Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 228

Hi Chris,

I am aware of the TR but that is not a manuscript rather the TR is a collection of MSS compiled and printed as a full edition of the NT.

I am looking for the source of the words "of Christ". I cannot find ANY manuscript or early church Father or early translation that has that phrase. This is why I thought it may be an explanatory inclusion.

Thanks for trying.

Thank you Bro. Dan. I can only deduce that you're assuming that I refer to Christians who sin, having sin's hold on them, as those wanting to 'hang onto their enjoyable worldly lives', even the "death grip hold to this worldly life we enjoy". I'm sorry if you were led to understand that was what I was referring to. Not in the slightest brother. 1 John 2:15.

I was hoping from my examples given earlier, both personal & otherwise, that I was never referring to a 'believer' who has one foot in the world & the other in his faith. I won't reiterate those here as they certainly did not indicate that I (& other true believers) could ever fuse the world's offerings to the holy & separated life we now have in Christ. Maybe James 4:17, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" goes some way to reveal what sin is to me.

I realize that this verse means that when someone knows that he has before him the option to do what is proper, in line with God's Will, yet opts to not do according to the good inclinations of his heart, mind & the Spirit's Voice, then this becomes sin to him. However, I also include that 'doing good' means also doing what is right in the mind & not just at outward action, because sin also finds its secure harbor & breeding ground there.

So, I would refuse to let pride (sin) ever be my companion, but a friend showers me with much undeserved praise & flattery, which obviously would make me feel uncomfortable. Thanking him yet denying such worthiness, I let it go, but the mind continues to reflect on & off on the praise received, producing an undesired, unholy reflection on its veracity. This is not a personal example I share, as I've never ever received such praise, but an example of sin nevertheless. If you were the recipient of such adulation, what would be your response & would your mind ever come back to it for further reflection? To me, this is sin, but it may not be to you or others. I don't know. Blessings.

Hello Scotty. This is not a "mere explanatory inclusion" in the KJV. The inclusion of the words, "of Christ", in the KJV is because the NT manuscript that the KJV was translated from was the Textus Receptus (TR or, the Received Text). Even though it was a much later manuscript than the older ones used in the translation of most of the other versions of the Bible, we understand that it is the more reliable one, as it was not corrupted by the deletions, additions and amendments of the Minority Texts.

The following Bibles have used the TR: the Tyndale Bible, Bishop's Bible, Geneva Bible, & the King James Bible. As well, Young's Literal Translation (1862) also used the TR in his translation work, hence the verse in question there reads, "for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek." And this phrase, "of Christ" is omitted by the other translations, though the meaning & intent of the verse remains the same, as the Apostle Paul could refer to no other Gospel than the one associated to the Savior Jesus Christ & for Whom He was prepared to lay down his life.

Hello Carleton, I was just thinking about you earlier today. How good it is to hear from you.

Most Amish have left off teaching being born again therefore having an assurance of salvation in Jesus Christ. Some conservative Anabaptists have mission posts for trying to bring any longing souls back into the fold. As far as hard working, most folks raised around the agricultural field learn to work, but this does not always bring peace by the Holy Spirit.

"Of Christ" refers to the Cross of Christ, the main subject of the entire Bible, Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. The sacrifice Jesus gave of himself on the Cross is the answer to all: our salvation, our victory, our healing, our everything.

Verleen, This is for the questions asked about the Holy Ghost. I am a messianic believer of Jesus {Yashua is his real name, Ya=God. Shua=Salvation} I pray I can clarify some of your doubts.

1.{ John 3:16} God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believed on him shall not perish but have everlasting life, this is Jesus who was, and still is the savior of mankind, he came to teach us on how we can have everlasting life. he gave us the example that we should be baptized as he was. The Holy Spirit descended upon him and abode in him, { Luke 4:1}, {Mathew 3:16} this was necessary for him to begin his ministry to the people of Israel. It was through the Holy spirit that he performed the miracles mentioned in the Bible. { Mark 5:41} and by whom he taught with authority.

2. The New Testament Church became to being through the four Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four were witnesses, of Jesus's Divine teachings. Jesus, he told them he will send his Holy Spirit, { John 14:26}, { Acts 2:4}, { Acts 4:31}

Here again, the Holy Spirit enabled them to perform miracles and teach others {also the Gentiles} about the Kingdom of God. { Acts 10:19}

3. There are true Believers who worship God, in truth and in the Spirit, for God is a Spirit so we must worship in the Spirit. This of course is after believing that God sent his Son, as the word says, that whoever believes in Jesus as our Savior must be Baptized in his real name, as the Hebrew Bible instructs us, his name is "Yashua" He is a newborn person, therefore, this born-again person will also receive the Holy Spirit. {Psalm32:8}, { John 16:13}, { john 3:5}. I hope that these verses from the Bible, will help you understand the Importance the Holy Spirit has had in the life of Jesus in his teachings, the New Testament brought about by the four gospels of the Apostles, and to our very own lives today. This is a wonderful promise given to us who believe in the Savior, { Numbers 23;19} God Bless you.

