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About the Septuagint. It is logical that the evangelists quoted from the Septuagint since there was no other translation available at that time. But by doing so they were actually recomended it. Because one never uses something which they consider as corrupt. And if they do so, still they do not say it to others, because they know that others will do the same.
The Septuagint raised a substantial objection starting from the early age of the church. Some said that in many cases it was an interpretation rather than a translation or it was a paraphrase. Maybe yes, but maybe no.
The Masoretic text is a least a thousand years older than the Septuagint. And often christians accused the Jews that they changed the text to wipe out anything that reveals Christ. I have mentioned that "virgin" or the verse that Paul uses in Hebrews (10:5) to show them a verse for Christ. There is a world difference between the Septuagint "but a body hast thou prepared me" and the Masoretic "mine ears hast thou opened". There is also a world difference between the "and upon the holy place there shall be the abomination of desolation," which Jesus said and the "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate.". Don't you agree on that? So Jesus had some other text in mind than what we know today as the Masoretic? Or is it true that the Jews changed the text to fit their point of view.
About the later verse I quoted Jerom's translation in Vulgate Latin which was done during the 3rd century AD. Jerom did his own translationdirectly from the Hebrew scriptures. But his translation is almost identical to the Septuagint and completely different from the Masoretic. So where is the truth?
see pt 2
Let's talk about works. What is a work? Why do I do a work? Isn't it because I do something because someone askes me for to do? If Noah didn't obey God and constructed that ship would he and his family be saved? No. So doing what God commands leads to salvation. Works reveal faith. They also reveal obedience. If there is no work, then disobedience is evident. So you see the connection between works and faith. Do they save? In a sense yes they do. Think of Abraham, think of Noah, think of Abel, think of Joshua. Suppose Joshua wasn't willing to enter the promise land or if he didn't trust God enough and never entered the promise land. He would had lost his destination. Left out. Suppose Abel didn't sacrifice a lamb and instead he offered a plant. Would he be considered as righteous? No. So don't you see that His work saved him?
Anyway this thing about works and faith causes debate since ancient times.
Luther got it wrong here. Because he couldn't find the connection between works and faith, he rejected Jame's epistle as fake (I have read somewhere). You know christianity wasn't born during Luther's time. It existed for 1500 years before him. Now rejecting all that christian history as useless is out of any logical thinking. Yes many wrong thinks gradually entered the church, but there is a lot of truth and wisdom in the writtings of the so called Fathers and christian theologians living before Luther.
Next we will talk about the Septuagint.
GBU
Yes Jesus' sacrifice gets you out of Egypt (figuratively) and places one in the begining of the path which leads to the promise land. This is the narrow path which leads to Heaven for us the christians. On the way there one must stay on this path otherwise they will end somewhere else but not in Heaven. Different roads lead to diffent destinations. There is only one road that leads to Heaven. This road/path is along Jesus' footprints whose steps are on God's commandements. So obeying God's commandements is actually walking on the right path. There is no way that one is saved when disobeying God's commandements.
Think about it in another way. If one refuses to do God's will (even if they are saved) then they have a sin in their lives, because disobeying God is sin. If one never repents about it, then I am sorry they can not be saved. Remember that parable that Jesus said about entering the marriage meal and found one who was not dressed appropriately for the marriage. What are those clothes? They are the white clothes we are dressed. White means pure, sinless. No man with sin/sins will ever enter the marriage.
There is a world difference (as you say) between not been able to do what is aked from me by God so I cry to God for help and between being negligible or unwilling to do what is commanded. In that latter case God is ot any more on our side. His grace has gone. But still God is our father and works all the time in our heart to bring us back to the right path. But the decision to do what is asked by God and not do it, is on me, not on God. God will try to save me even at the last minute of my life but who can be so silly to risk such a thing. We are talking about the eternal life, not about some earthly things.
So obeying God is very essential for our salvation.
...see pt2
The Spirit is here specific as the world of Noah. The Lord God setting a bow upon the cloud is not merely to lookat but to make man remember where he is place. This world framed by the word of God is but one. Noah having the mind of Christ revers the word of Jesus, "I am the true Vine" and becomes an husbandman. ( Jn 15.1) What is the relation of Shem, Hamand Japheth to Noah? Are they not you and me to God the Father? The word 'husbandman' is placed by the Spirit and is not Bible hermenetics, but the only aim of the Holy Spirit to instruct manin righteousness.
