Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 599

Bobby,

I would like to use a verse that almost every believer probably has memorized, and it is John 3:16 which says, "For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (in him) should not perish, but have everlasting life.

But is that all it takes to have everlasting life, just to believe in Jesus? I would have to say no. Believing in Jesus is a must, but just believing alone cannot save a person.

Here's something I would like to share about John 3:16, and other verses that use the word in. First of all, in John 3:16, the original text does not say whosoever believeth in Him. It says whosoever believeth into Him. It is the word EIS which means into, not in. This is very important because there is a difference between believing in and believing into Jesus.

You see, a person can believe in Jesus but still not surrender their life to Him. Their belief will not save them. They must experience a Spiritual birth from above. They must receive Christ. They must transfer that belief in Him to a belief into him, meaning they must be born of His Spirit (Spiritual birth), them in Christ and Christ in them.

When I read verses that say believe in Jesus, especially John 3:16, I already know that in the original text it says believe into, not believe in. And again, there is a difference. There are people who will say that all you have to do to be saved and have eternal life is believe in Jesus. But that is not true. Again, belief is important but will not save a person.

The bible tells us in James 2:19 that even the demons believe in Jesus. They know who He is but they will never surrender their life to Him. They will never believe into Him.



Just thought I'd share this!

Hellow brother Jesse

Brother Chris in one of his posts said that that verse was not clear to him, so I posted my understanding of it. I copy and paste my post to him.

"My opinion about 1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

My belief is that it talks about baptism in water in the name of Jesus. Be patient and I will explain myself.

Firstly lets read what the scripture says about baptism in water (what it really symbolizes)

Colossians 2:12

"Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3-7

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Baptism in greek means immersion, submersion)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

One may argue that the above verses are not about baptism in water, but for me their is no doubt.

So Baptism in water symbolizes burial of our old sinful person in the grave (of the water tank) and the rising up (resurrection of) a new person ready to follow a new holly life, exactly like Jesus was burried after crucifixion and was raised up from the dead.

But if Jesus was never resurrected from the dead, baptism would be in the name of a dead Jesus, that is in the name of the dead/for the dead. Ther isn't any benefit for us in such a case. If Jesus was never resurrected, we are still in our sins and we have no eternal life."

GBU

Bron,

From childhood this verse has been very special to me since it promises that the Father is so good and will give the Spirit to us when we ask HIM for this wonderful gift of Himself to us, the third person of the Trinity is given to us to abide in us and bring us in union with God. How precious is this promise!

Good morning brothers,

I tried to find the original post that began this conversation but with no luck. Anyway, I would like to speak on 1 Corinthians 15:29, not for the purpose of debate, but just to share my understanding of that verse from my studies.



It reads, as you know, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all?"

What I have noticed over the years is that this is where some of the occult groups who practice being baptized for the dead, (and it is substitutionary by the way), but they get baptized so that the person who died, if they had not been baptized and it's their belief that you have to be water baptized to be saved, they would be baptized for that person.



So if a person dies, a relative or friend can go ahead and be baptized, substituting themselves for the person that died so that they can do it for their salvation. It sounds pretty far-fetched to me, but it was all part of a pagan ritual back then. And again, some groups practice this even today.

Some of the cult groups that do baptize for the dead, this is the scripture they take and they say Paul is using this to prove there is a resurrection. In other words, "if there's no resurrection, why should we baptize for the dead? But we do baptize for the dead!"

But something that I notice in this verse, and I think this is the key, is that in Verse 29 Paul says they, not we! What shall "they" do which are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not? Why are they then baptized for the dead? I think what Paul is conveying is that the pagan ritual that they are practicing is a contradiction. They baptize for the dead but they don't believe in the resurrection of the dead. Why baptize if the person is not going to be raised?

Blessings in Christ!

Hey Chris,

I feel you have given a good analysis of that verse. The Greeks believed in an afterlife and the soul being immortal from Socrates and Plato, but not in the resurrection which Paul was teaching being a very important part of the gospel. The wording Paul used, they and not we, (why are they) as to point out what others were doing not what he was teaching.

