Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 563

God bless u too bro .

None taken bro .

Chris I have seen the back and forth on this subject matter and the different meanings for different texts. One can state that

we who are born again were in Gods foreknowledge or mind since the foundation of the world eph. 1:1:4 because God is

omnipotent also he knew of course the our Saviour was in his mind just like he knew Lucifer was going to betray him. Last point

at the end of Gods word he is going to hand over everything to his father and our Father not to himself, also Jesus Christ

currently sits at Gods right hand. My point is I see both viewpoints but I don't judge because its not my job.

Hey Giannis,

Part 1

I want to thank you; this discussion has been a blessing. It has stretched me in my understanding and the realization of some answers to some questions the Holy Spirit may not show us, maybe it is to see if we show love to one another. In our discussion the spirit and the soul are the keys, what part of us are they? Are the spirit and soul the same? Sometimes, in scripture, they seem interchangeable but is the spirit or the soul immortal, that is the key to the answer.

Spirit in Hebrew the word ruach means breath, wind, spirit, and in Greek, the word pneuma also means wind, breath, spirit. Our spirit is our driving force, energy, and stamina, and is the conduit of communication to God through His Spirit. Soul in Hebrew the word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity.

In Gen. 2:7 God breathed into Adam's nose the breath of life and he became a living soul. Adam became a living soul he was not given a soul. The breath, spirit, given by God became life, a soul. Also, in Genesis 1 all living animals are soul's nephesh. The soul is a living being human or animal, the life in us, but it is also our identity, we are all different in looks and personality, all our feelings, our thoughts, emotions, all that makes us, us.

Does scripture say the spirit leaves this body? Ecclesiastes 12:7 Jesus in Luke 23:46 Stephen in Acts 7:59. Does scripture say the soul leaves this body? In the resurrection 1 Cor. 15:52-57 If our soul is immortal would we not already be a spiritual being? Does scripture support death as the separation of the soul from the body and the soul is immortal? Does that come from Socrates, Plato, and then Augustine's encouragement in the church, and over the years it is fixed?

See Part 2

Giannis,

Part 2

Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.

Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-55 1 Cor. 15:14.

Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.

1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.

There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.

Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.

See part 3

Giannis,

Part 3

1 Peter 4:6 I think it would be hard to verify Peter is talking about the gospel being preached to dead people, it may mean those who are spiritually dead or ones that heard the gospel that has died and was dead when he said this, or an answer not yet reviled.

A general definition of a parable is a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels. Luke 15:3, 15:8, 15:11, and 16:1 are parables, and they are introduced in a similar form to Luke 16:19. In this both the rich man and Lazarus are depicted as having bodies, Lazarus a finger, the rich man a tongue after death, but scripture says new bodies are not given until the resurrection.

The rich man and Lazarus both were fully aware of their surroundings, scripture tells us there is no knowledge in death. My understanding of the lesson of Jesus is clear. Our current lives dictate our eternal destiny, which is unalterable after death, and the only way for this to not be a parable is for the soul to be immortal which comes from Greek philosophy and was advanced by Augustine in the church. My understanding is scripture does not support that.

Sorry, it took a while to get back to you, and forgive me if I repeated anything I'm an old man.

God bless,

RLW

Adam Jesus Christ had a human mother called mary the genetics are always dominate male side in human physiology,

also God created the sperm to impregnate mary for natural developement therefore He i8s and always will be thye only

begotten of the Father. We are his children spiritually when born again.

Amen Chris good verse that John 17 :5....It does not need any explanation.....Its Kinda self explanitory...

Thanks Earl but again we disagree on all those scriptures you presented.

You asked "What does the overcomer, overcome" as if all overcome. Nowhere in scripture presents this.

We would be revisiting a pass discussion where this was put to rest using these scriptures: Revelation 20:1-15. and Revelation 22:10-11.

( The so-called refining fire you're presenting has already past back in Revelation 20:1-15. )

By the time we get to these verses we have the outcome of two groups with separate destinations.

Revelation 22:10-11

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

(Yet there still remains the unjust AFTER JUDGMENT. )

HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL: AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY, LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL:................AND HE THAT IS RIGHTEOUS, LET HIM BE RIGHTEOUS STILL: AND HE THAT IS HOLY, LET HIM BE HOLY STILL.

Revelation 22:14-15

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city............

FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOSOEVER LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE.

Again everyone doesn't overcome. Revelation 21:7 is one group. Revelation 21:8 is another.

