Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 625

Hello Chris, it's always nice to talk to you. What you have written in your post seems to be right. But let me explain my thoughts.

God offers salvation, man has to accept it. We often talk about works that do not bring salvation to people. But we often call works things that are not works. Is believing in Jesus and acceptance of His sacrifice a work or not? According to the definition that I have read in posts so far, yes it is since it is something that a man does. So also obeying God's commandments are works of men? That do not save? But that is playing with words, isn't it? In our relationship with God a part is always done by God and a part is always done by man

Noe was selected by God to be saved. God offered him and his family salvation. But He also showed them the way to be saved. They had to build a ship. To do a work. If Noe didn't

do that was he going to be saved? The answer is no he wasn't. So back now to NT when God says that the one who believes and (then)is baptised will be saved, the one who doesn't believe (and subsequently is not baptised) will not be saved, what do we understand? Do we understand that that is an obligation for salvation or a choice? I believe the former. As I replied to brother Doug since John and Jesus had to do their share in Jesus' baptism, then it means that it was an obligation so that God's righteousness was fulfilled. So isn't it the same with us, since the same commandment is written for us as well? If Jesus wasn't willing to be baptized would His work for man's salvation proceed? No.

So whether we consider baptism as a means of salvation or just a commandment that we must obey it doesn't really matter, it still remains a requirement for salvation. Like Noe it is the way shown to us to live and not die, the spiritual death.

Now if somebody is in no position to obey God like the thief on the cross next to Jesus who couldn't be baptized, of course God doesn't held him accountable for that.

Thanks for your reply Chris GBU

Predestination (Part 2):

Here is the Ephesians text: Ephesians 1:4-5 says "According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world."

Remember Verses 3 through 14 is all one sentence in the Greek text. And I want to make a technical point. Whenever you have a noun, like a person, and you mention this person's name, and throughout the paragraph or chapter, you want to make reference to that person, you don't keep mentioning his name.

Let's say his name is Jesse. You don't keep saying Jesse in every sentence. Once you're introduced to the person, you make reference to "him," and "he."

Those are all pronouns and its antecedent is Jesse so that whenever you see he or him in the sentences, you know who this person is talking about.

So Jesse becomes the antecedent once it's introduced. Now what is interesting, do you see the pronouns? According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.

Who is the "Us?" And that we should be holy without blame before Him in love. Having predestinated us for adoption.

In this text, in Verses 3 through 14, the subject in the Greek text is in Verses 13 and 14 way beyond all of this. So the antecedent to us and we, who is the us and we?

So I got to find out who or what the antecedent is for us and we. If you go to Verses 13 and 14, it tells you. "We who have heard the gospel, we who have believed, and we who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of God. That's who the us and we are!

God has predestinated us, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ. The adoption process has been predestined for us so that we can become children of God, according as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. Later on it says that He has predestinated us to be holy without blame, just like He did in Verse 4.

Predestination (Part 1):

I would like to share my understanding on predestination. This may be a little long, but I think it is an important topic that should be addressed.

I am reading over Romans 8:29 which reads, "For whom he did foreknow, (know ahead of time), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Please allow me to share a little bit with you about predestination. Actually, predestination in the bible is very simple to understand. In Ephesians 1:3-14, in the Greek text, these verses are all one sentence. And that's the chapter that most people focus on when it comes to predestination.

The most prominent teaching on predestination that we have today comes from John Calvin and there are differences, as people take different turns with it as to what predestination means.

But the one that's going around that people hold to a lot is that predestination means that God predestines or chooses those who are going to be saved ahead of time, and He predestines those who are going to go to Hell ahead of time.

So according to that belief, you are chosen and predestined as to whether you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. You have no choice. There's no free will according to this teaching. You are either predestined one way or the other.

But please notice in this text, in context, what it says. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate." Predestinate what? "To be conformed to the image of his Son."

Predestination is never associated with salvation in the bible. You will always see the word associated with those who are already saved. And it won't be salvation. It's what has been predestined or chosen for us as part of our inheritance.

Dear Jennifer, I read this request of yours often here. I pray for you when I do. I hope you are doing well and are able to keep up with the demands of your work.

