Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 299

Thanks brother Jesse. In your quoting me: "As for HUPOMENO possibly implying that salvation cannot be guaranteed now unless the Christian works hard at it to maintain his endurance & thus receiving salvation at the end", I understand that Matthew 24:13 is sometimes taken by a few to mean that salvation cannot be realized now but only at the final judgement (which takes into account that endurance/perseverance must be worked at/pursued so as to attain eternal life). But the Greek rendering, as you've shown, has a different meaning, and this is important to any who believe that our salvation isn't secure until a future time. But the Word tells us that we are secure NOW & this fact, by the Holy Spirit's witness, assures us that "He will keep us from falling & present us faultless before the presence of his glory...", i.e. the Spirit working in us ensures our endurance till the end.

So, I see that using Hupomeno or Hupomeinas does make a difference - and an important one at that. Thanks again & every blessing.

I agree Jimbob. I believe every word in God's Word is true, without error. I personally believe that as English speaking people, with an English KJV Bible, there is no need for us to learn the languages of Greek and Hebrew....the translators already did the work, and translated the Greek and Hebrew into English. God also tells us in Mark 13:

10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

That would mean the gospel would be published in different languages so the people of "all nations" could read God's Word. God knew His word would be in many many different languages including English. And, God kept His Word pure.

I don't believe God expects people to know Hebrew and Greek to "really" understand and get the true meaning of His Word. He made His Word available to all. Praise the Lord! Thanks for your post Jimbob, God bless

Jimbob, You are certainly welcome to keep your devotion to the KJV, but I do not read in Psalm 12 anything that singles out the KJV as the only true Bible. It is most likely that it does contain errors like any other translation as the Great Bible and the Bishop's Bible were used in the translating of the KJV So, the translator of the KJVC used a supposedly corrupt English versions when creating the KJV.

That said, I recognize that any translation I read from may have some errors in translation. But I do believe that there are translation besides the KJV that are as accurate as the KJV or even more so, from what I have studied about the translations.

I am enjoying reading the KJV this pasty year or so, since I had never read it before, even though I have read the Bible since I was 9. God has been good to me (because He is good) in instructing me through the Word over the decades I have walked with Him in faith and love. I put my confidence in Him, not in any specific translation, although I don't recommend the paraphrase versions.

Thank you so much for responding Richard. You summed it up quite well. I suppose my concerns are the many warnings of deception in the end times. I believe that the pre trib rapture is a deception. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that those who do believe in a pre trib rapture will fall into the deception that the anti christ is Jesus, because they don't believe they will see the anti christ, as they believe they will be raptured before then. So, my plea to them (pre trib camp) was to at least know when to say "uncle" so to speak, when they begin to see things come to pass, and they are still here, to switch gears and prepare (prepare in mind, spirit and soul). If a person takes the time to read the opening of the seals....(this is during the tribulation) and you can read in detail further in the book of Revelation events that take place during the tribulation concerning the mark, I believe that is something you need time to prepare your heart for.

God Bless...thanks again for your response.

Hi again Jimbob,

We can remember that Noah and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Moses did not have a written Torah to refer to, but God actually spoke audibly to them over their lifetimes. God had the prophets just simply speak under the influence of the Holy Spirit without rehearsing their words. David poured his heart out to God in His psalms. How many of these were literate enough to read Hebrew? Moses was. perhaps David.

God is able to bring His message to whomever He wishes in whatever way He deems good. For centuries the Bible was in the hands of the church leaders because most people could not read and the printing press had not been invented yet. Even when it was invented, people needed to become literate and be able to also afford a Bible. So for most of history, people did not have a Bible to read and study. But God still made His will and character known in a variety of ways.

We are blessed to be literate, some of us in several languages. In fact in most other developed countries, they have their native language and also read and speak English and other languages. Americans are normally not literate in any other language but

English. So, we are at a disadvantage. But we have the Bible translated in English for us. And as a result, we have benefited from the scholarship of so many others.

I am very grateful to have been given a strong desire to read the Bible since I was 9 AND to have a Bible in my home to read all of my life. I was also very blessed to be in a family of faith. We went to church every Sunday and at church a selections was read from the Old Testament and the Psalms and Gospels and the Epistles every service. So I heard and read a lot of Scripture over the 20 years I lived at home before I went off to college to finish my teaching degree. I used to love to just sit and read the Bible in the 15 minutes before services began when people would sit or kneel to pray or read.

