Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 303

Jimbob, good explanation on this topic.

I would add that if Matt. 24 was only for the Jews and that time of history, then when did Jesus come on the clouds? If it is only for the Jews at the end of history, why does Jesus say that He is coming for His elect, which believers are called in Paul's epistles again and again.? ( 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1; and Peter in 1Pet. 1:1; 2 Pet.1:10 for example)

Along with the many,, many NT verses that state that the dead are raised on the Last Day, then it is then that Jesus returns and only then,

For me, I know that what the Scriptures actually say is true, not what people infer based on approaching Scripture with presuppositions that is evident in the teachings of Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, and other leaders of dispensationalism who spread this teaching far and wide, leading many to read into the Scriptures a pre-trib rapture that involves a secret semi-coming of Jesus and then another coming of Jesus at the end of the tribulation.

Scripture consistently speaks of Jesus' second and final coming and does not specify a 2 stage coming in any way.

You and I do not post about this to engage others in an argument, but we do so to encourage those who believe in the pre-trib rapture to re-examine Scriptures without the lens of dispensationalism (which is an artificial theological method of interpretation).

Through the years when I have read and considered passages that speak of Jesus' second coming, I had not ever heard of dispensational thinking nor covenant thinking, nor premillennial, postmillennial, or amillennial teaching. I was studying the Scriptures from the point of believing what was clearly, actually, and explicitly stated without adding any inferences.

But now that I have recently become aware of the various schools of though on this topic, I have tried to understand each of their methodology, reasoning, and Scriptural defense of their understanding of the second coming. Still learning as for now.

We are to love everyone. We are not to love sin. God hates sin and it is a disgusting evil.

The deception I see is people attaching their identity to their sinful desires then when they find someone that doesn't approve of their sin they then claim they are rejecting the person and not the sin. This is a common deceptive tactic pushed by a certain anti-Christian political group that loves injecting their "identity" into everything as part of their dogma. Then if you question it you are to be shamed for daring question someone's "identity." It's really clever that you can be lied to, told you must agree with the lie, then shamed if you so much as question the lie, or else you get publicly attacked, shamed, and canceled. Satan is hard at work.

Is ( Mt 24) prophecy for today, or just for the Jews? First we look at ( Mt 24:3) The question to Jesus was "Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be (THE SIGN) (OF THY COMING), and of the end of the world"? (THE SIGN) (OF THY COMING)? In ( Mt 24:29-31) v30 Tells us "And then shall appear (THE SIGN) of the Son of man in heaven" this verse also tells us "and they shall see the Son of man ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven with power and great glory". v30 is (THE SIGN) (OF HIS COMING) Jesus is answering their question. Now a look at ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) v15 Tells us "that we which are alive and remain unto (THE COMING OF THE LORD) shall not prevent them which are asleep" v16 Tells us "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" v17 Tells us "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air;" (This is the COMING that the disciples asked Him about in ( Mt 24:3) The #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse is very clearly connected to ( Mt 24:29-31) in many ways. ( Mt 24:30) (1) The coming of the Son of man (2) Coming in the clouds (3) ( Mt 24:31) there's a sound of a trumpet (4) There is a gathering together. Now we look at ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) (1) v15 The coming of the Lord, v16 The Lord descends from heaven (2) v17 We meet the Lord in the clouds (3) v16 with the trump of God (4) v17 caught up together, a gathering. These are telling us of the same event which is Jesus Christ, (the Son of man) (coming in the clouds) to (gather together) His elect, the church. ( Mt 24:39-41) v39 Tells us "so shall also the (coming of the Son of man be)" (So shall also) So when the Son of man comes v40 Tells us "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" The ones who are taken are those (gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds) at His coming. ( Mt 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation! Mt.24 is prophecy for all in the Lastdays. Blessings.

Thank you Gigi.

Hello again STU :) , homosexuality is a sin . We are all sinners , our sin might not be homosexuality but we are still sinners . Also , we don't always know the sexuality of everyone that we come into contact with, in the same way that we don't know each others sins . Only God knows everyone perfectly and that the includes all of our sins . Ultimately God is our judge , only He is righteous and can judge righteously . I have enough to do to try to keep myself in check without worrying about what sins others might be commuting , either openly or in secret . I believe that God loves everyone , He sheds forth His love to all of His creation every day , He is kind to everyone and that makes me believe that I should be also .

