Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 301

Hey Jimbob,

Forgive me I am just trying to understand. Jesus comes for the Church after the great tribulation and carries it to heaven for the marriage supper then the wrath is poured out then Jesus returns with the Church. If the Church is taken to heaven, if it is pre, mid, or post-trib. the world would know it. If the wrath is then poured out while the Church is in heaven and before Jesus comes back to the earth how could that be as a thief in the night as in 1 Thess. 5:1-3 2 Thess. 2:1-3 Rev. 16:15

The second coming of Christ will be like a thief catching the wicked off guard in their oblivious state. Jesus second coming will be the first resurrection and those resurrected and those changed will be with Jesus in and around Jerusalem not in heaven while the wrath is being poured out. It culminates at the battle of Armageddon as we see as the vials are poured out with the seventh vial Rev.16:13-17 Rev.19:17-21 also Rev. 17:12-14.

If the wrath is poured out before Jesus comes back, could we say that Jesus is coming back as a "thief" after the world has just experienced his previous earth-destroying judgments? As Jesus said again Rev. 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

He comes as a thief so we are to watch until He comes, and He only comes once, and when He comes, He will set up His kingdom and He will be king over all the earth, Zechariah 14:9.

I know that is different, but this is what scripture says to me.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Jema,

Hebrews 11:8-10, 16 says that Abraham and those of the OT promises were looking forward to the heavenly country that God would bring them into.

Jesus, in talking to Pilate, said that His kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36. He went to heaven to prepare a place for us so that where He is we will be.

Therefore, I am not looking for an earthly existence upon His return, but an heavenly. He will make a new heaven and a new earth after He destroys the wicked and unbelievers, resurrects and glorifies believers and destroys the present heavens and earth. So, these new heavens and earth will be our eternal home. They will not be tainted by sin. Perhaps we will be able to transfer readily between heaven and earth as Jesus was able to do after His resurrection. So, there is a purpose for both the new heavens and new earth. We just do not know how God will us them concerning us and His glory in that age of eternity.

S. Spencer,

Sorry for your loss but we can rejoice that he is with our Savior. I will keep you and your family in my prayers this week.

And Jesus was often seen to associate with sinners and that is why He came to save us from our sins.

We believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and was born without sin like Jesus who was born without sin. She is called the Virgin Mary. The term Virgin means someone who has not had sexual intercourse.

STU,

The Bible does not teach that Mary was sinless. In fact, if you look at Luke 1:47, what Mary says in the content in Verse 47. My spirit celebrates in whom? God my Savior. She has an awareness already that she needs a Savior. That means that she has an awareness that she's a sinner and she needs a Savior just like everyone else does.



We have to keep that in mind about Mary. We don't want to put her down, but we want her put her in her place and realize that she is blessed among women, but she is still a sinner like you and I and needs a Savior.

Hello yes , I do believe that there will be many Christians alive during the very end days of these kingdoms of men . These Bible references , in the order I post them , seem very clear to me , Galatians Ch 3 , verses 15-29 , Genesis Ch 12 verse 7 , Genesis Ch 13 verse 14-17 ( notice God says 'for ever ' and remember that Abraham himself never possessed the land ) , Genesis Ch 15 verse 7 and Genesis Ch 24 verse 7 . Who are the elect of Matthew ch 24 verse 22 and Mark ch 13 verse 20 ? I believe that we Christians are the elect , made up of Jews and gentiles of all creeds from all generations , all of Isaiah Ch 65 but in particular verse 9 and verses 22+23 . If God's Kingdom is not on earth then what is Ezekiel from Ch 40 onwards talking about ? These are just the first references that come to mind for me , there are loads more which I'm sure you already know about . Eventually as you know ,God will be all in all, where this will be I don't know . One day we shall all understand everything , until then ? There are sites like this for us to provoke each other into deeper study which I think feeds our faith , as long as we can continue to be polite and respectful of each other then we should continue to provoke each other in Christian love .

