Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 302

This is a question for those that side on the pre-tribulation rapture point of view. I am honestly asking this question, probably out of concern more than anything. What would it take, how far into the tribulation would you say the pre-tribulation rapture wasn't going to happen? Would it take: ( Mark 13)

12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Or

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Or

The Mark of the Beast being implemented?

Please think on these things, because our time is short. At the least, have a marker to when you'll be willing to accept things aren't taking place like you thought, and prepare your heart and mind for what is to come. In Christ, God Bless

Hello S. Spencer;

I am still going through what you have posted. I just have one comment for this post. In 2 Peter 3:11 the question is what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness? This question is qualifed by the phrase "Seeing then that all things shall be dissolved" and the phrase after (vs. 12) "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat."

Verse 13 says "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

So I am not sure why you answered the question of verse 11 with "NO!"

To me it is asking us to consider how we should think and live our lives knowing that everything we now know that exists will be destroyed in the day of the the coming of Jesus. We are not to value the things of this world as much as we are to value the things of God and what our inheritance is when Jesus returns for us. Verse 14 says "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found in Him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

So Peter is wanting us to be mentally and spiritually prepared for the coming of the Lord knowing His promises and staying the course of faith in Him.

But anyway, why did you say "NO!" it just seems like an out of place answer to the question posed.

I agree. 2 Peter Chapter 2

20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Like you've shown, Adam, there are many verses that warn a Christian to not fall away. It is possible, and it will be worse on them that have known the truth and turned from it, than to have never known it at all.

God Bless

Part 2

Jesus told His 12 at the last supper, Matt. 26:29 Mark. 14:25, He would not drink of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in my Father's kingdom, in the kingdom of God. This can only be either when Jesus sets the kingdom up for the 1000 years, or when all is made new, a new earth and a new heaven, but it would be on earth not in heaven.

If we use fine linen, clean and white to identify the Church as the armies coming out of heaven we see in scripture many times the angels appear in white, white linen, and pure and white linen, Matt. 28:3 John 20:12 Acts 1:10 Rev. 16:6 and many more, and the bride in Rev. 19:8 the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, is this just the righteousness of the Church or all the saints?

The earth is round and the gathering of the elect/saints will come from all over as a delegation meeting Jesus in the air as He is coming down to set up the kingdom as we see in Matt. 24:31. The armies in heaven are angels coming with Jesus the gathering will happen on the way down.

I know I probably did not touch on all, there are so many parts. I hope this shows some of my understanding, but I still do not see where anyone is taken to heaven.

Thanks for your reply, if we inspire each other in love to study it is good.

God bless,

RLW

Hey Jinbob,

Part 1

I do not mind one bit, I feel we are all here for each other. Revelation is to me hard, I feel some things have not been revealed and the events that were shown to John are not written in chronological order. Chapter 15 starts with a sign in heaven of the seven angels having the last plagues filled with the wrath of God.

My understanding is this is after the seven trumpets and with Matt. 24:31 1 Thess. 4:16 1 Cor. 15:52 or Rev. 11:15 and Rev. 19:11-15 shows Jesus returns on the last trump so Jesus is on the earth at this time with the ones in the first resurrection. I do not know of any scripture that says Jesus goes back up to heaven after He comes down to reign as King.

So, in Rev. 15:2 where and when is this vision John is seeing? Does Rev. 15:2-3 say this group is the Church or is this event the same event we see in Rev. 20:4 after the battle and Satan is locked up? Rev. 15:4 it is talking about all nations will come and worship the Lord. Is this not during the Millenium reign as in Jeremiah 3:17 Zechariah 8:21-22 Isaiah 2:3-4 and more?

Rev. 19:7-9 the marriage of the Lamb is come, does not mean at that moment it means all that must be fulfilled for it to happen has been fulfilled, the wife has made herself ready. So when will the marriage and the marriage supper happen? In Rev.19:9 it says "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." Is this only the Church? How are we to understand Rev. 21:9-27?

See Part 2

Thank you Hammer,

These verses are good to know and apply to our lives in Christ, too.

