Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 293

(Part 2):

Jimbob,

Why would the 12 be hated? Because they preached Christ. Jesus knew ahead of time what their fate would be. They would be persecuted, tortured, and except for Judas who killed himself, they would die horrible deaths. They would suffer martyrdom. Did they endure to the end? Yes, they never wavered in their faith, all the way to their death. They endured to the end of their lives, and it would be safe to believe they were saved. But Jesus was not speaking to the church telling them they must endure the 7-year tribulation period, and if they endured, they would be saved.



This is the same thing we see in Matthew 24:13, and Mark 13:13. We have to take these verses in context of who Jesus is actually speaking to. He wasn't speaking to the church. The church was not in existence yet. In Matthew Chapter 24, and Mark Chapter 13, Jesus is speaking to the Jews (Jewish believers).

I am looking at the other verses you gave. The first being 2 Timothy 2:11-12. That needs to be taken along with Verses 7-14 where Paul is giving Timothy instruction for service. Paul is confined, and in Verse 9, he says he suffers trouble (because of the gospel). He suffered in prison, was put in chains, and beaten. But in 2 Timothy 2:10, Paul says, "therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes.

The word endure here is HUPOMENO which means to remain under. Paul says I remain under all of my difficult circumstances because I can be bound, but the gospel can't. Therefore, I endure all these things. He says I preach the gospel wherever I am enduring the hardships, so that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Paul endured through tribulation/trials.

Hi Jimbob,

Sorry for the late reply. I have not had a chance to be on here for a couple days. I just read your address to myself and brother Chris. This might be a little long, so I apologize ahead of time. I will begin this as (Part 1):

I had previously asked you if you were referring to the word HUPOMENO because #5278 in the Strong's Concordance is the word HUPOMENO. However, both the Textus Receptus and the Greek Interlinear use show it as HUPOMEINAS, not HUPOMENO. Those words are closely related but when properly used, they convey different meanings. I don't know why Strong's says HUPONEO when the Greek text actually uses HUPOMEINAS. If you own a Greek Interlinear Bible, you will see the correct usage.

HUPOMEINAS is used in three places in the NT ( Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, and Mark 13:13). It is #5278 in the Strong's Concordance, but the word is HUPOMEINAS, not what's listed in the Strong's. This word (HUPOMEINAS) describes a person who is saved. A saved person (will) endure to the end. Some take these verses and try and tie them into the end-time tribulation period, and they say that the church will go through this and the ones who shall endure to the end, they will be saved. They say that you have to endure to the end of the tribulation. But that is not the proper context of these scriptures.



In Matthew 10:22, Jesus is speaking to His 12 Apostles. This is the training of the 12 which is outlined for us in Verses 16-42. Jesus is not speaking about people enduring through the end time tribulation. In Verse 22, Jesus says, "And ye (the twelve) shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." He's speaking to the 12.

Did Jesus eat the Passover? Tradition or scripture? Does it matter? For study not to offend.

Passover Day when the lambs were killed is the 14th of Abib/Nisan. Exodus 12:3-33 Leviticus 23:5 Numbers 33:1-3 Mark 14:12 Luke 22:7

The 15th of Abib/Nisan is the first day of the 7-day Unleavened Bread Feast, first day and the last day are Sabbath days, it starts at sundown and is when they ate the Passover and after midnight they left Egypt. Numbers 33:1-3 Deuteronomy 16:1-8

From the Last Supper to the burial, Matt. 26:17-75 Matt. 27:1-61 Mark 14:12-72 Mark 15:1-47 Luke 22:1-71 Luke 23:1-56 John 13:1-38 through John 19:1-42.

This day started at sunset. On this day we have Jesus and his disciples going into the guest chamber, they ate a meal, Jesus initiated the New Covenant, they sang songs, Jesus washed their feet, and they were there for hours. They went to Gethsemane where Jesus prayed, Judas came with the priests and a band of men and officers,

They took Jesus to Annias and Caiaphas and was judged. Then early that morning they took Him to Pilate and Herod and back and they said crucify Him. They nailed Jesus to the cross the 3rd hour, 9 AM, Jesus died at the 9th hour, 3 PM, and was put in the tomb, all this in one day, before the sunset, the 14th of Abib/Nisan Passover day.

