Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 561

Dwayne Good morning sir scripturally when angels or messengers from God made appearances they always delivered

a message that all of the time was profitable and glorified the true God and never left the people guessing. The true

God is not the author of confusion. Keep in mind the enemy also has messengers an example a woman that I was

sharing the gospel with had two men appear in her house and not say a word, when she ask if they knew jesus Christ

they disappeared instantly never seen again. Remember at that name every knee shall bow, you would think they would

have smiled or acknowledged something but no. So when it comes to any spiritual manifestations or miracles does it line

up with scripture and Glory God and the word and the church and bless the recipient.

Hello Ronald.

Actually you are right that people didn't use punctuation marks at that time, they also used only capital letters. So all the scriptures were initially written in capital letters without punctuation. I have heard that before, that the position of the comma may be after the word today. But I am thinking when people actually started to use small letters and punctuation, didn't they write the specific verse so that it fits what they believed it was right? So that early time christians believed that the comma should be after the word 'thee'? As I see it, Jesus was for 3 days in Hades, in Abraham's bosom, in the heart of earth, He was not with Father God. After He was resurrected He showed Himself to the women who were present there, then ascended to Heaven to present Himself to Father God. Probably it was that time that (according to my beliefs) took all the souls of the saints from Abraham's bosom and carriied them to Paradise (under the altar).

Thanks Ronald, as you said we haven't come into agreement but I have also enjoyed the conversation.

Well, I am thinking, maybe then I will not get to meet you in Heaven before rapture, I was hoping to make a coffee for us!!!!!!!Joke

God bless you Ronald.

Gods love and goodness. Too many times I've heard or seen or see written if you do this or that or don't confess all your

sins or even if your born again were sinners, I don't see that biblically. For example you can push all the hell fire and brimstone

want but Romans 2:4 says it is the goodness of God which leads to repentance and john 3:17 God sent his son Not to condemn

thee world but that the world [inhabitants] might be saved. Another point when we are born again we become saints or

seperated ones from the world by holy spirit I am no longer a sinner that does not mean I don't sin that is saying I'm not in that

state of dead in trespasses and sins. In the book of Ephesians the word sinner is never used because the saints thats us

are viewed from Gods spiritual point of view. We have been made by jesus Christ the righteousness of God in Him. Again that

that does not imply we don't sin Romans chapter 5 +7 cover that. To walk in this we need to be more God inside minded.

i love the stroy ###

Hello dear Richard.

A few thought about what you have written...

Hebrews 12:15-17

"15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it (the blessing) carefully with tears."

Can one fall of the grace of God? One case is the above. Verse 15 says because of a root of bitterness in a believers heart this can happen.

In verse 16,17 a person that is a fornicator or a profane person can not inherit the blessing(salvation). How come? Isn't the grace and forgiveness of God available to all people? Yes but under the condition of repentance (and not only). If one chooses to not repent for sins he does, even if that person is a believer, then the grace of God is not available to him, like Judas. If one chooses to leave God's way and get back to his original sinful life then the grace of God is not available to him, like Demas. There is always a condition so that the grace and forgiveness of God is available to people. And this is called Repentance. Believers who eventually leave this world in their unforgiven sins do not enter Heaven.

Judas most possibly didn't repent for Jesus' betrayal, and even if he actually did repent he didn't proceed with asking God's grace and forgiveness. Repentance is not enough, if not asking God to forgive and not asking for Jesus' Blood. Wordly people often repent for things they do but they are not forgiven by God because they don't ask for forgiveness and the Blood of Jesus. The 5 unwise virgins (virgin means believer) were not allowed into the Marriage because they ended up in darkness, not having light in their lamps. The light represants a pure life. Darkness represants a life with sins.

GBU

No Marrants Christ was not related to David but David is used extensively as prophetic of Christ....It was only MARY that is related to David....As she was of the tribe of Judah....But Jesus was a heavenly being but David was an earthly being.

......This Father and son relationship between David and Solomon is beautiful metaphor for the Father and son relationship Between Christ and the H.G....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in MY NAME receiveth ME

.......As Solomon came out of the loins of his father David so the H.G. the Child of Promise will come outta of the loins of Christ Jesus.....He breathe on them and they received the H.G....His breath was his words and his Words are his Seeds....Thats y he has to know us.. without his seed the H.G cannot be born in us...As he says that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit which is the H.G.

As Peter said being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the living words of God...That living being that is born in us is the H.G. the Child of Promise...

