Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 53

I will David.

Matt.18:35 "The Spirit of life"

"So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

The Lord of the servant in the parable showed compassion as blessings of God come down from the greater to the lesser. Compassion as a facet of holiness of God is another manner love is irradiated as the cut diamond throws up several colors each from one single source of light. God as the Father of lights manifested so Jesus Christ is the true Light is the prism that provides us the glory of God into our individual spiritual space. The servant who hid his one talent did not detract from the glory but proved he was worthy of damnation.

The rich man 'clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day' that was very well and good as far as the intrinsic value of a talent goes, but the sin crept in when he shut off Lazarus from his sights, and he denied the Spirit of life that bound him came from the same God who gave life as a blessing. In denying his presence was an insult to His holiness. He was no better than the Rich Fool in the parable. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (Jas.4:17)

Coming back to the Parable the egregious blunder of the unforgiving servant was that he shut out the inestimable riches the Lord held in reserve. "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."(1 Co.2:9). The Lord showed pity on him because of his flesh. The Spirit of life nevertheless was the power with which he could have mountains in his service. No his eye was all focused on a paltry debt. (1 Co.4:7-9) "not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another./ For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory"

Matt.18:18 "Unity of the Spirit"

"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Unity is achieved by the everlasting gospel and it is one aspect of the Advent of the Son. "Mercy and truth are met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; And righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; And our land shall yield her increase."(Ps.85:10-13)

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ which according to the scriptures was like a dry plant, "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground." (Is.53:2). While we look at the cloud of witnesses their place in heaven is a constant reminder that God as the Husbandman ( John 15:1) is ever provident that 'our land' shall yield her increase. This land is not the dry ground Prophet Isaiah mentioned in the above mentioned quote. The ground was cursed because of sin and it required correction. The land that abides forever is special, soil is well prepared from which truth shall ever spring to heavenwards. This soil is what the heart signifies, and it is a spiritual space. The word of God has created it totally new so when the word of God speaks, "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world,"(Ph.2:15) it is to be understood as the Garden of Eden, our earthly tabernacle.

The voice of the Lord does a miracle with the heart that is right before him."The voice of the Lord maketh the hinds to calve, and discovereth the forests: and in his temple doth every one speak of his glory."(Ps.29:9).

As mentioned above there is a cloud of witnesses from heaven and also a building of God, "An house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." As associates of Christ our power comes from this unity.

Re.11:11-12 "Spirit of life"

"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." Jesus assured "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"( John 11:25). Three days and an half gives us the assurance that the two witnesses were a sign, that the spirit of life that raised the Son from death worked in their case as well. So vv.9-10 explain in what sense we need interpret, "the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."(v.9) . They are witnesses even in their death that not a jot or iota from the Law shall be changed.

" And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand."(v.13)

At the same hour is a tag to the day of judgment that shall follow. Ten indicates judgment and 7x1000 determines it is decreed from heaven.

Re.11:8 "the Sign" (1 of 2)

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city," Martyrdom of two witnesses lying in the street is a sign. We have Jesus telling his disciples how to respond to the cities where they were not received. "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet./Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."(Matt.10:14-15). When Jesus concludes his 'woe to ye' indictment he says,"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." (Matt.23:38). This was a sure indication that the house was not worthy since they had rejected the prince of peace. "And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you." Israel shall never be at rest till they receive him, "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."(23:39). The two witnesses lying in the street of the great city is to be spiritually understood. They serve as a sign of doom of disasters that shall visit upon them. The names of cities are interchangeable. The stone that angel cast down signals the fall of Babylon (Re.18:21) and it could be applied to all cities of the world.

The sign of his coming is sure of the day of judgment for these cities. "For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities./Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works."(Re.18:5-6) We see it even now. 'Globalism' was the watchword of nations living deliciously and' Greed is good was their mantra. Now it is dead. The beast who shall appear is part of long line of powers- that-be and they shall do evil. " And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."(17:11)

MotherMac, I've just copied your response (hereunder) into this thread, or else our comments will be all over the place. You just need to hit the Reply button at the end of the comment you're replying to, rather than starting a new comment. So you wrote:

"Thank you for your reply. I certainly do want to avoid leading someone wrong. God forbid. In chapter 12, verse 1, I am reading

we also are Those words speaks to me as the time in which he was living."