Adam I hear what you are saying....Very interesting...But satan is gonna sow a Tare in with the good seed the wheat...making us do all kinds of evil things..That y Paul was saying when i wd do good good evil is present with me....Paul was taken hostage by satan and his TARES...Even in the natural sometimes a soldier is taken hostage and the enemy makes him say all kinds of things publicly to his home country...He is brain washed, Thats y Paul was saying if i do something I do not consent unto its not I that does it but sin that dwells in my members...Oh wretched man that i am....Roman 7:16...We are involved in a war with satan....This war is raging in our minds thus war in heaven The tares against the wheat...With my MIND i serve the law of God but with my flesh the Tare the law of sin... Romans 7 :25 kjv..Paul was involved in a warfare...But Paul cd not fallaway simply b/c the Wheat is the H.G....Just b/c a soldier makes all kinds of derogatory remarks about his home country does not make him a traitor....Thats us, the Tares tries to take our MINDS but nothin can separate from the love of God.

...... Romans 8: 38 ...For i am persuaded that nothin can separate us from the love of God...Not life nor death nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor heights nor depth nor any creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God....But we must remain a good soldier and endure to the end...Even tho satan is gonna try very hard with his Tares to make us fallaway...As jesus said my father that gave them me is Greater then all and no man can pluck them out of my Fathers hands....Any way Adam this is my slant on falling away....Hope it helps ya a bit...Gbu Adam

Other verses referencing the "love of God". Eph. 3:19 "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God". John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love". 1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous".

Amen Hallelujah! Thank you for the good work you have done here.

My church thinks so well that we should be pulled away.

I see it like you and others here on the web. And bothered, not so that it gets on my nerves, but I pray that one day I can have the word. And can speak freely with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit and anointed by Jesus Christ. We must learn to use the spiritual sword, Amen.

They go astray all those who say this. Many fall asleep in this nighttime song, unfortunately.

Praising God for He gives us clarity and understanding and the right words! Thank you again dear brother in Christ I love you and everyone. We outside Israel are His buds instilled into the Tree and which the Lord Himself has grown. Amen

John 7 chapter.

I'd like to share some verses I've been noticing lately during my readings in regards to once saved always saved or not. Some verses appear to support it so I see why people believe this, but is that really what it means?

John 10:28 - neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What about followers who voluntarily left His hand?

Luke 15:4-7 - Jesus gives the parable of the lost sheep. But the sheep is still a follower. If the sheep denounced its Shepherd and left the herd to become a wolf, Jesus doesn't say He goes to rescue wolves but just the sheep in His flock. Verse 7 also adds a condition- "if" the sheep repents. People often skip that part. Maybe it's uncomfortable for some to humble themselves to genuinely repent and ask for forgiveness to God. I think this is what Jesus expects. It doesn't say the Christian can follow the world, sin as much as he wants, abort babies, use profanity, cheat, lie, steal, kill, abuse the body with drugs, and fill with lust, and not repent, not follow Jesus and be 100% fine. I see no verse saying that is all is fine if done intentionally. Seems like doing that is like spitting in Jesus's face and mocking what He did for us.

Heb 6:1 talks about repentance. Heb 6:6 says those who have "fallen away" can be brought back through repentance. If it wasn't possible for Christians to fall away then why does the Bible say that Christians can fall away? It says its a disgrace, like crucifying Jesus all over again.

Heb 5:13 says that some Christians are still living on milk like an infant and still not pursuing righteousness. Some in this forum have claimed that effort to be righteous is "bad" and apparently doing evil is good? That of course is from satan.

Heb 5:2 talks about Christians who have gone astray or "out of the way" of the path. If it were not possible to veer off the path of following Jesus then why does the Bible warn us not to do that?

Heb 4:1 warns Christians to not fall short of God's "rest".

Heb 3:19

Thank you gigi

Moses is the author of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These five books are considered the Torah for the Jews, or the Book of Moses, or the Pentateuch.

Hello S. Spencer, I just wish to add that verse one says

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him. I believe that this verse and verse two are both speaking of the same thing, the coming of the Lord and the gathering together of believers unto Him, and the Day of the Lord are all the same event.

Hammer63, you explained that perfectly. "For that day shall not come..." What day? "Our gathering together unto him". Until what? Until there is a falling away and the anti christ is revealed, and that is during the Great Tribulation. Jesus returns and gathers us together unto him after that.

I understand why some people might be afraid to go through this Tribulation, they have family, children, etc., but not preparing for it is dangerous, because deception seems to be what is warned about the most, not the beheadings. Jesus even said in Matthew 24:

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Who is the author of the book of Leviticus?