Zane I will pray for you and your wife tonight as I head off t bed.

Good read S. Spencer.

I will pray for your brother as I head of to sleep. Good night to you, too.

I hope this helps

2 Corinthians 5:8

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

And, read Luke 16:19-31 KJV, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. When a person dies, they are in "heaven" so to speak, but there is a gulf, between those who believe and those who did not Luke 16:26. In 1 Thessalonians 4 when it says:

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

By saying "will God bring with him", it means they are already in heaven, and when God returns, He'll bring the saints with Him.

Gigi.

Part 5.

Divine light was only found in the Holy Place. Only as worshipers in the present age pass by the cross and laver and come to Christ for light are they truly worshiping God. Christ is the Lamp unto our feet, and the Holy Spirit is the Light unto our path (see Psalm 119:105). Christ said, "I am the light of the world" ( John 8:12). The true believers alone know that to be true.

Believers today have been sent into the world as lights: "Ye are the light of the world" ( Matthew 5:14).We are merely reflectors, to reflect His light. Only as we walk in Him can we be lights in the world. A reflector must be where the light is, in order to reflect it.

End article.

Side note;

The number 6 is the number for man. Seven is the number of completion.

We're complete in Christ .

In the OT the Lord was In the midst of Israel.

In Revelation 1:12-13 we see the Lord in the midst of the Lampstand.

In verse 20 the Lord Identify the Lampstand as the seven Churches. Here is the complete Church bearing light on the Lampstand. Revelation 1:20.

This light also represents our witness. In Revelation 2:5 Jesus tells Ephesus he will remove their candle stick.

The light isn't meant to shine light on the the candle stick, It's meant to shine light on the one in the Midst. The Lord.

When done so you see what is revealed in Revelation 1:13-17.

You see Deity, Judgment, The word, Eyes of flaming fire that reveals and exposes.

Thanks for allowing me Gigi.

Good night.

Jema, I do read the bible for myself. Thank you .

I've been studying this recently. It's amazing. God's Word explains it all to a "T". God bless you for getting the word out.

Agreed Jema.

Yes, thank you so much. God bless

In the Holy Bible, we learn that Jesus tells us to love each other as He has loved us. My question is should we love gay people?

Gigi.

Part 4.

One technical point about the lampstand is of interest: It was a lightholder. The olive oil lamps were placed upon the lampstand. The lampstand supported the flame, but the flame revealed the beauties of the golden lampstand. The olive oil lamp is a scriptural symbol of the Holy Spirit. The analogy is striking. Christ sent the Holy Spirit into the world and He supports the Holy Spirit in His work, but the Holy Spirit takes the things of Christ and reveals them unto believers. As the olive oil lamps were supported by the lampstand and they in turn revealed the beauties, thus Christ is the foundation and support for the work of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit in turn reveals the things of Christ (see John 16:12-15).

The lampstand gave light in the Holy Place - it not being possible for natural light to penetrate there. The priest inside walked by divine light, and he had to go outside for natural light. True worship today is in spirit and truth; it is where the Spirit takes the things of Christ and reveals Him unto the believers. Walking by the light of reason, intellect, science, or the golden rule may be fine and proper for the natural man, but these never lead the soul into the place of fellowship with God. Natural light is the extent of these, and by virtue of the appeal to the natural man, they are indeed dazzling. The moths are attracted, and the light that draws them is their destruction. But the true worshipers behold only Christ, and this is never discerned by the natural man without the aid of the Holy Spirit. The beauties of Christ are never beheld by the natural man but are revealed only by the Holy Spirit.

See part 5.

Gigi.

Part 3.

The almond blossoms looked like wood but they were gold, reminding us of Aaron's rod that budded. When Aaron's priestly prerogative was in question, the budding of his almond rod established it. The almond rod, a dead branch, was made to live and to bear fruit. Christ was established as the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead. It did not make Him Son of God, for He was that from the eternal counsels of God. Resurrection only confirmed it. Aaron was the Godappointed high priest, and it was confirmed by resurrection in the dead almond rod. The resurrection of Christ, likewise, established His priesthood. Christ is our great High Priest because He became a man, partook of our nature, and "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" ( Hebrews 4:15). But the primary basis of His priesthood is His deity. The priest represented men before God. Christ is God who became a man, and it is now the God-man who represents man. The resurrection which declared Him to be the Son of God likewise declared His priesthood.

