Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 300

Chris

Certain translations of the Bible were prohibited by the Catholic Church because they were considered heretical or contained anti-Catholic commentaries1. However, reading the Bible was never prohibited by the Church1. In fact, it was encouraged by many Church leaders throughout history.

GIGI

It is written in Luke 1:27 in the Holy Bible in KJV on this site.

"To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary."

To all the people who answered my question the Holy Bible does state that in Luke 1:27

"To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary."

Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, KD7IVS.

We see these names, Urim & Thummim mentioned in various passages (e.g. Exodus 28:30, Leviticus 8:8, Numbers 27:21). Not much is known about them (there is even ignorance & debate amongst the Jews about this), except that they were likely stones (maybe precious stones) that were placed in the Jewish high priest's "breastplate of judgement"; sometimes referred to as the "breastplate of decision". Within that breastplate were also the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, so it appears that there might be a connection there, where the high priest used these stones to determine God's Will in certain situations concerning Israel.

How God chose to guide the priest to a correct judgement/decision is not told us: whether by the appearance of Light (Urim) or Perfections or declaration of Truth (Thummim). In 1 Samuel 28:6 which you referred to, we read of King Saul making enquiry of the LORD, but the LORD did not speak to him, whether by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by the prophets. This then seems to be some of the ways that God revealed His Word to His people, and these stones, Urim & Thummin, were used by the High Priest to learn the answer from God for the people.

Hi Stu. I see that many here have responded to you out of concern for you. I also realize that the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church can be very strong & indeed become a part of one's whole belief system & directing of life's affairs. What these folk here have shared is Truth, as given from the Bible, God's Word to us, and not according to Church teaching & dogma. The fact that the Papacy have permitted Catholics to read the Bible for themselves, when once upon a time it was forbidden, is a wonderful permission where Catholics (even those among my acquaintances) are now reading & asking questions; you may be one also wanting to seek Truth. The Church, from history, whether Catholic, Protestant, or whatever, has never been the sole repository of Truth - only the Bible contains it & we need to put aside if possible, what we've been taught & listen to what God's Word has to say.

Enough has been written to you on Mary's spiritual condition: that she was a normal human being, coming to Earth the normal way, & attaining the same sinful condition that we all have sadly received. You have mentioned the name, the Virgin Mary, & equating that title to her 'sinlessness', & why should she be so referred to as Virgin Mary, if she wasn't pure? Apart from what others have shared, I also understand this title given (even as far back as Isaiah 7:14), refers to the fact that Mary, Joseph, those acquainted with her family & those who would come to trust in Jesus as the Messiah, would know that it was God alone Who did this miraculous work of impregnating Mary with His Holy Seed. There were many virgin women in Israel at that time, & all had to have sexual relations with their husbands to conceive. But Mary was an exception: her Seed came directly from God, untainted with a sin nature, & she would be used as the means to fulfil prophecy & bring a Man, fully Divine, into the World. Hence, I see that the title, Virgin Mary, applying to this fact: that this was a miracle from God.

That was enlightening brother Jesse & many thanks for that clarification. I did look up Matthew 24:13 in Strong's Concordance & noted that if 'hupomeno' was the word used, then 'to wait, stay behind, endure' would be accurate. But in context & in how the Greek is grammatically expressed, then 'hypomeinas', (from 'hupomeno'), is the word used & implied, which of course as you wrote is, 'having endured' (or, 'the one who has endured').

And this 'difference' might appear to be minor to most unless one understands its ramifications. The former (hupomeno) implies that salvation cannot be guaranteed now unless the Christian works hard at it to maintain his endurance & thus receiving salvation at the end; whereas the latter (hypomeinas) shows that the Christian who has received salvation will/must endure to the end - no exceptions, no allowances made. That any turning back from God's Promises, denial of Christ or the faith, even succumbing to threats to life or family, only shows that a mighty spiritual change & the ministering Holy Spirit within has never been evident in the person's life.

I think that this would be an extremely sad scenario, when one's life is placed ahead of the Lord's Love & Mercy - when self-preservation is counted more important than self-sacrifice for the Love of God. And so we see many examples of Matthew 24:13, both today & especially of yesteryear, of the reformers who withstood the onslaught of popery against them & went to the stake, willingly accepting the fagots lit about them, remaining resolute in faith & calling on God for strength. These have endured because of the Spirit's enabling within & not on human resolve & strength for victory, which only guarantees failure - for some have denied their Lord. Their joyful deaths proved their salvation & outworking of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

Thank you Sister. We had a great time away but always good to get back home & into a regular routine again.

