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Feel free to begin a new thread. I am interested in hearing what others say on this.
Agreed. When I post on my Bible reading (no in Exodus) I am not proposing that what I write is necessarily correct interpretation nor am I not open for correction and elaboration from others. As you said, some of it comes down to simply opinion or understanding with my limited knowledge or lack of training in the original languages or customs of the Biblical time periods.
So, I don't mind at all if someone 'calls me out" on what I write. I am simply going through the chapter, paraphrasing what I am understanding, and trying to convey connections I discover between the chapter under review and other portions of Scripture and doctrine that I know. So, feel free to interject anytime. I am so fallible! And I guess, I don't feel inhibited about sharing this way. Others may not be so open as I am. But I feel if I do not share my ideas with other believers, I will not be in a place to be corrected or instructed by someone who knows much more than myself.
Have a good evening, David, thank you for "chiming in".
The Lampstand foreshadows Jesus as the true vine (central shaft) and the church as the branches who derive their life and fruitfulness from the vine as long as they remain attached to the vine. It represents the Tree of Life, that gives eternal life to those who eat of it (another foreshadowing of Jesus and the cross.
The fact that all of these items for this part of the tabernacle (the Most Holy Place and Holy of Holies) are all made of pure gold represents the divinity, pureness, and perfection of God. There is no amalgamated metal in these items-only gold is used. The gold also depicts the immense worth of God, being the most precious metal on earth. This also represents that the Most Holy Place and Holy of Holies are the realm of the Divine Presence-of which Jesus is worthy to enter and represent us, mediate for us, and pray to the Father for us. He brings us to the Father in Himself. We are united with Him and part of His body now, washed and re-created by the Holy Spirit. There is no outside light in these places, just the light of the Lampstand (Jesus-the true Light of the Universe).
The Scriptures say that the Father dwells in inapproachable light. We would not survive seeing Him. No one has seen the Father, except the eternal Son-Jesus-who is God and man in one Person forever-our perfect Savior, and the One Whom we will see face to face in heaven. Jesus is the Light of the World-we can look upon Him in heaven and still live. But I don't think that we will actually see the Father ever. We will always experience the Presence of God through the Spirit in this life and in Jesus in heaven.
This chapter is so full of pattern, symbol, representation, and foreshadowing, I think it would be hard to exhaust all of the meaning God designed into these items of the tabernacle. I can't wait to discover in heaven what the true reality these patterns and shadows represent in the tabernacle.
continued...
The next item is the golden lampstand (literal meaning of menorah)-not candles, but lamps lit with olive oil. it was to be made of one singular piece of pure gold hammered into shape. The menorah is very intricately designed by YHWH and it would take some skill to create all of the ornamentation out of one piece of gold. It would have a shaft that has one single middle shaft with a lamp on the top and six branches coming out of each side with a lamp on top of each branch. The lampstand bowls are to be made to look like almond blossoms with an ornamental knob and flower for each bowl at the top of each20 years branch and center shaft. They are to be made of the one piece of gold that the whole menorah is to be made from. (I think of Jesus' seamless garment) Lamps are to be made for each bowl along with wick-trimmers and trays (all of pure gold. The lamps are to be fashioned to give light towards the front of it as it will illuminate the table of shewbread. The lampstand is made from one talent of gold (said to be equal to 20 years' worth of wages for one man).
The inside of the Most Holy Place would be dark since it had no windows. The lampstand illuminates the Most Holy Place where the table of shewbread and menorah are placed. The menorah may represent and foreshadow many things. The six arms from each side of the central shaft represent the 12 tribes of Israel (the whole nation) with the central shaft representing YHWH as their guide in the wilderness. The 7 lamps may represent the 7 days of creation or days of the week.
The 7 lamps may foreshadow the seven-fold Spirit of God who enlightens the church. It certainly foreshadows Christ as the Light of the World who gives light to every man. The light of the menorah may represent the light of the Truth of God, the brightness of God's holiness, and the grandeur of the glory of God, the Presence of God among His people.
....continued
Thank you, it is all about faith and the heart.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, be safe traveling, been there done that, don't get to a point you have to pull out your briefcase to verify what city you are in. Agree this subject can be set out, and agree with 1 Cor, 15:45-49 but also agree with Rom. 5:19. Same with John 1:18 John wrote this after Jesus ascended like John 3:13. I agree about the Father, but all scripture tells us of the Son is He is the beginning, nothing was before Him.