Grae but Joseph was must much much more a type of Christ then Job.....Bible scholars tells us that Joseph was a type of Christ in over 100 similarities....Plz google it.....It will be a great blessing to you....And i love to read Job....But its Joseph who reminds me of Christ the most.....love ya Grae....No offence

Jesus And The Samaritan Woman

John 4:1-26

1. When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and Baptized more disciples than John,

2. (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

3. He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

4. And he must needs go through Samaria

5. Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph

6. Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being weared with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

7. Therefore a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

8. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

9. Then saith the woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealing with the Samaritans unto him, How it that thou, being a Jew, asketh drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

10. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knowest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12. Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle.

13. Jesus answered and said unto her, Whoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again.

14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water spring up into everlasting life.

15. The woman saith unto him, Sir give me this water, that I thirst not neither come hither to draw.

16. Jesus saith unto her,but call thy husband, and come hither.

17. The woman answered and said, I have no husband, Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

Thank you so much for the word of God that I can use for our Ladies Day at church. It gave me better insight for my testimonies so I can give to the ladies using the examples of the manicure set, which doesn't come close to the word of our Lord in changes or shaping us. Thank you so very much.

John 13 and Predestination

This chapter; and the following are part of a private discourse between Christ and the 12 Disciples and demonstrate what has been prophesied in both veiled and now clear language as to what would happen to Christ; who whould betray Him; and once again God's inseparable relation to Christ when He is glorified as well as His elect (or chosen as stated in verse 18).

It is clear that Judas Iscariot was also called AND chosen for the evil betrayal; which was prophesied in Psalm 41:9. This verse ALSO shows how Judas was a "close friend who He trusted". There was pain because of the betrayal for this reason despite the inevitability of it Jesus gave him the sop which was traditionally given to a guest of honor. (Verse 26). This is why we cannot make election or predestination a mere intellectual concept. If Christ could love someone who was to be the "son of perdition" ( John 17:2) then who are we to not love our enemies; and pray for those who despitefully use us? ( Matt. 5:44).

We also need to see how Jesus loved His own unto the end (verse 1). Jesus surely had other things that could preoccupy Him after the Passover meal. Instead; He decided to reassure His disciples who still didn't get much of what He was saying. Verse 36 was the first hint that Peter would be restored after his fall into denial of Christ. He would die eventually and be with Christ. Here; he showed how being a servant was paramount in being a Godly example.

This was the culmination of what He had been saying for the last few years; and in a a few short days it would finally be clear to the Disciples what these concepts meant. Since all but one of the 12 would be martyred eventually; they had to strip themselves of any self reliance and follow the Master's footsteps. Divine help through the Spirit for all these things would soon arrive at Pentecost.

"Grae":

Stay true to what the Spirit teaches you.

As you can see the truth that the book of Job is about the life of Christ.

Look at the book of the Psalms in that same light.

It's a conversation between Father and Son, and the sons life, and those prophecies of that relationship.

Remember it's Christ's words not David's.

2 Samuel 23:1-2

God Bless YOU, his body.

Offer Yourselves As A Living Sacrifices

Romans 12:1-8

1. I beseech you therefore, brethern, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one member one of another.

6. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith.

7. Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching,

8. Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity, he that ruleth, with diligence, he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go."

Do you know where you came from?

Do you really ,really know?

Do you know where you are going?

Jesus knew, He knew ,like you and I know what day it is, what time it is.

He had a complete understanding who He is, and why He had come to the earth!

He could see from the beginning to the end!

Unlike us who worry about tomarrow , or the what "if's", surrounded with the uncertainty of what it will bring ?

Faith in His word, believing His words, are what the people need to confront, the reality, in the"here and now" that we will stand before Him!

The cross is where we will confront Him! Sooner or later, for the time is at Hand!

Repent and be Baptized

Standing Firm In The Lord

Philipppians 4:1-7

1. Therefore, my brethern dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.

2. I beseech Euodia, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

3. And I intreat thee also, true yoked fellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life.

4. Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

5. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

6. Becareful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your request be made known unto God.

7. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Hiya Robert lemme give ya my slant on John The Baptise....His baptism was an EXTERNAL washing of the flesh but he points to another baptiser coming after him as Jesus the lamb of God that wd baptise humanity with his own blood AN INTERNAL WASHING....As Jesus had said its the things that come from the heart that defies a man but to eat with unwashed hands defileth not a man.

......Jesus knew that all of his disciples had been water baptised but he warns them saying if i wash thee not you will have NO PART WITH ME...Which speaks volumes of a greater baptism of their hearts by his Blood etc....An internal baptism of our hearts

.....But Jesus was also water baptised but he had no sin it was to fulfil the law of moses that 2 turtle doves wd be washed ( Christ and the disciples ) the Church his bride....Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave his life for it....As 1 of the doves had to be killed and his blood sprinkled on the living bird the Church then the living bird was set free in an open field....Whom the son sets free is free in deed....