Jimbob,

I do own a Strongs Concordance, but I do not have access to it right now. It has been quite a while since I have used a concordance. Ever since I have learned to read and understand Greek (still learning), I have not relied on my concordance as much as I used to. My Greek NT (Textus Receptus) which I read from does not have the Strongs numbers. Sometimes I prefer to sit and read the Greek text over my English bible. For me, it brings out much more meaning as to what the English text is actually saying. Plus, I enjoy reading the Greek text as much as I can in order to become more fluent at it. I appreciate that you enjoy Greek and sharing Greek words. Other than looking words up in a concordance, if you don't mind me asking, what is your background in Greek, particularly with Greek sentence structure and how each word fits according to the way it is presented in the Greek? I believe the word you are speaking of is HUPOMENO? I mentioned in my post that this was an Aorist Participle, which is how I came to my understanding of how the word was being used. I can explain Aorist Participles if that helps.

Blessings to you also!

STU,

No, the Bible does not say that Mary was without sin. Romans 3:23 says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This means that every human being except the Son of God made man (Jesus) never sinned.

Welcome back Chris.

Dear STU

I agree that the Bible says that Mary was a virgin. In being a virgin and becoming pregnant by the Holy

Spirit, Jesus was then born of a virgin, as God prophesied through Isaiah (Is. 7:14)

STU, I stand by what I wrote to you. The Bible never says that Mary was without sin. It says that only Jesus is without sin. He alone is perfectly holy. All men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:23).

So, Mary was saved by the sacrifice of Jesus like every Christian. But, because of God's sovereign selection of her to be the mother of Jesus, she indeed, is blessed of all women.

Even so, the Bible says that every knee will bend and tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God (Phil.2:10)

But the Bible nowhere says that every knee will bow to Mary.

So, STU, I challenge you to read the four gospels and the epistles to see

-whether it says that Mary was sinless or not,

-whether it says that we should bend our knee to her or not,



-whether we are asked to pray to her or not, whether she is called our mediatrix (having the power to be our mediator between God and man) or if Jesus is the one Mediator between God and man ( 1Tim. 2:5),

-whether she is man's co-redemptrix with Jesus or if Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice for our sins ( Heb 7:27; 9:14)

-whether she was translated to heaven without dying

After you have read all of the New Testament to find the answers to these points, then you can get back to us and give us Scripture citations that support any of the Catholic beliefs about Mary.

Hello Stu,

You wrote:

"Why would the Bible call Mary the mother of God " The Virgin Mary" if she was a sinner and besides Jesus is free from sin so God his Father would not have chosen a sinner to give birth to a sinless Jesus."

Instead of taking scripture at face value like Psalm 51:5 it seems you prefer to believe your own assumptions. I suspect that you already know that fornication/adultery is sin, and that not all sin is fornication or adultery. So, its very possible for a sinner to a virgin- that describes most teenagers, of which Mary was one. Do you believe its possible for a sinner to not to a certain sin like fornication/adultery? If so then you would agree that a sinful person can be a virgin like Mary.

Now, for the second part of what you assumed:

"Jesus is free from sin so God his Father would not have chosen a sinner to give birth to a sinless Jesus."

How could you know what God the Father's thought process was? Do you have a scripture that says what you just said that He "would not have" chosen a sinner?

There is no scripture saying that. But there's plenty of scripture supporting the opposite.

Paul - killed Christians and had a "thorn" in his side, but chosen to spread the gospel and write much of the Bible.

Moses - murdered a guy and possibly a speech impediment, but chosen anyway by God.

David - had a guy killed so he could have an affair with his wife- pretty sick sinful stuff, but God used him anyway.

Remember how Jesus paid extra attention to the vile and "worst" sinners, like the prostitute, and tax collector, thief, lepers, etc.

It seems that God actually takes a liking to people who are imperfect sinners.

Have you ever read this verse?

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 2 Corinthians 12:9 KJV

Hello Jesse. If you don't mind I've got something to add to your comment. I don't see where you got your understanding of the meaning of the word (endure) as "but the one who has endured" Jesse in ( Mt. 24:13) from your comment. I see the word (endure) in the Strongs Concordance as #5278 in Greek, it means to stay under, (behind) i.e. remain, to undergo, i.e. bear (trials) have fortitude, persevere, abide, (take) patient (-ly) suffer, tarry behind. Also it would seem at least in part, the things this verse is saying one must endure unto the end are the things spoken of just before this verse in ( Mt. 24:9-12) The word (saved) is #4982: it means "safe" to save, i.e. deliver or protect, heal, preserve, be (make) whole. The word (saved) in this verse has the same meaning as the word (saved) in ( Rom. 5:9) where it says "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be (saved) from wrath through him". We shall be (saved) or (delivered) from wrath through Him. This is just what I see from these verses anyway. Thank you Jesse for the post. God Bless.

