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Part 1
Zechariah ch 11 hinges on the first coming of Christ. It emphasizes the rejection of Christ.
Zechariah 11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
This happened when Israel rejected their Messiah, and the veil was rent from top to bottom. Later the Romans came in and destroyed Jerusalem.
Then came the scattering.
Ezekiel is emphasizing the regathering and Spiritual revival.
As of now they are blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. Paul says "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Also here in Romans 11.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The veil on the heart and blindness Paul is speaking of in these two books.
Verse 16 of the Corinthians passage says "Nevertheless WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, the vail shall be taken away.
When what shall turn to the Lord?
Their "Stony" heart!
This will be done away with when God puts his spirit in them spoken of by Ezekiel and Jeremiah.
Now most agree the Church started and the Jews and Gentiles were put into one body by the Ressurection of Christ.
But here in Romans and Corinthians Paul is speaking of a future event.
See part 2
There are two worlds framed by the word of God. Invisible made to appear which expains faith as the nonverbal mode of communication. So works explain from how what is seen delineates the holiness of God. "A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?" (Mal.1:6-7) Jesus Christ the Word become flesh showed how we ought to worship him. Offering polluted bread is how evangelicals serve God and mammon. Their Christian nationalism testifies against them that they withhold their due reverence (or tithes) Taken together their lives and offerings are merely chaff.
God prepared a body which signalled also the slain Lamb motif that should bring the bodies as a living sacrifice. (Ro.12:1) We are entering into a death in order to be conformed to his life. " Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,/ And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father."(Re.1:6-7). God rested on day Seven after blessing man (Ge.1:28). The four beasts and 24 elders are memorial and set before the throne of God. Symbols of kingship and priesthood the elders wear.
They are seated "clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.". Their priestly service is indicated by golden vials, "full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
In this forum there has been lies spread giving them names which the Spirit has not given and given a status that defile the pure beings as intended by the divine Will. Solomon who went astray his heart being led away by his wives (1 Ki.11:1-5). For this reason let not anyone foist lies over the word of God. This is similar to give names to the Beast. 666 explains it already. Yet like Lucifer such liars say, "I will"
You write, "I take exactly what Ezekiel penned down in Ezekiel 37:16-21/and let verses 18 and 19 do the explaining./16) Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions..."
I suspect all these confusion has arisen out of your own statement. You take exactly from Ezekiel as the last word on Israel as a Nation. Comparing spiritual with spiritual does not mean neglecting what the Spirit has laid out elsewhere and all these passages hold together in the Son and by him consist. (Col.1:15-19) Compare Ez.36/37 with Zec.11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."
Much of the heresies in the present day churches owe to a lack of vision and unwillingness to acknowledge the fullness of God in his Son. Both worlds of the Spirit and the body are to be treated as one. Israel making a homeland by deceit and chicanery in 1948 is not according to the will of God. Ez.3:35-36 What peace are they enjoying?
Israel and the Gentiles are of equal weight. God as the Creator does not play favourites. The birth of Pharez and Zarah shows it. "behold, twins were in her womb./And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first./ And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez./ And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah."(Ge.38:27-30) The scarlet thread shows redemption foreshadowing the Advent of Christ. Phares came out first. Remember the principe. The first shall be last and the last first. "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."(Matt.19:30)
While interpreting passages one golden rule is that principles relating to the Word, Holiness of Godand the Son do not change. two sticks in Ezekiel have another meaning in Ze.11:10 "And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people." Next to it mention of thirty pieces of silver also is equally significanct. it is of the Son we are considering.
I suppose you believe in dispensations and I do not. I believe God had blessed man in our image in his Son. The first seven days are seven bullet points in the everlasting covenant drawn up between God the Father and the Son. God's blessings (Ge.1:26-28) are irrevocable. His calling and gifts do not need any revision. By separating light from darkness in Ge.1:3 there are only two nations children of light and of darkness. The other conclusions of Israel as a nation is hogwash. "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."(Ac.20:32) Jesus Christ is our sanctification. (I Co.1:30). " For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11,10) God blessed Abraham because of his faith and chose him as the heir of promise. "We're talking about Nation!" which is not Israel but those who were foreknown in his Son and obeyed.
"So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?" You read wrongly God chose Israel "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"(Ep.1:4)
Restoration of Israel into their own land after their exiles show the long suffering God whose holiness shall not let Israel escape judgment. Without taking the worlds of the Spirit and of the body God has prepared one is sure to go wrong. The word sent out before the worlds shall not return to him void. History of Israel forms a part but as nation? Null.
