnings, and the cautions out to the church before he dies. He wants to leave behind the very essentials of the Christian faith. And that's what 2 Peter is.

V. THE PURPOSE OF THE LETTER:

First Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from the outside world.

Second Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from inside the church, the false teachers, and the false teachings. And we see that in-depth when we get into the letter.

VI. THE THEME OF THE LETTER:

The theme of the letter is persecution and suffering. Peter wrote in order to warn the believing Jews in the DIASPORA that the persecution against the Church is going to intensify.

And so, around the 64 to 65 A.D. time frame, when Paul was put to death, that is when Nero set Rome on fire, and He blamed it on the Christians.

VII. THE STYLE OF WRITING:

When Peter quotes from the Old Testament, he quotes from the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew text. The Septuagint was written in Alexandria, Egypt around 300 B.C.

INTRODUCTION TO 2 PETER (Part 2):

III. TO WHOM IT WAS WRITTEN:

According to Verse 1, Peter wrote his letters to the DIASPORA which is the official title and designation for the Jews who had been displaced from Jerusalem.

This group of the DIASPORA was located just to the East of the Seven Churches of Asia Minor, the Seven Churches of Revelation. The Book of Revelation was written to these seven churches some 30 years after Peter wrote his letters.

IV. DATE OF WRITING:

Peter wrote his first letter around 63 A.D. right before his arrest in Rome. Peter wrote from Rome, but he used the cryptic name Babylon in his first letter in 1 Peter 5:13.

The reason for this was so that if the officials somehow got a hold of the letter, they wouldn't see that there was this much of the work of the Lord going on in Rome, and Peter didn't want any of the Christians in Rome to suffer if they were to get a hold of the letter. So, he used the cryptic name Babylon in making reference to Rome.

According to I Peter 5:12, Silvanus, or Silas, received the dictation of this first letter. The second letter (2 Peter) was written by Peter himself.

So, there is a difference in writing style, not so much in vocabulary as it is in writing style. That's because Silas took the dictation of the first letter, and it was in Silas' writing style. And 2 Peter was written by Peter himself.

INTRODUCTION TO 2 PETER (Part 1):

I. FIRST AND SECOND PETER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT:

First and Second Peter are part of a collection of books in the New Testament called The Jewish Literature. The Jewish Literature begins with the Book of Hebrews and continues through to the end of the Book of Revelation.

All of these books, especially the book of Revelation must be understood from the Tanak, or the Old Testament. If you understand the Tanak, you can understand some of the illustrations and some of the symbols.

There are 404 verses in the book of Revelation, and there are over 800 allusions or quotes to the Tanak or Old Testament. And for us Gentiles who get a little wild in our understanding, the circle things are not flying saucers.

So, if you're into the book of Revelation to find out when the flying saucers are going to land, you'll be disappointed. But these things are taken from the Old Testament and each one is brought out in the book of Revelation.

II. THE AUTHOR:

The Writer of II Peter is Peter as introduced to us in Verse 1. There is more information known about Peter than any other Apostle. (See what I shared on First and Second Peter Introductions for details.)

Andrew was the first to meet Jesus and come to know Him as Messiah as recorded in John 1:35-40. Andrew introduces his brother Simon Peter to Jesus in John 1:41-42

At this time, Jesus tells Simon Peter that in the future he will be called Cephas, which is Peter in Aramaic. Peter means a stone.

Interesting note that Paul died in Rome around 64 A.D. but Peter died in Rome around 66-67 A.D., approximately a year before Caesar Nero himself died. And Peter was put to death right before Caesar Nero died.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 8):

VIII. THE OUTLINE OF THE BOOK OF I PETER:

I PETER 1:1 - 2:10: The Foundation of Salvation.

So, before Peter even talks about suffering, he wants to teach about the various areas that make up the foundation of our salvation, to show that whatever we suffer, or whatever we suffer by way of persecution, it cannot change our salvation at all.

I PETER 2:11 - 3:12: The Submission in Salvation.

If you study Peter's thorough presentation of what submission means in the bible, I think you will find it very interesting. Once a person is saved, they are given the various relationships, both with other believers as well as with the world, and they are to line up with the Lord with each person. And he lists and shows what those relationships should be like.