Hello Moha4med.

You write that Jesus is; "a normal creature and not God".

What is the source of this data? It is not the Bible.

Whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not "a normal creature".

And whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, Immanuel, the Word made flesh, God, and the Son of God. It is simply a FACT that the Bible teaches this.

See these references: Mat 16:16, Mat 1:23, Isa 7:14, Joh 1:1, Joh 1:14, Mat 8:29, Mk 3:11, 2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10, Rev 6:16.

Your noetic challenge is to work out HOW a divine person can be incarnate, suffer on a cross, die and is rise from the dead.

It may delight you to also work out the ontological limitations of a true human nature even when united to an unlimited divine person.

Only once you gather all the data from the reliable sources and understand the full picture all the pieces will fit together. Then, and then only, will you understand the COMPLEX PERSON of Jesus Christ in the Bible is a spectacular sight.

As one Latin writing theologian put it; CUR DEUS ET HOMO.

Enjoy the journey and protect your happiness.

Fear of God

And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28)."

And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. ( Joshua 2:11).

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10). Continuing with some ideas from my previous post; it seems that when it comes to supposed testimonies of hell; the fear of the Lord and a sense of it being His wrath as a great part of the terror is lost in accounts of suffering. The same thing makes us even more suspect with those testimonies about heaven; even Moses who knew God unlike any other man at the time ( Exodus 33:11) and spoke to Him as a friend still had fear when He appeared in all His glory ( Deut. 9:19). WE ALL SHOULD TAKE THIS ADMONITION SERIOUSLY as to fear and AWE of Him no matter how long we have been believers (sorry but I felt caps were needed here).

The assurance of salvation and the evident blessings being present on someone brings meaning to the first quote from Philippians; and the fact that we will return with Him ( Rev. 19:14) will strike fear in those whose eyes are now opened;

along with the fear of judgment to come.

The concept of our enemies also needs to be addressed along with our own enmity toward God that we now have reconciled.

Romans 11:28 shows how the unbeliving Jews were enemies in one sense; yet Paul wished that he himself could be accursed to save them ( Romans 9:3). We are to love our enemies; but not fraternize to gain reputation as the world does; for what is honorable among men is an abomination to God ( Luke 16:15 also could be "highly esteemed"). We should have no part fellowshipping with those who preach a false Gospel; and in no uncertain terms testify to the peril the unsaved is in apart from repentance.

Hello One eighty,

I recently joined this discussion board and am therefore unfamiliar with those who have been here much longer.

I see scripture passages and verses as being similar to jigsaw puzzle pieces that God expects each of us to understand and appropriately place together throughout our lifetime, so as to be able to SEE the kingdom of God as one might view a beautiful picture.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, HE CANNOT SEE the kingdom of God." ( John 3:3)

SEEING God's kingdom is vital, as this act defines whether Salvation is ultimately achievable or not - John 3:5-8.

I have been on numerous Bible discussion boards seeking to partake in some "strong, Bible-based meat" ( Hebrews 5:14) in which to 'chew' on, so that similarly-minded Christians could also share what they had each discovered - so that collectively, we might each piece together what the Lord had revealed to each of us. Sadly, I have been unable to find any such discussions.

Therefore, when your questions deviated into impossible areas that could never be responded to in scripture, I felt the response I provided was necessary.

So - no offence was intended One eighty. I guess that sometimes incidents like this need to happen so that we can each learn a little bit more about each other and why we are here.

Blessings, One eighty.

Alan

Isn't it John 11:35? "Jesus wept."

Some helpful points there.

However, how can people be alienated from His presence before coming to faith if God is omnipresent?

Perhaps you mean alienated from God's favour.

I have a question about Romans 1:16.

Can someone tell me the source of the words "of Christ"? Is this a mere explanatory inclusion?

Thank you for any help you can give.

Common issues with online testimonies.

The last posting discusses repentance. John 16:8 is a theme I have repeated several times in regard to sin; righteousness and judgment to come being the primary purpose of the Holy Spirit today. In many testimonies there is little emphasis on sin that

someone is saved from; especially a grasp of the sin NATURE. God's love is usually described in some detail; but any concept of a foreign righteousness that we experience (such as with Daniel; Isaiah and John the Revelator when they encountered the risen Christ; or Paul's Damascus Road experience in Acts 9 which brings us flat on our faces is often lacking.