To end the discussion, I'm glad you have repeated what I said and listed in my post. i.e. ''GOD did choose 24 men unto which He would reveal His Word-even He Himself-to write the books of the Old Testament, and 'They already are enthroned around GOD's Throne clothed in white raiment and they have on their heads CROWNS of gold. They're already crowned''. Yes, I work with the Word of GOD- Hebrews 4:12-13.
In the other hand, you said me I'm wrong and I do suppositions because I stated who are the 24 elders that are crowned, and you asked: ''is it for writing merely Old Testament?'' Now, now, the OT is NOT mere writings as you say, no, absolutely no, it is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, GOD is Spirit, self-executing, understand? The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, not a MERELY writings as you have posted. Fear GOD.
No, 'I don't also make it sounds mechanical' as you said in your reply, your peculiar verbiage in the second, and third and fourth paragraph only sounds like metal, like mere tinkling bells, nothing more than a comment without form and void. Fear GOD- Matthew 10:28.
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Jesus does all this.
This entire prophecy is about Jesus Christ!
The word flood in Daniel 9:26 means army.
Jesus sent his armies
Matthew 22:7
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
The destruction of Jerusalem was part of Christ's work on the cross.
This is what Daniel is describing in this prophecy."
It's evident today that they are still haven't accepted their Messiah and they're still without a King.
There is two stcks involved and they shall be joined and David shall be king over them. "Some say this will be literally David and others say Jesus" I believe it will be Jesus.
However we know neither is over there today. This is future.
Some say God broke those promises to Abraham because of Israel's disobedience or the promises was fulfilled at the cross.
If God was going to use Abraham to make a nation out of him, Note, (We're not talking about seed or Children, we're talking about Nation!)
The seed is Christ,
The Children is those which are of faith. and The Nation is Israel. "Our topic"
So, If God was going to use Abraham to make a Nation to make his name great amongst the nations and all those promises to Israel in the OT was "spiritually" a promise to the Church, and Israel was chosen to be the model and those promises wasn't for them why didn't God just use any other people like the Ismaelites or any other of Abraham's children descendants if they and the promises were figuratively?
There's promises of punishment if they disobey There is also promises of restoration that had nothing to do with obedience.
God's equity is in him bringing Israel back to their own Land and perform Romans 11:26.
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
God bless
Part 2.
Leviticus 26:32-33 is the condition Israel is in in Ezekiel 37.
Again judgment is much broader than the Babylonian captivity.
Deuteronomy 28:37 "And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among ALL NATIONS whither the LORD shall lead thee.
Deuteronomy 28:64-68.
"And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you"
This dispersion began when Roman destroyed Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
We have a regathering taking place here and we regard that as flesh on the bones but it shows up without the spirit as mentioned. ( Ezekiel 37:8.)
"And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: BUT THERE WAS NO BREATH IN THEM.
This is their current condition.
Verse 12, Is a ressurection of the Nation.
Ezekiel 37:12. "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, ( AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.)
See part 3.
Pt 1
Ezekiel 36:26 reads, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"
You said,
"Israel failed with the Law of Moses and the tradition of their fathers. Only in Christ shall they reach that state"
Israel wasn't able to reach that state under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law wasn't given for that purpose!
Ezekiel and Jeremiah states that God was going to do something NEW!
Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Ezekiel 11:19-20.
Ezekiel 36:26-27.
The Spirit within represents a NEW birth. The Law and the Prophet's taught this
Jesus counseled Nicodemus on this in
John 3:5-10.
Nicodemus was expected to Know this being that he was a Teacher of Israel.
The interpretation of the sticks is in passage. Ezekiel 37:16-21.
The two sticks represent the southern and the Northern Kingdom as mentioned.
Also, they will be gathered from every side and brought back into their own land.
Let's take Ezekiel 36 and Ezekiel 37 and put them in its proper context.
There's mention of a new heart and new spirit.
The dry bones.
The two sticks.
Their gathering.
and their own Land.
Ezekiel is writing during the captivity of Babylon but his writings extends past the captivity on into the latter days as do Daniel and Jeremiah.
Judgment of Israel is of a much broader scope than the Babylonian captivity.
We find that in Deuteronomy 28:37 ,64-68.