Be safe, and God bless.
RLW
continued...
The gold of the cherubim needed to be heated and beaten to forge them into the shape of the cherubim. They are placed at the (side) ends of the cover with their wings outstretched above the top of the cover with their faces looking down upon this place on top (the Mercy Seat). How the angels desire to look into the mercy and grace of the gospel of Jesus!
These cherubim are to be forged onto the Mercy Seat so that it is all of one piece. YHWH promises to meet with and speak with Moses from upon the Mercy Seat. This tells me that the only way to commune with God is due to Him showing mercy to us. The Mercy Seat is the top of the Ark and covers the Testimony-Book of the Covenant-inside. The Mercy Seat-the Body of Christ-covers the transgressions of the Law that YHWH knows all people will disobey, yet the Law remains untouched, standing true fand good for all time. Some say that the ark represents the throne of God in heaven.
The next item for the tabernacle is the Table for the Shewbread (Bread of the Face or Presence). The table is also made of acacia wood with very specific dimensions, overlaid in pure gold with molding all around the edge. This, too, has four rings attached at the outside corners with wood overlaid in gold poles to go through the rings (and not to be removed). Table is to have a sturdy frame and four legs. Next, the utensils are to be made-pans, pitchers, and bowls-all of pure gold. On the table the shewbread is to always be on this table. The shewbread-unleavened-may be a reminder to the Israelites of the manna given to them in their desert years to sustain them and it also represents Jesus as the Bread of Life we are to eat and live. ( John 6), also, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." We are to feast on the Word, Jesus, ( John 1:1) who came from the Father, as well as the Scripture, that testify to Jesus from start to finish. We need to be nourished by Him continually.
continued...
This request by YHWH challenges me to be more generous towards God than I have been and reminds me that there are some things in our lives that we should set apart for God's use, not matter how costly, dear to us, or rare. It challenges me to desire to give Him my best, what is valuable, and to be willing to sacrifice freely for His work and will.
YHWH goes on to explain that the tabernacle will be after the pattern that He will show Moses as well as each item will be after the pattern He gives. YHWH does not just say, "Make me a tabernacle and furnish it, both in the way that you see fit to design and make." No, He is very specific about every detail. I think this preciseness is important because of what they represent and what they will be a foreshadowing of when the Messiah comes. The tabernacle is not to be designed by or according to man's ideas, but God's.
YHWH begins first with the making of the furnishings, not the structure of the tabernacle. This may be significant, but I don't have any insights on this.
The first item to be made is the ark. (YHWH had given Noah specific instructions to make the ark before the flood.)
This ark was to be made of the acacia wood with specific dimensions for width, length, and height. The wood was to be overlaid in pure gold, inside and out. I have read that the ark is a representation of Jesus, wood being His humanity, and pure gold being His deity. It would have gold molding all around. There are to be cast rings on the outside of each corner. Two poles of acacia wood overlaid with gold are to be placed in the rings so that the ark can be carried. These poles are not to be removed.
The Testimony-Book of the Covenant- was to be placed within the ark. This may symbolize the perfect law of God fulfilled perfectly by the perfect Messiah.
Next to be made is the Mercy Seat cover. It, too, is to be made of acacia wood overlaid in pure gold. Two gold cherubim that are hammered into shape
Furniture
This chapter describes the making of items for the tabernacle of meeting in fine detail. The directions are meticulous and exacting, representative of the absolute reality of each item's counterpart in heaven. These are said to be made after a pattern as well as a shadow of what is truly real.
The chapter begins with YHWH telling Moses to speak to the people, asking them to bring an offering to the YHWH voluntarily (God loves a cheerful giver) in a heartfelt way (worshipful). Then YHWH lists the items He asks the people to bring to Moses:
gold, silver, bronze
blue, purple, and scarlet fine linen
goat's hair, ram's skins (dyed red), badger skins
acacia wood, oil, spices
onyx, and various stones
YHWH reveals the purpose of these things offered is to make a tabernacle (sanctuary) (place of worship and meeting with YHWH) so that He may dwell among the Israelites.
