Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 375

Judy, thank you for bringing these folks to our attention for prayer. I will be praying for each one over the days ahead.

S. Spencer

Sinless Perfection continued.

The forums I have read with this topic being discussed have shown that those who hold this position are inflexible about considering any other possible interpretation of Scripture than that which they hold to. They seem to be quite prideful and almost Phariseeical in reaffirming their sinlessness over and over again and accusing those who do not believe as they do as being advocates for sinning in believers (antinomianism) which is not what I believe nor most people who admit that we war against the sinful nature and, even though at times we fail and sin, we continue the fight against sin and rely on the power of God to strengthen us, sanctify us, and consecrate us to God more and more until we reach the resurrection or the return of Christ.

Thanks for your responses. I respect how you can help me in my understanding.

Hello S.Spencer,

I wanted to get back to you a bit on this topic. Perhaps you have some knowledge of this teaching that you can help me understand.

This teaching seems to teach that when we come to repentance and surrender to Jesus we will no longer be able to sin.

They teach that sin their is no sin in Christ and we are in Christ, no one who sins is in Christ.

They teach that the "old man" was crucified at the cross with Jesus (which is true positionally) but in actual time we were not alive when Jesus was crucified. So, it seems to me that Jesus death was efficacious for all time and when we come to faith in Him we can know that He made us a new creation spiritually. But we still have this corrupted self and nature, which was crucified with Christ so that it has lost its power to enslave us in sin. We can walk in newness of life and can resist temptation by the power of grace.

They say that anyone who claims to be a believer who sins is not saved and a false Christian.

They say that sinless perfection makes us righteous and holy like Jesus was in His earthly life.

They say that since our sinful nature is dead, it no longer affects us in any way.

They say that only those who do not sin anymore will enter heaven.

I am sure I will find out more of what some teachers of sinless perfection teach as I study it more. While many of the Scriptures they cite speak about living free from sin, they ignore so many other Scriptures that tells us to fight against the sinful nature because it wars against the Spirit in us and those Scriptures that say that we have not attained perfection and our bodies have not received the redemption promised in the resurrection when we will be made incorruptible and unable to sin anymore like Jesus.

I was hoping you may be able to give some clarity on this. I am not sure if it is worthwhile to refute this doctrine with someone who believes it because of what I have read on other forums on this topic. Cont.

Hello McFannin,

I will be praying for Danny and Jean.

Holy God bring Danny comfort and peace during this time that is so trying. Help Jean as she attends to Danny whom she loves so much. Prepare each of them for what lies ahead and cause them to know Your love, grace, and power in this time.

Dear Mark, I will pray for you.

Dear Heavenly Father, we come to You in the name of Jesus for the sake of Mark, our brother. Be gracious to him and provide him with adequate employment to meet his financial needs. Protect Mark from poverty and lack of daily needs. Deliver to Mark an upswing in his life situation that brings everything he needs to live day by day. Bless him abundantly in all ways. We trust You to supply Mark with what is needed. Amen.

Dear Matthew,

I will ray for you.

Heavenly Father, Matthew is facing opposition in his family because he is following after You. We ask that You strengthen Matthew to be give himself over to You for Your glory and love You more than his own life or his family and their approval.

Help all of us walk the way You call us to walk and seek righteousness in our inward parts through the cleansing work and power of the Holy Spirit and Your word. We ask that we agree with the Spirit that the blood of Jesus washes us clean and empowers us to live holy lives in this sinful and wicked world. Set us all apart from the ways of the world for Your glory. Give us boldness, courage, and conviction to pursue the life You call us into as followers of Jesus and children according to Your promises.

Keep us from falling into sin and ways that lead us into temptation. Deliver us from all evil. Thank You for all the gracious gifts You have given to us according to Your grace and mercy and love. Keep us in the way eternal, forever and ever. Amen.

Hello David. I hope that Jessica and Addy are feeling better. I will continue to pray for you and your family.

Hello Rick, I will keep your niece in prayer until you report back to us after her surgery for an update. Thanks for informing us of her need for prayer, healing, and successful surgery.