It's important to note that this dispersion is global, Not Babylon.
Also the gathering Ezekiel is talking about is global and exceeds Babylon.
This is a second gathering! Isaiah 11:9-12.
Isaiah 43:5-6.
When you read this you'll see that it has never happened.
They still have a heart of stone.
Some look at Israel today and say this must be the Church but "in those days" there is more to consider here than just the New heart concerning this prophecy.
look at the previous verses. Isaiah 11:6-9.
See pt 2.
Glad to have you back with us. I hope your vacation time was relaxing and peaceful.
We are waiting for our 1st grandbaby to arrive any day within the next two weeks. Pretty exciting.
Plus, we are in the middle of an extensive interior remodel. So, we are working around the work and the worker is working around us. The upstairs should be done in a week or two. Then the stairs. After that the downstairs beginning with the kitchen gutting and walls removed to open it up more since it is a galley kitchen. That will be challenging for us, but hoping the weather is fair these next few months so we can cook and eat outside most days.
Even so, despite the topsy turvy of all this, we are so blessed and thankful to God. Jesus is great and He brings us so much divine blessing every day!
Hope to hear more from you soon.
that is the way I see it.
Blessings.
Briefly, my reasons are as follows: this Commandment, alongwith the others, were given to God's people, Israel, for their behavior before God & their fellow-men ( Exodus 20:1-17). The Sabbath was purely a day set apart from all others - a day of complete rest, thus it was a holy (i.e. sanctified, separated) day from the other six days ( Exodus 31:15).
The Sabbath Command never included the necessity to worship God, though it certainly could be used that way in the family home, & then later for functions within the Tabernacle of the Congregation, other sabbath observances, & latterly, in the Synagogue.
The Sabbath Day required that no work be done, even cooking or picking up sticks, moving furniture, lighting a fire, etc. ( Exodus 35:2,3). So the Jewish Sabbath has no correlation to when Christ's Church chooses to worship the Lord today. Some might choose to hold the Sabbath as a day of rest from all work, but for worship, believers in Christ can worship on the first day of the week ( Acts 20:7), or any day of the week for that matter; even as Jesus told the Samaritan woman, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT and in TRUTH: for the Father seeketh such to worship him" ( John 4:23).
It's no longer the day of worship or the place of worship that matters (whether on Mt. Gerizim in Samaria, or even in the temple at Jerusalem, as Jesus told the woman), but that our worship, whether done in private or with a Church congregation, is done in the realm of the Holy Spirit & in Truth. So Naisa, may your heart be comforted that the day of corporate worship doesn't matter to the Lord, but that we worship Him with pure hearts, and in sincerity & Truth. Be blessed.
I will let that pass.
If I had include Enoch in the list of twenty four elders I would be a liar, understand?
Your thinking about me myself according Scriptures is irrelevant, it is from a human perspective, a stumb block, not from GOD's perspective.
Have you never read? My Lord JESUS made it clear, saying: Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath- Matthew 25:29.
Be careful
Don't you know that the saints shall Judge the world? Yeah, the world shall be Judged by the saints. Know you not that the saints shall Judge angels?
Amen, brother, God's plan; for salvation to go to the Gentile's branches had to be broken off to make a way for us to be grafted in, Romans 11:11-33, this may be one of the reasons Jesus spoke in parables. The time may be near but once the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Israel will be grafted back in. God's plan is not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham. Whenever the Gentile's time is fulfilled, we see what comes next Revelation 19:11-21 they welcome and accept their King and the two sticks become one again and the Kingdom set up.
God bless,
RLW
"The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."
Easton's Bible gives us "The heaven of heavens," or "the third heaven" ( Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 2 Corinthians 12:2). Simplest way to make sense of these three heavens is to use the same yardstick St John used in measuring the holy city of God. Angel aspect of the Son is with regards to the everlasting Gospel. So Jesus tells his disciples, "I go to prepare a place, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."( John 14:6). I am the way specifies exactly is Person specific. The risen Christ dies no more. No meaningful discussion we can have without abiding in him. Second aspect is the man component. The Word become flesh means whosoever abides in the Son loves God with "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might./And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart."(De.6:5-6).
"According to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel" New Jerusalem" is scaled so shall the three heavens since all things in heaven on the earth and below are by him consist. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:15-19)
Brightness of his glory(The throne of God and of the Lamb), Gospel as a body (the church) and symbolism of fire water and rock are three heavens. In short Spirit, Body and Soul the Trinity underpin the earth. God gave the earth to the children of men in the Son. God blessed them in his Son. " And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."(Ge.1:26-28) Old Testament and New Testament is a infelicitous way of defining the everlasting Covenant.