So what was Ham doing? He is setting his own will- worship there instead of looking away in reverence to his holiness. False teachers have been offering polluted offerings in the name of Bh. Are 12 Apostles part of the body of Christ asks one son of perdition? 12 thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel must be set on the earth, another one, equally a son of Belial reasons. Is God and his word are to be trivialised by them? Malachi reminds us of them,"A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?"( Mal. 1.6)
Doctrine of Balaam and ' the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate," is on the same scale of prosperity theology and Christian nationalism of our times.(Rev.2.6,14) Gbosticism, Arianism have survived to which we may call as coming from the depths of Satan so their tower of Babel to reach unto the heavens shall end in fiasco. Our true worship must be as living in tents while God is in his tent. Do we enter therein with the will worship or in reverence, having the mind of Christ?
Shem showed the correct spirit. So Noah blesses him.
Curse on Canaan was from foreknowledge, in him was the mercantile spirit, which we find in our times.
And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:"
In the case of the garden east of Eden it was God who planted it. "And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."(2.8)
Breath of life made Adam a living soul so he knew coming out of his deep sleep where the woman came from. "Bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh then as now works. There is no woman in Noah's case but he does exactly as his Son would have. He set 'I am the true Vine into practice. What are his three sons, Shen, Ham and Japheth three branches.
This world is distinct from the world of Adam as Adam is as distinct from last Adam. God sets a token . " And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." I will look upon it refers to the angel, another mighty angel mentioned in Rev.10.1. Compare the description of the Word which was with God. (He had the little boo, for his credentials. "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire." In the inaugural vision of St John the risen Christ "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters "(Rev.1.15) The Composit picture of last Adam is unmistakable. You identify the Ancient of days in v.14. In short when we put on the mind of Christ faith is pure speech and there is only one language within which holiness of God is the driver, as Japheth did, In v.23 we shall come to it. As Noah is in his tent is god in his throne. Noah became a husbandman in obedience to the true Vine.
Without acknowledging both worlds of the Spirit and our world framed by the word as one what we do is will-worship.
" And the bow shall be in the cloud;"
This is repeated. In v.13 we read,"I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth." The Spirit in many other places repeat where the emphasis on the Father Son relationship. He remembers for instance is referring to the covenant and his Son is the heir of all things. So the world framed by the word of God begins with the world of Noah as against naations rising subsequently. Those who set about to build the tower of Babel for instance. We shall come to that.
"And I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." God remembers so Noah does in obedience to the will of god. Faith is what makes Noah as a double for his Son. This is how we need look at the Covenant which is everlasting. So first four days in the Covenant refer to the Will as expresssed; the three refers to the man called to be a saint shall do. He rests in the God's rest or his obedience is allied to the mind of Christ. We put on the mind of God by faith. " Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus."(Phil.2.5)
v.17 "And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
Token is not the original.This bow which He sets is like specimen, framed so iris scan works at the airports. It is uniques as the voice of the Lord so the sign provided is as good as God is present. It is thus the cloud specified in this case. St John saw this rainbow" and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."(Rev.4.3) and upon 'another angel as significant as another seed, "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:" The Word as a sign.
It has always been thus .
Out of Noah's generation God chose Noah . Out of Noah's generation God chose Abraham .
Out of His generation came Jesus Christ .
When God told Noah to go out into all the world etc they went as far as a place they thought they could stop and build a tower and make a name for themsekves " when Peter got the revelation that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God . The Lord confirmed it was of heaven . But Peter thought he had all the light and when the Lord began to give more light ascto His coming rejection and suffering!Peter could not resolve what he knew with what Jesus said and rejected it and tried to dissuade the Lord from itv. And git a sever rebuke fir doing so.
I thank Almighty God fir Luther and fir all his labours I've heard messages he preached on that showed how he grew in understanding beyond " the just shall live by faith " and have been even now greatly blessed by the message of John 17.
But at some point they went so cars nd no further and each succeeding denomination led by men of God have progressed the church . There won't be any more denominations and there are not any in heaven .