A living person, acting as a proxy being water baptized for a deceased person most of the time of the same sex. Mormons and others still do it today, but we know death shuts the door and the ticket of destination is nonrefundable.

My understanding, the chapter starts out like Paul came back and was trying to reaffirm and straighten out some of the things they were doing. He said, "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you". He may have been confronting another group that was not following his teaching and was making a point if they did not believe in the resurrection, why are they baptizing for the dead that died before Paul brought the gospel to them.

Love your posts.

God bless,

RLW

I do not understand the meaning vs 16 - will someone please explain

THANK YOU for your help,I should have known the answer to the question I asked you.

Again Thank You and GOD bless you.

When we appreoach the throne of grace, we are remembering the death and ressurection of Christ Jesus! When you attend the church or the synagogue, we are remembering a moment in time, not 2000 yrs ago, but comming in the here and now! That this our savior has died and ressurrected, that we have life in Him in the here and now!

That we too shall appear before Him the same way He has left us, that we will put on incorruption and become like Him!

Paul, proclaims His witness, and those of the apostles, that what they teach is the unfathonable realities of eternal life!

That if, we believe! We should be filled with joy and revelation that are in His loyal word, knowing these things are real!!! The next time you take the sacrament ,remember that you are taking the body and blood of this person! The Son of God the Savior of the world!

Repent and be Baptized

Kenaket When you read the words John 3:16 and 17 then you begin to see the Great love of God displayed and

made known by Jesus Christ and notice 17 for God sent his Son NOT TO CONDEMN the world but that the world through Him

might be saved. Also next verse the condition you have to believe nothing gets done without believing and that requires

action based on Gods word on what to do. Romans 8:28-39 look at who has our back and also 2 Peter 1-8 those who believe

through the knowledge of God and act on that knowledge will never fail. So the draw is Gods love and only the scriptures

show it. Agapeo

Amen Bron.

God bless.

Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Thank you for the scripture references.

Regarding "into a three-sixty?" I try to keep an open mind to correction and what is truth. Truth though must be true throughout if it be true. It cannot contradict itself nor be in some parts uncertain and others sure. It is unalterable, eternal, and unambiguous. It can be unrecognized,but cannot be changed.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. I believe in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ first and foremost. After Jesus died on the cross He said: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. I believe in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the word "HOW" is very important. I do take seriously every word written in the KJV Bible. I would listen to men, and ultimately God directed me to read and tell the truth according to His will. We are all so bless in so many ways after Jesus died. He gave us a very gracious free gift. All we need to do is to die with Him with our flesh and live and walk in the Holy Spirit He freely give to those wanted to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. ONE account sited in the Bible that they received the Holy Spirit by Peter and John laying hands. It does not hurt to get wet. But necessary to understand the blood Jesus Christ shed for our sins according to scriptures. Then, you will know the Kingdom of God here on earth. Agape.

Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth .

The wicked shall be gathered up and burned . So being left behind is a really good thing .

Luke 11:13

If you then , being evil , know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him ?

That was Jesus speaking .

Wow do you understand this ?

No need to take God at his word , just ask him in obedience, and trust him . Of course you desire to be led by the the Holy Spirit and not doing your own thing right ?

The word of God instructs us .

When you are blessed by the Holy Spirit in any measure you will know it , love , joy , peace are fruits of the spirit . So do not settle for a dead word only . God and his Holy Spirit are life changers . Amen ?

GiGi

In Jesus Name Amen.

I'm so happy after I prayed with you in agreement .

I believe that will answer and grant the prayer of the faithful mothers.

Yes the Holy Spirit is always within us believers. Thank you for reminding me.

I want to say goodnight to you my dear , have a restful sleep.

God be with you always !

Page 2.

For what it's worth, I've for a long time held the opinion that "the dead" refers to the place of the dead, i.e. the grave. And so I read the verse, 'what shall they do which are baptized (i.e. those identifying with Christ), just to go to the grave & remain there. Why are they saved & baptized just to lie in the grave (to where the dead go)? Why do we (Paul & others) stand in jeopardy every hour, just to disappear into eternity?' That's why Christ's Resurrection was so important, & for this added reason, that it is a promise that those in Christ will also be raised from the grave (v20, "Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept"). And v17, "If Christ be not raised, your faith is vain (worthless); ye are yet in your sins".