In Luke 22:14-16 Jesus told them He was not going to eat this Passover with them. In John 18:28 they would not go in the hall, they would be defiled because they have not eaten the Passover, and later that day they had to catch the blood and put it on the altar.

The Passover meal was eaten after sunset and before midnight, the 15th of Abib/Nisan, Jesus was in the tomb.

Jesus was the Passover Lamb and the First and the Last. He was nailed to the cross at the same time the first Tamid Lamb was sacrificed, all the sin sacrifices were put on top and He died at the same time the last Tamid Lamb was sacrificed and put on top.

Hopefully, this is enough to study.

God bless,

RLW

What do people mean that NT gospel teachings aren't so necessary to follow? That they're a wrongdoer period? Following them could be essential to our faith. They're the fruit of the indwelling spirit, but it's not about turning from sins.

Anyone who believes we must turn from OT sins as evidence of faith would mean they don't need to follow NT Gospel teachings much.

OT sins are completely covered, but the Gospel teachings are not that covered. NT Gospel teachings are what make faith evident in a person.

It says if we don't obey his commands the truth is not in you. It must mean those commands - the Gospel teachings - to love thy neighbor as thy self.

I hope you agree.

Thanks and I agree with what you on It's Christ who is our gift.

However I was commenting on your "unique display" or style, not theology. Your display is familiar.

I've been away for a couple of weeks.

If my memory serve me correctly there used to be a Donna Stephen's a few years ago that visited the site briefly but I don't believe that's you.

Let me ask you; Are you saying salvation is universal whether one accepts that gift or not?

I think I get what you are saying . Adams wife came from his rib and Christ was wounded in his rib cage for us , John Ch 19 verse 34 and 1st John Ch 5 verse 5-8 . The first Adam and the last , both got there wives from their own body .

Brother SSpencer:

I read your comments; I know you believe salvation is a gift of God, by the grace and mercy of God.

If it's a gift; then all the WORKS have to be the works of God, otherwise man would contribute to salvation.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it IS GIVE (gifted) in the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE on him (the WORD) ...

Our believing is the work of God, we don't even contribute that to our salvation.

We were resurrected with the FAITH of Christ, a gift, not our doings.

God bless your, my brother in Christ.

if a husband likes to dress as a infant.does the bible allow her to file for divorce?

A very unique display of theology you have there Donna Stephens.

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Amen to that Pierre 1939 .

Today is the day that most Christians celebrate the last supper of Jesus and His disciples. It is a Passover supper from what I can tell.

I participated in a Passover meal at a church I visited. It was very interesting to learn how the Passover was celebrated and its meaning in light of Christ's fulfillment.

I don't think that I would make this a habit in my life, but it was a helpful and edifying occasion for me to at least do once. Perhaps I'll get the opportunity to do so again, as long as it is celebrated by Christians and the significance of each aspect is explained in light of Christ's fulfillment.

We can do so as an option, but I believe we are not to practice the OT rites as an obligation because Christ's work not only fulfilled the OT Mosaic system, but also put it away forever, since it was a shadow and a tydpe pointing to the reality of Christ, His person and His salvific work.

The book of Hebrews is a good read concerning how Jesus fulfilled the OT Mosaic covenant completely and faithfully. No one else can do so. That is why we need a Savior.

So, recall how poignant this last supper must have been for Jesus and then later for His disciples after He was crucified, dead, resurrected, and ascended as they recalled the supper and all that followed whenever they together partook of the Lord's Supper. The disciples of all people knew the significance of the Passover meal and its meaning and then understood even more so the OT ordinance in light of what Jesus did to fulfill this ordinance in the shedding of His blood and the way God passes over our sins because we died with Christ and rose with Him spiritually speaking.

How precious is our Passover Lamb , slain for us, for the forgiveness of sins, and the redemption from the kingdom of darrkness into the kingdom of light, and for the deliverance from evil and the evil one.