YHWH is asking the people to bring to him costly things or rare things. Most of the metals were from the jewelry and items the Israelites received from the Egyptians just before fleeing the country. The dyed cloth was luxurious (not for everyday clothing). The hair and the skins from the animals involved slaying these creatures. Goats and rams they had as livestock, but badgers were wild (and fierce). The wood was from a tall tree with a rounded crown that grew in the wilderness, but sparsely, not as in forests. And the precious stones were also considered luxurious.
The items YHWH wanted made from these things required a large quantity of these things, so generosity was needed to supply all that was needed, even though the Israelites left Egypt in haste and not with ALL of their household goods. They probably didn't have a lot of excess of some of these things and most likely each served a good purpose for the people in their journey. They were to give sacrificially to YHWH, likely testing many of the Israelites since replenishing these things was unlikely in
this place.
Languages and customs it was translated from. One of the most challenging
Fields to me is understanding the bible is an eastern book a lot written viewed from an eastern mind.
Yes, that is what the Hebrew says in Exodus 3:14, I will be what I will be, but in the very same verse, God says to tell the children of Israel I AM has sent me unto you. In Exodus 3:13, Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say unto me, What is His name? What shall I say unto them?
God's response was to tell them I AM has sent you. Jesus also claimed to be the I AM of the Old Testament. I do agree with you that there are so many different interpretations of who the I AM is. I'm not sure about 100, but if ours is different than those 100 scholars, I guess we can bump that number up to 102!
What a wonderful post that answers other questions pending on which view you take!
Like if Jesus is 100% God could he have sinned? Maybe that should be on a different thread, so I want ask that. lol.
God bless.
I love you too Brother and it is always pleasant talking with you.
I haven't read much of the replies, I've been traveling, but I will when I settle down maybe this weekend.
However I intend to sit this one out.
Adam posted a question that I never heard or seen brought forward.
What % of God is in Christ.
The other side of the coin is What % of Mary or Adam and Eve is in Christ. We know all humanity goes back to Adam and Eve.
That's where it gets interesting. Adam in us have to die and we have to be born from above "Born again " in order to get an Ernest of the spirit. Christ didn't.
1 Corinthians 15:45-49. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have BORNE the image of the earthy, we shall also BEAR the image of the heavenly.
As you said, The glory Christ had with the Father is incomprehensible to us considering God is spirit and there is one spirit and Christ is in the bosom of that spirit.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, WHICH IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, he hath declared him.
Our relationship to our father doesn't help us relate to that!
If we go back to our father we go back to a time where we didn't exist. The Glory of Christ in the father is from everlasting to everlasting.
It's interesting The demons and Satan seems to comprehend that.
God bless.
I can see your point here. My point was that this sealing of the covenant is similar in pattern and shadow to the sealing of the New Covenant with the blood of Jesus. I don't believe I said that the animal blood equated to Jesus' blood. I did not mean that. I was just commenting that the blood was sprinkled on the altar unto YHWH to seal the covenant from His end and on the people for the sealing of the covenant from their end. But if you took it another way, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I know that it is only the blood of Jesus that propitiates any sins, not animal blood. It is the sacrifice of Jesus that brings forgiveness of sins, not the sacrifice of animals.
This continuation of the discourse to the 12 Apostles was on the way to Gethsemene. This attitude of caring for His own is much reminiscent of Paul when he had an idea that his death was coming (although much delayed in comparison). Jesus from the end of this discourse clearly could see He had overcome and that He would have victory over death. This would allow for His death to atone for the sins of all His chosen; then He would be resurrected as verse 16 and on defines. The Holy Spirit coming as He did at Pentecost would be the benefit for all God's children based on the departure back to heaven.
Of course they still didn't get what was being said; the plain talk seemed to convince them that He had come from God in verse 30. It seems puzzling why they didn't get it from what they said were proverbs in verse 29. Surely He had explained numerous times the situation including in this chapter but the Lord didn't let them understand in the flesh. Such things prove once again the Godhead is revealed by God's sovereignty; and that holds for each member of it. Therefore; it is an all or nothing thing; we either comprehend the Father; Son and Holy Spirit or we don't know any of them.
This is why understanding the spirit that is controlling man or whether it is indeed the Spirit of God takes discernment. One could read the Word; attempt to be peacemakers; do all sorts of good things but it is in the flesh or in the spirit of humanism that is hypnotized to believe that there is something inherently good in man. This is why physical beauty; mental acuity; accomplishments; emotional empathy and so many other things can seem to be from God but it is from a fallen nature. To love those who love us compared to those who despitefully use us is no better illustrated than here where Christ died for those who were enemies to God. ( Eph 2:3).