.....Christ and his disciples answer to the 2 turtle doves but 1 wd have to die for the other then the living bird was set free

.....In Song of Solomon the 2 lovers are Christ and the Church but they refer to each other as having DOVES EYES....Which is prophetic that 1 of the lovers/doves wd have to die and his blood sprinkled on the living bird the Church etc

.....I think that is y the Dove descended on Jesus as the H.G. was trying to tell the ppl that this man Jesus was their sacrificial Dove that wd have to be washed in the Jordan and be killled for the living bird the Church....Remember Jesus died for the Church as John was of the tribe of levi thus he cd do this washing as Moses had said had to be done for sin or leprosy.

......Remember Jesus was in the house of Simon when Mary broke the alabaster box....Moses had said that if the leprosy or house was healed a sweet smell had to be offered up...Mary

The Resurrection Of Christ

Mark 16:1-8

1. And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had brought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

2. And they early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

3. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?

4. And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.

5. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in long white garment, they were affrighted.

6. And he saith unto them, Be not frightened: ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is not there: behold the place where they laid him.

7. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galliee : there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

8. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: said they anything to any man; for they were afraid.

Chris , thanks for your response . If I choose to do so I could back up my beliefs with scripture also . As I said in my answer to Adam I have no desire to get into a big debate about this , mostly because I don't feel the need to convert others or justify my beliefs and also because it seems to me that I would b wasting my time and energy . I do feel that hinging my beliefs on just a few scriptures isn't good idea when there r many other scriptures that contradict those that I am hinging my beliefs on , its not something that I would b comfortable doing . If I were to go through the Bible , from the beginning , quoting all the scriptures that I feel back up my beliefs , it would take me a full week of all day work . I'm not doing it right now . I'm now done with this site , reason being ? I did say that I wasn't up for a debate about this in my response to Adam but , u couldn't leave me alone as I had asked .

Amen, "Grae":

The Holy Spirit has given you great insight to his word.

Our knowledge of God never ceases to grow as we spend time in his word.

1 Corinthians 2:9 ...eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath entered into the heart of man, the things God hath prepare for them that love him.

Job 38:7 When the MORNING STARS .....sang together ....

Revelation 22:16 ...I am .....the bright and MORNING STAR .....

Revelation 2:28 and I will give him the MORNING STAR ....

Psalms 82: ....ye are gods, the children of the most high .....

John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one.

God Bless YOU, his body!

Hiya Grae luv ya....And Jesus was not his own Father but he was the father of the H.G....The very fact that we have a Father and a son begs the Question of a Granson a heavenly Jacob that Isaiah mentions in Isaiah 49....An Israel of God

....And the very fact that they call Jesus the bridegroom implies heavenly Children....Gods the H.G. Plural as the Stars of Heaven

But the scriptures says Hebrews 1:8....But unto the SON he says thy throne O GOD is forever and ever...A sceptre of righteounsess is the septre of thy Kingdom...

......Even in the natural a bridegroom always becomes a Father and the Children always becomes fathers....Everything has to multiply after its Kind....Even the H.G. which is the Child of Promise wants to regenerate himself in ppl....Washing us with his Word..... Titus 3:5 kjv....Multiplication of Christ Seed was that great Promise.

......Remember Jesus said blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when the son of man is revealed ....Which is when he will go forth and sow his seed in humanity the contents of the book that he finished with his own blood...That New Covenant....Bringing forth the sons of God in Humanity

When he said all mine is thine and all thine is mine proves he is equal to his FATHER and he thought it not Robbery to be equal to God his FATHER....But the law said we must honor our fathers thus he gave all honor to his father....Saying my Father is greater then i.....But even in the natural a son always becomes equal to his father and we fathers loves it so.

Even in the natural there is not 1 man who wants to see his son inferior to him....We want our sons to become equal to us....No man wants an inferior son....This is my beloveth son in whom i am well pleased...Jesus was God the son or his father was not God the father...period...ok lemme go

I have never thought about parables like you've written dear Chris, you are absolutely right in both cases for Stephen and Parables. GBU

Bro Adam,

Jesus acknowledges that his Father is his God, and Jesus also claims that he is God - like his Father.

Some see a contradiction in these two truths, and so they usually deny one, or the other of them. It has always been a challenge for some to understand this relationship of the Godhead/Trinity in human terms.

In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus tells Apostle John in "no uncertain terms" that he is God.

Revelation 1:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:11

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:17

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Revelation 1:18

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

Revelation 22:13

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

GBU

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Hi Grae. I realize you've written to Adam, but if I may, I'll just briefly write this.