Remember Jesus told the Jews you are of this world but i am not of this world....You are from beneath but i am from above....You are of this world but i am not of this world....All men carried that stain and the spot of adam but the lamb of God cd not be stained by any such spot...Thus David and Christ were not truly related....But thru MARY....But her placenta wd not let the blood of the baby and her blood mix....Thats the way it is during gestation the baby's blood cannot mix with the mothers blood....It wd kill the fetus....But nutrients are fed to the baby from the mothers placenta.

......As Peter said in Acts 2 :27...David was just prophetic of Christ....When David prayed thou will not leave my soul in hell neither will thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption...It was PROPHETC of Christ's soul was not left in hell etc...Not David....Thus that Child that was to come outta Davids loins Solomon is prophetic of The H.G. that has to come outa of Christ Loins ...GBU

Dear Alvis.

Throughout the history of christianity wine was always used for communion. Not just wine but sweet wine which was the type of wine used in ancient times Acts 2:13 "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine." New wines are sweet, they contain glucose in large quantities. That grape fruit juice practice is a recent "invention" of the previous, or so, centuary.

Paul in his letter to Corinthians talks about believers who got drunk but to understand that we have to see how communion was performed in the early days. The communion was not done during the church service as probably nowadays most churches do. In Sunday evenings (Sunday was a working day at that time) believers sat on tables to eat together and the communion was done at the end of that supper, just like Jesus and apostles did on that day. So some believers had a bit too much of wine during the meal (not during the communion) and got a bit drunk. Others ate their food without expecting the rest, who probably were poor and had little or nothing at all to eat. So Paul adresses this sort of things. If you read the history of christianity, you will find out that those meals were called "agapes", from the greek agape which means love. That practise was kept until aprox. the middle or end of the 2nd centuary AD and was eventually abandoned since christians were then thousands and practically couldn't gather together in huge tables. So the communion was eventually transfered from the tables to the Sunday service. During emperor Constantine's time Sunday was declared a holiday and the church service together with the communion were transfered from evenings to mornings. A brief account of the practice of the early church.

GBU

He also quoted David in the book of Psalms, one of seven things Jesus said on the cross, which was written 1000 yrs before His death.

Matt. 27:46, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

A Psalm concerning David's Son and David's Lord.

Psalms 22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Why art Thou so far from helping me, and from the words

of my lamentation ?

No one proved it to me , a person didn't tell me , the Bible did . I don't need to prove it to anyone , u could never prove to me that Jesus is God , only the Bible could do that . Good bye and God bless .

There r a lot of us about David , not too many on this site but plenty of us out there , may God bless you .

No, it's the bloodline of David reference,,, David was touched by God,,, God spoke through David,,, much of the Psalms were written by David.

Could it be said, that retreating from grace is a condition that we, who believe, at one time or another might experiance?

Becoming as little children, learning as we go?

Your insight of Judas heart after He betrayed Christ, had become the unforgivable sin. It was true also of Simon his father who did not recognize the Savior. The "Hypnotic pull" you refer too, is the Power for his Father followed with the money for His Son!

Knowing the word as you do and backing it up with its verses, is a complete use and application of the word of God.

Judas did not follow Christ after his denial, as the others did. The desciples watched and followed

Judas did not believe, nor as you say was baptised, this spiritual condition would be his demise, as He threw himself off a cliff!

Thank you for sharing!

With due respect of your conclusion on wine (fermented juice) being used in Communion, remember day old juice will not have much fermentation, but as scripture refers to, not putting new wine (juice) in old bottles lest the old bottles burst. So, wine could be considered before and after fermentation. While you would prefer in today's world to use fermented juice as your choice of wine, we should not condemn anyone desiring to use Welches grape juice, for neither new or old wine would have any bearing on why either are used in remembrance of the precious blood of Christ.

Jesus's first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding party and it likely contained alcohol based on the comment someone made there (saving best for last). Because Jesus is sinless it would not make sense for him to do an act causing sin. Therefore what He did is not sinful. And following His example is not sinful as long as following other verses about keeping in moderation. Nearly everything can become sinful in excess and if abused. Plus Jesus used wine at his last supper not Welch's grape juice. So, while I think well intentioned to not cause anyone to stumble (such as for any recovering alcoholics), I personally would prefer to remember Jesus following His example with real wine. God bless.