I PETER 3:13 - 4:6: The Persecution in Salvation.

I PETER 4:7 - 5:9: The Exhortation in Salvation.

I PETER 5:10-11: The Benediction in Salvation.

I PETER 5:12-14: The Conclusion to Salvation.

So, it's all based around salvation, but all of these issues of suffering and persecution, and submission, and function, all of these different things are part of our salvation. It should not be looked at as being separate.

And that seems to be the theme in all of these letters because if you are poor, and suffering, and things are getting worse, you begin to wonder. I mean here in America with all that we have, even we sometimes begin to wonder "Lord, why are you doing this to me?"

That's often our approach to things as if though we have it bad. But we don't, not compared to these believers that we study about in Peter's letters.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 7):

V. THE PURPOSE OF THE LETTER:

First Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from the outside world.

Second Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from inside the church, false teachers, and false teaching.

VI. THE THEME OF THE LETTER:

Persecution and Suffering. Peter wrote in order to warn the believing Jews in the DIASPORA that the persecution against the Church is going to intensify.

VII. THE STYLE OF WRITING:

When Peter quotes from the Old Testament, he quotes from the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew text. The Septuagint was written in Alexandria, Egypt around 300 B.C.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 6):

So, there's going to be one theme, if you can catch the arrangement of the literature in the Jewish section. Remember in the book of Hebrews, it was to Hebrews who were enlightened to the truth, but because of persecution were going to turn back to the old religious system of Judaism.

In James, it was ministry to the poor saints, Jewish believers who were in the DIASPORA, and instructing them about the trying of their faith, that it's normal to suffer for the faith so you grow stronger.

This group of the DIASPORA was located just to the East of the Seven Churches of Asia Minor. The Book of Revelation was written to these seven churches some 30 years after Peter wrote his letters.

IV. DATE OF WRITING:

Peter wrote his first letter around 63 A.D., right before his arrest in Rome. Peter wrote from Rome, but he used the cryptic name Babylon in his letter ( I Peter 5:13).

According to I Peter 5:12, Silvanus received the dictation of the letter.

Peter wrote his second letter right before 67 A.D. as he wrote it right before his death. Nero, the Roman Emperor, died around 68 A.D. Nero had Peter put to death, so obviously Peter had to die before 68 A.D.

Tradition tells us that Nero took Peter as the leader of the believers, spread wax on him, and was going to put him up on a pole because that was Nero's little hobby. He would round up the Christian leaders, wax them down, put them on a pole, and then light them on fire to light his garden at night.

And so, Nero came to Peter and said since you're the leader, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. Since your Savior was crucified, I'm going to crucify you instead. And it's recorded that Peter said I am not worthy to die like my Savior. If you're going to crucify me, crucify me upside down. So, tradition says that Peter was crucified upside down in Nero's Garden.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 5):

You should understand that as Peter is leading in the first part of the book of Acts, at the persecution when the apostles left town in Acts Chapter 7, James (the Lord's half-brother), took over as the head of the church in Jerusalem. So, they actually had a council there that was the head of all ministry in Jerusalem. It wasn't Peter.

Then in Acts Chapter 15, here's where Peter comes, and Paul comes, and the council in Jerusalem gets together and they want to discuss the issue of salvation for the Gentiles. So, Peter is standing in front of the leaders in Jerusalem in Acts Chapter 15 giving testimony concerning the salvation of the Gentiles. After Acts Chapter 15, Peter disappears from the historical records until he writes his letters.

Galatians 2:7 states that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, and Peter was the apostle to the Jews. After a few years, the leader of the church in Jerusalem was James while Paul and Peter traveled.

So, Peter was not there in charge. He was a missionary and traveling, and that's when he came back and reported to the council what he found about the Gentiles being born of the Spirit of God.

Paul died in Rome around 64 A.D. Peter died in Rome around 66-67 A.D.

III. TO WHOM IT WAS WRITTEN:

According to Verse 1, Peter wrote his letters to the DIASPORA, which is the designation for the Jews who had been displaced from Jerusalem. Starting in Acts Chapter 7, there was persecution against the believing Jews. And they all left the city of Jerusalem because of the persecution.

All of these Jews who left because of that reason were called the DIASPORA, which literally means the spreading over, or spreading out. It's a word used for a farmer planting seed as he goes through his field.