Dear Heavenly Father, help Jennifer today and every day she goes to work and completes what is asked of her in her job. Give her strength and clearness of mind so that she can do a worthy job for her boss and customers. Sustain her throughout the day with Your Presence and strength. And when she returns home after work, give her restful sleep. We sk this of You Father, in the nameof Your Son, Jesus. Amen.

Hebrews 6: 1

what does it mean to "leave the doctrines of Christ" and to go on into perfection...should we leave the "doctrines of Christ"?

Dear GiGi

Thank you for your insight.

I am a truth seeker.

Many ideas exist about our Lord the Bible does not support.

That is how I know I am following what is true, if the Bible supports the belief I will believe.

By this, I know better than to follow the David Koreshes or any other false doctrines.

I hear about people following men's teachings the Bible does not support and many lives end in tragedy.

Therefore, what Peter taught is true, if we rest the Scriptures it is to our own destruction. ( 2 Peter 3:16)

I only go by the Bible and any doctrine that the Bible supports.

The Bible teaches we lived with God before the world was formed and you believe we lived in His thoughts I understand.

But there are more Biblical passages saying we lived with Him, literally, before the world was and I believe we lived with Him as spirits.

Listen to the prophet Micaiah speaking to the king of Israel and the king of Judah,

Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. ( 2 Chronicles 18-21)

Hello Giannis GBU ....But let me have your attention for just a sec.....The nite he was betrayed he took the cup and said this is

MY blood of the New COVENANT...Drink ye all of it....The Cross was a New Covenant in his blood for the sins of the world including mans Conscience....If water baptism cd have given us a clean Conscience then Jesus shed his blood in vain...And there wd have been no need for the shedding of his blood or a New Covenant....Water baptism was fine b/f the CROSS THAT NEW COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD....Many in the early Church was still water bapting....But the Church was young....They didn't realize the enomity and Vastness of the Cross that New COVEANT IN HIS BLOOD....It was God Almighty that initiated this New Covenant with the blood of his only son.

...... Hebrews 9 : 14...How much more shall the BLOOD of Christ Jesus Who thru the eternal Spirit that was without spot offer up himself to God purge your CONSCIENCE from dead works to serve the Living God.

....Thats what God was trying to tell Peter in that vision...What i have made clean ( by the blood of the lamb my New Blood Covenant ) do not call common or unclean by commanding water baptism.....Which was beautiful b/f the Cross....But when Jesus said it was finished that was the end of that old covenant....Now its the lamb of God....Even John who gave us water baptism said behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...John neva said behold water baptism....John tells Jesus i have need to be baptised of you....impling H.G. BAPTISM.

...Even in the O.T. They had to apply blood to the doorpost...They cd not apply water to the doorpost....But now under this New Covenant we apply the blood to the doorpost of our hearts...By hearing his words that incorruptible seed that is gonna form a baby Christ in us....This New Covenant is a birthing Covenant thats y he has to know us....Thats y he is saying unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child..She brought forth a manchild.

What happens to the people at the rapture that was before Jesus.?

I've heard they found hidden books of the Bible and that there's actually 777 books. Do you have these or maybe get them?

Thank you.

Hellow Doug

My understanding of the words Jesus said is as follows.

For God's righteousness to be fulfilled, Jesus had to walk under the Law, stay sinless, and then sacrifice Himself as a representative of the human race. God's judgement/ righteousness was fulfilled since He punished Jesus for all the sins men did, do and will do till the very end. God is love, but He is justice as well. This means that He HAS to punish people who sin. But instead of people He punished Jesus. All these are known, I am just reminding them. So now when we sin and ask for Jesus' Blood, God forgives us, and consider us as righteous. That is how God's righteousness was/is fulfilled. Well, for that to be done Jesus had to walk like an ordinary man, get baptized by John, since it was a commandment, and obey the law. If Jesus had to do that, starting His path/ministry with baptism why some of us consider that baptism in water is a choise? Was it a choice for Jesus? No it wasn't. Jesus said that they both have to go along with baptism. Jesus had to be baptized and John had to baptize Him. That is why Jesus said "us" for the fulfillment of God's righteousness. Both Had to do their share. I often see christian life as a ladder. One has to go to step one then to step two and so on. The first steps are new birth and baptism. Now one may jump over some steps but he'll get himself in a trouble, because it is God that planned the ladder/path not us.