No Alvis, I wouldn't condemn believers partaking in a little red wine at the Lord's Table. In fact, some believers do, as observed during my days with the Christian Brethren Assemblies, & one soon knows that most of those present there don't indulge in alcohol at home, since subdued coughs are sometimes heard after taking a sip of the wine from the common cup. As long as our focus is on the Lord Who was sacrificed for us, our remembrance of Him & in communion with the saints, it matters little whether juice or wine is used.

Taking communion in the church building by the church, it is often brought up by various believers whether to use juice or wine.

I feel like in the days of old in the beginning of taking communion, real fermented juice was used, as Paul commented to the Corinthians that some drank and became drunken.

But today, we in the churches of God only use fresh juice that represents the blood of Christ. In this manner, we stop anyone from being drunken.

Question, would any of us as believers condemn any believer if they partook of fermented juice in communion as long as an amount would not be intoxicating ?

Hi earl.

here in revelation 22:11 it says let him holy or unjust ect...still!

earl this suggests after this lifetime and after judgment.

( he that is unjust, let him be unjust "still:" and he which is filthy, let him be filthy... "still:"... and he that is righteous, let him be righteous... "still":... and he that is holy, let him be holy "...still".)

revelation 22:14-15 verifies that!

" blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,...and may enter in through the gates into the city.....

"for without" are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

"after" this life some will remain righteousness that will enter in through the gates into the city.

and there are some who will remain unjust " the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." who will be without the city.

and revelation 21:8 tells us where they're going!

"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

also: revelation 20:13-15 states "and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." this suggests after this life!!

daniel spoke of this in daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

this also suggests 2 groups after this life in an everlasting condition! ( unjust still and righteous still.)

jesus makes reference to 2 groups, 2 destinations after this life in

matthew 25:41-46.

and it's everlasting not a refining fire!!

come on earl let's humble ourselves and not get in the way of this great truth.

Press song house line on way lord have then only pray song the potter saw a vessel this is not Jeremiah chapter 18 that Sam Cook saying about he took 100 pounds of clay.

Hi Doug. The part of that verse you quoted, "a man approved of God", can easily be understood by some as, 'Jesus, as a Man, met God's approval, by allowing miracles & signs being done through Him'. That is, to prove Jesus' Worthiness to declare God's Word, perform miracles, & be His Sacrifice.

Rather, the Greek for that phrase states that 'Jesus, as a Man having been SENT FORTH (revealed, declared) by God to you by miracles, signs, etc.'. This is the meaning rather than a special Man requiring God's Approval & proved it by working miracles. Reading it in the Greek (translation) alters our understanding markedly to what Peter was trying to show. I wonder whether this was the portion you highlighted to the minister, or was it something else?

Chris,

For sure, but we can always pray for others here and if someone presents a view that we think does not align with Scripture, then that is an opportunity for us to pray for that person specifically. Those who do not post have views that are unknown to us and we can certainly pray generally for everyone who reads a discussion, we just cannot be as specific as when someone posts. So, everyone is encouraged and welcomed to share their thoughts and beliefs here. There is a lot of love and concern here on this site and we all can feel valued by one another, in my opinion.

Exodus 24 continued. So, it seems that this pavement would be made of all the primary colors that would together make all the colors of the rainbow. It was clear and transparent, without blurring, flaw, or imperfection. How awesome that would be to behold! I wonder how it affected Aaron, his sons, and the 70 elders? I also wonder if the people below saw any of this.

It says "But YHWH did not lay His hand on these nobles (elders)". I think this means that He didn't slay or harm them for seeing this manifestation of Himself because he chose to reveal Himself this way, knowing what man can take of His glory and not be consumed. During this visitation of YHWH, the 74 ate and drank with God. Not that God ate and drank, but that the 74 had a ceremonial meal for the sealing of the covenant. The blood sprinkled on the altar symbolized God's oath and the sprinkled blood on the people symbolized the Israelites' oath concerning this new covenant.

Next, YHHW calls Moses and Joshua up further on the mountain to the cloud that surrounded the top of the mountain. I like how God said, Come up to me on the mountain. He says He will give Moses tablets of stone that have the law and commandments that God Himself had written on the stone tablets. Moses is instructed to teach these to the people. Moses told the elders, Aaron and Aaron's sons to stay where they are and be regents (leaders and judges in Moses' stead for the Israelites.

The glory of the YHWH rested upon Mt. Sinai, covering the mountain for six days. Perhaps Moses went up the mountain on the first day of the week and on the seventh day (the Sabbath) YHWH to Moses out of the cloud.

It says that the sight of the glory of God was like a consuming fire for the Israelites below. Moses went into the cloud and was there for 40 days and 40 nights with YHWH.