When the writer of this letter was sent to the Hebrews who resided outside of Israel (it's been suggested, Italy, or thereabouts), he was certainly encouraging them to keep their eyes set on Jesus, patiently running the race of faith in Christ. So yes, as the Hebrews in Italy (?) were being encouraged, so are we to be when reading it.

But if thinking of 'the carnal view or divine view of Christ', apart from verse 2, where the writer encourages us to only look to 'Jesus, the Author & Finisher of our faith', I can't see where one sees Christ from a carnal viewpoint. But if you're thinking that in verse 1, the cloud of witnesses (as those mentioned in chapter 11), were without knowledge of a coming Divine Christ, their Redeemer, then their view was according to the knowledge given them. But if their love for God & faith in Him to keep & deliver them held strong, the merits of the Coming One's Sacrifice would avail for them as well. In other words, their ignorance (carnal view?) of what was to come, would not preclude them from sharing in what we post-Cross have received through Jesus' Sacrifice for our sins. So, I'm unsure whether I've really understood your thoughts here, so I apologize if I haven't & thus your unsatisfied reading of all this.

Thanks for your consideration of my reply MotherMac. At least we are referring to the same passage in Hebrews. You wrote that you saw in Hebrews 12:1 a reference to both 'a carnal & divine view of Christ'. I re-looked at the verse & still unable to fit such views of Christ in there.

If you wish, could you expand your thoughts a little on your statement, so we might consider the verse in a different way? There is always the danger of going too far by searching for a deeper or hidden meaning, making the verse say something not intended; and to this we must be careful or else we do great disservice to God's Word, to our own understanding of it, & misdirecting others. So I would be very keen to hear your thoughts on this so that I can try to search for something that you're reading or sensing in there. Thank you.

Thank you for your comment.

It was inspiring and helpful.

However, I feel there is something

deeper than what has already been said.

Re.11:7 "The beast" (2 of 2)

The kingdom entrusted to Jesus was not of this world. "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." ( John 18:36). God made angels spirits and ministers flaming fire, which Elisha could see for which faith is required. Instead what does the false prophet do? "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." The source for this elsewhere and like the magicians in the court of Pharaoh resisted Moses and God. Similarly the beast wields people power while the anti-Christ spoke as the dragon would, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." (Re.13:11,13)

With this background the early church had to contend with the Jews, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie."(Re.3:9) Herod had spawned a political movement. Authority of Herod was as with the beast came from Satan. "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." 42 months include such temporal powers, each one resisting God. Nationalism of the Idumaean line was propped up by Imperial Rome. And is it of any surprise when Christianity became the official religion, and absorbed the culture of the Church of Rome,- Christian nationalism and culture wars are tares planted by the enemy.

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."(12:11) The two witnesses, 'loved not their lives unto the death'. Jesus assures, " For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."(Matt.16:25)

Good day, Chris.

We do need to guard that our passion for a topic or doctrine not override our release of loving words seated in truth and grace.

I can tell by your writings that you do approach your responses with consideration for the one who will read them and to whom you are replying to. You are a good example on this forum and I do appreciate your demeanor and the gentle way you address conflicting views.

Re.11:7 "The beast" (1 of 2)

"The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

First point to note is that the beast is a composite figure as the two witnesses represent the saints to whom Jesus Christ gave power according to the promise of God, and are called and blessed in his Son.. "The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies."(Ps.110:2) These enemies on the earth are caused by 'the war in heaven.'(Re.12:7). And the consequence of it we read in v.12. "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This short time is clearly set by the Spirit even as the earthly ministry of Jesus and of the two witnesses. 42 is a number designated by God so the time of the Gentiles or heathen is likewise determined. John was sent as a messenger who was killed by the sword. Herod Antipas, it must be stressed was a vassal king to Caligula as another Herod, Herod Agrippa would have James killed. One killed because of his oath and the other killed James because he wanted to please the crowd. in whichever case the beast is associated with qualities totally antithetical to Jesus. The beast rising out of the sea (Re.13:1) is from below the earth as Jesus is from heaven. He is the king," The Lord sitteth upon the flood."(Ps.29:10) What is the characteristic of the sea? The beast represent the wicked," But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."(Is.57:20). While we have the likes of Herod whose power is derived from some one else as enemies to Christ, the two witnesses represent an angel a man so the golden reed is their measurement and signify the everlasting gospel entrusted to them. Herod also gave rise to a political movement in the days of Jesus. (Matt.22:15-16)