Is.2:1 "Conclusion"

(Continued from the previous post)

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."(Is.42:8)

Coming back to Isaiah we have the glory of God expressed in terms of the Law, which is the truth. I am the truth". So we need look at the truth expressing 'that God may be all in all" fulfills the ministry of Reconciliation by Jesus Christ. "Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.:(Is.8:18). So the clause in v.2 "and all nations shall flow unto it" is to be understood as referring to the Throne of God and of the Lamb.

"Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made/And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not." Here we have judgment about to visit Israel as we have in our times culture wars and super rich treating themselves as cream floating in the cauldron. "this city is the caldron, and we be the flesh." (Ez.11:3). Those who makes idols of men take glory in the worthless " and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth./Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?"(Is.2:21-22)

Those who do not abide in Christ as many branches to the true vine may say they are justified and saved by faith. But their glory is in their idols. God is not fooled by their professions when they glory in their worthless gods and not in the true God. "And theLordalone shall be exalted in that day./And the idols he shall utterly abolish." (vv.17-18)

Bible Study- Is.2:1 Conclusion

"The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem."(v.1)

The prophet tells us specifically that the word concerns Judah and Jerusalem. Nevertheless we do not take it at face value. The Spirit invites us to compare spiritual with spiritual. Let us compare the first chapter and it says itis a vision a burden. ("The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz"-Is.1:1) It is similar with the Revelation, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, ...and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." (Re.1:1)The messages to the seven churches is of the same value as the vision of Isaiah and in chapter what Isaiah says in the key verse is equivalent to this verse "I, John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation.(1:9) Thus God places a burden on Isaiah which by repeating in the next chapter places it as the testimony of Jesus Christ,- ("Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,-1:2) The key verse is the testimony of the Son.

We have also another example in the book of Daniel. Compare the v.1 from ch.7 and ch.8. One is from the Father and the second is from the Son, and the tag Three tells it all. "In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first." (Dan.8:1) Literal meanings give us only in part and it is not the truth. "In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon" in 7:1 was not for the sake of glorifying the king of Babylon but to tells us from his authority came from. The Spirit has warned of the glory factor in the God document. "

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."(Is.42:8)

Coming back to Isaiah we have the glory of God expressed in terms of the Law, which is the truth. I am the truth". So we need look at the truth expressing 'that God may be all in all."

Is.2:19 "Arise O Lord"

"And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of theLord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." (Is.2:19)

We saw an earlier instance where the verse 11, from Isaiah Ch.2 being repeated in v.16. These are not left in the narrative by any accident but the Spirit warns us to heed the Law from Zion is indeed from God the Father as the word going forth from Jerusalem is from the Son. So Jerusalem and Zion as alienated to the nation of Israel for pride and violence is a lie perpetuated by the Synagogue of Satan. How often Bible scholar by approaching the passage literally weaken the force of the Spirit's thrust? God's Will is clear and his Holiness shall not be treated glibly with doctrine's of man. Ministry of reconciliation of the Son having completed on earth must leave the sinner of Zion to their own devices till the terror of the Lord strike them and they turn to Him. In that day a fountain shall be opened for their cleansing. Let the sinner beware is the focus here.

God gave them a glory of 'his back parts' so setting Moses in the cleft (Ex.33:21-23)was one such hint. In Re.6 :12-17 we have the wrath of the Lamb is mentioned here specifically.

"Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him./As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God./But let the righteous be g"lad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice. ( Ps. 68:1-3)

"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"(Is.33:14) Jesus warns the church, "and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."(Re.2:9)

Is.2:11 "Glory of the Lord" (2 of 2)

The Spirit by repeating the verse 11 is setting the authority of his Son. The Lamb slain as an emblem was a sign of the everlasting covenant in the divine Will of God. The Throne of god and of the Lamb now inaugurated is a proof that the ministry of reconciliation fulfilled the terms of the covenant so the Law has a body and God is all in all. This is only one part.