Agreed Cindy, I don't think there is a Scripture where we are instructed to address Satan, but only to resist Him as Jesus did int he wilderness. Eve should have done that, too, along with Adam. But we know so much more that they did about good and evil before they sinned.

But maybe what Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan. So we maybe we can say, "Get thee behind Jesus, Satan. Since Jesus has power of Satan. And to quote Scripture when we sense that Satan or one of his fallen ones are speaking to us or harassing us or tempting us.

Most of the time, what is bothering us is our own sinfulness, and we need to also recognize that we draw ourselves into sinful situations or temptations. As God's redeemed children, we do have protection from the devil and his desire to harm us both physically and spiritually. We can remind ourselves of this and know that God is willing and ready to protect us when we repent and turn to Him for help and forgiveness and protection from sin and wickedness around us.

Alex, I believe that the kingdom we inherit is the new heavens and the new earth, not one on this earth, the New Jerusalem. But blessings to you, Alex. I will not involve myself in a discussion on this matter further at this time. Instead I will read the

Scriptures you give me and also investigate further what the Scripture say about the inheritance of the saints-the kingdom of God.

Dear Alysasamaksm,

Jesus instructed His disciples to make disciples of all nations (through the gospel) and to baptize these disciple in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and for them to teach these disciples all that He commanded of them. Matt. 28:19.

Alyssa,we are to believe the truth about Jesus for salvation, which is the gospel message of His sinless life to fulfill all the requirements of the laws for us, His physical suffering and death on the cross to satisfy the offense of our sins to God and bring forgiveness of sins, and His bodily resurrection, that brings to us justification before God and the guarantee that we will be resurrected bodily and be glorified at His second coming. We are to believe that He is God in the flesh, the eternal Son of the Father who, though God and Spirit, became man while keeping all His divinity, to be our Saviour according to the promises made throughout the Old Testament.

Alyssa, these are the basic beliefs for one to believe for salvation. We are to believe that our salvation lies solely in Jesus and we receive this salvation by faith through grace upon receiving the truth of the gospel. Water baptism is a command of Jesus26:20for those who come to faith in Him. ( Matt. 28:19)

Peter preached as such in His sermon at Pentecost. ( Acts 2:28) and again in Acts 3:19. Paul preached as such in Acts 17:30 and 20:21 and 26:20. Preaching repentance and turning to God in faith in Jesus through the gospel message. The practice of those who believed was to be baptized following conversion.

So, while it is not absolutely necessary for salvation for one to be baptized, Jesus did command believers to be baptized, just as He commanded people to believe in Hm to be saved. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward spirtual cleansing and of being crucified with Christ and buried (thus the waters of baptism) and raised with Christ (thus the coming out of the waters of baptism) and seated with Him in the heaven.

GiGi Gbu but you need to read a bit in Rev.11:15...The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our lord and his Christ....And he shall reign for ever and ever....The kingdoms of this world is implying right here on this earth...Which is beautiful for situation as DAVID said...Nothin more beautiful then Christ in us sinners right here on this earth.

...... Psalms 48:2 beautiful for situation the joy of this whole earth...And as Jesus said the Kingdom is gonna be with in you...Abide in me and in you ...GBU G....He is gonna reign for ever and ever right here on this earth...seed time and harvest forever...

When we read about the sower and his precious seed as in matthew 13...We should keep in mind that great Promise in Gen.26.4...When God made that Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven and Gal, 3:16...Now unto Abraham and his seed were the promises made but he said not unto seeds plural (natural Israel ) but unto 1 seed which is Christ....Thus its Christ that is gonna be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thus the sower and his precious seed the words of that book the New Covenant that Jesus wrote with his own blood....But his offspring are not flesh and blood Children....But spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit...Which is the H.G. a spiritual Child...The Children of Promise..An Israel of God... Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me... Romans 9 :8... Flesh and blood are not the Children of God its only the Children of Promise that are counted for that good seed which is the living words which are the seeds of the sower the living words of God....The contents of that book in the fathers right hand that Jesus wrote with his own blood...Thats y Jesus was saying take heed that you despise not one of these lil ones....The babes and sucklings are his Children that can worship God with a perfect Praise....That are Gonna be born in us via his seed...In heaven their angels do always behold the face of my father....That new born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word is a baby Christ that is gonna be born in us...The Children of PROMISE....But the spirit of truth that is gona be born in us cannot speak for while...He is just an infant spirit....Our 1st born, our only son....The tongues they heard at Pentecost was the babes and sucklings crying out in the spirit....That New born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word..is The H.G. a living heavenly being born in them...As we have borne the image of the earthly we must also bear/birth the image of the heavenly...Which is the H.G.a living being...OK TY