Thanks GiGi for that detailed & timely reminder of what our Christian attitudes ought to be & how they are then expressed to others; and this examination by each one of us has to be first addressed when the seeds within our hearts & minds begin to germinate. Unless the feelings that arise within are not arrested early enough, we may well have to regret our words or behavior.

But then the matter of 'what then is sin'? I think most would agree that it is much more than violating the Ten Commandments, even as our Lord pointed His hearers to their own hearts to correctly understand this subject. But when it comes down to those regrettable things that arise within us which are not specifically addressed in the Word, we may find license to overlook them & treat them as not sinful, merely aberrations arising from the flesh. So, it may boil down to, 'what is sinful to some, may not be to others' (at least, until all are truly led of the Spirit to recognize sin for what sin is, or to those particularly sensitive to any deviation from the holy, to re-examine their beliefs by the Spirit's Guidance). And I too, have had to re-read my comments here, not only for clearly conveying my thoughts, but also to see whether my words could be hurtful or misunderstood, words arising from a mind overly passionate about the subject. I guess that I have failed in this as well at times. Blessings.

Re.11:4-7 "The two witnesses" (2 of 2)

The '1260 days' is a tag supplied the Spirit to indicate the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the same token the Gentiles are allowed to operate for 42 months. The 42 months' similarly is a tag. In an earlier post we saw 'the hour" during which the power of darkness prevailing over the children of disobedience. ( Luke 22:53). The beast as well as the enemies to Jesus who took him in the night belonged to the son of perdition. Judas Iscariot belonged to this group. This conflict reveals two laws, of the Spirit and of the sin.

Let us look at the characteristics of the two witnesses. They are representatives of several prophets coming under the earthly ministry of Jesus who is the fulfillment of the law. They were "clothed in sackcloth'. It echoes the mourning of Daniel for three weeks,"(Dan.10:2-3)

"And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." This recalls to us the seven plagues of Egypt" and of Elijah, "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy." In short these two witnesses present a composite picture of heroes of faith(He.11:33-38)

On the flip side the number 42 months gives the beast who is a composite figure. John the Baptist was beheaded under a Herod and we have the beast in the Acts of the Apostles, "Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church./And he killed James the brother of John with the sword./And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also."(Ac.12:1-3)

Finally " Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." This temple is not anything extant but what was founded on Zion. (1s.28:16) We see its culmination in Re.21.22-23

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it./... for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Re.11:3 "The Two witnesses" (1of 2)

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."(11:3)

Who is the authority to confer power on men but the Lord from heaven, who is heavenly? "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." The risen Christ in his humanity was the Word become flesh, so his authority stretched from Alpha the beginning. In his Ascension he was to be seated on the right hand of the Most High so Omega aspect, the ending referred to fulfilling the divine Will of his Father. " Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power"(Ps.110:1-3). Firstly the two witnesses belong to 'thy people'. These were given to the Son. "and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."( John 17:11)

The chapter began with a golden reed and the angel directing John what to leave out and what to include requires attention. "for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." This reed is a single measurement. "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."(Re.21:17) Gold signifies faith and here single measurement is of the angel,- the fellow-servant of John and of the man to whom the Son has given authority. Power of the little ones and their angels positioned to behold the face of the Father always defines the golden reed. Every other scale is false.

Prophesy is another feature and the two witnesses would do it for "a thousand two hundred and threescore days. "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."(Matt.11:11)

The days is a tag supplied the Spirit to indicate the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the same token the Gentiles are allowed to operate for 42 months. This conflict reveals two laws, of the Spirit and of the sin.