Remember, this word is also found in James. James ministered to the 12 tribes of the DIASPORA. Peter also writes to the DIASPORA. As a matter of fact, all the Jewish literature is written to the DIASPORA.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 4):

So, when Peter was called PETROS, or Cephas in Aramaic, and remember in John Chapter 1, Jesus said you will be called Cephas. Well, at this particular time in Matthew 16:18 is when Jesus named him PETROS. It's a spiritual name. It's a rock. But it's not a foundation stone. That's PETRA, and that's Jesus.

Simon Peter, Andrew, and their father were from the village called Bethsaida, on the Northeastern side of the Sea of Galilee. They later moved to Capernaum to continue their fishing business, as recorded in Mark 1:21, and Mark 1:29. The reason for the move was because Capernaum was the Lord's home during much of his public ministry.

Luke 4:38-39 tells us that Peter was married. In this account, Jesus heals Simon Peter's mother-in-law who was sick with a fever. Simon Peter's wife also accompanied him on some of the missionary journeys as told to us in I Corinthians 9:5.

Simon Peter also appears to be the leader of the Apostles. In all four lists of the Apostles in the New Testament, Simon Peter is named first. Matthew 10:2-7; Mark 3:16-19; Luke 6:13-16; Acts 1:13.

In Acts Chapter 2, when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples, Peter was the one who gave the first sermon.

In Acts Chapter 4, Peter is the one answering to the Sanhedrin (the religious council of the Jews). They pulled the disciples in and said you cannot preach the resurrection anymore in the name of Jesus. It was Peter who responded and spoke for the disciples.

In Acts Chapter 5, Peter is the one administering discipline in the Church. So, he's a leader.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 3):

In Matthew 16:18, the text that says, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church," the word "this" is called the Near Demonstrative, meaning Jesus was pointing to Himself.

In the New Testament, Peter (PETROS) is Simon Peter, and Jesus Christ is called PETRA. The church is built upon Christ, not Peter! There is a group that has split off and they believe that this text is saying that Jesus said, "You are Peter, and upon this rock, that Jesus was pointing to Peter and saying upon you, I will build my church." Well, the grammar of the verse, and the usage of the word throughout the New Testament won't even allow it.

The reason I bring this up is that it allows me to introduce something else to you. What a person believes about a text is important. You can say this person teaches this, and another person teaches that, and somebody else teaches something different, but you can't leave it at that. You can't leave it at what a person teaches. You have to also ask why?

For instance, a person can come along and say "Well, Jesus is talking about Peter here. He's not talking about Himself," and then just start talking about something else. And it's like wait a minute, you hold that position, but why do you hold that position from the text? So as a Christian, it's not just a matter of saying so and so teaches this, and so and so teaches that. The question has to be asked "Why do they teach it?"

If somebody comes along and says the two Greek words being used here, one of them means trash can, and the other means pole, then we have a problem because each teacher is using Greek to back up what they're saying it means. So, one of these guys is wrong!

My encouragement to you is not just to take various teachings that people teach, but find out why, especially if you are wondering if it's right or not. They should tell you why from the text or be available to tell you why. You can't just ask what. You have to ask why.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 2):

There are eight Simons in the New Testament. This Simon is designated in the New Testament as Simon Peter.

Peter's father was named Jonas. In Matthew 16:17, Jesus called Peter "Simon Bar-Jona, or Jonas. Bar means "son" in Aramaic and Jonas is Aramaic for John. So, Peter's original name is "Simon son of John."

Peter had a brother named Andrew. Andrew was the first to meet Jesus and come to know Him as Messiah as recorded in John 1:35-40.

Andrew introduces his brother Simon Peter to Jesus in John 1:41-42

At this time, that is, when Peter came to Jesus, Jesus tells Simon Peter that in the future he will be called Cephas, which is Peter in Aramaic. Both Cephas, and PETROS for Peter mean the same thing.

During the Lord's ministry when He was traveling in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus applies the name Peter to Simon as recorded in Matthew 16:18. Jesus said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The name for Peter, when He says thou art Peter, the Greek word is PETROS. The Greek word for "rock," upon this rock, is PETRA. These are two different Greek words.