Certain beliefs God won't or can't work. The basics are Romans 10:9+10
And to accept all that God accomplished through Jesus Christ for man and
All that is required is believing with your whole heart. There were times when
Jesus Christ healed and the person being healed didn't know who he was they
Just believed , same grace today. Walk in love teach with love and grace.
Believe God's Word it's more like mental accent or just something to do
Then taken to heart and with humility changing to that which is true. Also
Most people believe the Goodness of God but not the absolute evil one
Or his practices.
I will be, I'm intrigued by how many individuals state this is what it means
Absolutely and yet their are 100 absolute interpretations, by even different
Scholars. Just an observation. Answers for the different denominations
Unfortunately that not what our Father intended.
We have had discussions before and have called each other brother that I am honored to be. I think you know I do not believe Jesus became a son at the birth of Mary, for everything was created through Him. I replied to the thread of what Adam posted but it does not show under all, if you would like to read it.
I love every one of you guys, the question, what % of God was Jesus? God is from eternity nothing was before Him, so shouldn't the question be what % of God are we? Nothing existed before Him, and all came from Him.
The glory before the world was? Jesus the Son of God was before all, Col. 1:16 through Him was all created. Was that from eternity or the beginning of creation does scripture really tell us? Like John 1:1 In the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last, the beginning and the end. What division has this created?
Like in the other post I said, He gave up the glory He had and lived a life in the flesh that only could fulfill the law. God could not because He is incapable of sin. I don't think anyone can say what was the glory He gave up was because no scripture tells us (speculation), we have to imagine what we cannot, truth is simple, not complicated, but we know He will return in the glory of his Father, Matt. 16:27.
Love all of you guys,
God bless,
RLW
Us that's not love motivation. That's why in the church Epistles we read
Romans ,13;9,+ 13:13, Ephesians 4:28,29,31 also ,Phil.,2:4 and ,Col.4:6 the reason
It's let because as we read believe and do we will change because we are
Letting His sword work in us to do his good pleasure.
When Jesus said to them "I AM," they went backward and fell to the ground. Could this have been the same voice and power of God they heard in Matthew Chapter 17, the voice of the great I AM that caused them to fall over?
Well, it was very powerful. All Jesus said in response was I AM, and they fell over backwards, all of them including Judas. But the funny part of this is that they must have got up because Jesus asks them the second time "Whom seek ye?"
Now if they had any sense at all, after what just happened to them, when Jesus asked the second time, "Who are you looking for," I would have said, "Never mind, He is not here!" I would have just turned around and gone the other way. Why is Jesus doing this? To show that He is in charge, to show His power, the same power that Peter, James, and John got to see at His transfiguration, the power of God Himself!
Matthew 17:1-8, the transfiguration of Christ is very powerful. They (Peter, James, and John) got to see something amazing. Verse 2 says that He was transfigured before them. A more accurate word would be transformed rather than transfigured. In fact, it is the Greek word where we get our English word metamorphosis from. He was completely changed in form and in substance. He was transformed before them. But notice His countenance: His face did shine as the sun; Notice His clothing: and his raiment with white as the light. So we are talking about transformation!
I agree that that alone should have been enough knock them over. It wasn't until verse 6 (As David mentions) that they fell over. They fell over once they heard the voice from heaven. But there was so much power and energy force there that would have knocked anyone over.
Now here is something I also find interesting. In John Chapter 19, we see this same power being demonstrated as we see in Matthew Chapter 17. When they came to arrest Jesus in the garden, and some historians say that there were at least 1,000 people that came to arrest Him. We know that Judas came with them because it was Judas that led them to this place where they could find Jesus.
But look what transpired. In Verse 4, Jesus says, "Whom seek ye?" Who are you looking for? Now this part is awesome. After they told Jesus who they were looking for, Jesus says, and please notice this because it is very different than any of the English translations. Jesus said unto them "I AM." He did not say I am He. He just said I AM (EGO EMI), the name of God in the Old Testament.
I am running out of space so I will send a (Part 2)
Look for signs then believe we believe and act then signs miracles and wonders
Follow.
That's opinion and adding that which is not their and I'm very aware that
Those sacrifices were an indicator of that which is to come. But in
Hebrews it says those sacrifices weren't good enough so let's not add to
God's Word.