"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low." This haughtiness of men caused the law of sin abound. This law along with Satan the father of lies has to be done with as the Son conquered death. This was epitomized by the prayers of saints."And golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." This was in safekeeping of the Father. This explains why we have in this chapter the same verse repeated in v.17 from two stand points of the Father-Son relationship.

Opening of seven seals presents us the four riders of which the first rider ("and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer,"-Re.6:2) we meet again in Ch.19. The armies that followed the Word of god fulfills what the Lord God promised the Son."The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies."(Ps.110:1-2).Wars pandemics, famines are all perpetuated by the haughtiness of men, so the the son of perdition, the beast shall appear again and again. At these are marked by one characteristic:"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (Re.13:5-6).Even so the beast and the false prophet are consigned to the lake of fire. (Re.19:20). Thereafter hell and death which only tells that law of sin has been done with.

Is.2:11 "Glory of the Lord" (1 of 2)

"The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day."

In continuation with the passage of Is.2:1-4 which is when the last enemy death has been finally put down, there shall be no more death. The emblem of the slain Lamb reveals the Lamb having a throne, a body which is called New Jerusalem. The word forever settled in the heaven is the Law, superseding all other laws.

In the last days we have the Law going forth from Zion 'and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." What does it mean where god is all in all? The answer is given in this clause, "and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day." It is the glory of the body which is New Jerusalem.John annotates the passage of Isaiah, "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it./ And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof./And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:"(Re.21:22-24)

One peculiar feature is that the key verse is repeated again word for word in v.17. The Spirit is referring to the Lamb who was prevailed to open the book bound with sven seals. "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth./And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."(Re.5:5-8) Here the 24 elders worship him. " the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." They were memorial of the body prepared before for the Son and they carried the prayers. Do the prayers of saints go unanswered? Oh no!

Is.2:1-4 "Zion and Jerusalem"

"For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

In the last days there comes a point when wars shall cease. The psalmist says of death,"O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them."(Ps.9:6) Death is the last enemy which has been finally put down, and it is of life, "I am the Life" aspect that Prophet Isaiah here speaks about.

"But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment." Ps.9:7).

In the light of this we need look at the Throne of God and of the Lamb as the focus here.(Re.22:1)

After death has been overcome the emblem of the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world (Re.13:8)is replaced by the word of the Lord. Jerusalem is no longer if the old but the body of the Lamb himself. God all in all. In short the passage from Isaiah quoted above has to be set alongside this verse, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."(1 Co.15:28). There is no more schism of the Father Son entities where, the Father signifying divine Will and the Son as the fulfillment of his eternal Mind have been forever reconciled. Thus the Ministry of Jesus Christ has thus concluded.

Zion mentioned as the stone (Is.28:16) has become a mountain and it resonates the King's dream as interpreted by Daniel to which we shall come in another post. Similarly the stone refers to this event, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."(Re.18:21)

S. Spencer,

I will get back to you later. The workers are here to do more work on our home repairs. I hope your day goes very well.

Good morning, S. Spencer,

I have read some of the teachings of some preachers of sinless perfection or complete sanctification.

Some of what they say is truly appalling. Here are some of these false teachings.

1) If one reaches sinless perfection and then sins they will lose their salvation. (This is senseless. If one is perfectly sinless, then they would be unable to sin, so why would a preacher say that one who has reached this state can sin?)

2) They say that the blood of Jesus is within us and therefore keeps us from sinning. (I do not find this teaching in the Scriptures). The cleansing blood of Jesus is a forensic action. It is done from the outside (from God) into us (the receiver). We do not have ownership of the blood of Jesus. It is always His. When we come to belief in the gospel and put our faith in Jesus, Our sins are removed and we are cleansed because He shed His blood for us once and for all.

