Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 77

Part 7.

The concept of "rest" is important in Scripture, and it has a deep spiritual meaning for Christians. As Christians, we understand that our rest is in Christ, who is our Sabbath. When we rest spiritually in Christ, we present ourselves as the people of God before his presence in continuous sacred assembly. We are always the church, in his presence every day of the week, not just one.

In conclusion, for most Israelites, the Sabbath was a day to rest at home, not a day to travel long distances and attend a worship service. The annual harvest festivals were the time for Israelites to enjoy communal worship and fellowship. Here is what the Expositor's Bible Commentary (volume 2, page 623) says about Leviticus 23:3:

[There is an emphasis here that the Israelite rested at home. There were special offerings given in the tabernacle (e.g., a double burnt offering), but the ordinary Israelite and his whole family rested. Presumably here was an opportunity for family worship and instruction in the law of God, but this is not specifically enjoined. What a boon a weekly rest must have been to the ancient laborer and farmer in his weary round of toil! ]

As did the Jews in their synagogue system, Christians find that regular fellowship and communal instruction is an important foundation of their religious life. As Christians, we are free to meet together at any time of the day, any day of the week, and any season of the year. We are not limited to meeting on just one day, since no day has been specifically set aside by God for Christian fellowship and worship. We are always in the presence of God and worship him continually because he and Christ reside in us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. At the same time, we can gather weekly and seasonally in small groups or in larger communal situations to praise God, to recall Christ's work of salvation and to fellowship in the Spirit.

End.

God bless.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

Part 6.

LEVITICUS 23:3

Let us look at Leviticus 23:3 directly: "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord." The verse emphasizes rest.

Since the passage is about resting and not working, it seems that the expression "day of sacred assembly" is a parallel to "Sabbath to the Lord" and refers not so much to official communal worship on the Sabbath but to the day itself as being a "sacred assembly."

The phrase "day of sacred assembly" can be understood as a "sacred day of celebration" or a "sacred occasion," as well as a "sacred assembly" or convocation. The weekly Sabbath, as well as the annual festivals, were occasions to worship and praise God for the abundance of his physical blessings and for saving Israel from bondage in Egypt. But this worship and praise could be given to God in the Israelites' participation in rest itself (thus experiencing the blessings of Yahweh through rest), as well as in contemplation and conversation at home.

By resting from their labor and self-interests on the weekly Sabbath, the Israelites were presenting themselves before God through rest. Resting was a way of being in the presence of God and fulfilling his sacred purpose. The only people who were commanded to come to the Temple for worship were the Levites and priests. On behalf of the entire nation, they performed

the prescribed ceremonies. There was no command for people to watch them, or for them to teach the people. It was simply not possible for very many people to be there.

See Part 7.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

Part 5.

The synagogue system allowed Jews to meet together in local towns and villages for prayer, the reading of the Holy Scriptures and for fellowship. The synagogue became a miniature sanctuary to replace the loss of the Jerusalem Temple. We do not know when the synagogue system originated. Neither the Old or New Testaments provide any information about this development. It is generally believed that the synagogue system developed when worship at the Temple in Jerusalem became impossible and when Jews were dispersed into other nations.

Jews added the synagogue worship system, not based on biblical command, but on a sociological need, due to the loss of the Temple and the scattering of the people far away from the Promised Land. Nowhere in the Old Testament will you find a command to have local worship sites.

There wasn't anything necessarily wrong with the Jews setting up synagogues. They became an important center of fellowship and instruction in the Jewish faith. The New Testament does not condemn the practice; it is taken for granted. It is nowhere commanded.

Regarding the day on which Jews had their worship service, it's natural that it should occur on the Sabbath. The people worked the other six days and the Sabbath was a good time for them to meet. But there is no biblical command to set up local worship sites and to make the weekly Sabbath "holy convocations." The Old Testament does not indicate that the Sabbath is kept holy through a meeting. Rather, it was kept as holy through rest.

See Part 6.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

Part 4.