Thanks Brother Ronald and Brother Jesse.

I know I haven't seen anything posted or replied from him in a while.

I don't get to follow aa much as I would like to.

God bless you both.

Hey brother,

I think Chris is on vacation and said he would be away for a couple of weeks. We should see him pop up on here soon.

Hey S Spencer,

Chris is on vacation, maybe for another week or so.

God bless,

RLW

Lemme just ramble a bit plz....Rev.14 :6 And i saw a mighty angel flying in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach to all that dwell on the EARTH....To every nation and ppl and tongue and Kindred this is indicative of everybody...If i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me...At Calvary Jesus died for everybody....If ya read Jeremiah 31:34 its all inclusive I will know them ALL from the least to the greatest...But this is that N.C. The book in the right hand of the father that our Lord wrote with his own blood...And i wept much b/c no man cd look into it....Which answers to that secret Jesus spoke of....These things are hid ( a secret ) from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes which is the H.G. as that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit from the seed of the sower...She brought forth a man child that is gona rule all nations with his rod of iron...The word of God is that rod or iron that cannot be broken....We refer to the H.G. as a baby Christ simply b/c he has to be BORN in us via the seed of the bridegroom...Our new Birth..Thats y he has to know us Thus a new innerman...That New heart and new spirit...That Child of Promise via the seed of Christ the living word....ALL nations is indicative of everybody right here on this Beautiful earth.... Luke 17:21...Jesus is saying that the kingdom of God is gonna be with in you...He dwelleth with you but shall be with in you... John 14:17....Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Simply b/c mankind has to be married to Christ and bring forth fruit unto God... Romans 7:4 Which is a Baby Christ...That Child of Promise...Thats y Jesus has to be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thus the sower and his seed the wheat is a Baby Christ...Thats y Jesus was saying unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( the new birth ) you will in no wise enter there in...This was Jesus version of the Rapture which is in the SPIRIT right here on this Earth...As the Gift is the H.G.

Thanks Tammy. Those verses are often overlooked. A man recently referenced 2 Thess. 1,2 for a pre-trib rapture "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." but hasn't pondered verse 3 with the timing that believers will see the anitchrist.

"Let no man deceive you by any means:" for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Goodmorning.

Have anyone heard from Brother Chris?

Hi Dixon,

I thought I'd offer an alternative view to consider. Most here seem to be using reasoning that if something is omitted then it didn't happen. I generally disagree with that logic. If 100% of everything was documented from the Bible days there would not be enough paper or ink to even document it all. The general assumption is that because no other women are mentioned that none others existed, but is that true?

There are many other things not mentioned either, such as Adam and Eve going to the bathroom or bathing or hobbies for how they generally spent their time, but isn't it possible they might have done these things and it just wasn't mentioned? If I wrote a book on a period of my life, I surely wouldn't include everything, but just what I consider to be the most important parts. And any omission wouldn't mean I would be deceiving anyone.

Maybe Adam and Eve ate of other trees too and did lots of other activities that weren't fully documented. With that in mind, because Adam and Eve were already banished from the Garden and relocated... and due to it mentioning the Land of Nod Genesis 4:16 with virtually no introduction or explanation, I think its possible there were other people created and placed in other regions. I'm just offering this as a possible explanation and not claiming this is what happened.

For those Christians that do not celebrate "Easter" due to the pagan overtones, how do you celebrate the Lord's resurrection? What are some of the things you do? I know as Gentile believers we don't celebrate Passover, but since Jesus became our Passover, is it okay to celebrate Passover in a Christian way? Thoughts?

Dixon and Julius. In ( Genesis 1:26-27) God (created) man in his own image, in the image of God (created) he him; ((MALE AND FEMALE)) (created) he them. God (created) male AND female here. ( Gen 1:31) Tells us "And the evening and the morning were the sixth day" Now in ( Gen 2:1-4) v1 Tells us "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them" v2 Tells us "on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all the work which he had made" v4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. (All things were finished, and God rested on the seventh day) Now in the next verse, v5 we see ((there was NOT A MAN to till the ground)) in ( Gen 2:5-7) God had already (created) male and female on the sixth day, yet we are told in v5 there was (not a man) to till the ground. Now in v7 we see "And the LORD God (formed) man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. It wasn't until many verses later that God made Eve from one of Adam's ribs in ( Gen 2:20-23) v23 Tells us "she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man" Remember male and female were (created) the sixth day in ( Gen 1:26-28) Then God (formed) Adam of the dust of the ground after He rested the seventh day. And God (made) Eve from one of Adam's ribs so he would have a help meet. The man God (formed) from the dust of the ground (Adam) would be the bloodline that Jesus Christ would come through. There were many people on the earth by that time for Cain to find a wife from the sixth day (creation). Thats why the serpent, (Satan) beguiled Eve in an effort to corrupt that bloodline the Saviour of the world, (Jesus Christ) would come through. Read your KJB along with this and you should have no problem seeing the Truth. Truth matters. Blessings.