Thus ends this chapter, leaving us in suspense! These people experience so many amazing things with YHWH. Surely this experience would be life changing!, But we shall see.

Exodus 24 continued...

I guess I had never thought of the blood of Jesus going two ways like this. After Moses sprinkled the blood on the altar He read the covenant that he had written down to the Israelites. Again, the Israelites said in unison that they would do all that YHWH had said to be obedient to the covenant (and Him). Then , after the people consented to the covenant, he sprinkled the blood on the Israelites. Interesting how Moses says This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to these words is so similar to what Jesus said at the Last Supper concerning the New Covenant of His shed blood for us.

So both parties of the covenant had assented to the covenant with Moses being the mediator, just like Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant between YHWH and mankind.

After this. Moses took Aaron, Aaron's sons and 70 elders up the mountain as YHWH had instructed him to do. And when they had gone up the mountain as far as YHWH had instructed it says that they saw the God of Israel. Now I do not think that they saw him face to face (which I believe means in all of His glory or the completeness of His essence) because no man can see God face to face and live. It is said that Jesus is the only One who has seen God face to face and He lived because He is the eternal Son of God and saw Him face to face eternally prior to his incarnation. Likely, these people saw aspects of God's glory that God knew would not slay them. So, the text describes what they saw. It is not very detailed, but I think that God showed just enough of his glory to convince them that YHWH was indeed there, but not enough for them to be able to create an image of Him to be worshipped.

The pavement under God's feet was like sapphire. I read up on this and I learned that sapphire, ruby, and topaz are all of the same genus. Sapphire can be blue to green, rubies are red, and topaz is yellow. rainbow (just like it says in Revelations).

..continued

Moses had gone up the mountain to be with YHWH and hear from Him. From chapter 20 (the giving of the 10 commandments) through this chapter God had been speaking to Moses on the mountain the laws/covenant and Moses has gone down to tell the people what YHWH said to them and what they were to do in obedience to YHWH.

In chapter 24, God tells Moses to bring Aaron, Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, and 70 elders, but specifies that Moses is the only one who will come near to YHWH. the other 73 are to worship YHWH on the mountain from afar. So perhaps they were midway up the mountain and the rest of the Israelites were before the mountain, but not on it.

Before the 74 went up the mountain (Vs. 1-2) Moses went down and told the people all the words and judgments YHWH had given to them via Moses. And all the people responded together as if one voice vowing to do all that YHWH has said for them to do.

Then Moses wrote down all that YHWH had told him on the mountain. I am sure YHWH helped Moses remember everything accurately.

The next morning, early, Moses built an altar at the base of the mountain and also arranged twelve stone pillars (I assume near the altar). The altar represented YHWH and the pillars represented all of Israelite (the 12 tribes). Then Moses sent young men to get livestock to offer burnt offerings and peace offerings to YHWH. The text mentions oxen as being sacrificed. It doesn't say where the sacrifices were done, but apparently not on the altar, perhaps there was a nearby place to slaughter the animals and burn them.

Next, Moses took half the blood and sprinkled it on the altar to YHWH and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the people.

This is how this covenant was sealed, by blood. The blood sprinkled on the altar was towards YHWH to propitiate the sins of the people and the blood sprinkled on the people was for them to be made partakers of the covenant being recipients of the effects of the blood. Same as with Jesus.

What is the rapture and did it occur before our street the tribulation

Churches should have some structure through the authority of Pastors and Elders. Nonetheless, any laypeople that have doctrinally sound ideas that wish to start a prayer meeting on a more regular basis; begin street evangelism; small groups; discipling and other such activities whether in their homes or in the church building shouldn't be prevented from doing such things and likely would be supported by many pastors.

Traditionally, preachers such as Whitfield; the Wesleys; Moody and other notable figures would interchangeably preach out in the open air and with large congregations. Whitfield in particular would spend hours in prayer often in tears before his outrach. Would it be that we find churches such as in the New York businessman's revival that would meet every DAY at noon for prayer.

Today; of course we see many mega churches that are better off NOT preaching their compromised and often deadly doctrines. Still; there are some who perhaps are a bit off on some things but are not caught up in the limelight of publicity who would visit the orphans and widows; feed the poor; and invite the lame and blind to a meal (or send food to them under the bridges like a friend of mine). There aren't too many cooperative churches that go out witnessing or try to start a revival. I do know of one church in Pittsburgh that supports ministry at an inner city more poor area in reaching out to the community. I also have brothers that I know that regularly street witness; but that is confined to one church in the aforementioned city. It seems even less of this goes on since COVID.