You've stated, "(your belief that Jesus is not God is) totally clear to me from my reading of the whole Bible." And you feel frustrated that folk believing as you do are barracked by those who don't. I don't sense that this happens. What I do see is that one side presents their belief & the other side presents their belief & that is up for discussion, as per these Discussion Pages. If you feel that these others are heavy-handed in their presentation, then they have presented Scriptures to show the Deity of Christ & hope that folk will use those Scriptures to argue their case.

I know Adam has presented a long list of references in the past, as I have also shared some. Has anyone even attempted to discuss those verses? One person did try to discuss John 1:1-14 with me, but conveniently changed the meaning that after Jesus was born into the World, God's Word came into Him. I've often presented one particular verse ( John 17:5): "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." And none have given their understanding of this verse.

So, this can be frustrating to us also. For me, I wonder, 'have folk missed reading this verse altogether; have they read it but have their own understanding or even changed it; or, will it shake their belief, so best avoid discussion? You've read the whole Bible, you write. How do you, one who doesn't believe in the Deity of Jesus, deal with John 17:5? I would really like to know, because if I were in your position, that verse alone would shake my long-held belief severely.

Jesus Calls Matthew

Matthew 9-9-13

9. And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of customes: and he saith unto to him, Follow me. And he arose,band followed him.

10. And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12. But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I an not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Please brothers and sisters , next time u read the book of Job , think of Jesus . Apply all the things that happened to Job to Jesus . He had a life before his ministry , a job , a family (as the eldest boy he would have had to help provide for siblings etc ) think about that last temptation of Jobs : touch his flesh and he will curse thee says the devil to God . The book of Job is there for a reason . Job maintains that he has not done anything (sinned ) to deserve these punishments from God , his friends basically say that he must have (sinned ) Jesus says , the cup that God gives me shall I not drink of it ? Even though Jesus didn't sin he accepted his fate from God . Job says shall we only ever receive good things from God ? Think about these things next time u read Job .

Bro. Giannis. I also think of Stephen's dying moments, when he saw the heavens open up and seeing Jesus at the right Hand of God, he called upon Jesus to "receive my spirit" ( Acts 7:56-59). From this, I believe we can understand that Stephen fully expected to die shortly & that his spirit would be taken into God's Presence. And then "he fell asleep": not only a lifeless body remained on Earth, but also a spirit-less body.

Re: parables. My understanding is that a parable needed to conform to a couple of criteria or else it wasn't a parable. The story was to be a simple everyday account of a situation that the people could relate to and the parable would not contain any proper names. I haven't physically checked each of the parables of the Lord to verify this, but from what I can remember, all of them, bar the rich man & Lazarus account, remain faithful to that criteria.

In the Lazarus story, both Abraham & Lazarus are named & conversing with each other, and if only a parable, then Jesus implicated these two men, when in actual fact that none of this actually took place (i.e. Abraham & Lazarus weren't actual characters in this drama, but simply representative of a place of comfort & a person deserving of it). This of course is true, in the OT economy, but naming them demands that we need to understand it as an actual event with actual persons there.

Adam GBU....But i see Jesus being more God then man....He neva did sire any flesh or blood Children.....But he did sire spirits when he breathe on some I believe he was reproducing very Gods as God is Spirit....They were impregnated by his seeds, His Word as his breath was his words and his words are his seeds.....And in John 16:6... He says b/c i have spoken these Words ( his seeds ) sorrows have filled your hearts....Then he describes a woman with sorrows as being with Child.....But after the Child comes her sorrows are turned into Joy....Then he said ye therefore have sorrows but i will see you again then your sorrows will be turned into joy...At Pentacost that mighty rushing wind was the H.G. and it was a spritual birth....He saw them again in the spirit of the H.G. the Children of Promise....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me...He cd not have refered to the H.G. as the Promise of my Father if the H.G. was not the very multiplication of God....the Original Promise was multiplication of Christ seed.. WHEN GOD SWORE BY HIMSELF....And that is y the woman in Rev 12:5 is giving birth to the Children of Promise the H.G. SPIRITS.....Thus i believe that Jesus is the Father of the H.G...As the H.G. Emanuel cannot be born in humanity without the seed of Christ sown in mans hearts.....Remember what Peter said being bornagain of an incorruptible Seed by the words of our lord....Jesus said that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit...My words are spirit n life....The good seeds of our Lord are able to Reproduce very God....Thats y he is saying To whom the word ( his seed ) came it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken....Thus the H.G. IS TRULY THE GRANSON A HEAVENLY JACOB THAT 3 RD PERSON ....That is gonna result in an Israel of God that is gonna be as the Stars of Heaven....Our new heart and new spirit...the new heaven and new earth...But the Book has to be opened 1st as God told Daniel in 12...About the words of wonder th New Covenant.