We see these issues especially with the heaven and hell encounters that are described (whether real or fallacious). Trying to

sort out fact from fiction is too involved to have a detailed analysis in this posting. In these type of testimonies especially; but also in many others we see the concept of "losing one's salvation" as a common theme. A general warning here in such a mindset is discarding clear scriptures on the subject as well as taking hope away for those who truly love Christ by causing them to live in constant fear that a particular sin can make them be lost. This needs to be balanced with those who are too confident that they are saved who haven't tested themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).

It is understandable with a number of young people especially who had an initial faith in God or exposure to the Gospel who repent as a Prodigal son after a time of rebellion may see how the love of Christ was a constant thing in their lives in the background. What we don't see is too many people who clearly understand that we are enemies of God; and alienated from His presence before coming to faith ( Romans 5:10 etal).

And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28).

Amen Jesse,

God bless,

RLW

National repentance vs. individual repentance

Nineveh and Babylon appear to be two nations that had a wholesale turn toward God; initiated in both cases by the rulers at hand.

Sackcloth and ashes were worn by the King in the first example; along with a mandatory fast. In the second case; it appears that

Nebuchadnezzar may have recognized God's power in his declaration of Daniel 3:29; as to not saying anything against God; but his own personal understanding appears to have come later as predicted in Daniel 4:25. In our nation revivals in the 1700s seemed to eclipse even George Washington's noteriety with individuals like Whitfield and similar things happened in Europe with the Wesleyan revival.

In both cases from scripture we see the ruler being warned about sin; with Jonah it was just a general declaration of judgment to come; with Nebuchadnezzar a direct plea from Daniel in Daniel 4:27 to turn from sin was given. I believe the same thing

happened with a challenge to a President in our country in the 1800s; maybe someone has that information here.

Proverbs 14:34 explains how sin is a reproach to any nation; which is contrasted by righteousness exalting a nation in the first part of the verse. Truly a nation is made up of individuals; hance as someone comes to faith it may change the balance to

forestall judgment for a time. As with nations; individuals also can extend their lives ( 2 Kings 20:6); and the wicked as a

principle will not live out half their days ( Psalm 55:23). Nahum shows how judgment was only forestalled and delayed not averted; and we can read the rest of Jeremiah to see how Babylon fared; with an end time parallel in Revelation 18.

As we see from the above examples; righteous leadership can bring benefits to all; even if not all individuals are actually saved.

The same principle applies with the wheat and the tares in churches. Some only secretly desire worldly comforts or prestige who surround themselves around repentant saints.

WEM,

1 Timothy 5:13 reads, " And with this they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers, (and that's literally the word gossipers). And busybodies, speaking things that they ought not."



So he says these people you have to refuse because they don't have much to do, and if the church takes care of them, they're going to have a lot of idle time, and they're going to be going from house to house getting involved in conversations and gossip, and slander, and saying things against people that they shouldn't say.

Blessings!

Is gossiping about others a Sin?

Hi Chris,

Regarding the subject: "Our Addiction to Sin"

You state: "Do you really think that you will reach that perfection in this life? " Chris, I have faith in God that He would not tell us to do something that we can't do. John 5:14 John 8:11 Nothing is impossible for God! He can change us in the twinkling of an eye! If this is our goal he can help us accomplish it, but it requires Faith and never giving up!

You state: "And what happens in the meantime, when what he believes is possible, actually is impossible - sin ever revealing itself without abating? " I would answer by saying that if you think that it's impossible, and you CAN'T do it, then it will probably never happen for you, until you exchange Can't do - for Can do. Also speaking for myself, for me to say it can't happen is to call God a liar, because he tells us we can James 4:7-10 So, it must be something we are doing, or not doing.

You state: "You may have a different take on this, but I see that as with Paul, so also with us, the struggle with sin will never cease." I agree that Paul struggled against sin during his life, as all of us do, and Paul also states Romans 6:6-7 God tells us he will give us no temptation/sin that we can't overcome 1 Corinthians 10:13

A ever increasing thought: One major obstacle in our lives that may be keeping us from achieving the perfect relationship with God is our death grip hold to this worldly life we enjoy.

See page 2

Chris, Page 2

2 Corinthians 5:15

"And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

Are we living unto ourselves by wanting to enjoy this worldly life and all those things associated with it? As of late, I'm beginning to believe that this is a very big obstacle preventing us (Christians) from achieving the perfect union with Him/God.

I've thought like other Christians for years that we could live a enjoyable life on this earth and walk with God at the same time. The more I read and believe the scriptures I am beginning to believe I am wrong. God is telling us he want's us completely.

Letting go of this fleshy world is a big hurdle, maybe too big for most of us. Hence, our need to find a compromise in our minds to mold/reinterpret the scripture to achieve a message that will accommodate us hanging on to our enjoyable worldly lives. Are we fooling ourselves?

Could this be a large part of why we haven't be able to achieve our perfect walk with God and become sin free? The overriding Bible message is we can't have the world and God - it's one or the other.

