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Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
I have a question for all fellow christians who do not consider that Jesus is God.(hello Ronald, I saw your comment and I was reminded of something I was thinking lately.)
Let me do an introduction before going to my point. When we talk with people from the Orthodox church who often pray to saints or to Mary Jesus' mother, we ask them how is it possible that they hear you all, millions and millions of you, they are not Gods after all. So many millions of people pray to Mary, how is she able to hear them all and, as they claim, she often responds. She is not God, only God can do that.
So I come to what I want to say. Somewhere in NT, Jesus says that when two or more are gathered in His name then He is there among them. How is that possible if Jesus is not God. Because at the same time I believe thousands of congregations take place in the whole world. To do such a thing one must have divine properties. He also said somewhere that when we ask something in His name then He will do that. How can He hear millions of prayers simultaneously if He is not God.
Expecting for your opinion.
So true, we don't think about it much but for many years the Old Testament was the only Scripture the early Church had and they had to go to synagogues to here them.
God bless,
RLW
There is much in this chapter, your question is God in this verse the Godhead or the Father?
To answer; in context Jesus was telling parables and the Pharisees, and the Sadducees were trying to trip Jesus up. These verses were about the resurrection, the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, but the Sadducees did not. In verse 31 Jesus asked them haven't you read; Job 19:25-27 Psalm 17:15 Psalm 49:15 "which was spoken unto you by God" so Jesus is referring to His Father who is God.
What does the word Godhead mean? Does it mean a Triune God? It is in three verses, Acts 17:29 Rom. 1:20 Col. 2:9. Translated from Greek words which means divine, divinity, or deity, that was replaced with another English word that was not a word until the 1500s and placed only in these three verses and the reason is questionable.
Study for your conscience in prayer with an open mind and through the Holy Spirit, God will show you the truth.
God bless,
RLW
Even the "Shema Yisrael" ( Deuteronomy 6:4,5) is Israel's central belief & affirmation on the singularity of God's Person, & any suggestion of a 'compound' Nature of God would be anathema. Also Isaiah 53:1-12 and Isaiah 9:6,7 references to a coming Messiah, which should clearly reveal the Divine Nature of a Coming One, is discarded by them, then & now. So, anything of a Triune God must be rejected by the Jew, & only the operation of God by His Spirit (i.e. God revealing Himself & working before them) should be acceptable to them (e.g. Psalm 51:10,11; Isaiah 11:2; & many others). As believers though, we can see the Triune God in operation in the whole Bible, but Israel is blinded to this Truth & their hearts hardened.
When Jesus came & spoke (e.g. John 16:27,28; John 17:5), He declared His Divine Nature, that which was not revealed before. So your reference ( Matthew 22:32), speaks primarily of the One Nature of God; but to those who believe, having received salvation through Jesus Christ, know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob was always the Triune God, Who would one day manifest Himself fully to a needy world: God's Word first by the prophets, now given through His Word made flesh ( Hebrews 1:1-3) . What Israel knew of the One God then, should have revealed the full Nature of a Triune God at the appearance of their Messiah. But their eyes were blinded & hearts hardened. Therefore, as Christians, I believe that we should see God (in the OT & NT) as a Triune God, manifesting Himself also as His Word and His Spirit going forth to accomplish His Will over His creation.
In receiving Christ as the Savior the believer is tagged as the number Seven. Seven in a primary sense is determined in heaven. It speaks for the mystery of his Will. As a new creation The word is his heart or he abides in Christ.(Col.3:1-3). In short Seven is made up of 3+4 (where the sum of 3 the tag for the Son and 4 for the Word become flesh.)
This brings us to the beast, the son of perdition in whom the word of God has no place; neither does he acknowledge the supremacy of the Son.
Satan as destroyer is the angel gone rogue. The Spirit introduces Goliath as epitome of spiritual wickedness in high place (Ge.6:1-3). He is a giant a tag as the number 6 signifies. While describing the person the Spirit gives a list of sixes: his height 6 cubits and the steel point of his javelin weighed 6x100 shekels. It ties with another giant, "And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.." (2 Sa.21:20)
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not./ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets." (Matt.24:23-24) We are looking at the present times. False Christs and false prophets have their spiel to deceive the unwary. Jesus shall appear as a sign, "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (24:27-30)
He appears to gather and not for reigning the disobedient children of wrath on the earth. "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."(Re.1:7)
We see the number 6 associated with Judgment. In the Book of Ezekiel we find six men came by 'the higher gate... every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; (Ez.9:2) Among them one had the writer's inkhorn by his side. God commands him to set a mark upon the foreheads of the men who should be spared from the slaughter of the city. This is a vision but the Spirit inserts the mark, which was earlier introduced in the episode of Abel-Cain episode. It shall be sustained till the end when the saints are described having the name of the Father written on their foreheads( Re.22:4).