Do you think that being a virgin means that you are sinless ? Do you think that sexual intercourse in a sin ? If so , can you please explain why you think these things , thankyou .

Psalm 91 Verse 11 of this Psalm was quoted in Matthew 4:6; which is indicative of the promises which the Son of God no doubt had being part of the eternal Godhead with the angels He created for eternal worship in heavenly places.

Looking at the preceding verses; we see promises for those who are God's children to be hidden (compare with Colossians 3:3); and we shouldn't ignore the following statement in verse 2 about those who TRUST God. We also see promises which apply in general to God's covenant people such as Deuteronomy 7:15; and fulfilled by Christ in verses such as Isaiah 53:5. Ultimately; however these promises will be fulfilled in the Millennial Kingdom as may be indicated in verse 7; and in the Tribulation for those dweiling in heaven as indicated from verse 9.

Luke 10:19 shows how Christ fulfills certain promises in freedom from Satan's grip which is similar to what it states in Psalm 91:13.

The remainder of the Psalm could indicate Christ's reward as well as our own during the Millennial period as well. There will also be natural life expectancies (see Isaiah 65:22) that are vastly extended at that time.

As we look at things today; of course we still live with all of creation groaning as it were; such as indicated in Romans 8:22. Satan himself will get his due reward; ending once and for all his usurper role as a pseudo ruler; who ultimately fulfills God's prophetic plan; as it did when he entered Judas Iscariot so that all things could be fulfilled and Christ would die for our atonement ( Heb. 9:28; also read Isaiah 53 in its entirety). We are all in perishable bodies for a brief time; but we certainly can find ways to shorten our lives due to sin adding to our miseries. For now; pestilences and other things can be held back or mitigated; but that will not be helpful during the Tribulation. At that time the 144,000 will be supernaturally protected before God brings judgments upon the earth. May we live soberly in the fear of God

Jesus is without sin how could His mother be with sin if she is called the Virgin Mary.

You are picking and choosing what you believe and not what is written in the Holy Bible. It states that Mary was a Virgin, which is why she was called Blessed; every knee will bend. You have an opinion and that is not the truth.

STU I hear ya...Thats y Jesus was born for us sinners....He is our savior....Jesus is exactly what we sinners need...That New Heart and New spirit...A new innerman...The H.G....Thats y he said if i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me...And that great Promise was that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thats y the sower of that good seed wants to sow his precious seed in our hearts..That we might birth a baby Christ the H.G..That Child of Promise...That we might be bornagain of his incorruptible seed which is that living word....Making humanity incorruptible..Resulting in an Israel of God which are spirits that are gonna be born in us sinners via his seed....Thats y he has to know us...Thats y they refer to Jesus as the bridegroom he wants to sow his seed in our hearts...Thus there is a baby christ in our future...Which is the H.G. That Child of Promise....And in Rev 12 :10 the Kingdom comes after the woman births the manchild which is the H.G the Kingdom...The Kingdom of God is not in meat or drink but in joy and peace in the H.G. Romans 14:17...Thats y Jesus was saying unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...The reason we refer to the H.G. as the Promise is B/C the H.G. is the multiplication of JESUS IN US SINNERS VIA HIS PRECIOUS SEED the word....That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven in us sinners via his seed ....God so loved the world implying humanity...And God was so passionate about this Promise of multiplication that he swore by his very self....in Hebrews 6:13...Thats y Jesus was saying to whom the word came it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken...Thus we will be married to God making us 1 with God.... Isaiah 62:5...As a young man marries a virgin so shall thy God rejoice over you...ok Gbu

STU,

I would like to give an alternate answer to your original question, seeing that your question only required a simple yes or no.

You ask "Does the Holy Bible say that Mary the mother of God was without sin?"

The answer is no.

If you have biblical proof to show otherwise, can you please provide it? The verses you provided do not show Mary to be without sin, nor do they support perpetual virginity.

I would like to see scripture that supports what you are saying. I cannot consider these things without scriptural proof. Can you please provide those scriptures?

Thank you ahead of time for sharing!

Luke 1:34 - Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? Mary was sinless.

STU

There is not a verse in the Bible that calls Mary The Virgin Mary. The Bible does say that she was a virgin. However, being a virgin does not equate to sinlessness or else every woman who is a virgin could be said to be sinless.

Galatians 4:4 says that God the Father sent forth His Son in the fullness of time, born of a woman. God ordained that Mary would be the mother of His Son in His incarnation. She was selected before the world began.