3) They say that our sinful nature was removed from us when one reaches sinless perfection. (This is true in the resurrection, but not so as long as we are in this "body of sin". We are told to put to death the sinful nature by walking int he Spirit but Paul clearly teaches that this is an ongoing slaying of sin in our life by the power the Holy Spirit supplies. We are to put to death the sinful nature in us by walking by the Spirit. Does anyone ever completely walk by the in the Spirit 24/7? If someone has reached sinless perfection are they now unable to sin, as some say, because the old man is obliterated by the blood of Jesus? If so, temptation would not cause a struggle within them because the sinful nature is dead. Yet, they do speak of temptation being a challenge they must fight against (which is true of any believer, not just the select "elite" who believe they are in a sinless state.)

4) They say that they no longer have a sinful nature because of this complete sanctification. (Yet their bodies are still againg and deteriorating towards death.

Ep.2:14-18 "Middle Wall of Partition" (2 of 2)

Here we shall look at Ze.3:1-3

"And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him./And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"

The High Priest Joshua represents the High Priest of our Profession. Joshua, God our deliverance is a Hebrew variant of the name Jesus. (He.3:1). Satan is resisting the man as he did with Michael over the body of Moses.(Jude.v.9). Jesus did no sin and knew no evil so Ministry of reconciliation here as a substitutional symbol.

"is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" refers to the great tribulation and the 144,000 representing the 12 tribes so martyrdom does not distinguish between the Jews and the Gentiles.

"Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel./And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment./And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments." (vv. 3-5) Here are two verse for meditation:

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels."(Is.61:10)

"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified."(Is.61:3)

Ep.2:14-18 "Middle Wall of Partition"(1 of 2)

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us."(2:14)

Up Down

This ministry of reconciliation is across while what we considered under 'the other sheep' ( John 10:16). The worlds of the Spirit and the body were reconciled up and down. "The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies". Then the question arises what is 'the rod of thy strength'? "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations." The Word of God prevails over his enemies. These events are given in Re.19:13-18; Ps.110:2

Here we have even unto the world which is length and breadth of the earth. "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." All power given unto the risen Christ covers both heaven and the earth. That explains the great army of saints following the Word of white arrayed in white.(Matt.28:18-20)

Across

St Paul refers to the Gospel of peace between the Jews and the Gentiles, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;/And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross" (vv.15-16) The cross is the focus while the sword is the focus in up and down.

Time of the Gentiles

This occurs on the earth since the time tag of 42 months establish the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. "for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." Jewish diaspora in waves under Assyria, Babylon and Rome are referred as the time of the Gentiles.(Re.11:2). What occurs in Palestine in our times falls under this heading.

The 144,000 who are sealed in place of 12 tribes are neither Jews nor the Gentiles but martyrs.(Re.7) "is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" (Ze. 3:3)

Ecclesiastes 7:29 KJV: Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

We see similar references to God's creation of man such as in Psalm 139 and it seems clear that there is nothing wrong with God's design at least in how it was originally intended. Therefore even with the fallen nature due to Adam's sin that we all inherit even unregenerate man is responsible for his actions which are contrary to a nature in which "God has set eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Man originally was made in the image of God; now it may be argued that we bear some resemblance to what we were originally but now we are also in the image of man; that is of the physical appearance of our parents.

Another thing we must consider is how the great prophets all responded in the presence of God. We can examine Isaiah 6:5 as well as the Prophet Ezekiel and Daniel and John in Revelation 1. Even John recognized he wasn't worthy to open the seals and wept ( Revelation 5:4). Keep in mind that this was the Disciple closest to our Lord when He was physically on earth but he realized that only Christ was worthy. We therefore have value because of Him; it is His righteousness that gives us that.

That is why I prefer to view His righteousness as coming from the inside out; not as some cloak over us. There is indeed His perfection in a believer but also the vesiges of who we were even if in actuality not who we still are in light of the promised glorification. Again; only a TRUE believer can claim these promises; or more accurately can have Christ claim to be His own.

I get the sense that some who claim never to sin again think that they can be in God's presence without being flat on their faces. Going boldly into His presence still involves humility and is expressed by an intimate communication and fellowship between BOTH parties.

I am sure to start a fire on this one; praying these conversations can be edifying.