Jimbob no offence but you keep saying that all the bible is the pure words of God...You are not realizing that Almighty God himself changed his words...God wanted a New Covenant....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah....The old covenant was precious and Holy...But it answers to the lesser light....Its only that New covenant that Jesus made to humanity via his blood that is the greater light...Jimbob its only Jesus that is the pure word of God...That New Covenant in his blood...The book in the fathers right hand that Jesus wrote with his own blood....If righteousness came by the law that old covenant...The written word then Jesus died in vain...Thats y Jesus is saying search the scriptures ( The written words ) in them you think you have eternal life but it is them that testify of me...Which is the H.G. That living word...The manchild that has to be born in us via the seeds of Jesus...Christ in you the hope of glory....Thats y we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed...Which liveth and abideth for ever...The living word as His words are spirit and life.... 2 Cor. 3:6...He has made us able ministers of the New COVENANT ( New Testament )...Not of the letter but of the spirit..The letter is a killer but the spirit is life...My words are spirit and life....which is that N.C...In his blood....Jim do you not care that Jesus shed his blood at Calvary for your sins and in so doing he made a New Covenant....Implying a living being has to be born in us...Which is a baby Christ the Child of Promise the H.G...Our new hearts and new spirits...Thats y the woman had to birth the manchild...which is the Kingdom...The multiplication of Christ...Unless ya receive the Kingdom as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Thats y he said blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when eh will multiply himself with his seed sown in humanity...Plz note the Kingdom does not come till the woman BIRTHS THE MANCHILD that is gona rule all nations.

Ronald Thank you for your reply. My understanding would be Post-tribulation, and Pre-wrath. When Jesus Christ comes for His elect, the church THEN the wrath of God is poured out on those disobedient ones who are left on the earth. The wrath of God will be poured out on the disobedient ones left on the earth the same day True Believers meet the Lord in the air to be taken to the marriage supper of the Lamb. ( Mt. 24:29-31) Tells us the Son of man will come in the clouds, it doesn't say He will return to the earth at that time. ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) Tells us we will meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds. Again It doesn't say He will return to the earth at this time. Now if we look at ( Rev. 19:7-9) We see the marriage supper taking place, THEN in ( Rev. 19:11-16) We see heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; this is when Jesus Christ will return ((to the earth)) and He is very clearly coming ((from heaven)) and He comes to the earth to rule the nations with a rod of iron, and He (treadeth) the winepress and fierceness and ((wrath)) of Almighty God. The word (treadeth) is #3961; it means a "path" to trample, tread (down, under foot) This will end the wrath of God on the earth and begin the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. According to your understanding Ronald, When would the wrath of God be poured out on the disobedient ones who are left on the earth as ( Rev. 16:1-2) tells us it will be? God Bless.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks

2 Peter 3:11-14.

We're seeing the same thing.

Sorry! I didn't make that clear and I'm always on the run so hardly ever proof read.

11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Verse 13 seems to be in contrast to verses 11and 12 and the scoffers

14) Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

What I was emphasizing is "why is that even a question posed to us when the focus is on the scoffers? It's like he is saying, "Why are you bothering yourself with this and then he goes on to say what should matter to you in the next verses.

We're not concerned with God's wrath as Peter says Paul mentioned in his epistles.

I will be in touch with you guys.

My brother went on to be with the Lord and I've been busy.

God bless.

Yes, Rick Christians worldwide should indeed pray for their country governments, and leaders. For the U.S,, (of which I am a citizen) we should be praying for justice to be rightly served and that those governing will do so wisely, honestly, and for the benefit of those they represent according to our constitution. We can certainly pray for God to set aright all of that which has been corrupted and used to oppress certain groups of people. We can pray for God to transform the hearts of millions in our country to believe in Jesus and follow His ways. We can pray for God to take corrupt governing officials out of office. We can pray for God to grant protection and deliverance for His people in our country from harmful government practices and the results of these legislative actions that diminish our constitutional rights. We can pray that God will keep us free to share the gospel openly with others and cause us to be strong and bold in the face of resistance to our free expression of religious faith.