Alex,

part 3

the kingdom of Christ is NOW. He is in heaven at the right hand of God reigning over his saints in heaven and on earth.

The only way for the Jews or Israelites to enter this kingdom is by the blood of Jesus through faith by grace, just like the Gentiles.

So, as you say, today if You hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, but turn to Jesus and be saved. This is what the Jews and Israelites must do to possess the promised Messianic kingdom. We all must be born again in order to enter the kingdom, as Jesus said to Nicodemus. All who trust in Jesus to save them, believing all He says about how we are saved by Him, will indeed be saved.

The world is full of unbelievers who need to hear and believe the gospel message of Jesus. The nation of Israel is far from this saving faith as a nation, being mostly secular now. And the Gentile world is also in rebellion to God and not in Christ's kingdom either.

We should pray for the true gospel message be proclaimed far and wide to unbelievers in hopes that some will be saved. All of the elect of God will come to faith. God knows how many and who these are. He will work in them to bring them to salvation using His gospel and believers to share it.

Alex, we can depend on the blood of Jesus, shed for us. We can obediently be baptized in water in the name of the Father and

of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (It was not part of the OT system, but of the new, as it was and has been practiced by the apostles and the church since Jesus said those words. We can walk in faith with the newness of life as we are a new creation. We can confess our sins and know that Jesus will forgive us and cleanse us from alll unrighteousness.

I know this is long. But I hope that you are blessed today in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Alex,

Part 2

...He will give the Kingdom up to the Father that God will be all in all (the only Sovereign of the Kingdom). 1Cor. 15:24

Jesus will rule with His Father forever over the saints and it will be a kingdom of joy, peace, love, power, grace, and righteousness. (Rom.14:17)

God will rule over the kingdom as the only Sovereign. He will rule over heaven and the lake of fire ensuring the blessedness of the saints and the eternal punishment of those under His wrath.

Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world ( John 18:36) It is spiritual and heavenly and also within us.

It is not a Jewish kingdom because Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to another nation. ( Matthew 21:43) (This nation being the saints of God-both Jew and Gentile) Jesus' words were fulfilled in 70 A.D. on the generation that was then present. Matthew 22:7; 23:38; Luke 21:20,24) The Romans surrounded Jerusalem and lay siege to it. They burned the temple and the city to the point of desolation. 1.1 million Jews were killed in this siege. Thousands upon thousands were taken captive and enslaved.

Even though there is a nation called Israel today does not mean that there will be an earthly kingdom with the Messiah. About 25% of the Jews worldwide emigrated to Israel since it was given nation status in 1948. The national archives of the Jews were destroyed in the 70A.D.. This means all of the records of peoples families and lineages. The other tribes of Israel have been scattered all over the world and intermixed with the Gentiles. There are a small percentage of these tribes in Israel now. So we cannot say that the whole nation ahs been regathered. But even if there comes a national regathering of ALL of Israel, this does not confirm that there will be an earthly kingdom with Jesus reigning. His kingdom is one of righteousness where sin does not enter it. This world is sinful and corrupt...

This siege ended the time of the Jews and the OT Mosaic system.

I had to look up how it's used in the bible George, I think the best description is in Hebrews 3. "The provocation", talking about the Jews in the wilderness with Moses, and how they continued to sin, hardened their hearts, still expecting to see the promise. They were, in my words, pushing it, and they pushed it too far. They provoked God one too many times. That is a great question, I don't think I've ever paid attention to that in Hebrews. God bless

Hello Pierre-Alex.