I know that even as a young child, God's Word spoke to me.

GiGi If we Believe the Word of God to be the Truth, then we would have to Believe ( Ps. 12:6-7) Is Truth, Right? The word (pure) is #2889; it means pure (in a physical, chemical, ceremonial or moral sense) clean, sound, unadulterated, uncontaminated, innocent or holy. (Do you think 10 different modern version Bibles that all say something different could be sound doctrine, or innocent or holy doctrine)? We cant pick and choose which verses are truly Gods Words and which are not truly Gods Words. Can we? We don't have manuscripts to study today, even if we did we wouldn't be able to read them so that cannot be the Words that God promised to preserve for us for the Lastdays, even for ever. With so many different Bible versions today that say so many different things, all with different wording they couldn't possibly be the unadulterated, uncontaminated, pure Words of the LORD. We are living the Lastdays now, imagine how long the evil minions of the Devil have had to figure out ways to deceive people without them even knowing it. In ( 2 Tim. 4:3-4) The word (doctrine) is #1319; it means instruction, (the function or the information) doctrine, learning, teaching. This doctrine is the instruction, the information we learn and teach from. That would be a book, A BIBLE. ( 2 Tim. 4:3) For the time will come when ((they will not endure)) ((sound doctrine)) The word (sound) is #5198; it means to be uncorrupt (true in doctrine) Where would that doctrine be today that's not sound doctrine? All modern versions are not sound doctrine. I know we don't agree on all things GiGi, but I pray God will show you this Truth. I Believe this to be the Truth with every part of my being. God cannot lie! God Bless you GiGi.

Hey Jimbob,

I know many see these verses as you, but if I may just give another understanding of John 14:1-6, we have had discussions and I think we respect each other, and both love the word and the truth. This was just before Jesus was going to be crucified and He said, "I go and prepare a place for you". In verse 2 He said in my Father's house are many mansions.

The Greek word translated mansion is #3438 monai, meaning; an abiding dwelling place and this word is only used twice here and in John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Abode is the Greek word monia.

When Adam sinned God could not dwell in man, Jesus was on His way to shed His blood and undo what the first Adam did so that God could again through the Holy Spirit dwell in man. John 14:17 Romans 8:11 1 John 4:15. In these verses, we can see the place prepared for us by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

I understand you look to be taken to heaven and I am just putting something out there that you may study. Jesus said I will come again, He was on earth when He said I will come again.

God bless,

RLW

Jimbob,

Thank you for sharing Hebrews 4:12. I do agree with you that the word of God is alive today, just as it was back then. But if I may answer your question "Without the Strongs Concordance then how would we know the Word of God is Alive today?"



Do we really need a Strong's Concordance to know that the word of God is alive today? Those words in Hebrews 4:12 were written sometime between 67 and 69 AD. They had no concordance. And even if they did, what language would their concordance be written in if what they had at the time was the Greek text? How would they have known that the word of God was alive back then?

Please know that I am not trying to be argumentative here. I am just trying to understand why we would need a Strong's Concordance to know that the word of God is alive today.

Donna,

I also, along with GiGi, agree with what you are saying. Even though we are blessed to have Gods word in written form, I believe that if every bible in the world disappeared, God would still be able to communicate to us through other means. It is His Spirit that speaks to our hearts, and it doesn't have to be in writing. Before there was a bible in existence, God used various ways to reveal Himself and communicate His will to mankind.

There are places around the world today where bibles are not available, and in some places, it is against the law to have a bible. But in those places, Gods Spirit is still working, revealing Himself to those people. And as you say, The Jews had the WORD written in Hebrew. But even before the first five books (Torah) were written, God still communicated with them by other means.



Again, it is a blessing to have Gods word in written form and have the freedom to study from it. Who knows how much longer we will have that freedom? But even if our bibles were taken away, we still have Gods Spirit in us to communicate His will in our lives.

GiGi, I completely agree with your statement that "Some translations are better than others, but none is perfect." Amen!