1 John 1:8 states "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Such a passage should be enough to convince someone of the fact that there will always be the potential to sin. The first thing we should point out here is that even without any outer manifestations of sin man has a sin nature. I believe it is scriptural to say that at the point of salvation we are as Galatians 2:20 states "crucified with Christ". If we are truly saved we can theoretically continue after the time of our salvation to live without sinning but the pattern of living in sin is still deep in our minds. That nature therefore must meet resistance and a believer is therefore sensing that he is "grieving the Spirit" ( Eph. 4:30-31). These verses show one is sealed indeed until redemption (by death or rapture); but that we can still do things displeasing to God.

Another thing is the use of the word perfect. Matthew 5:48 shows how Christ commanded on the Sermon of the Mount to be perfect. This was in reference to agape love; that is loving your enemies as well as your friends; in other words the opposite of hypocrisy of the Pharisees in particular. I would agree that we are called to live out our lives in total submission to the Spirit which we all fail on but we are starting to be progressively sanctified as believers. We must be cautious also not to assume our legalism is attaining any righteousness; however. Loving our brother is stated in 1 John as an imperative as well; if we show disdain because of any sin in their lives in the flesh we are sinning ourselves.

Furthermore; we have the verse in Genesis where it states that Noah was "perfect in his generations." ( Gen. 6:9). This does refer to he being the only true worshipper of God (and probably his family) as opposed to those who missed the boat; but in context it likely is not biologically corrupted as the offspring of the Nephilim which was likely everyone else who missed the ark.

We can do the right thing at the wrong time and it falls short of perfection.

We can do the right thing with the wrong heart and we fall short of perfection.

TO BE PERFECT YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE BLAMELESS.

1 Corinthians 8:9-12 is another scenario to consider.

We often think of the things we do wrong as sin.

What about the things we don't do right or good? Consider James 4:17.

Here's our goal.

Galatians 5:25-26

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Let's see if we are perfect in this using Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Here's a list of the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21.

( Most of these we can claim on the surface but God judges the heart.)

Are we PERFECTLY blameless in not doing any of these in our hearts?

THOSE ARE A LIST OF THINGS A CHRISTIAN SHOULDN'T BE DOING. ( If we are doing these we are sinning.)

Christians are known "BY" there Love for one another and should be barring fruit.

John 13:34-35.

1 John 4:20-21.

Matthew 7:15-16.

Let's use Galatians 5:22-23 to see what we should be doing. "PERFECTLY since our focus is on the ability to be perfect in these natural bodies.

love,

joy,

peace,

longsuffering,

gentleness,

goodness,

faith,

Meekness,

temperance.

IF YOU ARE NOT DOING THESE PERFECTLY "FOREVER ON! YOU ARE NOT PERFECT OR BLAMELESS.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17.

God bless.

Hi Gigi.

This amazingly started on a previous post where Paul was said to not be saved or atleast "not yet"

Paul said he was saved. If he didn't make it we're in trouble!

Paul said he was a master builder, and he helped lay the foundation which we are to build on.

Paul said a crown was laid up in heaven for him. 2 Timothy 4:7-8.

We have faults in our walk down here on earth tho we thrive for perfection.

Our thriving is evident we are not perfect. Another way we know we're not is that we die.

God requirements is perfection. If you ever sinned it's already to late if you feel you can come from under the atonement of the LORD.

We're left "Naked" without "CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS"

The Idea that you and I can be wrong about any matter suggests that we are not perfect.

How could this same corrupted person that struggle "WITHIN" judge anything to correct it to a degree he or she cannot reach? ( God's Holiness that we cannot fully comprehend)

Ignorance is no excuse!!

Only given an earnest of the Spirit can we fully comprehend the Holiness of God? No!

Romans 3:23-25 is where we stand.

God bless.