Pt. 2

Gal. 5:13

"For, brethren, ye have been called to liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by live serve one another."

Does one's sarcasm serve the other person lovingly promoting their well being or is it self-serving? Does it look out for the best interest of the other ( Phil. 2:4, 21) and not to your own?

Does it reflect that you are thinking highly of the person hearing the sarcasm or does it show you think more highly of yourself than you ought? ( Rom. 12:3)

Gal. 5:22

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against such there is no law."

Does one's sarcasm reflect these fruits in your character and your speech?

1 Cor. 13:4-8

"Charity suffereth long (patient), and is kind; charity envieth not; Charity vaunted not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things; Charity never faileth..."

Does one's sarcasm align with how love is described in this chapter?

I will stop for now.

This forum is one of speaking to one another. I know that at times I need to re-examine some of my words to see if I am speaking wrongly to another person here. I know I am not perfect in my speech, it is not all what I would call "holy speech" that God would approve of. And if He would not approve of it, it is sinful.

This post is not particularly addressed to Momsage, although her post brought up this topic and I thought it may be good to speak about sarcasm here as well as other ways we speak to each other here. let's speak the truth in love, see these conversations in a sober manner, taking what others post seriously and respond seriously with grace and love. We should recognize that we are talking about God and His Word and others who deserve loving responses.

Can Sarcasm be sinful?

Let us consider our use of sarcasm as individuals. Does your sarcastic remarks promote was is spoken of in these passages or do they work counter to the objective of these passages?

Eph. 4:1-3

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of your vocation wherewith ye are called, with lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Does one's sarcasm promote unity or divide, peace or disturbance in relationship?

Is the sarcasm proceed from lowliness and meekness or does it proceed from pridefulness and self-elevation over another?

Does the sarcasm come forth from longsuffering or is it reactive, a "come back at ya", response? Is it winsome in its intent and effect entreating the other to holy fellowship? Does it show forbearance with another in love or is it" touchy" and self-serving?

Eph. 4:29

"Let no corrupt (unholy) communication proceed from your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

Is one's sarcasm holy or unholy speech? Does it honor God and respect the person spoken to? Does it build up or tear down the hearer? Does it hurt or heal the hearer? Does it promote equalness in the relationship or does it inflate the speaker to the detriment of the hearer? Does it seek to be cooperative rather than competitive (getting to "one-up" another or win in a discussion)?

Eph. 5:4

"..Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient, but rather of giving of thanks."

Is one's sarcasm sober and mindful or foolish talking? Does it make fun of another or "jest" in a way that the other person doesn't like? Are you really "just Kidding, joking, or being humorous" in a mutually humorous and receptive conversation or does the sarcasm come from irritation, anger, or wanting to get at the hearer to put them down or shut them up?

cont.

Hello MotherMac. I'm unsure whether you're addressing someone specifically here, or who the "two (?) clouds of witnesses' might be you're referring to, but just to throw an answer in here: the 'great cloud of witnesses' (as referred to in Hebrews 12:1), are those faithful witnesses mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11.

So when I read Hebrews 12:1, I always get the sense that since those who have gone on way before us & stand in the Presence of God, their lives & faithfulness, in spite of many odds against them, should also be an impetus for us to 'run the race of Christian living & testimony'; a race, not who gets there first, but one that requires patience & endurance reaching the finishing line & the prize - just as those of old did.

But the Hebrews writer doesn't want us to only focus on those saints of old, but to look to Jesus, the Author & Finisher of our Faith (the One Who completed and perfected our faith before God): for He alone is the reason for our salvation, our power & joy to live this life, & Who will receive us into Glory at the appointed time. That 'cloud of witnesses' might have had a good testimony for us to be encouraged to do likewise, but only Jesus could author saving faith & perfect it & us before God by virtue of His great Sacrifice for us & the supreme example He set before us in godly living.

Amen, brother Spencer!

It's heartbreaking to hear that a fellow believer is going through something like this. But we believe in the power of prayer, and we do pray for Gustavo and also for his family.

Hi Gustavo Aldolfo..

I have prayed for you along with others on this site.

God bless you.

the "two clouds of witnesses?