There were no measurements given for the lampstand of pure gold. That which speaks of His deity alone cannot be measured, for deity is beyond the computation of man. Neither can a tape measure be placed along that which speaks of God. Again, the priesthood of Christ, which is conditioned on the fact that He became a man, is made to rest on His deity. There is not recorded any incident in the life of Christ in the Gospels which does not instantly record His deity with every mention of His humanity, yet never confusing or fusing the two. In the shortest verse of the Bible, "Jesus wept" ( John 11:35), there is recorded a perfectly human incident in His life. It is a characteristic of humanity to weep; it is perfectly natural. But the tears were not dry upon His cheeks before He commanded, "Lazarus, come forth" ( John 11:43). And Lazarus came forth. That was perfectly divine - only Deity has the power over death.

See part 4.

Gigi.

Part 2.

The substance of the material for the furniture of the Tabernacle was different in the Holy Place. In the outer court, brass was the prevailing material since it had to do with the judgment of sin. In the Holy Place, gold was the material that predominated. This was no accident or chance occurrence. Gold was the only object that set forth in such a visible way the deity of Christ. Two objects of furniture, the lampstand and the mercy seat, were made entirely of gold.

The lampstand was the perfect symbol of Christ as the Son of God:

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ( John 1:9)

He was a "light of the Gentiles" ( Isaiah 42:6). Had He been philanthropic and had not come out of God, He would have been merely another teacher "that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge" ( Job 38:2). He would have only added another ethical system to the already multitudinous and multifarious systems, and He would have been but the harbinger of darkness "through philosophy and vain deceit" ( Colossians 2:8). But as the Son of God, He "is light, and in him is no darkness at all" ( 1 John 1:5).

The lampstand was handmade of beaten work and was highly ornamented. There was a central shaft with three branches on a side, making seven branches in all. Each branch contained three sections, each section being beaten into the shape of an almond blossom and a knop. On top of each shaft was an open almond blossom. On each of these were placed the olive oil lamps.

See part 3.

Hi Gigi.

That's certainly not something I found on my own.

Here's a article from J vernon mcgee.

Part 1 of 5.

The floor lamp is not a modern invention, but it is as old as the Tabernacle at least. The Tabernacle contained a floor lamp, and that is what the golden candlestick was in the Holy Place. We are substituting the more descriptive title, "lampstand," for the King James rendering of "candlestick." It was more than a candlestick, as we designate such. The blueprint for it is given in Exodus 25:

And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same. And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side: three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick. And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers. And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick. Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be one beaten work of pure gold. And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it. And the tongs thereof, and the snuffdishes thereof, shall be of pure gold. Of a talent of pure gold shall he make it, with all these vessels. And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

( Exodus 25:31-40)

See part 2.

TammyC. Post-trib, and pre-wrath. Post-trib means it is After the tribulation like we are told in ( Mt 24:29-31) Pre-wrath means the wrath of God will start the same day Jesus returns for His elect, the church. ( Nahum 1:2,5-6) ( Zephaniah 1:14-18) ( John 3:36) ( Romans 1:18) Then God pours out His wrath on those disobedient ones who are left on the earth. One shall be taken and the other left. This view is Biblically correct. I hope this helps. Blessings.

Yes Gigi, When we get to Numbers 8 we see the age of 25-50.

I believe at the age 25 the Levites is doing more observation and then by the time they reach 30 they're serving.

Today technology, entertainment and media has taken a hold on the young and perhaps worldly mature people as well.

Information is at there fingertips.

World wisdom is sought after and coveted.

2 Timothy 3:16-17. should be a nations focus.

S. Spencer,

I agree that much of what is proscribed by God to the Israelites concerning religious rites do point to Christ. I don't always pick up on this in some of the OT text, so I appreciate it when people can shed light on it for me. Feel free to do so , Steven.

And also, if you read something in my post that seems to be wrong or errant, please point it out to me soon after I post so that I can rethink and recant what I need to. I know I will make mistakes at times, such as what you pointed out about the lampstand. In my mind I thought I had seen one that had six branches per side, but when I re-read the text and looked at photos, the lampstand used in the tabernacle had three branches on each side of a single center lamp. So, I am glad you pointed that our. The significance of 7 lamps on the single stand is certainly of some significance. Can you help on this point?