As for thinking because I am not in one that gives me some sort of righteousness . It doesn't . I was BORN again in sn evangelical church in NW London .but that is not my righteousness either though I am very thankful beyond words for that congregation for reasons I can't go into here .
It is not I who is saying " Behold I stand at the doir and knock.."
But it is for me to understand not only how that can be but also believe Him and "consider my ways ".
BeholdI I stand at the door and knock if sny man has ears to hear to them.." is the promise given .
Whioe on the face of it all yiur said was true , it is up to yiu to reconcile what you have said the scriptures say with what thry actually say .
For it is a bit if a quandary how as Christ is in every believer by the Holy Spirit how then is He OUTSIDE knocking on the door?
May I suggest the answer lues in the fact that the gospel has been reduced to being but BORN again .
That the 40 years in the wilderness has been taught and preached as the Christian norm .
When in reality it only took them a little over TWO years to go from Egypt to the promised land but they failed to enter in " because of unbelief ." Heaven is NOT the promised land and Jordan is not death .
The wilderness was meant to be 'boot camp" where sec slaves were to become soldiers .
We have made Christendom almost a holiday camp though not for all .
We have as it were landed on the shores of America for the firs5 time . The beach and weather are perfect the climate wonderful and the teee line full of everything we need and have encamped there . Not realising that behind that tree line is a whole continent waiting to be explored .
The knocking on the door is a call to all to repent but also to " open the door" to Him who is so much more than we have made Him . We are more a kin to the foolish virgins than we are to the wise . For the only difference was that the wise kept their "vessels full " the foolish were misled to believe that to be BORN was enough .
Caine did not seeking to establish his own; righteousness by the " sweat of his brow" .
In so doing he denied Gods righteousness and sought his own glory .
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence if things as yet unseen".
All men have this faith according to what it IS . " Fir God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit withall".
While all men have faith not all have their faith in God . But theur faith still works by what faith IS .
But it is short lived in that " the things that are seen are temporary but the things that are not seen are eternal "
The laws of physics are not seen but people understanding them act accordingly .
But that is the natural mirroring the spiritual .
When we hold the Holy Bible in our hands ( not a version) we hold the eternal Word between our fingers . How is that possible?
The Word is a seed .
When John spoke about the words and deeds of the Lord he said if everything that He said and did was written down the whole world would not be able to contain the books ."
Therefore not everything that Jesus said and did is contained in the gospel of John but he put enough he wrote that " we might know that He was the Christ "
The whole Bible though historically accurate does not contain a comp,eye history nor does it record everything . But it does contain everything that is needed to produce faith and come to know in some measure the God of the Bibke and to know His will and His way .
For a seed is not the tree but it has everything to reproduce the fruit . For a seed has this property it has rverything that is needed and nothing that is not needed to reproduce the fruit.
If yiu add to it or subtract from it you change it . Not that the Word of God can be changed but yiu will be changed for the worse .
You can get a mule by mixing a horse with a donkey but a mule has no life in it to reproduce itself . If then you want another mule you need another horse and donkey . If yiu mix truth with error you will get something but it has no life in it.
If you want people to be saved Salvation needs to be preached .
Deliverance and healing thst must be preached .
Holyness unto God that too must be preached . For the Bride of Christ to "get herself ready " Yiur must preach the nature character and disposition of the Bride .
Some will fall by the wayside . The well trodden path of our own thoughts.
Stone ground etc .
It does not just apply to our salvation .
In fact the gospel of God has been reduced to being only BORN again .
But that is but the ' S' of our Salvation.It is getting out of Egypt only .
Even as the birth of a child is but the beginning. Wonderful though that is
To conclude this exchange, though you said that much is being debated, I don't see these exchanges that way. To me, debating carries with the word a sense of one against another. I see all these exchanges as discussion where at times we commend and agree with what others post on a topic and at times we voice our disagreement explaining why we disagree. I see a big difference between debate and discussion. Both can be rigorous an involve deeply held convictions, but one (discussion) is better suited for a forum like this because we all should approach one another in love, compassion, and a desire to bring clarity to the teachings of Scripture so we can build one another up with increasing understanding of God's revelation to us and of one another.
I am glad you won't do surgery on your knee since you had good results from your work on rehabilitating your other knee when you tore that miniscus. May you heal quickly and learn effective ways to accomplish the healing and have a firm resolve to keep at what works until your knee is strong and healthy once again.