Thanks for the reply, I liked your comment about Word of God being the water in new birth in the discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus. To my opinion It's right. There is a belief in some christians that that water is the water of baptism, but no it isn't. But this can be another topic for discussion later on.

GBU

Bro Giannis,

One of the Main Events in the bible. Jesus is baptized and receives the Holy Spirit and it pleases God! If this isn't a learning teachable event for us - nothing is! Jesus provided us with his examples to follow, hence as Christ followers we should be striving to follow Him.

Matthew 3:16

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"

Jesus shows us how it is done, and if He does it, and instructs everyone to do it, where do we improve our standing with God - if we ignore His command?

Jesus commands the diciples to baptize believers.

Matthew 28:19

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

If the apostles would have ignored Jesus command to baptize would this have been good for them? If all of the apostles, including Paul believed that baptism was required, why should we believe any different than they?

Peter tells us that when we repent, and submit to baptism we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

So, Jesus/God tells us in so much scripture, that when we believe, repent, and get baptized - we are forgiven of our sins, and we receive the Holy Spirit!

The above scripture is so easy to understand, even a child can understand the need to follow God's instructions regarding this issue.

GBU

what is the power of christian humility ?

Hi,

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Also see Matthew 6:9-13 on how Jesus prayed.

I start of a prayer by addressing our Heavenly Father, Dear God, ...

And ending off, In Jesus' name (our mediator)

Hi Kenzella , read your Bible , pray to your Heavenly Father , trust in Him and be patient . May God bless you and your children in all the ways that He knows that you need His blessings most .

You're Welcome.

God bless you.

I think this is an interesting statement Jesus said before he was baptized. Notice he didn't say I by myself will fulfill all righteousness. Matthew 3:15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him". For a true "personal relationship" it takes both parties contributing to the relationship. We need to yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit walking uprightly and not just trust in the righteousness of Christ.

Mari lyn,

thank you again for sharing

I can confirm this, the same Mighty and High Spirit, that came to Cornelius, and to all his!

has come to you also, and to all yours!,

in JESUS most high name

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

EVEN SIMON PETER WATER BAPTISED, CEPHAS THE ROCK, ON WHOM THE FOUNDATION OF THE CHURCH IS BUILT. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of GOD.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Thank You JESUS for Mari lyn

Become all our Father has for you Mari lyn

Faithful is He that calleth thee, who also will do it

Glory to GOD our Father, and blessed is His glorious name for ever.

I thank our LORD JESUS for your comment.

I agree with you.

If a man loves Me,

he will keep My words,

And My Father will love him,

And We will come unto him,

and make our abode with him

And I also agree, When we seek, water baptism is found.

If a man loves our LORD JESUS , who first loved us, he keeps the WORD of GOD,

and he will find, seek Ye FIRST! And he will seek what is first.

For why would our LORD say to Nicomdemus, in John chapter 3,

Verily verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water, and of the Spirit,

He can not enter the kingdom of GOD.

Concerning Peter,

We must read the whole chapter, and the truth is easy to see, when we seek what we are told to seek.

So we see, the vision Peter had, speaks nothing of baptism , in any way at all.

The man that came to Peter, is Cornelius, and He is from the Italian band, a whole different nation.

Acts 10:28

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Peters vision is of Jew and Gentile

Remain blessed in our JESUS.

our Father continually direct your path,

and give you strength to acknowledge Him in all your ways.

Our Father LIVES in His PRAISES,

PERFECT PRAISE

Blessed be the beautiful name of JESUS

HALLELUJAH GLORY BE TO GOD FOR EVER

JESUS is the way, the truth, and the life;

No man comes to the Father,

but by Him.

I and the Father are one

Blessed art thou, O LORD GOD of our fathers:

and to be praised and exalted above all for ever.

Without FAITH, it is impossible to please GOD

Romans 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from FAITH to FAITH:

as it is written, The just shall live

Romans 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly,

according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of FAITH.

Ephesians 4:13

Till we all come in the unity of the FAITH, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

this, is every man's walk in CHRIST JESUS, seeking our Fathers Kingdom, from faith to faith, growing in our Redeemer and beautiful LORD JESUS.