Numbers Chapter 7

This chapter tells of the dedication of the tabernacle. Each prince/leading elder of each tribe brought their offerings to the tabernacle to Moses and Aaron. There were six wagons, each drawn by an oxen. There were two princes per wagon. These were given to the Levites. Every prince brought the same utensils, animals and meal for each of the proscribed offerings/sacrifices listed in Leviticus 1-6. No one gave more or less than the other. Therefore all of the tribes shared equally in the offerings to YHWH.

The gifts for the offerings were staggered over twelve days with one tribe per day bringing their offering. Everything was done in orderly fashion. This is how we should approach God in worship, in an orderly, reverent way.

The last verses are most touching. Moses approached the tabernacle and he heard a voice come from between the cherubim on the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. YHWH was having the last word. We, too, must tarry in the sanctuary a bit in worship to catch God's response to us.

Moses was familiar with the voice of YHWH. Let us pray to have such familiarity with the speaking of the Holy Spirit to us through His word and to our hearts. Jesus is the good shepherd and His sheep hear His voice. Listen for Him. His sheep will not follow another shepherd. Follow only what His Word says. (John Chapter 10) God wants to interact with us. We do not have a dry, lifeless relationship with God. It is full of life and truth and comfort and grace and mercy. It is full of assurance and hope and faith and confidence. it is full of joy, satisfaction, and gratitude. It is full of forgiveness, righteousness imputed, and provision. How wonderful is the richness of God's design for our relationship with Him.

Today is Palm Sunday. He road into Jerusalem knowing it will be His last time being there; knowing that, although the people that day hailed Him as the Messiah King, In a few more days they will cry out, "Crucify Him", rejecting Him.

Donna The answer to that question is ( 2 Pet. 1:19-21) If we didn't have the Word of God written down in a book somewhere then how could the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth? We have to be seeking His Truth somewhere, it doesn't just come to us without some type of studying from a book of some kind. ( Ps. 12:6-7) v6 Tells us "The words of the LORD are pure words" The word (pure) is #2889; it means unadulterated, uncontaminated, sound. ( Proverbs. 30:5-6) Tell us "((Every word)) of God is pure", v6 Tells us "Add thou not unto ((his words))" ( Isa. 55:11) Tells us "So shall ((my words)) be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. ( Mt. 4:4) Tells us "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by ((every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God)) Now back to ( 2 Pet. 1:19-21) These verses tell us the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: BUT HOLY MEN OF GOD SPAKE AS THEY WERE MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST. The word (spake) is #2980; it means to talk, i.e. utter words, preach, speak (after) to "lay" forth, relate in words usually of systematic or set discourse, put forth. If God preserved His Words like He promised in ( Ps. 12:6-7) These verses are the only verses that could possibly be how He preserved them for this generation today. Jesus tells us in ( Mk. 13:23) But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. I hope this helps Donna. Blessings.

Donna, you are right.

The Bible only says that He inspired the original writers of the books of Scripture. But it doesn't say that He equally inspired any translators to chose words that show the exact meaning of what was originally written. In translating into another language there is difficulty finding the best words that match the original languages. This is why translators take into consideration the whole sentence and the bigger context around the word they are trying to translate to help them in selecting words and phrases for the translation. The translators of the various Bible translations had good intentions and desired to accurately translate the Scriptures. Some translations are better than others, but none is perfect.

There are some that are word for word translations such as the KJV and the NASB

There are some that are phrase for phrase translations such as the NIV and others.

Each person will choose the translation(s) that work best for them to understand what God is speaking in the Scriptures.

STU

None of us have a problem with you concerning this verse. It states that Mary was a virgin. And that fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14.

But this verse does not prove in any way that Mary was sinless.

So please don't think that we disagree with you about Mary being a virgin--rather our disagreement is that the verse does not say she was sinless. I am not aware of any verse that attests to the sinlessness of Mary.

But I do believe she was a godly woman who was awaiting the coming of the Messiah. She did not know ahead of time that God would choose her to be the virgin prophesied. But her response shows that she was a woman of faith and humility and also a willingness to bow to the will of God in her life.

Hi Jimbob,,

I would have to side with Jesse on this matter. The original languages of the Scriptures are the true words of God that were inspired at the time God wished for them to be written. Our translations are from these original languages: Greek for the new Testament and Hebrew for the Old Testament. Those who can read Greek and Hebrew are a great source for yus and we should be willing to hear from them.