We do not know what the immediate future holds in our countries. We can depend on God in every circumstance. We can also believe that God can turn what seems like hopeless circumstances around for His good and ours. As American citizens we can continue to pray for God's blessing to return to our country, for God to stir up people's hearts through a true revival. We can pray for God to make this country a great country and beacon of light to the world once again.

All is not lost in our countries. God can still do great and might things to reverse the wicked trends that we are experiencing. We should pray with faith for this and not give up on our requests made to God. The United States has the resources to alleviate so much need and suffering in our world. May God bless us with bountiful harvests and wise management of resources so we can bless our own citizens and also those across the world in need.

Rick Colombe I think its to late to pray for God to show this Nation favor. God has shown us favor, we have been Blessed as a Nation for more than 200 years since this once great Country became a Nation. The Word of God will be fulfilled as it is written. I believe this Nation to be mystery Babylon whose power will be taken away, it will be taken down in the Lastdays to make way for the rise of the anti-christ, which will be soon! God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for sexual perversions, look at what this Nation is allowing today, and not just allowing but pushing it on everybody whether they agree with it or not. We are living the Lastdays now and it doesn't look like things will get any better according to the Word of God. Be strong in your Faith, trust in Jesus Christ, He will not forsake those who put their trust in Him. God Bless.

Thanks

From your posts, please forgive me if I have misunderstood, you do not believe in a pre-trib. rapture, but you believe in a post-trib. rapture. Both views believe the Church will be taken to heaven just at different times. My understanding of scripture is when Jesus returns, He does not go back up to heaven, the first resurrection, the gathering of the saints/elect will be here on earth, in and around Jerusalem not in heaven, Zech. 14:4.

My understanding is this will be after the 3.5 years of the tribulation of Satan, the beast from the bottomless pit, and the false prophet. In my understanding, Rev. 11:15-19 is the trumpet sounding for Rev.19:11-15. That is why I understand Matt. 24:31 1 Thess. 4:16 1 Cor. 15:52 or Rev. 11:15 and Rev. 19:11-15 as the same event.

In Rev. 15 it starts with another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, the same wording as Rev. 12:1. A vision, and as the woman was not physically in heaven my understanding of Rev. 15 we cannot assume this is in heaven. We see the judgment of those who will be reigning with Jesus for the 1000 years described the same way as those in Rev. 15.

In Rev. 15:4 my understanding is God's judgments are made manifest, apparent as we see next the angels going out to pour them out. This will not happen until after Jesus returns and the first resurrection. Rev. 14 my understanding is a dropping of the sword, what I mean is the army is prepared and ready to proceed and the general drops the sword to go and we see the results of the battle in vs. 20, Isaiah 6:3 Rev. 19:15-18

Those who are in the first resurrection will be changed into their incorruptible bodies when Jesus returns, 1 Cor. 15:51-54. This will happen when Jesus returns but they are not taken to heaven they will reign here on earth with Jesus for 1000 years the rest of the dead will be judged, Rev. 20:11-15.

I know we differ; we do agree on no pre-trib., but I still do not see people being taken to heaven.

God bless,

RLW

The Words of the LORD. ( Proverbs. 30:5) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. (EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE) ( Proverbs. 30:6) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS) ( Jer. 23:36) Tells us "for ye have (perverted) the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God" The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to turn about or over, ((TO CHANGE)), overturn, pervert, preverse, to the contrary. Jesus tells us in ( Mt. 4:4) "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD" (God's Words are pure Words, not to be changed) We are told in many verses that we should not change the Words of the LORD. All modern versions have changed the Words of the LORD. The Nasb was completed in 1971. It was revised, or (changed) in 1977, again in 1995, and again in 2020! The Niv was completed in 1978. It was revised, or (changed) in 1984, and again in 2011! The Esv was revised, or (changed) 4 times in 2007, 2010, 2011, and in 2016! Does it sound like these modern version bibles are pure words inspired by God, unadulterated, uncontaminated, or sound doctrine? It doesn't sound like it to me either! It sounds like these modern versions which change their own words over and over are what we are warned about in ( 2 Tim. 4:3-4) and also in ( 1 Tim. 4:1) Modern versions are not Inspired by God! Truth matters. Blessings.