I suggested Enoch in an indirect way to make you rethink. If you are sure you work with the word it is well and good. If it is with the word of God neither you or I can guarantee. God looks at motives and not. It seems to me that you cannot see reason so let us stop right away.
As I affirmed in prior post, I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, the Word is from everlasting to everlasting, understand?
And you said to me in your reply, it is 'Well and Good' to work with the Word of GOD as I do. This is the reason by which in the list of the 24 elders that I have posted, Enoch is not one of them. So, I told you Enoch is NOT one of the twenty four elders.
The wisdom of GOD is in mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which He ordained before the world unto the glory of the true believers, as is written in 1Corinthians 2:9-10
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love Him. But GOD hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.
In the other hand, you said you 'work with what you can', and regarding what you have sowed here saying Enoch is one of the 24 elders,it's not true. You are working with devilish LITERATURES of the Jews, you are working with esoteric, kabbalistic and spiritist trash about Enoch spread mainly through Internet by devilish messengers of the father of the Jews- John 8:44.HOW CAN YOU BELEIVE IN THEM?INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
No surprise THE EXISTENCE of devilish lieteratures of Enoch,the esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Jews also invented 10 fictitious names for my GOD Father,and printed them in the Old Testament(Tanack) as:YHWH,Yahweh,Jehovah,HaShem,Adonai, Yehovah,Elohim,Yahusha,YEHshia,YEHvah(fictitious NAMES of GOD or NICKNAMES)that will be burned with everlasting fire from now on.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing. Hebrews 4:12-13. Take a look.
Be careful or else get ready,GOD is a consuming/devouring fire.
Every man's work shall be made manifest:for the Day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Thanks, there is nothing more important than who we have placed our faith.
Hebrews 12:1-2 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God bless,
RLW
It is great to see your name pop up on these pages, How are you doing?
Now let me explain where you have gone wrong in your assumptions. You state the 24 elders are crowned. Is it for writing merely Old Testament?
You make it sounds mechanical. Is the Word cut piecemeal as a Meat packing company packs so many trucks to their retail outlets scattered about. "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;" What holds all these is Jesus Christ the Word become flesh. There is only one testament:The slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. It was not shed half for Israel and the other half for the Gentiles. The slain Lamb in the mind of God in due time was presented before the world as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. Israel rejected him. For those who received him in the times God has reserved the Throne of God and of the Lamb. Without shedding of the blood there is no redemption.
Re.5 tells us one clue: the elders are already in the know who is worthy to receive the book bound with seven seals. "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."(5:5)
second clue: "four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."(5:8) I do not think Hosea (I suppose you were named after him) was playing harp let alone second fiddle as these elder are doing. Prayers of saints they bear as the body God has set as memorial and not to answer them as some apostate churches teach. They are not go between man and God. instead God's surety that He rewards faith of man.
"They already are enthroned around GOD's Throne clothed in white raiment and they have on their heads CROWNS of gold. They're already crowned. In fact, GOD did choose 24 men unto which He would reveal His Word-even He Himself-to write the books of the Old Testament
Re.For out of the HEART proceed false witness, evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, blasphemies:/ These are the things which defile a man:
Have you examined yourself Oases that you bear false witness when you put names on 24 elders the Holy Spirit has chosen to leave unnamed? Whoever adds to the Holy word and seek to esablish his will is the devil. He is the father of lies. shall not go unpunished. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:/ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."(Re.22:18-19)
You deny Enoch from the list and when you say 'absolutely' that it is so you ought to know that only God can claim that honor.
So here in Ecclesiastes, to say that "a wise man's heart is at his right hand", implies that a wise, prudent person will always have his heart direct his thoughts, & then his actions towards his 'right hand' (and this is seen as the place of wise & correct action based on sound knowledge & judgement). Are there any then wise in their actions (i.e. always towards the right), or having hearts that are foolish, going to the opposite place (the left) of risk, speculation, with error & regret following?
Yet, as Christians, we are blessed above all, not relying (or, leaning) only on our own understanding as we fully trust in the LORD, only acknowledging Him in all that we do, and we will know how perfectly He directs our paths ( Proverbs 3:5,6).