I don't concur with you that the KJV is the sole repository of God's inspired Word, nor that it in its translating was inspired like the originals written by the writers of the Old and New Testament books. It is a good translation to use, but is not perfectly translated any more than and other translation.

Hi Donna.

You can read that citation in 2 Peter 1:21. I think this is what you were looking for.

Thanks brother Jesse for sharing that information. Just to add to that, and I quote an excerpt by Monseigneur Daniel Kutys that was published in the Website, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops: "Until the twentieth Century, it was only Protestants who actively embraced Scripture study. That changed after 1943 when Pope Pius XII issued the encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu. This not only allowed Catholics to study Scripture, it encouraged them to do so. And with Catholics studying Scripture and teaching other Catholics about what they were studying, familiarity with Scripture grew."

I can't speak generally for Catholics, except from those in my circle of acquaintances, there has been a greater interest & hunger to learn more of the Scriptures, not just in the casual reading of them, but seeking to understand its meaning & application. I know that from the pulpit, some good messages are given, but when it comes down to scriptural analysis & in-depth study, the laity seems to be deprived & such study remains only in the realm of the clergy. So, I often get the exclamation, 'is that really in the Bible or does the Bible really say that?' I see this as a good 'hunger', as resting in & seeking only from the Word of God & not from man, can we ever gain deep insights & Truth that can bring us light & liberty. When the traditions & teachings of the Bible are adhered to & not those of the Church, our hearts are exposed to wonderful messages directly from the Spirit of God to our hungry hearts.

Where does God's word say: God used holy men to translate the bible?

Holy men penned the words of God by the Spirit of Christ.

Where does it say holy men translated the exact meaning of God's word.

Only the anointing of the Spirit of Christ can bring you to truth of the of meaning of God's word.

The Jews had the WORD written in Hebrew, the gentiles have the WORD written in Greek, we have dictionaries and concordances; yet no one understands the WORD written; because the WORD is God, a living man, not LETTERS on a page written by flesh and blood.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing you have received of him (THE LIVING WORD) abideth IN YOU, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the SAME anointing teaches you all things, and is TRUTH, and no lie, and even as it (the anointing) hath taught you, ye shall abide IN HIM.

God bless you

In other words; the the woman riding the Beast is a false one world religion that kills believers first; then Satan takes over and destroys it in order to enforce worship for himself; two seperate events as I see it.

Agape; RIch P

It certainly can be said as happened say in Germany in the 1930's that family members betraying others has been a repeated theme of persecution; whether with dictatorships; or in many Mideast countries today.

As to the other two things; I will repeat what I've said quite often that the gates of hell will NOT prevail against the church; but the saints (in general) will be overcome and martyred during the Tribulation which God Himself must cut short or no one would survive. He who restrains must be held back until he is removed (I would contend with the explanation of that being the method in which the Spirit works with the gifts and calling in the current church age). It is certainly not out of the question that as Daniel states "only the wise will understand" that indeed the man of sin may be evident to God's people before he becomes world dictator and perhaps that fits into the "midnight hour" parable as a sign.

The mark of the Beast is something accompanying worship of Satan and the image set up (which people likely will have some technological way to reproduce). If we take the Tribulation in basic chronological order we see seal judgments first; then sealing the 144,000; then after God's 2 prophets minister they are destroyed and resurrected and the false prophet imitates similar miracles such as fire coming down from the sky. I would strongly state that the covenant which is now likely in initial stages will be "confirmed with many" as Daniel 9:27 states. The first seal or false peace is the first delusion sent by God so those who don't LOVE the truth will be damned. That is clearly judgment as all seals are with Christ Himself opening them personally.