GBU

Hi Earl.

They made changes a little while back.

I remember I also had to re-register.

I had to post under my first name.

"Steven"

It had something to do with having to sign in.

God bless.

Hi Earl.

Hi Shell, if I may..As GiGi replied, so many translations up to the KJV publishing in 1611 were not always written by council/competent authority so as King, King James appointed competent council giving them the authority to conclude one book, the KJB version(ONLY according to original documents, which there are thousand upon thousands of) & still has not changed. I have a 1698 copy that is 'Jot per Tittle' the same as my KJV from last yr.

As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.

As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.

As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".

Blessings GiGi,

Good to hear from you again also. Thank you for your thoughts.

Last time we conversed, you asked me some questions I did not answer. I have not forgotten. As you probably realize, I'm a bit sporadic. A lot going on, so even when I feel encouraged to write, I sometimes won't, because I feel as I will become too busy

or tired to follow up.

I always enjoy having a discussion with you. You definitely give me things to seriously ponder.



Briefly, in response to your recent post to me: I consider "withdrawing" as a form of limiting. I don't think the Holy Spirit ever limits His giving. Simply, we limit our receiving.

Peace be with you

Blessings Alan Manson,

Again, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I believe that the search for truth is but the honest searching out of what interferes with truth, and that truth must be true throughout if it be true. It cannot contradict itself, nor be in some parts uncertain and others sure.

I also believe everyone on this site, with very few exceptions, genuinely desires to understand truth and draw nearer to God. Perhaps I come off contentious , and seemingly ask foolish questions. One may consider being careful though, not to use Titus 3:9 as a tool to possibly make people seem or feel foolish because of their questions which one may have mistakenly judged as contentious. How can one be certain this is not an opportunity provided by the Holy Spirit to lovingly lead another towards God's perfect love and healing.

I've been reading and contemplating the Bible off and on for well over fifty years, and yet I still reluctantly find myself perceiving conflict within it. I've spent too many years in church and in fear of asking these questions I would like solid answers to. I would like nothing more than to have the Bible make perfect sense to me. If you or anyone doesn't want to, or CAN"T convincingly answer my seemingly foolish questions and/or comments within what I would consider a simple dialogue, I'm ok with it.

For the majority of my life I have consistently genuinely asked the Holy Spirit for truth according to the One and Only God of Perfect Love. I don't see myself as special in this sense, as I'm certain most of us here desire and ask this in their own way.

God Is

Peace

I don't believe, Rhonda, that I've ever seen a page here that provides questions relating to a verse for study. The closest I've seen is when a verse is clicked on & then at the bottom of that page, there are options for 'Other translations for that verse; a couple of Bible commentaries; and our community discussions maybe relating to the verse in question (though that is not always the case)'. You may want to look at the 'discussion' option to see how different people have understood & given teaching on a particular verse.

Maybe what you're thinking of is like a study book (as one could use in a Sunday School class) where both the study narrative & questions to ponder & discuss are given at the end. Just a quick look around on the Web, I found 'Bible Study Lessons' gives studies (or passages to read) & then sets of questions to the Bible book chapter; but like everything, always make sure that the Site is one that stays faithful to God's Word.

To Plaintalk, I say this in response.

You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:

Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"

Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.

In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:

- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-

- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).

However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).

That's how I see it, Plaintalk.

Thanks Bro Dan for your advice,

I will take it with pleasure. It is a very good advice.

Blessings.

Earl, have you contacted the admin (see links at bottom of home page) and asked the reason for this? I hope you find out why and that it can be resolved.

Pt 2, Frankie.

Let me give you an example. If you have a car that goes top speed 100 miles per hour and you put your foot on the pedal expecting to go 150 and you keep pressing your foot on the pedal, the only thing you will get at the end is to burn the engine, it will never go 150. We have limits all of us. Yes we must lengthen our limits/broaden our hearts but they will always exist.

Yes God has made us partakers of His Spirit. Which means that He gave us a means to grow spiritually and produce a fruit in our lives. But that Spirit has not transformed our nature. We are still human. Have you ever thought why we will be sinless in Heaven? We don't know really, do we?. Some say because of the new body we will be given. But satan has got no flesh but he still sinned and is still sinning although his is a spirit. So the sin does not only originate from the flesh, but it originates from our spirit as well.

My assumption is that we will be sinless because we will have God's Spirit with no measure, like Jesus had it. The presence of God inside us will be infinite and will not allow any sin coming inside us. But in this life we have the Spirit partially. (Well this is just thoughts, we don't really know). If God wanted to make us perfect in this life, He would had done it in a split second, But He didn't and He will not. We have to wait untill we enter our heavenly country.

Well some thoughts of mine. Blessings.

James 5:16, "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

1 Timothy 6:12, "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."