Martyrs for the Word of God are those who had not worshiped the Beast (Re.20:4). They shall reign with Jesus Christ in his Messiah aspect. It is the Millennial Reign. It is in heaven. In the new heaven and in the new earth, there was no more sea. (Re.21:1) The overcomers are enclosed within. "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Re.3:12). So we are looking at the mid air.
"but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle." (Ex.33:11) The holy city of God has nothing more to do with earth; Jerusalem or sea.
Coming back to the significance of the number we see another group having a mark, either on the foreheads or on their hands. The number is 666 or the Mark of the Beast.
It is not difficult to understand where the authority of the Beast would come from. Satan as destroyer is the angel gone rogue.
Before Satan is totally annihilated he shall wreak havoc on the Children of disobedience. So the ravage is on the spirit, soul and body of man. It is indicated by 6-6-6, each representing the area of corruption. The Spirit set whole man a tripartite creation to represent Triune God.
To quote 'we are looking at the name from the standpoint of God. He named the heaven, the earth and so on. So holiness of God as testified by his Son reflects on the name he acquired above every other name.' In the Book of Genesis' after making Adam a living soul God brings his creation to Adam. "And whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."(Ge.2:19) As mentioned earlier the Spirit presents from the standpoint of the Father and the last book is about the fulfillment of the will of his Father. He is in his majesty and he promises the churches as an overcomer.
Jesus Christ was the Word become flesh and he overcame the world."In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."( John 16:33). So holiness of God, "Be ye holy for I am holy" is the characteristic of the holiness where his grace and truth rounds off each one. The name of the Father is written on His servants. The first fruits, " having his Father's name written in their foreheads.: have their new song. What Jesus Christ promised is the seal of righteousness like the amulet, "Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death;"(The Song 8:6; Re.14:1-3)
Genesis began with, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." and the same after Jesus Christ has fulfilled the divine Will is seen from the POV of the church. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." It is not God but John is recording it.
I think everyone on here knows that this is a site that hosts the KJV Bible to be read and offers a forum for people to share their biblical ideas. There is nowhere on this site that states that only the KJV can be discussed to the exclusion of any other translation. I think it is erroneous to insist that this is so. I also think that it does not promote peace among us when some insist on this site being something that it does not claim to be.
Jema, I enjoy conversing with you when you do respond to me. I hope we can continue to do so even when we disagree on some things. I keep you in my prayers often along with most people that post here. What a blessed opportunity to intercede for one another!
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."
We shall try to understand the significance of the name which is the basis for the new heaven and the new earth.
Mary's testimony "Holy is his name" ( Luke 2:48) came from 'the angel Gabriel was sent from God' so we are looking at the name from the standpoint of God. He named the heaven, the earth and so on. So holiness of God as testified by his Son forms on the name he acquired above every other name. His humility and the power of God raising him the dead creates a new insight into the name His humility and the power of God raising him the dead creates a new insight into the name. We have this verse, "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross./Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name." (Ph..2:8-9).
This explains the will of the Father."For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;/And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."(Co.1:19-20). As the inheritor who is worthy to give a name but Jesus Christ. So he promises the overcomer from the church in Pergamos a new name which is as personal as the man on the white horse carried. "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war./2His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself./And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."(Re.19:11-13)
Jesus Christ is the Word become flesh and he overcame the world.
I personally have seen the "wicked Bible" on display in the British museum in London with my own eyes, which had a word accidentally omitted. I think it said thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not. They caught it and destroyed all copies they could and I doubt anyone acted on this and lead them to sin. It was not an error of the KJV translators, but by the printer, I believe. But for this reason and others I agree that the Word of God is true and perfect, but humans are fallible and can mess things up. Even well meaning Jesus-followers have the same fallibility. I'm sure people making Bibles today have an occasional printing issue, as all printers have. I've heard of Bibles missing pages before.
People like Joel Osteen talk about "favor" a lot like its some kind of constant privilege, but I think that's a lie. Christians have all kinds of obstacles and challenges even when we are struggling to do good works. People in the Bible did. Even when trying to serve others, or in this case just trying to print a Bible. I think the government even hung the man for that mistake, although in my quick search I could not verify that.
When God is mentioned in the Bible, does it mostly mean the Godhead (trinity 1 John 5:7) or does it mostly mean God the Father?
"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matthew 22:32 KJV
Jesus is saying this and quoting scripture.
Is God in this verse, for example, the Godhead or the Father?
"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4;De.32:11) Moses refers to the will of God the Father. In the testimony of Jesus Christ grace and truth the two wings refer to the Son who shall judge. "and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Third and fourth generation stand in context of the generation of Jesus Christ. God assured that their iniquities shall be visited,"because ye are turned away from the Lord, therefore the Lord will not be with you."(Nu.14:43)
Now Israel is allowed to await her comeuppance.