I will state that we all must be ready to die for His names' sake; as it is rapidly getting to where all will hate us from all nations and those who think they believe God will think as the scripture states that they are doing HIm a favor by killing us. False religion I believe comes first

Jesse thank you for your response. When I said reading the Greek text may not be as helpful as you think it is, what I meant is if the King James Bible IS the Inspired Word of God (and it is) where He used holy men of God to translate it to the English language for these last days, then reading the Greek text would be going away from the Inspired Word of God that He sent to us for this time. God is in control of His Word being the most printed book of all time. It would be really, really hard for many people to learn a new language such as the Greek, comparing these two things is not quite a fair comparison wouldn't you agree with that? And then there would be the Hebrew language also, how hard would it be to learn both languages? I do agree with many things that you post Jesse, but it would seem the few things we do not agree on are very important for the time period we are living now. We are living the Lastdays. Jesse if the KJB is the Inspired Words of the LORD, then that means the fact that we can take any word from the KJB back to the Original language ourselves and get the True meaning of the words, would that not be like a second witness in the languages that God created for us? It is given to us by God Himself. The Word of God is alive today as we are told in ( Heb. 4:12) The word (quick) is #2198; it means to live, (a-) live. This is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say about the second witness in the languages. Without the Strongs Concordance then how would we know the Word of God is Alive today? The Truth should be the most important thing for you, for me and also for anybody who posts or just reads the posts in this group. Again I mean no offence, I am just being honest, and trying to be helpful to all. Truth matters. Thank you again Jesse. God Bless you.

Jesus said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" ( Jn. 14:1-3) v2 Jesus tells us "I go to prepare a place for you" v3 Jesus tells us "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that ((where I am, there ye may be also)) Jesus said where He is there we will be also. In ( Mt. 24:29-31) v30 Tells us "and they shall see the Son of man ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven with power and great glory. (Where is Jesus in these verses? (COMING IN THE CLOUDS!) v31 Tells us "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall (gather together his elect) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (We are gathered together to meet our Lord in the air, in the clouds) In ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) v15 Speaks of the coming of the Lord. v16 Tells us "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" this verse does not say Jesus comes to the earth, it says He descends from heaven. v17 Tells us where He is! "Then we which are alive and remain shall ((be caught up together with them in the clouds)) ((to meet the Lord in the air)) We meet Jesus in the air, in the clouds. Remember ( Jn. 14:3) "that where I am, there ye may be also" We meet Him in the clouds. ( Mt. 24:40-41) v40 Tells us "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be (taken), and the other left. The word (taken) is #3880; it means to receive near, associate with oneself (in an fimiliar or intimate act or relation) to assume an office, receive, take (unto, with) Remember ( Jn. 14:3) Jesus said "I will come again, AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF" that where I am, there ye may be also" (IN THE CLOUDS). If we read the return of Christ riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16) We see He returns from heaven ((to the earth)) to rule the nations with a rod of iron. ((He returns to the earth))! Coming in the clouds is to gather together His elect, the church, His bride to be taken to the marriage supper of the Lamb. These are 2 very different events. Truth matters. Blessings

Jimbob,

I don't see anything in the words I wrote that would indicate that I was offended, but I can assure you that you did not offend me in the least bit. I agree with you on 2 Timothy 3:16. The early church would have also agreed on this even though the KJV wasn't even in existence at that time.

As for your statement that "Everyone can't read the Greek language like you can Jesse, but most everyone can own a KJB and a Strongs Concordance to get the True meaning of the words in the Original languages." I completely agree with you on that also. It is true that everyone can own a King James Bible and a Strongs Concordance. But it is also true that everyone has the opportunity to learn to read Greek language if they so choose. It is available for everyone just the same as the KJB and Strong's Concordance is available to everyone. Please know that I am in no way claiming to have a greater understanding than anyone else just because I have learned to read Greek. I would never claim that.

You're telling me that being able to read the Greek text may not be as helpful to me as I think it is, but how can you possibly know how much it has helped me? I can tell you that it has helped me tremendously in my studies. Wouldn't this statement be the same as saying that one who finds looking up Greek words in the Strong's Concordance to be helpful might not be as helpful as they think?

Again, you have not offended me at all. I do agree with some of the things you post, but not everything. I know you don't agree with me on everything either, but I would hope that you might agree with me on something I share. If we couldn't find common ground on anything, what would be the use of these discussions?

God Bless you also!

STU,

You have given the correct wording of Luke 1:27. That's exactly what it says. My question to you is how do you get "Mary the mother of God was without sin" out of that verse? I don't see how you come up with that. Please help!

(Part 2):

STU,

You can actually go online to the Vatican archives, and they will tell you that the bible was once banned (By the Roman Church). Pope Pius IV had a list of forbidden books, and he prohibited them. The bible was on the list. Here is what he had to say:

"Whoever reads or has such a translation in his possession cannot be absolved from his sins until he has turned in these BiblesBooks in the vernacular dealing with the controversies between Catholics and the heretics of our time are not to be generally permitted but are to be handled in the same way as Bible translations."