PETROS means "rock" or pebble. And PETRA means "foundation stone." They are two different things. One is a large foundation stone, and PETROS for Peter is a small stone or a pebble.

The word PETRA also is used for Jesus Christ in the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 10:4 is an example about the rock that followed the Jews in the wilderness, and this rock was Christ. And the word rock is PETRA.

Peter calls the Messiah PETRA in I Peter 2:7.

INTRODUCTION TO 1 PETER (Part 1):

I'd like to spend a little extra time on this introduction because Peter, who wrote 1 & 2 Peter, there's more information about him than any other apostle. There are some interesting things about Peter in the scriptures.

Peter, in all of his quotes from the Old Testament, he quoted the Septuagint. He did not quote the Hebrew. Peter himself grew up and was raised in a Greek village. He knew the Greek language and wrote in the KOINE Greek of the New Testament.

NOW FOR THE INTRODUCTION TO BOTH 1ST AND 2ND PETER:

I. FIRST AND SECOND PETER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT:

First and Second Peter are part of a collection of books in the New Testament called The Jewish Literature. The Jewish Literature begins with the Book of Hebrews and continues through to the end of the Book of Revelation.

II. THE AUTHOR:

The Writer of I & II Peter is Peter, as introduced to us in 1 Peter 1:1. There is more information known about Peter than any other Apostle.

Peter's original name in the Bible is Simon. In Hebrew he is known as Simeon. Simeon and Simon mean the same thing, same person.

Part 2

The whole letter of Hebrews is centered on Jesus, the Son of God, the divine Word, who was incarnated into a human nature and fleshly body unique to Himself to fulfill all that was involved to save humanity from the bondage and condemnation of sin decided from pre-creatin in the Everlasting Covenant within the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The book of Hebrews is all about Jesus, our Savior and we as believers of this one gospel are contrasted to the OT Israelites who did not believe this one gospel that Moses preached to them in the wilderness. It is the same gospel preached to Abraham. The good news that God will save them from their sin and corruption and bring them into an everlasting inheritance in the presence of God forever.

As I said before, we do not know all of what God communicated to the patriarchs, prophets, David, and others concerning this gospel. But Hebrews says that it was preached to Israel in the wilderness, and I believe it is the same gospel we preach and believe. Whereas Hebrews chapter 4 is speaking of the rest of God, this does not equate to the gospel referred to in verse 2 as a gospel of rest-the physical land of Canaan for Israel and the heavenly Jerusalem for us. The result of hearing the gospel of Jesus and believing it is the reception of forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance kept for us in heaven.

Giannis, thank you for explaining your thoughts to me. I do appreciate your input. I just do not concur with your analysis of this verse in Hebrews Chapter 4.

Hello Giannis,

I understand what you were explaining as to the Greek in Heb.4:2

The verse says that "for unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:.."

So if it says gospel, meaning "good news" and "evengelismenoi" as you say is the Greek it makes no difference really. The gospel that was preached to us is the one gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation. We were not preached a gospel of "rest" The verse says that "as unto them". this indicates that the gospel that we heard preached (and received) is the same one they heard salvation will come from the Messiah). This salvation is referred to as a deliverance from sin.

So, if the verse had said that the gospel (good news) of the rest of God was preached to us and the same gospel was preached to the Israelites, then I would agree that this good news is of a rest is the one we and they were to receive by faith. But that is not the normal message of the NT when using the word gospel (good news) (evengelismenoi). The NT uses the word "gospel" specifically to speak of the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the Messiah and Savior for those who believe it's content, which is salvation from sin, not a rest in God. It is true that we receive a rest in God by believing the Gospel of Jesus. The res is the result of hearing the gospel and believing it to be true and for each person that believes it.

I still stick to what I have said in previous posts concerning Heb. 4:2. You nor the others have given me convincing information to change to this view of what is meant by the word gospel in this passage.

While I can see that the word gospel (or evenglismenoi) can be used in ways you stated in everyday usage in Greek, in Scripture, it is normally used for salvation in Christ.