"When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him."(Is.59:19)The beast making his appearance in Ch.13 has authority for 42 months, same as 1260 days. Time times and a half is another way of referring to Jesus Christ. When the enemy comes like a flood the Spirit shall raise an ensign. The flood in these verses refer the conspiracy theories and disinformation. " And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood./ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."(vv.15-16)
1260,42 and 'the time, times and a half' ,-The tags the Spirit uses in order to establish the truth of the fulness in Christ is a characteristic of the testimony of Jesus. "All things were created by him, and for him:/ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:16-17,19)
"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."
Man child is evidently Jesus Christ and we see the fulfillment of God's promise. "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession./Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."(Ps.2:8-9). God's Will in the Book of the Revelation shows the first rider on the white horse riding out , "And a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."(6:2). We see him here,"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."(19:11) The time lapse between the two is only God shall know. Interpreting time despite of it shows a reprobate mind. The two events however hang on the Lamb, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain," This is same vision given to Daniel who sees it in terms of the Will of the Father while what John sees it as the angel who has the testimony of Jesus Christ. This is a crucial point. The last book as 'envoi' of the entire Salvation Saga is from the Son. ("And he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John).
The woman in the wilderness consequently is Israel left out and the period mentioned is tagged by Holy Spirit. 1260 has nothing to do with papacy or any other but the fact that she is left aside. "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14). It is fulfillment of "and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4)
I see no vitriol, Just a puddle of your own making. With Joy and Peace in Him,
The Bible is the God document to which the role of man is limited to the man the Spirit has chosen to serve as amanuensis. All glory is to God and not in KJV or any translation which is like the 'golden calf' set up the manner it is handled about. This forum being specific, courtesy requires to follow KJV as far as possible, though there is no value if the user has no heart to examine beyond the surface to the intent of the Spirit. I see so many in this forum going round and round, -what else could have the five blind men of Benares do when presented with an elephant?, and it is simply a fool's business to think it will edify any.
Leaving aside let us look at the manner the Spirit has rendered the Scripture for our spiritual growth.
Command numbers serve to make the realities of heaven and of the earth distinct and easier to follow.
Here is an example: "The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven./ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." (1 Co.15:47-48) Jesus Christ as the Lord from heaven is the same. But as the Word become flesh "for the things concerning me have an end." Without which the Word cannot called perfect. He has to fulfill the scriptures. As a result in his all things consist and the three and a half year is used by the Spirit to set all events on the earth. The power given to the beast sets him as the son of Perdition as Satan is set as his adversary. 1260 days or Three and a half year is the scale to set all earth events. 42 months the beast shall lord over and shall be cut off. Elisha was jeered by 42 because Elisha is set down in the narrative as a double for Jesus.(2 Ki.2:23-25) Three sets of genealogies in Matt 1 of 14 generations each.(v.7) Earthly ministry of Jesus has another half an hour in heaven. (Re.8:1) Total 4 is the command number for the Word become flesh in heaven. It governs the four cardinal directions
Tags are used in the case of command as well as to indicate the fullness of Jesus Christ. Expressions like "unto this day" 'on that day" forever" etc., are tags. "I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever."(1 Ki.9:3)
The name of the Father is holiness of the Gospel, which is one. (One Lord , one faith-Ep.4:5).
The Son has a command number, which is Three. The Word made flesh makes his command number Four.
The Number Five is with respect the Son and all souls given "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."( John 17:2) The principle of Association is applied to man in terms of his earthly circumstances. Thus his ox is counted as five. For this reason in the Law we have God commanding Moses, "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep".(Ex.22:1)
What does the Jubilee (5x10) signify? The land belongs to God and the glory of the land is in harmony with the glory of the Son as heir to all things. With the jubilee year the land is to be left fallow. This rest signified rest that is promised to saints redeemed from earth.
1260 days of the ministry of Jesus is reckoned as baseline so both the Lord from heaven and the Son of man serves as a scale.
In the Parable of the Five Wise virgins and Five Foolish virgins where the command number is Ten, indicating the Will of God. (Matt.25:1-13)
(See entry under T-Ten commandments)
The virgins were redeemed from the world and they would have died to sin with taking baptism by water. They were to do the perfect will of God, which was their reasonable service. The Foolish five did no further in walking closer to the Lord. On the other hand the Five Wise virgins redeeming the times were evil did all to be kept from the ungodly ways. In short they followed the prompting of the indwelling Spirit.
Command numbers are tags used by the Spirit to distinguish from numbers of numerical value.
The Spirit in organizing the narrative of the Scripture uses numbers in a manner different from its normal use. Tags are different from command number.