Ze.13:7-9 "Shepherd and the little ones" (2 of 2)

Day decreed for the Son has two divisions: unto this day and that day. "This is your hour" concerning Israel has similarly two divisions namely the power of darkness referred to the first part and "a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness" shall be marked by the appearance of the Son of man. " Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen"(Re.1:7) It opens the eyes of all left behind. This passage refers to the same hour, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,/Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters./And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen,"(Re.14:5-7) The name Babylon Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt are interchangeable.

Ze.13:8-9 refers to one third a remnant. The command number Three refers to the Son. "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God." This is incomplete without mentioning thsi: "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."(Re.8:1)*

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."(Re.16"19)

* Half an hour refers to the left behind church stepping into the breach.Re.7:3-8, 14) the remnant

Ze.13:7-9 "Shepherd and the little ones" (1 of 2)

"Smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones"(v.7.b). This prophecy concerns Jesus Christ who declared,"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."( John 10:11)

Having fixed it we shall call for the peripherals, and the chapter is referring to a day, "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David" (13:1)

This day refers to the day decreed for the Son. "I will declare the decree: theLordhath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."(Ps.2:7) In that day is similar to the expression, unto this day' which refers to the earthly ministry. And this verse tells us that having finished his work he is seated on the right hand of the Most High, ("TheLordsaid unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./TheLordshall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies "-Ps.110:1-2) that day refers to the latter days and a fountain shall be opened for Israel. In the vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun indicates Jesus Christ has been taken to the throne so God sends the rod of his strength out of Zion. In short it is part of the unfinished ministry of his Son.

This day decreed for the Son is further subdivided so when Jesus tells his captors "When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." ( Luke 22:53) we can safely infer that Prophet Zechariah was referring to this moment. God the Father did not spare his own Son for our sakes. Consequently scattering the sheep was very much part of divine Will.

"I will turn my hand upon the little one" in primary sense refers to the nation of Israel. Jesus had foretold, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate./For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth,"(Matt.23:38-39)

Oh, AMKCH

Such losses. I will pray for you and your children, your grands, and their parents. Thanks for sharing with us this painfulness. Know that many will be praying for your requests here.

Hi Jeremy, Jesus has revealed Himself in Scripture. Reading and taking in the Scriptures into your being is the best way to get to know Jesus in Truth and Spirit. Don't expect an "appearance" of Jesus to prove to You who He is. He does not do this very often and does not give such an appearance just because someone seeks it. He does in His infinite wisdom do such things, but most often to people who are not seeking such and experience. We have the Holy Spirit in us, the Comforter, as Jesus said. He brings us to the Scriptures to instruct us on the truth about God, Jesus, and Himself, as well as the truth about ourselves.

Jeremy, I will pray for you, as requested. I know that God will lead you in the right path to grow in knowledge of our Father and Jesus Christ.

S.Spencer,

Part 2

As long as we live in this world, we have corruption in us in actuality, which is why we will always need Jesus as our Savior and Advocate (Mediator, High Priest) He intercedes for us. Why would He intercede for us if we are completely pure and righteous?

It is true that His Blood judicially brings forgiveness and cleansing to us when He shed it once and for all. But in time, His Blood continues to act in us in the same way whenever we sin and confess our sins to Him., whether known sins or unknown sins. David called on God to search him and show any wicked way in himself. He knew he did not know all of his sins and the corruption of his propensities and faults and weaknesses.

To determine that these are not sins is unbiblical. But those who advocate for sinless perfection redefine sin in order to claim to not sin anymore. They do not fathom the vast perfection of God compared to His corrupted creation (which needs to made incorruptible in the life to come). God is completely without corruption of any kind. No human can honestly say that or , as you said, we can enter heaven in this present flesh and blood body or even have no need to be changed in the resurrection. Also, those who advocate sinless perfection have a narrow and simple view of sin ignoring the total scope of what it means to sin or be sinful. Falling short of the glory of God is ANYTHING that is corrupted be it life, health, thinking, choices, actions, motives, and failures to do what we should do.

Jesus is said to have no guile in Him, which means that He never had any wrong motives, no selfish thoughts, no emotions fueled by sin, no misspoken words, no lack of goodness. He was and is always PERFECT in EVERY way.