The words of the LORD. ( Ps. 12:6) The word (pure) is #2889; it means unadulterated, uncontaminated, clean, sound, to be pure, innocent or holy. The word (words) is #565; it means commandment, speech, something said. The word (purified) is #2212; it means to strain, extract, clarify, pour down, purge, refine. The word (seven) is #7651; it means seven times, ((to be complete)). (God's Words are purified seven (times)? A (time) in the Bible means 1 year. Purified seven (times) means purified 7 years, The King James Bible took 7 years ((to complete)) its translation) ( Ps. 12:7) The word (keep) is #8194; it means in the sense of clarifying. The word (preserve) is #5341; it means to guard, (to protect, maintain, obey) The word (ever) is #5769; it means eternity, always, for, ever (-lasting, -more, of old) In these verses God promised us He would guard, or maintain His unadulterated, uncontaminated Words for ever. Do you Believe God? I do!! If the KJB is God's preserved Word, then there should be verses somewhere in the Bible telling us how God preserved His Words forever. Right? ( 2 Peter. 1:19-21) Are those verses! He used holy men of God in v21 who (spake) as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The word (spake) is #2980; it means preach, say, speak (after) to "lay" forth, relate in words usually in a systematic or set discourse. ( 2 Tim. 3:16) Tells us "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" The word (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ. (The scripture that is inspired by God is sound doctrine, it is a holy document, not many documents as in many versions, but 1 translation) ( 2 Tim. 4:3-4) Tell us "For the time will come when they will not endure (sound doctrine)" What would this doctrine be that's not sound doctrine? (All modern versions are words of men, they are not inspired by God) When God preserved His Words, why would He change that. Truth matters. Blessings.

when the LORD JESUS comes it matters not who you are or what you are because HE will know and HE will say welcome bill come with ME or HE will say bill I know you not.I am believing that HE will say bill welcome come with Me because you believed in ME and know who I AM.

Brother Chris, thanks!

It's great to see you back. I hope you had a wonderful vacation. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. There is so much packed into that one verse ( 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Knowing that faith literally means persuasion, if I am to examine myself, the question I must answer is whose persuasion am I under? Do I have Christ (His Spirit) in me? If so, I belong to Him. And Paul says in Romans 8:14 that those who belong to Christ are being led by the Spirit of Christ. Factual statement!

My understanding is that in the early church, if there was a test given or an examination as to whether somebody is saved or not, there is only one criteria. Examine yourselves and test yourselves, whether Christ is in you, literally His Spirit.

The very next verse is interesting. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:6, "But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."



In fact, they are the proof that Christ was in Paul, because Christ spoke through him to them. They got saved and were growing in Christ through Paul's ministry.

So we need to examine ourselves. Whose persuasion are we under? Are we we being persuaded by Christ in us? If so, would His Spirit in us persuade us to walk away? Or are we under a different persuasion?

Again, it is great to see you back. May the Lord continue to bless you and your family abundantly in Christ Jesus!

Amen, yes that what falling away or depart means, in these last days. Only turn to doctrine of devils.Yes, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Jimbob, I believe the same thing. We are in the beginning of sorrows. Thank you for your response, God Bless

Does the Holy Bible say that Mary the mother of God was without sin?

Thanks brother Jesse for the great & important Truth that you have shared here: Salvation is all of God: He draws, He saves, He gives new birth, He secures, & He gives the sure Hope in this life & into eternity. I reflected on your reference to 2 Corinthians 13:5: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

This I believe was the position & concern of each of the NT writers, not just in calling out evident sin in the Church, but for each one to examine themselves whether they were even in the Faith. In some cases this was clear (as in 1 John 2:18,19), and in others such as Hebrews 3:12-14: "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end", a little unclear. The message here was for each one to encourage & counsel those being led astray by sin or deception, that they might turn back to holy living & not face the Lord's Discipline. But if they persisted, not holding their "confidence stedfast unto the end", it only showed that "they were not all of us", only displaying a show of godliness & religious experience, but inwardly knowing their deceitfulness & hypocrisy.