The OT story of the Israelites is for our instruction. Their deliverance from bondage points us to the deliverance from the bondage of sin we receive in Christ. That is what the author of Hebrews is speaking to. see pt. 2

David0921

quoting you;

What you, and others that hold your view, are doing is missing, ignoring, denying (you chose the word) that the EFFICACY of Christ's Atonement extends from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

This is unscriptual, it didn't apply until He actually did it.

quoting you;

"If this were not the case, no one living in the OT could have ever become saved. Why? Because no one can, nor ever has, kept the Law of God perfectly".

Job 1:1 Job 1:8 Job 2:3 Enoch was take up to God, do you really believe God would allow a sinner into heaven? Both of these was before the law, & after the law 1 Kings 11:4 2 Kings 20:3 1Chronicles 29:9 Luke 1:6 Philippians 3:6

What saith thou of thyself?

Friend, your putting your foot in your mouth again!

Ronald,

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Thanks bro dan!

Hi Rugrah,

Great question. This is what Jesus tells us.

John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

GBU

Hi David0921,

Thank you, God, who cannot be tempted of evil, James 1:13 or lie, Titus 1:2. God could not fulfill the law, flesh had to fulfill it because the curse of sin was on flesh. How could you fulfill a law if you were not capable of breaking it? We are told Jesus the Son of God was tempted as we are, Hebrews 4:15. He was made flesh for the suffering of death, Hebrews 2:9.

2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Jesus had a will of his own but was obedient to the Father, Luke 22:42. Jesus did the works of the Father, John 5:36. Jesus was sent by the Father, John 4:34 John 7:16. Jesus did all the miracles by the Spirit of God that was given to Him without measure, Matt. 12:28 John 3:34, when He was anointed at the Jordan, Mark 1:10 Luke 4:18.

I hope this is correct forgive me if I am wrong. The Father is God but is not the Son and is not the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but is not the Father and is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but is not the Father and is not the Son. One God is three coexistent, co-eternal, and co-equal Persons.

If I may ask. If they are three persons, who is the Father of Jesus the Son of God? Matt. 1:18 Luke 1:35. Jesus many times said He has a God and a Father, Matt. 7:21 Matt. 12:50 John 20:17 2 Cor. 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 1 Peter 1:3. Jesus came in His Father's name, John 5:43.

My understanding, this is not a mystery that cannot be understood. God is a Spirit, John 4:24 It is His Spirit that dwelleth in us, 1 Cor. 3:16 1 Corinthians 2:10-12. God is Spirit, God is Holy. It is the Spirit of God that is the Holy Spirit.

Paul never used the Holy Spirit in his salutations. Jesus was begotten by His Father, Heb. 1:5. Jesus said His Father was greater than He John 14:28. Rev. 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

God bless,

RLW

Hello GiGi

Probably I didn't make it clear in my previous post that we may be misled to a wrong conclusion about Hebrews 4:2 and it is not our fault. To put it plainly the translation is wrong here.

Lets do some greek first, it will be useful as far as that verse is concerned. You must be a bit patient to follow me.

The phrase in KJV in Heb 4:2 "the gospel was preached" in grk it is "esmen evengelismenoi". The word "evengelismenoi" comes from the verb "evagelizomai" which is in Engl. "to evangelize". It comes from "Evangelion" (Evangelium in Latin) which means "a good message, good news". From "Ev" which in anc gtk means "good" and "angelia" which means "message" (the word "angel" comes from this word. "Angel" in anc grk means "messenger"). The word Evangelion (good message/news, gospel) today means the gospel of Christ. But that was not the case in ancient times. During Jesus' time it meant any good news, ie a message of a victory in a battle against an enemy was an evangelion(gospel), a message from the Emperor was an evangelion(gospel), even the Emperor's birthday was an evangelion(gospel), any good news actually was an evangelion(gospel).

In that context we must examine that verse. The literal/right translation is "the good message/news they were told". It has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ, and this is how this specific verse is translated in all other English translations which I searched.

So what was the good news for the Hebrews when they went out of Egypt? It was the message of a promised land where they could rest and be protected from their enemies. That is why it says that they didn't have faith in those good news. If we assume that Paul talks about Jesus' gospel, it doesn't make sense. Those Hebrews that went out of Egypt didn't believe Christ's gospel? What that gospel had to do with them, especially at the time of escaping from Egypt?

1 Cor 2:7, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a MYSTERY, even the HIDDEN wisdom, which God ordained ..."