In the vision of The Woman Clothed with the Sun , the red dragon has ten horns which is a command number to indicate judgment as in the Decalogue. The Spirit indicates that the dragon has been already under judgment. (Re.12:4). The number 10 refers as a tag as in the measurement: an omer is one tenth of an ephah (Ex.16:36). To indicate man's life multiples of 10 serve as tag. Similarly the Spirit intends a generation by 10x10 or 10x100 or 10x1000 to indicate end times. For example in the matter of gospel the command number is 12. Multiples of 12 in the upper room before the day of Pentecost held 120(1210) in number. On Mount Sion the number of first fruits are counted, 144,000. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads (Re.14:1)". Number 144,000 is a command number meaning the divine Will with regards to what constitutes first fruits (12x12x1000).
Forty days indicate time imposed on man in preparation for fulfilling divine Will. "Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant-the Ten Commandments (Ex.34:28-NIV). On the other end Jesus Christ was seen after resurrection for forty day before he ascended to the heavens.(Ac.1:3)
'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ( John 1:14). This testimony is number 4. Number 4 has significance in terms of the world that is set on four cardinal directions. (Re.7:1) Salvation is thus in terms of four gospels and the judgement aspect as in the vision of the four carpenters, - Ze.1:20.
You write "Your lack of prophetic "understanding" is showing. I shall let that pass. "Answer not a fool according to his folly, Lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own conceit." Either way it does not matter as I hope to follow the leading of the Spirit than any opinion of man.
To answer your question, most of the modern Bible editions are translations-meaning that the translators used texts that were written long before the present time. And these translations have been updated, edited and revised.
The KJV used the Received Text which included about 7 manuscripts written in the middle ages-The Latin Vulgate, the Catholic priest, Erasmus' translation of the Vulgate into a Greek translation, the Masoretic Jewish OT text from the middle ages, and the codices from the Byzantine and Syrian sources. They also used the Septuagint at times. The KJV was revised probably about a dozen times since 1611.
The Revised Version translation is a revision of the KJV where the translators went back to the same sources as the KJV. In the U.S. the American Standard Version was a re-translation of the KJV using the same sources as the KJV. These came out in the late 1800's.. Both the RV and ASV have been revised a few times since then now going by the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Version. These came out around the 1950's and 1960's.
The New International Version is a translation using texts from codices Sinaiticus and Latin that are dated far earlier than the Received Tests the KJV used. Some of these codices date back to as early as 125. A.D. up to about 500 A.D. The translators used the Septuagint and also reviewed the Received Text as well. This translation came out in the 1970's and has been revised a few times since then.
The New King James Version is a re-translation of the KJV using the same Received Texts and Masoretic Jewish OT texts as the KJV. I am not sure if this version used any of the documents that the NIV used that were newly discovered in the 1800 after the 1611 KJV was translated. The NKJV came out in the 1980's or 1990's.
The English Standard Version also is a translation using the more recently discovered and older codices that the NIV used that date back much farther than the TR and MS.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make concerning translations? Are you saying that we should only trust a bible that is a translation, and that any bible that is not a translation should not be trusted? Over the past few weeks, this topic seems to have been the most dominant topic for discussion. I only recently decided to comment on this and was hoping the discussions would move on to something more edifying. To be fair, you asked a question, so I would like to give an answer.
The answer is yes, there are other English Bibles that have been produced after the KJB that are translations of the original languages. Should they be trusted? There have also been multiple King James versions produced since the original 1611.
I think most would agree with you that the 1611 KJB is a translation as it was translated into English using the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts available at that time. If you are referring to the 1611 KJB, your statement would be factual. However, all other KJB versions produced after 1611 are not translations but updated versions to correct the errors found in previous KJB versions. Should all other KJB versions be trusted if they are not translations? I ask this because I own a few different King James Bibles. I do not own a 1611.
As you know, if you have followed any of my posts, I also, like you, read and study from the KJB even though I do not view it as being perfect. I guess I'm just trying to understand your point about the definition of the word translation when it comes to which bibles we should trust. Can you please elaborate?
Thank you!
I concur with what you are saying here. I am definitely not a King James Onlyist. I look forward to what you present in your next reply.
From what I understand: infallible not only means without error, but also unable to error. God-inspired means that God led the writers by his Spirit in their writings, but the writings were the words chosen by the writers rather than words dictated to them by the Spirit. I see it this way because of the many places where in the word that reflect a view of the world, the heavens, and space reflects the common view man had at that time in history whereas now we have learned more about these topics through scientific investigation, such as the earth going around the sun rather than the Bible writers view that the sun went around the earth; the makeup of outer space that we know now and the view of what lie beyond our "sky" of the Bible writers, for example.