We are made clean by the sacrifice of Jesus. His blood shed on the cross and His life given for us is what cleanses us of all unrighteousness. The announcement of the gospel is the vehicle ordained by God for people to come to know this and to bring faith to the hearer. The thief on the cross saw Jesus being crucified. He recognized that He was not only innocent, but also Who He claimed to be: the Messiah, the Redeemer, and King.

This knowledge caused Him to turn to Jesus and ask in faith for Jesus to remember Him when He enters His kingdom. And Jesus told him plainly that His kingdom was NOW for the thief, not some kingdom far into the future, but in the present.. Because Jesus said that the thief would be with Him TODAY indicates that death will not separate the their from Jesus nor keep him OUT of the kingdom of Jesus the Messiah, but he will possess it through Jesus because his soul will be with Jesus, the Righteous One after death.

Jesus' Kingdom is a spiritual, heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one, because it is a perfect kingdom. This earth is imperfect and corrupted, so His kingdom will not be on this earth. It will be in the new heavens and the new earth that will be without sin, corruption, evil, the devil and his angels, the unbelievers, and death! This is the kingdom we inherit NOW and at the same time NOT YET, because He is within us now through the Holy Spirit, we will be with Him without our bodies when we die, and we will receive the kingdom in its fulness when we are resurrected.

Jesus is the fulfillment of all things the Bible speaks of in the OT and NT. He is what history is all about. He is the terminus of all things, since all things point to Him and eventually will meet completion in Him. He is the purpose of creation, all things were created by and for Him. And in His return after He has defeated all that opposes Him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, when all enemies are defeated and "under His feet" ...continued.

Blessings back at ya Jimbob!

Jerman:

In the first part of Genesis the creation is a prophecy of the new heaven and new earth in Revelation.

Adam was put in a deep sleep; the word uses sleep as death, so Adam DIED and God took a rib; a bone, from Adam and made a WOMAN, the same woman in Revelation 12, we became the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created (by the resurrection and NEW CREATION) he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME ADAM (we are baptised in his name), in the day they were created.

The resurrection made all things NEW; the new heaven and the new earth, ONE BODY arose, ONE SPIRIT gave that BODY LIFE we are all that NEW BODY and LIVE by that ONE SPIRIT.

John 17:21 That they (the NEW creation) may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (the NEW creation) may be ONE, as we are ONE.

All this was done before the foundations of the world.

You can't put a time line; God is eternal, no beginning and no end, the WORD always was; you ALWAYS were, you just had no KNOWLEDGE, of your being ONE with the WORD, OUR time in the flesh is to bring us to TRUTH, we are ONE with our GOD.

He is the LIGHT; the SUN, were are the MOON, that reflects that LIGHT.

Look at Genesis with the mind of Christ; remember GOD'S WORD, seeing they SEE NOT.

You can't use eyes of flesh.

God bless you.

Yes, we can remember what happened at this Passover supper. Jesus and the disciples were gathered and Jesus announced what the New Covenant was all about. HIM. The Old Covenant was superseded by this New Covenant, the Covenant of the Messiah and His way of bringing us to the into right relationship with the Father through His own blood, not the blood of bulls, rams, or goats, which can never atone for sins and allow us to approach the throne of grace boldly without ceremony and OT rites.

It not only is a better covenant, but the perfect covenant, the everlasting covenant that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit agreed to before the creation of the world. All of the OT rites were a shadow and type that represent the reality of Jesus and His work to save us.

How precious is His blood! How valuable is His sacrifice! How amazing is His victory over death and sin and the devil at the cross! How powerful and effective is His resurrection. It ensures that we who believe on Him will be resurrected to live eternally with God when Jesus returns once more.