Having the guts to preach and be persecuted for His name's sake is rare today. There are always those who like to shout and make people angry; or those who don't want to challenge people or assume that everyone wants the love of God. Unless the true "grace" gospel is preached that all we can offer is a broken and contrite heart and we have no good within us ( Psalm 51)

don't bother

Godly sorrow leads to repentance; worldly sorrow to death. ( 2 Cor. 7:10). Note that it also leads to salvation and no regret.

This is illustrated with Peter who clearly knew Christ; but he in a sense had to be "converted" ( Luke 22:32) from the mindset of his old nature. This would be accomplished after the Resurrection and confirmed by the questioning of Christ as to whether he loved Him and the prophesied death for Christ that he would have to endure in the future ( John 21:18).

Judas Iscariot was only sorry for the consequences of what he did and still only saw Christ as the world did; a good man. Satan had held him for years with his greed and of course he betrayed Christ for a pittance: 30 pieces of silver. This suicidal mindset was probably a result of Satan's hypnotic pull suddenly ending; perhaps when whatever human conscience he had finally recovered. There was never any recognition given of Christ's Holiness nor was Judas ever rebuked by Him as Peter often was and no doubt everyone else. He "rebukes all those He loves" ( Rev. 3:19). Even though the other disciples ran away they still stayed from afar to witness what was happening. Judas couldn't face that. It is tragic that he could get to see the Resurrection 3 days later. He only faced an end to all meaningful existence in his mind; not realizing that he then should have sought repentance and a right standing with God. It is the sin nature which is the root cause; and we need to be Born Again to put our old self to death.

Galatians 5:4 discusses "falling from grace" in terms of attempting to follow the law again and whoever breaks it is accursed; where anyone who breaks the law even in one area according to James 2:10 breaks it all. Falling from grace would mean once trusting in grace then going back to the law; hence never really having a salvation experience where we are enlightened to grace being needed and our own helpless ability to follow the Lord. (see Romans 8:5-8).

God has shown me two baby angels while i was at work; when God shows u angels, is it a sign of his approval or a warning and the angels were smiling , my bus helper never heard anything nor saw anything. is this a sign? this actually happen seven to eight years ago iam a school bus driverand no one saw or heard anything i was on my bus dropping off kids.this really happen

Hey Giannis,

I'm probably older but I am not tired, ha ha. I have enjoyed our conversation but looks like we come to a point we are not going to agree. That is ok, I felt I listed scripture that went with my understanding. Just one or two more things and it is ok if you don't reply, and I do not mean anything about not replying.

The thief hanging next to Jesus that asked Jesus to remember him when He come into His kingdom. First punctuation was not used and depending on the comma would change what was said. I say unto you, Today or I say unto you today, another question, why capitalize the t in today after a comma?

If Jesus and the thief went to heaven that day, why did Jesus tell Mary do not touch me for I have not ascended to my Father in John 20:17? Three days later. He ascended and presented Himself to His Father as the Firstfruits of those who slept and then returned. This was the same time the Priest waved the sheaf of the Firstfruits to be accepted by God before they could partake of the first harvest, the same with Jesus He could not be touched until He presented Himself to God.

The Old Testament is all the early church had and if we claim that all Scripture is inspired by God if what is said in the old should not change in the new. The definition of death in the old is the same in the new, the new cannot contradict the old if both are inspired by God.

The spirit is what goes back to God, without the spirit we are dead, in scripture it is called sleep. No spirit no breath and no more communication with God. The soul is us and is buried in death until resurrection.

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"

I have enjoyed this.

God bless,

RLW.

Thank you GiGi. I fully agree; if one presents a comment here, it should be done with the expectation that it will provoke someone else to give a response. And when, what I believe is a critical doctrine that comes up, all the more reason for multiple emotion-charged responses to flood in.

What I am still trying to figure out, is the deathly silence that permeates when a verse is presented that should cause one to think further & reassess one's long-held beliefs. Even an ' I'll check this out with my pastor/elder & get back to you ' can give me some hope that something more meaningful will develop. But instead, a tenacious grip on a belief that fails to take other Scriptures to account, can make any hope of a useful discussion fall flat.

Actually, the bible does tell us when Satan lost his position in Heaven.

The passage says king of Tyrus, but he was never a covering cherub. This is about Satan (Lucifer).

Some say that Satan was an angel, but no where in the KJV does it say that. He was a cherub.

Ezk 28:

[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.