For 600 years, the Roman Catholic Church attempted to keep translations of the Bible out of the hands of the people. Bible-believing people were mercilessly persecuted, and their Scriptures were destroyed. Those who possessed Bibles without a license were commanded to deliver them up to the Catholic authorities under threat of inquisition terrors. In most cases, even after turning their bibles in, they would still be labeled as heretics and burned at the stake. Their crime was that they were in possession of a bible. Bible translators and distributors were imprisoned and burned. Even after the Catholic inquisition was outlawed in many lands in the 18th and 19th centuries, the popes continued to condemn the free distribution of Scripture."

(Part 1):

STU,

History tells a different story. There was a long period in church history where the Roman Church forbad the reading of the Bible. Not only was it forbidden to read, but the Roman Church also would not allow anyone to be in possession of a bible. If you do a study on church history, particularly the Dark Ages (A.D. 500-1500), you will find out that the Roman Church burned bibles, and also burned at the stake those who were in possession of a bible. No one was allowed to question the teachings of the Papacy, and it made perfect sense as to why they would not allow the reading of the bible. If one was allowed to read for themselves, the fear was that they would discover the gross errors of the church.

The Roman Church, at the Council of Toulouse (1229 AD) had this to say:

"We prohibit also that the laity should not be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books." (Canon 14). A few years later (1234), at the Council of Tarragona, had this to say:

"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments, and if anyone possesses them, he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days, so that they may be burned."

During the Inquisition, which was established by Pope Gregory IX in 1233, there was an "Index of Forbidden Books" which Roman Catholics were forbidden to read or possess. The bible was on that list. Bibles were being burned. Only certain high-ranking clergy were allowed to be in possession of a bible, and according to them, only they had the authority to interpret what the bible taught.

During the Dark Ages, even priests were unable to read the Scriptures for themselves. As a result, they were unable to compare the false doctrines sweeping through the Roman church against the doctrines of the Word of God. In Italy (Predominantly RC), it was still illegal to own a Bible until 1870!

Jesse I'm sorry if I offended you, I promise you that was not my intent. You said "you appreciate that I enjoy Greek and sharing Greek words" I don't enjoy Greek, when I do share Greek words its only to show the True meaning of the word from the KJB to be helpful to others who don't use a Concordance. I study the Word of God using a Strongs Concordance which gives the True meaning of those words in the Hebrew language and the Greek language. I do see the Word of God as being God breathed, ( 2 Tim. 3:16) it is exactly what God wanted it to be for these last generations, and that would especially apply for us today. Everyone can't read the Greek language like you can Jesse, but most everyone can own a KJB and a Strongs Concordance to get the True meaning of the words in the Original languages. You said you do own a Concordance so I would assume you find them to be helpful for finding deeper Truths from the Word of God through the meanings of the words in the Original language. You said you sometimes enjoy reading the Greek text over the English Bible because it brings out much more meaning? If the KJB is the Inspired Word of God (which it is) then that's why the Strongs Concordance works with it to get the Original meanings of the words. Modern versions have changed the words so you can't use a Strongs Concordance to get the True meaning of all their words. I honestly mean no disrespect Jesse, but being able to read the Greek text may not be as helpful to you as you think it is. If we Believe the Words of the LORD are pure Words and that God preserved His Words for ever, ( Ps. 12:6-7) then we do have those pure, God breathed Words today. Right? That would be the KJB. Again I truly mean no offence Jesse, I am learning on this site everyday, we all should be. Its not about who knows what, it should only be about seeking and accepting His Truth from His Word. We can all learn from one another, as I have said many times Truth matters. God Bless you Jesse.

(Part 2):

Jesus Himself teaches this in Matthew 24:13 when He says, "But the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved." Endurance is a major characteristic being developed in each believer through the maturation process. It is only through endurance that the gospel is preached, and it is only through the development of endurance that a believer is able to hold steady through the tribulations and hardships of life to reach the end when all believers will reign with Christ. Paul, in encouraging the Thessalonians concerning the patient waiting for the coming of Christ, writes in 2 Thessalonians 3:5, "Now may the Lord guide your hearts into the love of God, and into the endurance of Christ." Enduring circumstances is a fundamental characteristic of the person who is saved.