Hiya ...Childoftheking very good question....But remember Jesus said ye are made clean by the WORD i have spoken unto you... John 13:10 kjv....Thus i think that the 2 thieves were made clean by that conversation that Jesus had with them....As Jesus was the living word made flesh and Blood.... John 1 And the word was God...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God...( Jesus's words )..Today if you will hear his voice harden not your hearts...Water baptism was the O.C....But under this N.C. @ Calvary...It was @ Calvary that he said it is finished...We can be bornagain by just hearing his voice...ok

TammyC You are right Tammy. Also If we look at ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and compare it with ( Mt. 24:29-31) we're told by pre-trib believers these two events are not the same, yet they have several things in common. (1) The Lord descends from heaven. (2) A sound of a trump, or trumpet. (3) He comes In the clouds. (4) There is a gathering together. The number 1 pre-tribulation rapture verse parallels perfectly with the verses in Mt. 24:29-31 that say "Immediately after the tribulation" the (Son of man) (comes in the clouds) with a great (sound of a trumpet) to (gather together) His elect. Many if not all pre-tribulation rapture believers will say that ( Mt. 24:29-31) is the same event as the return of Jesus riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16), but if we read them and do a little studying on these verses we see that there is no way these are the same events. But ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and ( Mt. 24:29-31) are the same events. (context matters) Truth matters. Thank you, Tammy. Blessings.

what does provocation mean?

People's reactions to events are rare in the Bible . When reading the four Gospels I've always thought that the reason they differ sometimes is because they are written by four different people . Each person writes what they saw and heard or they may also include in their account , information from someone else who they trust totally . For instance , in Luke we read a lot about how and where Jesus was born , some very intimate details . Where did Luke get this information ? I believe it was from Mary , who Luke could rely on as a faithful witness . It also seems that all four of the Gospel writers weren't always with Jesus so some saw things that others didn't so they don't include the things that they didn't see . It seems as if the most important things that they wanted to get right were the actual facts . Can you imagine how horrible and distressing the crucifixion would have been ? Yet we don't get any horrible details or emotional reactions . Maybe also the writers assumed that the reader would know what a crucifixion looked like and how distressing it would be so they don't feel the need to elaborate . Over my years of reading the Bible I have learned to read and re read everything slowly and carefully , often the details are actually there but not always obvious . It pays to take our time and read every day for the rest of our lives .

Amen, Brother Ronald Whittemore:

WE are saved yet by FIRE ---- 1 Corinthians 3:13

Our God is a consuming FIRE ---- Hebrews 12:29

God is the WORD --- the word is GOD ---- John 1:1

I will baptise YOU with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE

You are BORN AGAIN by the WORD of GOD

Every time we read and study the WORD we are being judged and baptised with the FIRE OF THE LORD

FIRE is the judgement of GOD

Psalms 37:28 For the Lord loveth JUDGEMENT ....

2 Corinthians 5:10 .... we all must appear before he judgement seat .....

1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE of the LORD

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ --- the WORD --- the SEED ---- the FIRE ---who is a son over his OWN HOUSE, whose House we are ...

The WORD of GOD is the FIRE OF GOD

And they were CAST ALIVE into the lake of fire --- the JUDGING WORD'S of GOD ----

You are save and born again by FIRE and WATER --- the living fire and the living water ---- the LAKE of FIRE ----

God bless you.

That's an awesome idea ! I wish I had your patience . I've always wanted to do a time line of the Old Testament , especially between Adam and Noah . My guess is that it would be quite easy to do on a computer , for someone who knows what they are doing . Sadly that someone isn't me :( . Maybe you could do it and then ask the admin on this site if they could make it part of this site so we could all see it . That would be aaaaawesome !

When we read the account in the book of John Ch 13 verses 18-30 , it's a much fuller account . I think it's so touching that the other disciples doubted themselves so much and we're afraid that they were the one that Jesus was talking about . It seems that Jesus's reply to John was only heard by John and then Jesus spoke to Judas and Judas left . Verse 29 tells us that they didn't know where Judas was going . It's worth while to contemplate that it's possible that there were plenty of others at the last supper , not just the twelve apostles , so the room might have been quite noisy . Wether that's true or not , it seems clear from John Ch 13 who heard what , and who didn't hear .