Hello, Julius

Genesis 5:4 says that Adam (with Eve) begat other sons and daughters besides Cain, Abel, and Seth. So, Cain must have married one of his younger sisters.

Doesn't answer the question. Where did Cain's women come from. Eve did not have daughters.

GiGi You also have made very good points in your comment. If we take the Word of God as it is written as Truth then the Bible is crystal clear the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation. And you are right again GiGi, we only want to show the Truth in Scripture, not in any way are we trying to start an argument. There are many parts of Scripture that are taken out of context to get the belief of pre-trib. One of those is to say Mt 24 is only for the Jews. One is saying ( Mt 24:29-31) is not Jesus coming in the clouds to gather together the church. Another is the one taken in ( Mt 24:40-41) is taken for judgment. All of these have been clearly refuted, one would only have to study our posts very little to see that. This is a very important subject in the Lastdays prophecies, especially for those who are expecting Jesus Christ to come first, the anti-christ will come first disguised as Christ which would then be a major problem for many pre-trib believers. Many will be deceived and accept the mark of the beast thinking it could not be the mark because Jesus hasn't came back to rapture the church yet. We are living the Lastdays now GiGi, that's why I keep posting on this subject. It is a salvation issue for all those who would be deceived by the anti-christ. As we have posted many times ( 1 Thessalonians 2:1-3) Tells us there will be a falling away before the return of Jesus Christ. The words (falling away) means a "writing of divorcement" meaning it is true believers in Jesus Christ who fall away. ( Rev 19:20)

Tells us people will be deceived into receiving the mark of the beast. Truth matters, God Bless.

Tammy I thank you for your time and knowledge in answering this question. May God bless you and Keep you!

Thank You



Jackie

Jimbob you do not realize it but you are in essence saying that the clouds and the air and wind are the gifts of God....But its only the H.G. that is the gift of God....But clouds/Air and wind is just simbolic language for folks that have that living water the H.G. The spirit.. the gift of God.. 2 Thessalonians 1:10... He is gonna be admired and Glorified in his saints simply b/c he comes in his saints....Not literal clouds....As the gift of God is the H.G....You keep saying we will meet him in the AIR...Buts not true, Air is just symbolic language for the Spirit the gift of the H.G...folks that live right here on this earth....Ya gotta realize that its only the H.G. that is the Kingdom of God....We cannot meet him in literal AIR...We can only meet him in

the spirit the gift of the H.G. is spirit not literal AIR OR WIND....Clouds are just symbolic for folks that have that living water the H.G. the Kingdom of God....But you keep making all these derogatory remarks of me not understanding that i am right...This Rev.11:15 kills any and all physical literal Rapture doctrine....As the Kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our lord and his Christ and he shall reign forever and ever...Right here on this earth...Thus there is no physical Rapture...We are caught away but only in the spirit the gift of H.G...As our God is spirit....Not AIR...Yes there are some scriptures that say that GOD is coming in the clouds...But the clouds are symbolic for folks that have the H.G the Kingdom of God....Thats y the sower of that good seed wants to sow his precious seed in our hearts....That the Kingdom might be right here on this EARTH....Defeating satan who is the god of this earth at this present time...k Gbu

Dear Stu,

We are to be loving and respectful of all people, but we are not to affirm their sinful lifestyles.

When we come across someone who insists that we accept them as a homosexual or any other orientation that is outside of heterosexual relations within marriage, then we must respectfully say that we cannot condone nor accept their lifestyle as being morally right before God. It is hard to say this to someone in our family (I have needed to do this) or a friend or co-worker. There are repercussions for going against what they are striving so hard to receive (acceptance and approval of their sin), but we must serve God and not men, and be willing to receive the mistreatment that follows for the sake of Christ.