Are you talking about the carnal

view ofChrist and the Devine view

of Christ? Am I mixed up?

Hi Momsage,

Most of us would say that the way you replied sarcastically is a sin. And as believers, we are to speak to others about such sin (offenses) but do so gently with compassion.

Momsage, we are to confess our sin in such a case and we will receive forgiveness and cleansing as John says in 1 Hn. 1:9 and also, if we have sinned and we are not aware that we have sinned, we have Jesus as our Advocate interceding for us before the Father, presenting His righteousness and His shed blood and the penalty He paid for ALL of our sins as the basis for justification. This is the only way for any one to be justified and therefore not be condemned.

So, if you do not think that your sarcasm is a sin and were to go to bed and die suddenly, you will be saved because your faith for salvation is in Jesus, not in our own sinlessness or godly actions/obedience to God.

If you recognize that your sarcasm actually is sin because it is not holy speech, then I would hope that you would confess it to God and receive His mercy. If you should die before confessing an act that you know is a sin, then you are still saved because your faith for salvation is in Jesus alone. He saves us 100%, not because we are sinless, but because we were and are sinful in our fallen nature and need to be saved by Him every second of every day until we are resurrected.

Momsage, I do not mean any finger pointing at you in this matter. my intentions are for your good and to support you in your walk as a believer. So, please, take my comments as such.

Matt.18:13 "Joy in heaven" (2 of 2)

The same hour is a tag set by the Spirit so comparing spiritual with spiritual we are on the right track to explain the two witnesses in terms of Jesus Christ. "And the same hour was there a great earthquake,"(Re.11:13) for instance is the duration of his ministry and the two witnesses are part of his earthly ministry. In short the work of the Son as the Word become flesh has to incorporate the divine will of the Father. One cannot be without the other since it explains the rationale of Father who revealed the testimony through an angel as in Re.1:1. It is the glorious gospel of Christ covering two worlds of the Spirit and of the body. Everlasting gospel is another name. Consequently when Jesus rejoiced as quoted from the Lucan gospel refers to the babes, they have their presence before God. Hence Jesus warns,"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."(18:10)

"And he to whom the Son will reveal him"( Luke 10:22). Jesus as the Good Shepherd came to save the lost. In delivering man who is dead in sin and trespasses he reveals the mercy of his Father. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins/Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." (Ep.2:1-2) What is the significance of quickening one who is dead? Everlasting life proof of which is the believer and his angel in the presence of the Father are aligned without any distortion. "the third part of the stars of heaven" being cast out is how the believers in this world have handled the truth in unrighteousness. How we walk the talk has grave consequences on the cloud of witnesses. (Re.12:4) This explains the joy in heaven over the one sheep lost and found.

Matt.18:13 "Joy in heaven" (1of 2)

"Verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray." The Spirit is referring the Son who is the Good Shepherd. He is the visible image of the invisible God so all emotions attributed to God must be seen as coming from the Son.

Similarly the Spirit refers to an hour which is with reference to the ministry of Jesus Christ. "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight./ All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."( Luke 10:21-22)

Jesus at the Marriage at Cana referred,"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."( John 2:4). By the same token he is referring to the wine which is distinctly with reference to the kingdom to come, " But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."(26:29) It is thus the Spirit has organized the Salvation Program of God giving a tag for his ministry and his Father's kingdom. When he explains his work he tells his captors, "but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." Comparing spiritual with spiritual we are on the right track to explain the two witnesses in terms of Jesus Christ. "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:" the same hour is the duration of his ministry and the two represents the testimony of the Son which his Father. It is same as in Re.1:1. It is the glorious gospel of Christ covering two worlds of the Spirit and of the body. Everlasting gospel is another name.

Matt.18:13 "Lost and Found" (2 of 2)

Holiness of God is a name, glory of which is invested in his testimony which is the glorious gospel entrusted to his Son. So when He sent his only begotten Son what is the Will of God? " Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." His concern is for the glory of everlasting life that the one sheep carries. God so loved the world is to bring the glory of the cloud of witnesses match exactly with those who are in the world of the body.