Although some who advocate sinless perfection will say they do not claim to be as perfect and sinless as Jesus and that they are perfect like Adam and Eve before they sinned, the fact that we have sinned at all does not make us like this state even after we are saved

Yes S.Spencer,

We are perfect because we are "in Christ Jesus" by His saving work. We are never perfect due to avoiding sin actions. Our whole being is corrupted by sin. It tempts us in our sinful nature and then this nature produces sin in us. ( James 1:13-15)



And every good thing we do is but filthy rags before God, who alone is perfectly holy and righteous. Every good thing we do is tainted by our sinful nature. But even so, we do not give up on fighting against the sinful nature within and also desire and work at obeying God. But this is not done in our own strength, but in the power that Jesus had to live a perfect life and that raised Him from the dead that we have at our avail through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Our holiness comes from Jesus' righteousness PERIOD. We on our own do not have the righteousness of God that is acceptable to Him. We receive this righteousness from Jesus' and believe what is said in Scriptures that His life, death, and resurrection cleanses us from all iniquity so that we can stand before the Father without sin, but it is always Jesus' sin-free and incorruptible character that merits us this place of right standing before God.

While it is true that positionally we are sin-free in Christ, in moment to moment living we are not. As some say, we have faults, shortcomings, weaknesses, errors in our thinking and judgment and actions that are somewhat automatic. This is the corruption in us which God never has. He alone is perfect and pure and righteous and holy ALWAYS. Though some do not see these propensities as sin, I do, because of what is said about the heart of man being deceitfully wicked above all things and desperately so, and without cure (by man) to paraphrase Jer. 17:9. No one can truly know how wicked our own heart is, only God knows. So, anyone who says that they are sinless and do not sin are deceived, as Jeremiah says.

I guess I need to go to part 2.

2 Ti.2:4-5 "Word of reconciliation" (2 of 2)

As a teacher of the Word the Spirit exhorts anyone who does interpreting the word to keep note of the thrust of his argument. "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell." Comparing apples with pears are for the glory of man and not for God."Instruction in righteousness" is fighting according to the rules. 2 Ti.3:16

"All things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col.1:16-19)

Here is another example. Jesus Christ warns the Laodicean church,"And anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see".(Re.3:18) Ministry reconciliation of Jesus we have in this healing at Bethsaida, of a blind man,"And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking./After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." ( Mark 8:24-25). If foolish shepherds use the word of God to bilk their congregation we can appreciate this comparison spiritual with spiritual. Christ's warning to the church holds true even now.

Coming back to Jesus as the Good shepherd we have "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."(Ze.13:7). What reconciles it to Jesus is the preceding verse. "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." These wounds did not make him retaliate but he cried at the cross. "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."( Luke 23:34). The word of reconciliation does its perfect work with word of his grace which as St Paul says, "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."(Ac.20:32)

2 Ti. 2:4 "Word of reconciliation" (1 of 2)

"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier."

This quote from St Paul shall explain what he means by the word of reconciliation. St Paul explains his ministry is from God,"all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation" so no passage stands alone but it casts its spiritual analogue so it is the fulness of Christ that we look into it. The revelation that the Spirit had set him apart as he confesses,"To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood."(Gal.1:16; Ac.13:2). He was called to be a good soldier for Christ. So his ministry of reconciliation is in lock step with Jesus Christ's ministry of reconciling the other sheep, "and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd" into one fold fits with one another.( John 10:16)

Elisha's life presents us with the world of the Spirit which requires eye of faith than the normal faculty of vision. "Behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?/And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them./And Elisha prayed, and said,Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And theLordopened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha." ( 2Ki. 6:15-17). Ministry of reconciliation is about fighting by the rules.(2 Ti.2:5) These rules are meant to make every believer fighting fit. So when Jesus told his disciples," and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."( Luke 22:36) we can put his word in proper perspective. The sword was meant as his badge of office. This is the word of reconciliation, comparing the spiritual with spiritual.