Elizabeth said that Mary is blessed of all women in Mark 1:42. And therefore, she is the most blessed woman of all time. But that does not make her sinless. She said in Luke 1:47 that her spirit rejoices in God my Savior, showing that she knew that she was a sinner and in need of a Savior.

We can honor Mary for what God chose her to be, but she is not more than a woman chosen by God to become pregnant with Jesus and raise Him to manhood. What the Catholic and Orthodox churches teaches about her being sinless, having an assumption to heaven without dying, and being a co-redemptrix with Jesus are all added doctrines to the Scriptures and are to be rejected because the Bible does not teach these things.

I understand that you wish to follow the teachings of your church's authority. But I urge you to take a different approach and have the Scriptures be your final authority and submit to its teachings only for faith, life, and practice. While there is much to be commended in the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, there are many doctrines that have been added over the centuries that were not part of the doctrines of the apostles and early church. I recommend that you test all that is taught to you in your church by what the Scriptures teach and hold on to all that aligns rightly and taught with Scripture and reject all that cannot be found in Scriptures.

I have known a number of people in the Catholic Church who have done this and found that there are some teachings that they needed to reject upon examination.

Why would the Bible call Mary the mother of God " The Virgin Mary" if she was a sinner and besides Jesus is free from sin so God his Father would not have chosen a sinner to give birth to a sinless Jesus.

Luke 1:27

To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

And Catholics and Orthodox don't make a graven image of the Virgin Mary. And if what you said 'a graven image' then that is untrue.

Exodus 26:

Moreover, thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubim's of cunning work shalt thou make them.

Hi Jema

So true,

You may have done this before but if you haven't, I think you will find it worthy of a study of the word patience. It is different from faith, but it is very valuable. Look up the meaning and verses in the bible where it is used and the context of the verses around it. In the conversations about the end times that have been going on, this word is emphasized in Rev. 13:10 and Rev. 14:12. We will need patience if we are living when the beast shows up. Many things come out of patience.

God bless,

RLW

Reading through Matthew Chapter 24, and Matthew 24:13 says "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Our English Bible makes it sound like a challenge for us to endure unto the end, like we need to do whatever it takes to endure.



But the literal translation from the Greek is, "but the one who has endured," not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.



In the Greek text, this is an Aorist Participle, which shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament.



The person who is saved WILL endure to the end. So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. Salvation is a promise. We are saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.

To God B All The Glory I'm Forever Thankful Beyond Grateful For Grace Abundantly Blessed & Highly Favored, Praising, Glorifying & Thanking U Heavenly Father God for Blessing us this morning with the gift of seeing another beautiful sunrise & this evening to see another beautiful sunset Father God we Thank U for your strength & energy that sustained us throughout this entire day & Hugging us so tight that all our Broken Pieces will fit back together again

Gratitude is Always Our Attitude In Jesus Name AMEN

In Luke 12:35-48 there are some credible words. Pay special attention to v. 48. Before, I've read this as a judgment on those who don't listen. But here it says that we will get what we deserve. That is, if you are a Jesus save person, we can never be anything else. It is the surrounding environment that creates this division. Jesus explains it in the next section.

In 1 Timothy 1:18-20, we get another small clue that the condemnation the Christians bring upon themselves is and becomes sensual/bodily and certainly not in the Spirit of the Lord. Pay special attention here to v. 20. Even Paul is saying here that they will learn! That means they are not condemned by him or Jesus. So what does that mean? For us grace over grace. We must work on our salvation with fear and trembling. Because Jesus says it at the beginning of this chapter of Luke. Repent and understand the difference between body, soul, and spirit. Ask for forgiveness loudly so that our enemy can never ever pass the transgressions a few more times for us. Those we have, in the body of Jesus we are equal before God. Amen. For we converted have received the Spirit of the Lord and understand when we have done something wrong. Hallelujah, we have no escapes. And we're doing the best we can, aren't we? Praise be to God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

Which of us wants to throw away the only nice/good thing we have in life?

So we take up our sword and repel our enemies. You're right Bill, remember and be strong and brave. He never leaves you. He is. Love u all in Christ, and have a much happy Easter. Considering that He is alive today!

Thank you brother for your kind words & yes, it's good to be back after a lovely short spell away. I did miss you all & tried to keep up to date with various submissions by folk, whenever I was able to connect with my intermittent internet.