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."( John 17:6)

"That they may be one" is what the ministry of reconciliation yet remaining. "And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them./And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are".(vv.10-11).And when Jesus Christ says,"It is done" it is a signal that way to the tree of life is found. "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb./In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life."(Re.22:1-2)

Matt.18:13 "Lost and Found" (1 of 2)

"And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray."

Jesus Christ as the Good Shepherd. God sent his Son so the lost sheep may be found. Bringing them back into one fold means reconciling both worlds of the Spirit and of the body into one sheepfold. ( John 10:1)

We shall begin with v.11" For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."(v.11).

If the sheep lost its way and have not found what it sought is it worth the effort? A sheep is not endowed with foreknowledge as man is. He is a living soul. Satan beguiled Eve through a serpent. How did man get lost even after God gave him the wherewithal? The content of His breath into his nostril sums up the Law that He upholds. It is the word of his power. It explains the Law of the Spirit. The principle of Similitude sets reality of Law of heaven with that of the earth. Thus it is two contrary laws of the Spirit warring the law of sin in our vile bodies nevertheless a matter of life and death. In this existential battle everlasting life is what God promised those who are found.

The Spirit uses symbols for both laws, the tree of life for those who found their way back as we say from the case of Adam life of sin originating from his disobedience. This search for the lost sheep began with the commandment of God who sent forth his word that shall never go back in void.(Is.55:11)

In the parable we have the sheep that is ever by the shepherd. "And the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out./And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice./And a stranger will they not follow" ( John 10:3-5). They are the 99 and are content under the Law of the Spirit to stay close "for they know not the voice of strangers." Their glory they know are in safekeeping and the bright cloud is their testimony.

Matt.18: 11-13 "Lost"

"And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray." A sheep is most likely to wander away in a rugged terrain where the grass is sparse; the shepherd's task is to keep his flock in his sights and wild animals are not likely to dare show themselves while man is about. " For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."(v.11)

Satan beguiled Eve through a serpent. How did man get lost. God gave them a straight and narrow path. But when the serpent could get them out of their way and look at the way Satan had presented the alternate reality, and it can open a new vista as the word says,"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." It opened the way to another law."And the eyes of them both were opened,"(v.7) The way of the senses, tell a story, end of which is death as God had warned them. The tree of life was where the Law of the Spirit led to. It was a simple test of walking the straight narrow path but man failed. They let Satan to lead and they were lost.

In Adam we all are set in an alternate reality, a make-believe world, " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."(Ro.3:23). Where law of sin like a wolf roams about we shall appreciate God's counset to Cain. "And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."(Ge.4:6-7)

How come Cain could not take it. He was the wicked one a murderer since he let the spur of the moment direct his actions. (4:8) He had no respect for eternity. It is how the law of sin works.

You didn't explain with other scriptures why you disagree with me.

You didn't answer any of my questions.

Our thoughts on sinlessness or sinning every day are total opposites so one of us must be wrong and I don't care what you think except you are spilling it out all over this forum and I'm concerned about others. The title of sinning/christian seems to be a badge of honor these days, (anyone like me must be full of pride and haughtiness because, how dare I think I can live without grieving my Savior every day by sinning.)

I'm writing this at the end of the day. You say I must have sinned. Give me some ideas of what I must have done because I can't think of anything not even a fault. Maybe I should make something up like I use to do when I was a little Catholic girl so I would have something to confess to the priest so I could take communion.

How glad I am you've help me to not be deceived anymore, to think that God had created a beautiful way for His children to live WITHOUT sin in this wretched world. Really, I have to be realistic now, this can't possibly be true. I need to understand that what I believed was wrong because surly God isn't capable of removing the Adamic nature from our souls. I understand now that that is a bit too much for Him. Imagine being able to live with our sin-nature eradicated. I guess I'll just ignore all the scriptures that say we can like you did. I'm being sarcastic, of course. I guess this can be my one sin for the day so I'll ask God to forgive me for it. Thanks Chris you helped me be a sinning/christian. You helped me grieve my wonderful Savior today so I can claim the title of Sinning/Christian. NOT!