The Word is abundantly clear that the believer could never acquire or sustain his salvation by his efforts, rather, by the working of the Holy Spirit indwelling him ( Titus 3:4-7; Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:24,25). Unfortunately, alongwith the oft preached Gospel of salvation, i.e. 'from God & sustained by man', comes the rarely heard messages of 'life & power given to believers to know, to pursue & enjoy, which comes from the indwelling Spirit'.

It was nice to read your literal renderings of the verses you shared.

Adam Thats a good post. This could be one of those things people believe because its what they've been taught. ( 2 Thess. 2:3) clearly tells us there will be a (falling away) first. The word (falling) is # 646; it means defection from truth, (properly the state) [ "apostasy" ] forsake, divorce, (writing of) divorcement. These had to be true Believers who defect from truth and are given a writing of divorcement from the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you Adam. Truth matters.

TammyC Thats a really important question to ask. I honestly think we are much farther along in the Lastdays timeline than many Christians think we are. I believe we are living the time period called "the beginning of sorrows" in ( Mt. 24:8) and ( Mk. 13:8) right now. When the abomination of desolation stands in the holy place (Mt.24:15) and ( Mk. 13:14) for then shall be affliction, and great tribulation, ( Mt. 24:21-22) and ( Mk. 13:1920) which is the last 3 1/2 years but will be shortened for the elect's sake. I believe we are living ( Mt. 24:4-8) and ( Mt. 24:9-13) right now! I believe great tribulation will start fairly soon! Thank you Tammy for this post.

Ronald thanks again for your reply. You think ( Mt. 26:29) means the Father's kingdom, the kingdom of God will be on the earth? What about ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) v16 "the dead in Christ shall rise first" Where will these dead that rise first be taken? v17 Tells us "We which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them ((in the clouds)) to meet the Lord in the air". We meet Him in the clouds. ( 1 Cor. 15:50) Tells us "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" ( 1 Cor. 15:51-55) v52 "and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED) ( 2 Thess. 2:1) Now we beseech you brethren, by the ((coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him)) We are gathered together unto Him in the clouds. ( Mt. 24:29-31) v30 "and they shall see the Son of man ((COMING IN THE CLOUDS)) of heaven with power and great glory". v31 Tells us "And he shall send his angels with a (great sound of a trumpet) and they shall (GATHER TOGETHER) his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other". We are gathered together to meet the Lord in the clouds, we are changed because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, He returns FROM heaven AFTER THIS riding a white horse, so wouldn't it be logical that the ones who met Him in the clouds are the ones who come back to the earth with Him? Now on the fine linen? You posted 3 verses comparing them to ( Rev. 19:8) and ( Rev. 19:14) Sorry Ronald but those 3 verses are not saying the same thing. You posted ( Mt. 28:3) ( Jn. 20:12) and ( Acts. 1:10) But ( Rev. 19:8,14) both say (fine linen, clean and white) The same words are in these 2 verses for a reason. Every Word of God is pure. I believe it to be in context especially with the verses, (and events) being so close together, to see it otherwise I think is taking these verses out of context, therefore loosing the true meaning. ( Rev. 19:15) Even tells us He (treadeth) or ends the wrath of Almighty God. Blessings.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 6):

This is what the Bible teaches about salvation. The change in emphasis from salvation by God to salvation by man is part of the apostasy of the last days. The truth is, many today are told that they are saved because of some followed formula; but Jesus said believers would be known by their fruits, not by their human works ( Matthew 7:16).

He also said, in Matthew 7:21-23, "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of heaven; but the one doing the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? And in your name did we not cast out demons? And in your name did many works of power?' And then I will confess to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, the ones working lawlessness."

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 5):

Many scriptures were written to show believers that some among them, who professed to be Christians, were actually not saved. John wrote 1 John so those who were saved would know that they have eternal life ( 1 John 5:13). In this letter, he listed many evidences, so that salvation could be proven among genuine believers.