Your understanding is certainly worthy of consideration (as I've never considered it in that way), but we have the hurdle to overcome with the phrase, "for the dead", which seems to not apply to a single person but to multiple people, or even the graves of many people. You thoughts brother - or from anyone else.

Dear Brianna,

Our standing with God is not determined on how we feel or if we feel the Holy Spirit in us. If you are a believer, it is a fact that the Holy Spirit lives in you always and does not leave you. Be consoled by this. Our measure of God's presence within us is not based on physical sensations or even in experiencing manifestations of the Holy Spirit. It is based on the validity of the promises in Scripture. Peter said at Pentecost to the people gathered who wanted to know how to be saved. He told them to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized, and they will receive the Holy Spirit. This is the truth and it is the promise Jesus made at the Last Supper-that He will send His Holy Spirit who will be with us and in us.

Jesus also promised to be with us, never leave us nor forsake us, forever.

And He abides in us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who causes us to abide in God.

So, we can always repent of sin and unbelief when we doubt God and think we need to be saved all over again. We will be forgiven and God will help us to grow to stronger faith in Him and in His Word and promises.

Sometimes we just need to slow down and seek God without all of the hype that can accompany some "worship" services that generate a lot of energy and emotional responses that is sometimes mistaken for "feeling the Holy Spirit." We experience Him in the quiet of prayer and meditation on Him and His Word more often than not, and we are aware of Him working in our lives in answered prayer and in confirmations in our circumstances that we cannot make occur even if we tried to make these confirmations happen.

Be of good cheer, Brianna. Put your trust in God, not in experiences. He is faithful and just. He is always good. He is always awesome. He is always near to us. Our hearts know this is true.

To Brother Giannis.

Page 1.

Thanks Giannis for responding to the 1 Corinthians 15:29 dilemma, though I wasn't particularly soliciting a response - just giving an example to Ronnette on some Scriptures that are clear to some & other Scriptures that are unclear, as the 1 Corinthians example might show.

I do fully agree with you that this verse speaks of water baptism & specifically concerning the resurrection of Jesus (as this chapter is all about that). When I read of your understanding of that verse (v 29), I note that you apply the "baptism for the dead" to refer to 'baptism unto Jesus Who died but never arose from the grave'.

You might also be aware of other interpretations of that verse. Such as, 'Paul referring to a practise of baptizing new believers who take the place of those departed (the dead)'. Or, 'being baptized vicariously for another to assure that person has a place in Heaven' (this is heresy, I believe). Or, 'those baptized because of & through the testimony of those who had died' (again, a bad understanding I feel).

Your understanding has merit, except that when I read that verse with that thought in mind, I ask, 'why would Paul describe baptism "for the dead" is such terms, when he could have easily have stated (& in line with his earlier verses), using Jesus' Name?' It seems very peculiar for Paul to write it like that, and then say that 'people are being baptized for the dead (plural)'. Even though the plural may not be in the Greek (you could clarify this), the sentence construction appears to indicate that it is those who have died, & not just one person being referred to.

Does God draw all people to salvation?

Thank you brother for your response. I will post my response in a new thread as this one is on another matter to Ronnette & by adding an unrelated question to it, it might become too cumbersome & lose focus.

LaTonya,

so good to hear from you. I have been thinking of you and wondering if there were problems with your transplant. Glad to know that God brought you through it.

Yes, and we can thank the family of the one from whom you received this heart. They have had a great loss, and yet, they were generous to donate the heart to one who needs it. May God bless them richly and bring them to salvation if they are yet unconverted.

Latonya, I pray that you continue to get stronger and stronger. I pray that you have many years to live. I pray that God will use your testimony to bring others to salvation in the name of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Have restful sleep tonight, LaTonya.

Bobby,

I'll try to redo Part 4 as best as I can remember.

So I ask myself, why does my sin matter in my relationship with God?

I go to Romans 1:18

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men..." (NIV) Whoa!