Chapter 21 of Luke presents the hardships that will come upon those who belong to Christ in the last days. In our study text, Luke 21:19, Jesus commands His followers to gain their souls through the endurance of these hardships. This statement is parallel to one found in Matthew 24:13, "But the one having endured unto the end shall be saved." Both of these gospel writers present the teaching of Jesus as saying that the one who belongs to Christ will endure unto the end. Patient endurance, according to Jesus, is a characteristic of the one who is saved; it is not the work ethic of the believer.

Blessings to you in Christ!

Brother Chris,

Thank you for the additional clarification. I think we're on the same page here. If we take Matthew 24:13 from the English text, it looks like it is a challenge for us to endure. But the Greek text a different understanding. It gives the proof of those who are saved. They will endure.

Matthew 24:13 (KJV) "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Matthew 24:13 (TR) "HO DE HUPOMEINAS" translated the one having endured.

And yes, you are correct. The Textus Receptus has the word HUPOMEINAS. This is one who remains under or one who endures. It is a form of the word HUPOMENO which is made up of the preposition HUPO meaning under, and MENO which means to remain. Also, MENO (Remain/Abide/Stay) by itself denotes permanency. Once a person has experienced a spiritual birth by receiving Christ, that person is then abiding and remaining in the Lord because of the Spirit of God abiding in him. This position, or condition, can never change, because the Spirit of God forever lives within the spirits of His people. This also would apply here. We endure to the end because we have Gods Spirit permanently abiding in us.

But both words (HUPOMENO/HUPOMEINAS) are very close. As for HUPOMENO possibly implying that salvation cannot be guaranteed now unless the Christian works hard at it to maintain his endurance & thus receiving salvation at the end, I have never looked at that word that way. But I do see how one might come to that conclusion.

You mention the reformers, which I think is a great example of enduring to the end. This also proved their salvation. They could only endure because of the indwelling of Gods Spirit.

I am running out of space so I will need to send a part 2.

I believe the verse says what it means. To look circumspectly to see what the topic is, what is being said, here are the verses:

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

When you see the word "Then" it's telling you what is coming next, after the Beginning of Sorrows, and then you see the word "And" three times, that is a continuation/inclusion of things happening at that time, then we see the word "BUT", meaning a totally different statement but connected to what's being said. So, the topic is first, speaking to believers about what will happen during the end times, warnings. But the person that is able to endure all those things, until the end, those very people shall be saved. Logically, if you don't endure those things, you will not be saved.

If Mary was not made clean by her fetus....Christ in her.... How in the world are we gonna be made clean by his words spoken unto us....And remember Jesus was the LIVING word made flesh and BLOOD....The living word contains HIS BLOOD...As my words are spirit and life...Life is in his blood the living word....But not the written word that old covenant...Calvary was a N.C.

Just as God's seed formed Christ in MARY....The seeds of the sower are gonna form Christ in us.... Gal. 4:19....My lil children of whom i travail in birth again till Christ is formed in YOU....The wheat is a baby Christ the H.G. That Child of Promise simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom....Thats y he has to know us...He wants to KNOW everybody...Thats y Isaiah saw Knowledge covering the whole earth as the waters covering the seas...This knowledge is an INTIMACY that is gona result in a birth of Christ in every body...Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains...30:6...Thus an Israel of GOD...If i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me....Thats y the woman in Rev 12:5 is giving birth....Remember Jesus said the field is the world...Where that good seed will be sown...Thus he will impregnate this whole world with is precious seed. ....3 of the prophets saw this whole world at rest and full of his GLORY....That was the N.C. God said he wd know them all from the least to the greatest Jeremiah 31:34...Thats everybody.. the world...But the book in the right hand of the father has to be opened 1st which is that N.C. that he wrote with his own blood...Thats when we will sing a new song...We will no longer sing this Churchanity Song...(Sunday go to meeting song)....As Bro. Paul said when that which is prefect is come that which is done in parts will be done away with....She brought forth a man child that is gonna rule all nations, thats right here on this beautiful EARTH...The manchild is the H.G. the gift of God to us sinners...Which is mankinds fruit unto God..ok Gb