Always good to talk with you.
Part 2
Eden can be a physical type to the true antitype of the New Earth. When Adam and Eve were placed into the Garden which was a physical type to the true antitype of the New Jerusalem) in Eden God had created for them, He walked among them, conversing with them and in intimate fellowship with them. When they sinned, this relationship was lost to them and they could no longer live in the Garden. They did not had it in them to fix this situation. God promised them a Messiah to redeem them and their sinful posterity from the corruption that became real in each of us as a result of the work of Satan in their midst. Jesus was that promised Seed pf Gen. 3:17 at on the cross of His death He completely overturned the work of Satan, triumphing over Satan unequivocally and this victory He bestows upon those He saves.
The New Earth (restored Eden) and New Jerusalem (the perfected Garden where the evil one no longer has access to as he did in Genesis) is the consummation of history, the "teleos" ) (desired end of God's creation, full completion of all of His eternal purposes, and the "better heavenly country" than Eden (or even eretz Ysrael) that is superior to all that the first creation involved before sin came to be. It is the restoration of ALL things promised in Acts 3:21 which is simply the fulfillment of Eph. 1:9-10 where God brings ALL THINGS in heaven and earth together in Christ. This is the reality of the New Jerusalem-the union of all believers with Jesus in Him and He in us. Rev. 21:1-5 refers to this as well.
It is God marrying heaven and earth both physically and spiritually where He brings His very real and superior, heavenly, spiritual kingdom to earth forever where only righteousness dwell. Physical and Spiritual aspects of His entire creation are merged where His will is done on earth as it is in heaven because they are both interpenetrated with each other.
This is what Jesus told us to pray for when He taught the disciples to pray.
Your response makes a lot of sense to me.
My one point, and I may be way off on this, but when we read about the heavenly Jerusalem descending to earth, it is symbolic, not a literal building or physical city. It represents something heavenly coming to earth.
In my understanding, it represents the antitype of the OT temple, which was a type of what was heavenly as it says in Ex. that the earthly temple is made after the pattern in heaven shown to Moses ( Exodus 25-27).
This heavenly antitype, the true reality, is what descends to the New Earth from the New Heaven. It is God's heavenly throne (power, authority, dominion) come to earth in the heavenly New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the Body of Christ in which God dwells eternally. There is no need for a physical temple in the New Jerusalem because the Lord Almighty and the Lamb (Jesus) are the temple whom forever indwells the Church, the Body of Christ, which the New Jerusalem description symbolizes, representing and intimate (as in a bride and bridegroom who become one in marriage), unmediated, direct and eternal relationship of believers with God. Rev. 21:21-22 speaks of this symbolism, with the glory of the God being the eternal light of the New Jerusalem and the Lamb (Jesus) is the lamp, so no sun is needed and there is no night in this realm because it is the kingdom of light without darkness, that is pure, holy, and sinless.
In Rev. 3 the term temple is used as a metaphor the the body of Christ with believers being called pillars and other parts of the temple as if they are physically built into a physical temple, just as Paul says that believers are living stones being built into a temple of God with Jesus being the chief cornerstone, the stone that the builders (Ethnic Israel who built the physical 1st and 2nd temple which was expanded, embellished, and made magnificent by Herod) rejected. The Jews rejected Jesus the foundational element Scripture speaks of throughout. See pt. 2
"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Deuteronomy 7:9
"Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;"
Isaiah 55:7
"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon."
Blessings
Romans 2:13
"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Blessings
There's those in the OT that passed on that is not considered part of the new covenant and is not part of Christ Church.
They were saved by faith but under the old covenant and rituals that pointed to their Messiah's finish work on the cross freeing them from the bondage that held them captive.
The difference between Israel and the rest of the world was that they were heirs of the land, Davidic and Kingdom promises to Abraham.
(Not to be mistaken for the recipient of the promises shown mentioned in Galatians 3:29 referring to Christ.)
However we all should know there's no entering into the presence of God without the door. John 10:9. That goes for all ages.
These specific promises is after the Gathering of the Gentiles into the body of Christ. "The Church" as shown in Acts 15:14-16
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
"AFTER THIS" I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The old testament prophets prophesied about the gather of Israel, (Post Church) and the Davidic Kingdom.