In 1 John 2:18-19, he writes, "Little children, it is the last hour; and according as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they were of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, in order that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

John is stating that those who are of the antichrist came out from the Christian fellowship. He teaches that the reason they chased after false doctrine and a false spirit, not staying with the fellowship of believers, is because they were never truly believers. They were never saved!

Sadly, the same is true today. There are many in our churches professing to be Christians, but who have no desire to hear or obey the truth of God's Word. Indeed, many so-called church leaders are not even teaching the Word of God from their pulpits, because they don't want to lose the numbers of people attending their services.

But the truth from God's Word still differentiates those who are truly saved from those who are just talking and acting like Christians, being devoid of the indwelling Spirit of Christ.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 4):

We also know from Scripture that no one can keep himself saved. John teaches, in 1 John 5:18 (as recorded in the oldest Greek manuscripts), "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God is keeping him and the evil one does not touch him."

John also states in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will never perish forever and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."

Jude states in his doxology in verse 24, "But to the one being able to keep you without stumbling and to set you before His glory blameless in exultation."

Paul in his writings emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit in Ephesians 1:13-14: "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."

He states again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Probably one of the most powerful Scriptures of God's keeping power is Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor any thing which has come, nor things coming, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The only way a person can be saved is by a spiritual birth from God; and the only way a person can keep his salvation is through the keeping power of God.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 3):

Paul writes on the same subject, in Galatians 5:17, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are opposing to one another; in order that you should not do what you want." These scriptures show that believers cannot be taken away from Christ by the flesh, because the Spirit of God is dwelling within to prevent that from happening.

Jesus Himself said, as recorded in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will never cast out." He goes on to say, in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day."

Also, in His prayer to the Father, as recorded in John 17:11-12, Jesus said, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given to me, in order that they may be one, as we are. When I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in your name; the ones who you have given to me I kept, and none of them perished, except the son of perdition; in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

I emphasize the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves, and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God. John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, according to Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 2):

In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person. Paul instructed, in Romans 8:9, "Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this one is not of Him." In Romans 8:14, he wrote, "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."

And again, in Romans 8:16, he instructs that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God." Also, in 2 Corinthians 13:5, Paul challenged the church at Corinth: "Examine yourselves, if you are in the faith; prove your own selves, or do you not know your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, except you are reprobates?"

John, writing in 1 John 3:24 supported this same understanding: "And in this we know that He abides in us, from the Spirit whom He has given to us." He repeats this same truth, although worded somewhat differently, in 1 John 4:13, "In this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit."

From the preceding scriptures, we see that salvation happens only when God's Spirit enters and remains in a person's spirit, thereby causing spiritual birth. Nothing in the Bible teaches that salvation is accomplished by the repetition of the Sinner's Prayer or through the performance of any other kind of human formula.

In addition to teaching that God is the sole source of salvation, the Bible also teaches that every saved person is kept by the power of God. Peter writes, in 1 Peter 1:5, that believers are, "The ones who are being kept in the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 1):

Over the last 40 years or so, emphasis on the ability to save has been shifted from God to man. As a result, the permanency of salvation has been called into question, because this approach to salvation emphasizes that believing certain truths can save a person and then that same person can subsequently lose his/her salvation by disbelieving those same truths.



However, the bible clearly teaches that salvation is based solely on God's Spirit coming into the spirit of a human being; and in so doing, causing that person to become a new creation, a new person. A person's experience of regeneration by the Holy Spirit is an act of God, not of man.

Biblically, the salvation process begins with God the Father. Jesus said, in John 6:44, "No one is able to come to me, unless the Father who has sent me should draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day." In John 3:3, Jesus says, "Unless anyone should be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

Consequently, if the Father does not draw a person to Christ, that person cannot be saved. It is only after the Father has drawn someone to Christ, that the Spirit of Christ enters into the spirit of that person and a spiritual birth takes place.

These same truths are taught by the Apostles.

Paul, in Titus 3:5 wrote, "Not out of works in righteousness which we did, but according to His mercy He saved us, through washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit."

Peter said, in 1 Peter 1:3, "Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One who according to his great mercy has regenerated us again into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."