My heart really grieves for you and the danger you are in, especially, since you won't even address what I am saying with scriptures and/or answers to my legitimate questions. You don't because you can't. God bless :)

Pray, ask God for forgiveness and ask Him to take the desire for sin from you, tell Him you love Him so completely that you no longer want to sin, that you want to live a life fully dedicated to Him without sin. (It is the nature of Adam, the old man that we are born with that causes us to sin but sanctification can rid us of our Adamic nature, all at once completely. Be sincere and when you are sanctified you will feel a joy and peace you have never known. Then ask Him to fill you with the Holy Ghost. If it's in His will it will happen. Be worshipful and trust God. Just continue to pray and talk to God. He will begin to take over your speech and you will start to speak in an unknow tongue. This cannot be the devil, as some people may say, you are in God's hands and He is NOT going to let the devil have any power over you. Those fanatics on social media are of the devil. He is using them to keep people away from this beautiful gift form God; to malign it. Here are scriptures that I hope will help you understand that this doctrine is from God. John 5:14, Col. 3:9, Rom. 6:1-7, 2 Cor. 5:17, Rom. 12:2, John 3:1-10, Rom. 6:10-11, Rom. 8:12-13, 2 Tim. 2:15.

This reply is probably going to get a lot of comments denouncing what I have said. I have lived with the infilling of the Holy Spirit for decades and I am a true child of God who loves Him dearly and I live every day for Him without sin. I do have faults. Sins send us to hell. Faults, are minor character flaws; these do not send us to hell. People who believe in the sinning/christian doctrine refuse to see the difference. Calling someone a bad name IS a sin but if that person upsets you and you just leave while praying for them, the sinning/christian doctrine teaches that since you got upset you sinned. Jesus said darkness and light don't mix. If you have questions about my stand on the false doctrines of gradual sanctification and sinning/christian please let me know. I hope this helps you. God Bless :)

Matt.18:14 "Power of One"

"Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."

Speaking of the Will we have in this prayer of Jesus, the utter sorrow of our Savior Lord over Judas, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."( John 17:12). 'That the scripture might be fulfilled' refers to the blessings written in the covenant. (Ge.1:28) God blessed them at one lever was about Christ and the church. "Male and female created he them" applied to each believer who stood equally in direct frame of reference to the Wisdom principle (female) and also the Power principle.(Male). In the Lord's prayer we have the power and glory, in which this glory is a constant reminder of the body of Christ. "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." Forever is a tag for the Son. While we say 'Amen' we are declaring the creed of being one with the Faithful and true witness. When a believer treats like a nostrum and mumbles on auto-pilot mode it is a pointer to the imposter religion salvaged from a pagan cult of Rome has spread inroads into one's worship. Similar to the joy in heaven over one soul finding way back to the sheepfold we are witnessing Jesus with his fan ready to cast the chaff where the wind shall take where it will.

In the king's dream the ten toes tell the miry clay mixt with iron is under judgment. Like the stone cut not with hands judgment should come in series of shocks. there is an earth quake, and the tenth part of the city fell, it is what we read in Re.18:21. Seven thousand of men (7x1000) speaks it is predetermined. The hour of his judgment,- And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen," Babylon is interchangeable with Jerusalem. (Re.11:8). Loss of even one is diminishment to the glory of God.

Re.11:13 Judgment

"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." (v.13)

At the same hour refers to the hour Jesus spoke about at the night he was taken in. ( Luke 22:53)It is the power of darkness that caused the nation of Israel reject the true Light and the time of the Gentiles before the Son appeared in mid-air to collect. "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory./ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."(24:30-31)

The ministry of the two witnesses has the same duration as the day decreed for the Son. John the Baptist was sent according to the Scriptures as a voice preparing the way. "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts./But who may abide the day of his coming? "(Mal.3:1-2) Purifiers work refers to the great tribulation. The script for the day of his coming consists of several phases which is clearly laid out in Matt.3:13. "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The chaff shall be cast to the winds. (the imposter church), purging his floor is the earth(*the left behind church), and it leads to the unquenchable fire. "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."(Re.20:10). * Cf the vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun and she is sent to a place prepared for her. "(12:14)