References-
Romans 11:25-26.
Romans 9:25-26 echoing Hosea 2:23.
Isaiah 40:9
Joel 2:3-32.
Isaiah 11:11-12.
The Lord calls Zion(Israel) his people several times in these verses.
..2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity HIS PEOPLE.
In Isaiah 11:11 the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.
This is not the Church but a people and elect of God for the purpose of God!
Blessings Brother!
Timothy 4:10, "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;..."
Jeremiah 179, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Proverbs 4:23, "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."
2 Cor 13:5, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
Mark 14:38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation ..."
GBU
The question is. Why didn't God take the souls of the righteous of the OT in Heaven instead of sending them temporarily in Hades? The answer is that because the Blood of Jesus had not been shed yet. And without His blood nobody goes to Heaven. Why not?
Hebrews 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Any blood? Hebr 10:4, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."
Only Christ's Blood cleans people's sins. Rom 3:25, "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
So we the believers now,"19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;" Hebr 10:19-20.
But that was not the case with the OT Jews. Yes they were righteous in the sense that they obeyed God's commandements at those ages, yes they walked with God, BUT without Jesus' Blood they were in no way without sin. So they didn't have the right to enter the Holy of the Holies which means in the very presence of God. So God left them temporarily in a nice plce to be comforted until Jesus' Blood was shed. And onwards His resurrection He cariried their souls in Heaven under the altar together with all other souls of the righteous waiting for the resurrection of the dead. The latter is a common belief of many christian churches.
A long respont, isn't it? Have a blessed week.
And what is it meant by Heavenly Jerusalem? Rev 21:1-2, "1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
The new Jerusalem is the church, the bride of Christ, the Body of Christ. Are the saints of the OT included in the Bride? Yes we both are fellow citizens.
Hebr 11:16, "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a CITY." This verse refers to the heros of faith before Christ.
2. Where were the souls of the OT saints were going to in the OT era? In the story of the rich man and Lazarus both the wicked and the righteous were going down to earth in a place called by the evangelists as "Hades" (in KJB is written as Hell). This term was also taken from the Septuagint who translated the Hebrew word "sheol" as "Hades", in this way showing that what was meant by Jews of that time with the word Sheol was not the grave but a place down the earth where the souls of the dead were going to.
In that place there were two compartments, one for the wicked who were tortured and one for the righteous who were comforted.
When Jesus was crucified He said to that criminal crucified next to Him who repented that he would be in Paradise with Him soon. Paul in his epistles wishes to go with Christ in heaven after dying. In Rev we see the souls of the slaughtered believers under the altar of the Temple in Heaven. Under the altar means under Jesus' sacrifice . So when Jesus was resurrected from the dead He took all the souls of the saints of the OT, and before that age such as Noah and others, into Heaven.
... see pt 4
Probably because they wanted to discriminate themselves from the Jews. Because in that early era the danger to Christianity was not due to heresies but due to Jewish traditions and oracles that some wanted to adopt into the new faith. We see in the Acts that the Jewish believers could not cut ties with the Law, so that even when Paul went to Jerusalem, James adviced him to pretend that he didn't teach the Jews abroad against the Law (which Paul was actually doing it).
To be honest I would like to know how Jesus called the gathering. Jesus was not speaking in grk but in Aramaic, So He used a specific Jewish or Aramaic word, Maybe the one used in the OT for Israel. We don't know. But the evangelists who wrote the gospels translated it in grk as church. With the word Church it is definately meant the one body of Hebrews and gentiless who believe in Christ. But not the Jews before Him in the OT. The church was formed on Pentecost so it includes people from that time till the end.
Ephesians 2:16, "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"
It says one body. It is the Body of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22,
"19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit"
It says we have become fellow citizens. Of which state? Hebr 12:22, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"
...see pt3
A lot of debate going on lately. So let me say my beliefs one by one.
Firstly my knee is getting better so I think an operation will not be needed. The doctor said that we see how it goes in the future and then we decide what to do. Nevertheless I wouldn't like to go for an operation. Ten years ago I had a similar injury in my left knee. The doctor said that it would be better to go for an operation. But a friend and brother in Christ, an ex-athlete, insisted that I wouldn't do it. Instead He said it would be a lot better to do weight lifting for my legs. I followed his advice and so after a time I was able to jump, run everything. Sometimes now and then I feel it stiff but nothing serious. I hope your problems with your shoulders go better. Let us not forget that we have a God who heals.