And in 2:8

"..but to those whoa re self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, tribulation and guish, on every soul that does evil..." (NIV)

And 3:10 says:

"As it is written:

There is none righteous, no, not one...."

and in 3:23

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

And 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

(All NIV, being the translation I have on hand at home.)

So, this tells me that I am guilty and ungodly before God.

Romans 6:6 tells me that "For when we were still without strength, in due time, Christ died for the ungodly."

and Vs. 8 But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

and Vs. 10 "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins...."

Well, we all stand guilty and are all dead to God in our sins, and are enemies to God until we are reconciled to God by the death and resurrection of Jesus, through whom we are regenerated and made alive to God. So, I think, it is good to be alive to God and not good at all to be dead in sin. so, my sin matters to God in that it separates me from Him.

So, I think, why would I want to be reconciled to Him, aside from avoiding being under his wrath and judgment? What is it about God that would make me consider turning to Him? In my sinful state, I would not want to turn to Him, but even then, the Holy Spirit works in me to turn me to God by grace! I am to believe that and act of the grace given to me

Hi Giannis ,

Yes indeed.

Very well said too.

God bless you

HMM Bobby, it seems that part 4 is missing. don't know where it is. Well, it is what it is tonight. have a good sleep.

Hi Fred Scanlan,

Thank you!

Yes I will.

Big time prayer is always my weapon against the unbelief.

"Do you believe the words of Apostle Peter? Peter speaks directly about when we are baptized we receive God's Holy Spirit!"

The word, "receive," and "Holy Spirit" are never found in the same verse in the KJV.

On the other hand, "receive/received" and "Holy Ghost" are found here:

John 7:39

John 20:22

Acts 1:8

Acts 2:33

Acts 2:38

Acts 3:21

Acts 8:15

Acts 8:17

Acts 8:19

Acts 9:17

Acts 10:47

Acts 19:2 ("Holy Ghost" is mentioned twice here.)

1 Thessalonians 1:6

Anything we can learn from this?

Just on your reference to Master. I've always understood the word to mean 'teacher', as in Matthew 10:25, & many other verses.

Just checked the Greek word for it & it seems to confirm it. If you're of my vintage, we always referred to our male teachers as 'Master', at least in my very early school years (based on the British classification of Master & Mistress). Yet certainly, the idea of subservience is very evident by virtue of the position of the two parties, though unlikely that of a servant/slave.

Thanks for sharing what you did - always helpful & soul-nourishing.

The narrow path of the Gospels.

There are some churches that still read a fair amount of scripture today. You may be in the statistically few that preach of a real hell and judgment of the wicked. It is rarer still to really hear the Gospels being preached as they are. Usually; if not almost always it is the basic message of belief in Christ; and salvation and sometimes a proper emphasis on the subject of Predistination as heavily emphasized in the Book of John (i.e. the "grace gospel"). For some reason Christ's love seems to be seen as the overturning of the tables being the only exception to his annoyance. This misnomer is counterindicated by numerous references; and often toward the Disciples about their unbelief. They were said many times to "harden their hearts"; and as the more well known rebuke to Peter where Christ said "get thee behind me Satan" ( Matt. 16:23 and again in Mark); we also need to see that Peter was rebuking Him. On top of this was family members saying that He was out of His mind; disciples trying to tell Him how to be a King; arguing who was the greatest (of which He gave an amazingly merciful response) and other situations. He was angry with the Pharisees; and also with the Disciples not getting what the meaning of unclean hearts are as contrasted with outward ceremonial law or just traditions of men. There is of course a difference in chastising His own and His warnings about say; blasphemy of the Spirit. Another seemingly overlooked passage is that when the Pharisees rebuked Him for healing or doing the "work" of eating grains on the Sabbath Day. He certainly wasn't inhibited in such activities; at the very least He recognized work as the Father Himself is always working. He is just following suit. When we look at passages like all the Disciples deserting Him; the best thing we can do is ask "help us with our unbelief". Many are tares; others will have to recieve severe rebuke to get them back on the right path.

Always hold on to your first love, hold it tight, never let go. Keep the sin of unbelief away!

God bless!