Thanks S. Spencer.

Numbers Chapter 4 does give the number of Levites from each of Aarons living sons that were ages 30-50.

Yes, I agree that these men would be considered mature, not just physically, but also mentally, and spiritually able to understand the seriousness of their service to YHWH and be consistently responsible in carrying out what YHWH had laid out for each tribe of Levi to do concerning the transportation of the many items of the tabernacle.

In today's society, we should be able to assume that someone pf this age is mature and responsible enough to carry out the affairs of their life and to serve God as He calls each to the service He intends for each to do.

This is usually the age bracket when we are raising our children to adulthood. May God help all young parents in this wonderful and sobering calling.

Amen Brother Jesse

There's a lot being said in those scriptures and also these!

John 15:18-21.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

IF YE WERE OF THE WORLD, THE WORLD WOULD LOVE HIS OWN: BUT BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF THE WORLD, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, THEREFORE THE WORLD HATETH YOU.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

They hated the Lord without a cause!! They hated him for telling the truth! John 8:42-47.

Galatians 4:16-20.

John 15:26.

John 16:12-15.

It shouldn't be surprising when we see hatred from the world and those of the world gravitate toward one of the other and those that are Christ gravitate toward one another!

Here's why!

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 4:20-21.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 2:3-11.

If Christ spirit doesn't CAUSE you to Love one another then perhaps the world spirit and the father of lies stand in the way.

When the Spirit of truth is taken out of the way then the father of lies will be revealed.

God bless.

To be honest STU , I think that anyone who doesn't realise that abortion is murder doesn't want to realise that fact . If only we had better social services then we could place all these unwanted babies with couples who can't conceive and they could adopt these babies . Now though because of IVF and other reproductive sciences , many infertile couples don't feel the need or desire to adopt . If we make abortion illegal then we need to make all these artificial reproductive sciences illegal also . That way things should balance out with infertile couples adopting unwanted babies , all natural . One of the problems with human nature is that once we know we can do something , then we just have to do it . All this messing with God's perfect design of ways and means in His creation is vile to me . Medicines are there to alleviate suffering , not to mess with God's perfect design for life . We think we own everything and therefore have the right to mess with everything . Non Christians can't understand that we own nothing and have no right to anything , all we truly deserve is death . Thanks to God for life , life in Christ .

Winston4933 There were two Enochs born during that time period in Scripture. The first Enoch was the son of Cain in ( Genesis 4:17) The second Enoch was the son of Jared in ( Genesis 5:18) You can read of their family in those Chapters. Blessings.

Hi Winston.

Here in Genesis 5 you will find Enoch in the genealogy from Adam to Moses.

And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat ENOCH:

And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:

And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

I hope this helps God bless.

What is the difference between Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib? Isn't it the same thing?

Thank you Jimbob, blessings back at ya!

Hi John E.

Daniel 10:13 seems to suggest there's an hierarchy of Angels.

He we have Prince and we have a CHIEF Prince.

'But the PRINCE of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the (CHIEF PRINCES,) came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

There seems to be an hierarchy in that text alone.

I hope this helps

God bless.

Pierre1939 That mans Concordance interpretation as you call it, is the only way we can take any word out of the King James Bible and get the TRUE meaning of that word in the Original Languages of Hebrew, and Greek. The True meaning of the word not what we think the words mean. You are relying to much on your own interpretation of so many things, you have some truth mixed with many things that are not truth but twisted, it is confusion. The Word of God will speak for itself. You change many things in the Word to what you think it means. Sorry Pierre I really don't mean to offend you, but you are the one twisting Scripture and anyone reading these comments can see that. God is not the author of confusion Pierre, His Words are pure Words. ( Ps 12:6-7) ( Proverbs 30:5-6) The word (pure) is #2889; it means unadulterated, uncontaminated, sound. (How can you say anything is wrong with the TRUE meaning of the word (pure) in the Original Language?) If you believe God preserved His Word, then you should believe the Words of the LORD are (pure) Words! You are contaminating the True Words of the LORD. I honestly see no reason to continue a discussion with someone who thinks their words or interpretation of the Word is more important, or is more trustworthy or truthful than God's pure Words. Have a good day Pierre. Truth matters. Blessings.