1. Now before talking about the church let me say a bit of information from ancient history.
Today when we say "church" we usually mean the building. This is true for the English speaking people but for modern grks too. But in ancient times church (grk ecclesia), the term meant just a congregation, nomatter if it were a religious or a political or an athletic event. The most famous "church" in anc grc was the "Ecclesia of Demus" (freely translated as "Public Congregation") in the ancient city/state of Athens. It was the gathering of all Athenian citizens at a certain place on certain dates to discuss and decide about their city's affairs. So church was any gathering actually.
When the Septuagint (who were Hebrew teachers and rabbis speaking both Hebrew and grk) translated the OT, translated the Hebrew word for congregation as "church" sometimes but some other times as "synagogue", which also means congregation in grk. The Septuagint of course did not have in mind the christian church. They meant just a gathering of Hebrews.
When the early gentile church was formed, the christians prefferd the term church than synagogue to call their congregation.
...see pt2
v.12"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:"
God set the sign of blood in terms of the life of man. It was the Covenant between God and man created in the image of God. Bow God is specific towards His creation. He sets the mercy in terms of the creature. The natural lights served a purpose. "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:/And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth" (1.14-14) This is on the day Three.
"for signs, and for seasons and for days, and years." There were beasts accoustomed to diurnal and noctural foraging. The sun for the former helped man in his daily labour while the beasts of prey hunted by night. "The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God./ The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens./ Man goeth forth unto his work and to his labour until the evening."(Ps.104.22-24)
v.17 "I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth." Between me and the earth is solemnised now so animal sacrifcies wherever prescribed for man in order to approach God involved their death. For example God demands Abraham a sacrifice. and three years old. "Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon./ And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. "(15.9-19) Their sacrifice set a frame of reference to the slain Lamb. The same Covenant, and the natural world by this Cocenant is framed by the word of God.. Noah is the Mediator even as the Son is..
God always leaves a witness, a remnant, a true testimony of Himself ( Acts 14:17)
The Church Jesus built upon the truth that "He was the the Christ, the Son of the Living God" said by Peter by the Spirit of God will never die. It is a "forever" entity being the body of our Lord of which He is the head. It will endure to and through the second coming of Jesus a the end of this age and continue after for all eternity. We are saved unto an eternal existence with the Lord and thus His Church body will forever endure. The Holy Spirit indwells all believers and never departs, so in this way the Spirit will always be in the Church Jesus is building even to this day and will forever inhabit the people Jesus has saved and brought to faith, ingrafting all into the Church.
Your disdain for the Church of Jesus through the ages is out of line with the Spirit of Truth.
There have been tons of godly men over the centuries within the Church that have been given insight into the depths of God's word written in Scriptures.
It is interesting that people today think that such knowing is particular to those of today and especially those who are outside of a denomination, as you seem to say.
But the truth is, God has given gifts to the Church, both those within denominations and without: teachers, pastors, evangelists, etc. This has continued through the centuries, but the apostles were only those who were actually first-hand eye-witnesses to Jesus in His earthly life. The writers of the Scriptures were within the Church Jesus built from the time of the start of His earthly ministry until now. I do not defend any specific denomination, nor condemn to concept.
Every Christian assembly has the responsibility to correctly handle the word of God and preach it forth to the hearers of their congregations. But since the Holy Spirit was given the work of teaching God's truth within the Church through the ages, we should be charitable towards other believers and be able to have a mind-set to learn from others God has gifted by the Spirit of grace.
The Apostles did quote from the Septuagint being written in the Greek that was the common language at the time and also a more precise language that Hebrew or our English. These godly men inspired by the Holy Spirit to use the Septuagint (even though Paul knew Hebrew. There is no way or your to know if the Septuagint, written around the 3rd century B.C. was corrupted, but the Holy Spirit inspired apostles to use it, so He must have approved it for use by the Scripture writes.
Correct. Those saints of the OT believed God that the Messiah would be sent from God.
Thanks for the reply and the Scripture verses. Appreciated.