And thanks for the reminder: 'by whom we are 'persuaded'. Every Spirit-filled believer ought to be constantly in tune with & be led of the Holy Spirit, though how often our flesh raises its ugly head & 'persuades' us to disobey. But we cannot claim ignorance or apathy when that happens - we WILL know it - the Spirit will not let a millisecond pass by without an immediate sense of straying off the path of holiness & truth - it just cannot happen to the one Spirit filled. What we do with His Word alerting us or convicting us, indicates how well we are walking in the Spirit ( Galatians 5:16,24,25) & pleasing our Lord.

When a man easily drifts into sin, sensing no spiritual alert, maybe even finding some Scripture & distorting it to fit his lust, that man truly needs to stop in his tracks, come aside for a while & "examine himself" whether he truly has the faith that saves, secures, & satisfies. And for many, I think, this is hard to come to grips with: how can they determine that the life they live, the decisions they make & recognizing how & when the Spirit is working, are truly of God & not from human capabilities & expertise? Human goodness & desires can often be intermingled with the Spirit's Voice & leading, bringing about confusion. But we should know the difference - as mature believers, it should be abundantly clear to us of the difference between the Spirit speaking (& persuading) and the persuasions from the flesh. And when the flesh is crucified daily, as the apostle did, we can be assured of being led only of the Spirit & our thoughts & hopes will always be directed heavenward. Every blessing brother & thanks again for sharing on this very important topic to remind us 'that we're not our own' ( 1 Corinthians 6:20).

Hi Stu,

Based on your initial question, then based on your disagreement with someone who answered your question, I'm not sure you were genuinely seeking an answer. But in case its helpful to any one else viewing the topic I'll share my thoughts.

Some say we're all born into sin- from the original sin. I believe the original sin affects all of us. Jesus was sinless and perfect His whole life. He's the only one like that.

Based on references like Matthew 18:3 I think it's possible that we're born innocent, pure, and sinless, but is inevitable sin will occur. All people sin (Jesus is the only exception). Mary is not an exception, nor any other people from the Bible. This verse Psalm 51:5 suggests Mary had sin. There is no such verse claiming she was any different than anyone else, other than being chosen for giving birth to Jesus.

When I see some Catholics praying to Mary, chanting to her, singing to her, worshipping her, making graven images of her and bowing down to her statue, it seems like an obvious sin of idolatry- violating the 2nd commandment: Deuteronomy 5:7.

Acts 4:12 says there's no one else but Jesus. Not Mary, not a pope, not a pastor, not the government, not family, or friends, or anyone else but Jesus in whom we should put our hope and trust in.

God bless.

Ronald Yes Jesus comes for the church (Immediately after the tribulation), ( Mt. 24:29-31) He doesn't carry us to heaven we meet Him in the air, in the clouds, ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) And the word (heaven) is #3772; it means (through the idea of elevation) ((the sky)), by extension heaven (as the abode of God) by implying happiness, power, eternity, ((air)) When Jesus comes in the clouds and all True Believers are caught up to meet Him in the air, (1 Thess.4:17) Don't you think that would be as a thief in the night to All non-believers who just witnessed a great multitude of people just disappear, and they are still left on the earth? Also when Jesus comes to the earth riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16) the beast, (the antichrist) and the kings of the earth, and their armies are gathered together to make war against Christ in ( Rev. 19:19) That return is defiantly not as a thief in the night, so the return in the clouds when He gathers together His elect are the only verses that could fulfill the coming as a thief. Right? There are two different returns Ronald, the first one He comes in the clouds and True Believers meet our Lord in the air, in the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) The ones who are left ( Mt. 24:40-42) are the disobedient non-believers to face the wrath of God being poured out on the earth after Believers are taken. ( Jn. 3:36) ( Rom. 5:9) Tells us "we are saved from wrath through him" ( 1 Thess. 1:10) Tells us "even Jesus, which ((delivered us FROM THE WRATH TO COME))" ( 1 Thess. 5:9) Tells us "For God hath not appointed us to wrath" ( Eph. 5:6) and ( Col. 3:6) both tell us the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. The disobedient will be the only ones left on the earth to face the wrath of God. (Romans.1:18) Now the second return is riding a white horse when Jesus returns to the earth (with the church) to rule all nations with a rod of iron ( Rev. 19:15) Coming in the clouds to gather His elect, and Him riding a white are two very different returns.

STU,

When you say "We believe," who are you referring to as we? I also believe that Mary was the mother of Jesus, but I also know that Jesus was already in existence before Mary was even born.

Thank you for explaining what the term virgin means. That is my understanding also. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived, but after His birth, she did not remain a virgin.

There are some who believe that she remained a virgin her entire life and that she was consumed up to heaven the same as Jesus was, but there is no biblical support for that.