HIS HOLY SPIRIT, HE DECIDES THIS!

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I though as a child:

but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

CHRIST JESUS, HE DOES THIS,

HE WHO THE SON SETS FREE IS FREE INDEED.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:

now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

What say I then?

Walk in the Spirit and Ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;

But the greatest of these is charity

let all things be done decent and in order.

We lift our WONDERFUL REDEEMER CHRIST JESUS HIGH ,

and JESUS! LORD and KING,

He DOES draw all me unto Him

Increase in FAITH be multiplied to you, And much blessings also, in the beautiful name of our LORD JESUS

Glory to You a Father GOD for ever , Amen

Hi Jason , I believe there are many different ways to fast . It doesn't just have to be about not eating for a day or so , though you could do that if you wish . You could maybe just give up something that you really like for a week or however long you choose . Maybe give up meat for a week ? Or alcohol or watching t.v. or the internet ? It depends on what you like . If you save any money by giving something up you could maybe give what you've saved to a charity ? Don't use your car for a week ? There are loads of ways to deny yourself and honour God with your substance . Many people don't have many luxuries in order to give them up so it might just be a very small thing like chocolate . Each to their own but I don't believe that any of us should actually endanger their life , certain health conditions mean people have to eat and drink regularly , how about coffee ? If you drink a lot of that and really love it to go without would definately be a sacrifice . I'm sure you can think of something . As to your question , I don't believe it's an essential part of being a Christian but it's not a bad thing to do . We have a lot of liberty in Christ , that's a nice thing as long as we don't abuse it . Much love to you in Christ .

Hi Nancy , personally , pray to God , my Heavenly Father . I thank Him and if I ask Him for anything it's always through the mediatorship of my sinless high priest in heaven , Jesus Christ . So , sometimes during my prayer I might say ' through the name of Jesus Christ I thank you Dear Heavenly Father for.....' or ' I ask you through the name of Jesus Christ .....' and at the very end I usually say something like ' Thy will be done , through Jesus Christ my sinless redeemer , or my sinless high priest or Your only begotten sinless Son ' That's just me , I'm sure you will get some different answers . You need to convince your own conscience about what you believe to be correct and the best way is...to read the Bible , all of it . May God guide you into all His Truth .

Rejoice evermore, HALLELUJAH JESUS , Pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks for this is the will of GOD in CHRIST JESUS concerning thee,

Quench not the Spirit

Ephesians 5:20

Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

James 5:14

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Seek Ye first the kingdom of GOD FIRST! And His righteousness FIRST!

And these other things shall be added unto thee.

Glory be to GOD ALMIGHTY, even our Father,

and to our LORD JESUS CHRIST for ever and ever

peace and happy and LOVE consume you on our wonderful JESUS amen and amine

Matthew 6:5-34, Matthew 7:7-27, Matthew 10:29-33, John 14:11-28, John 15, note John 15:16, John 16:23,24,26,27,

Honestly, I've had answered prayer in very immediate dangerous situations, just crying "GOD, help me" possibly even just "GOD" it's possibly because GOD knows if we love Jesus. Romans 8:27,

Hopefully these are helpful

Dear Nancy Burns, we always pray in Jesus Holy name.

God see us thru the glory of Jesus. Only Jesus is Worthy we are His followers. Stay strong in the word of God. Good bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ

Luke 5:1-11

Who will be the Two Witnesses in the End Times.

For I have scriptural answer to it and I need your comments.

Hello Vicki. Ps. Dollar would have quoted from Malachi 3:8-10. He would probably also have said that this passage pertained to Israel who neglected to perform all that was required of them. In one passage ( Deuteronomy 12:6,11), the LORD instructed Israel that when they got to the Promised Land, that all their sacrifices, offerings, tithes, & vows were to come over as well & nothing to be left behind or undone. But in Malachi, the tithes that were made (the tenth of their farm produce gain) were not being brought forward & kept back by them. These tithes were needed & used by the priests & Levites serving at the Tabernacle for their support.

This command of tithing wasn't given nor applied to the Church, as the Church (at least in New Testament times), didn't have paid clergy or even a rented building & utilities supplied. Their giving was for the needs of one another & maybe their community ( Acts 2:41-47), thereby fulfilling the Command of Christ to love the LORD thy God and to love your neighbour as yourself. But as the Church grew & spread, the Apostle Paul made the believers aware that some of their Jerusalem brethren weren't doing so well in material things. So Paul sometimes collected stuff to take to them ( 1 Corinthians 16:1-3). So apart from these instances of providing relief to those in need, we don't read that tithing was practised. Rather, that Christians should not give grudgingly but willingly & cheerfully ( 2 Corinthians 9:6-8).

So, as much as tithing is not prescribed for the Church today, I believe that it should be a proper & sacrificial response to help in the support of a Church ministry, that now has far more expenses than the early Church. And not limited to a tenth on one's earnings, but also to share more if possible for other programs & missionary endeavours of the Church. But we're not limited to giving ten percent nor are we compelled to do so.

Part 3.

Mathew 22:37.

I'm indebted to a dear Brother on this site for sharing this in the Greek perspective.

"Thou shalt love" is not in command form. That is a Future Active Indicative in the Greek text. It is not a command. It is a factual statement. You will love!

The command in the Old Testament is YOU WILL love the Lord your God, and YOU WILL love your neighbor as yourself. It is a factual statement!

If you notice the word "with." Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Well, it is the Greek word EN, which means in.

All three prepositional phrases are "in." You will love the Lord your God (in) your whole heart, and (in) your whole soul and (in) your whole mind.

Please notice the location?

I am not going to love with it. I am going to be in it. It is going to be in me, in my inner being. That is how it is literally translated in the Greek.

You see, God gives us the ability to love Him because in the natural, we do not have that capability. So Jesus says this is the first commandment.

Is it a commandment? No,

The commandment is YOU WILL. There is no choice there! It is not an invitation like I hope you will, or could you, or should you.

You will, because God's Spirit is the one who has the love. He is the one who loves. And when you have God's Spirit in you, you are in God's love.

And we have to be sensitive to the fact that AGAPE love is not an action, something we have to go out and do. Agape love is a person. That person is Christ. And if we have Christ, we will love Him with all our heart, mind, and soul. And we will love our neighbor (fellow believer) as ourselves. It's not a command for us to go out and do. It is something we will do because His Spirit in us gives us the ability to do so!

Thank You Brother, for that Material.

You see an example of this with Peter in John 21:15-17.

Will share more on this over the weekend.

God bless.

Here by we know.

Part 2.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.We love him, because he first loved us.If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?And this commandment have we from him, Thathe who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.

Notice the last part of verse 21, "And this commandment have we from him, "That he who loveth God love his brother also" HE WHO LOVETH GOD LOVE HIS BROTHER ALSO! This is not asking you to do anything, it is telling you what is being done by God spirit being in you!

(And hereby we do know that we know him,) if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Keep in mind this verse about loving "the brethren". This is Agape! This is a fruit; you don't produce this, you are the branch, you bare it.

see part 3

Part 1.

Here by we know.

A Child of God can and should examine themselves.

I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,

Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.

Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.

Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.

This is virtue by being in him and him in you.

see part 2.

Page 2.

Then to 1 Peter 3:21. Again, we see Peter use the phrase 'good conscience', as he did in verse 16. As a 'good conscience' is important to the believer in his confident stand against the forces of evil against him, so also is a 'good conscience' that water baptism provides in his spiritual stand before God & the world. God already knows who belongs to Him (those expressing repentance & faith) - water baptism is immaterial. Water baptism is solely for the benefit of the new convert, for 'conscience-sake'. And obedience? That is the responsibility of the one leading the sinner to Christ ( Romans 10:13-15), to obey the command to follow through with baptizing the convert - not for the baptizee to initiate or obey.

So, I trust that you can see that my understanding on water baptism is simply an event post-saving faith & not contributing to it - an act of identification & clear conscience only. If not, then not only an outward action is needed to secure salvation, there are also many false Christians out there who are yet to be baptized, or physically unable to go into the waters, on their death bed, or neglected by the Church. And we can't make excuses for these poor souls, since 'baptism is (as you believe) necessary for salvation'.