It would be strange, then, to have one phrase in Leviticus 23:3 refer to a weekly worship service commanded for all Israel, and then claim that this was just as important as resting as a way to keep the Sabbath. It would be a mistake to assume such a teaching from a single and vague phrase in one verse when the entire witness of the Old Testament does not mention worship service attendance in conjunction with the Sabbath.

There is no indication in Scripture of Israelites going to worship services of one kind or another in their local towns and villages. They could travel to worship services at the Tabernacle only for the annual festivals.

SYNAGOGUE SYSTEM.

One might point to the New Testament and say, "But Jesus and Paul attended the synagogue on the Sabbath. Doesn't this indicate that worship services were an essential part of God's command to keep the Sabbath holy?"

So far as we know from Scripture or Jewish history, there was no national system of Sabbath-day worship sites or places of communal instruction throughout Israel's history in the Promised Land up to the captivity of Judah in the 530s B.C. and the return of a remnant to Judea a few decades years later. There were no synagogues before the exile; there were no local meeting places in Israel before the exile, because there was no command for weekly meetings.

See Part 5.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

Part 3.

WHAT MADE SABBATH "HOLY "

The essence of Sabbath-keeping was physical rest. In Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the Sabbath command specifies rest from labor as the way to keep the day "holy." There is no mention of going to a worship service each Sabbath. Other passages in the Old Testament also define the Sabbath by rest, not by attendance at worship services. See Exodus 31:12-17, Numbers 15:32, Nehemiah 13:15-22 and Jeremiah 17:19-27. The latter two passages, though they refer to Jerusalem, do not mention anything about failure to attend worship services or "sacred assemblies," but only work on the Sabbath as a desecration of this day.

An interesting study is to look up the word "Sabbath" in a concordance, find all the Old Testament references and then read those passages to see how this day was kept "holy." The conclusion will be that rest from labor is what made the Sabbath sacred time, not attendance at a worship service. Most Israelites lived too far from the tabernacle to attend a worship service every Sabbath - and there is no evidence in the Old Testament that they did. And the law did not allow them to assemble anywhere else for worship. Nor do we find commands even for people near the Tabernacle that they had to gather for worship. The Sabbath was kept at home, by resting.

There is no mention in Old Testament passages that attending a worship service on the Sabbath is a way of keeping this day holy. The way the Sabbath was sanctified, made holy or set apart as sacred was through physical rest from labor. All the Old Testament references to Sabbath observance in Israel speak to this point. There is no Old Testament theology of weekly Sabbath holiness that centers around attendance at "holy convocations."

See Part 4.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

Part 2.

Let us look at whether Christians must attend "holy convocations" on the Sabbath. If we are to understand what Leviticus 23:3 might mean in its context, we have to know something about the manner of communal worship in Israel under the old covenant. The national corporate worship had to occur in the place that God designated as a central worship site. Originally, this was at the Tabernacle, and after Solomon's time, at the Temple in Jerusalem.

We can see an explicit instruction about the place to worship in Deuteronomy: "You are to seek the place the Lord your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go" (12:4). See also verses 11, 14, 17-18, and 26. This command to worship only at a designated location is also seen in Deuteronomy 16, which lists the annual festivals. See verses 5, 7, 11, and 16, among others.

The reasons for this were numerous. One consideration was that Israel should not alter the worship format and purpose that God had given the nation; otherwise they would easily lapse into worship that was directed to pagan deities. We can see how this happened in the wilderness when Moses left the people to receive the stone tablets ( Exodus 32), and when Israel broke politically from Judah and set up its own religious system, including new worship formats, places and times ( 1 Kings 12:25-33).

See Part 3.

Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

If performing the Sabbath rest is to be done on a Saturday, How is worshipping God on a Sunday be breaking the Sabbath?

God gave the command for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 to those "WITHIN THE GATES OF ISRAEL"

Not to the rest of the world.

In Numbers 15:32-36. there was a man stoned to death for picking up sticks!

I have never read anything like that happening or any punishment given to the rest of the world whether weekly Sabbath, yearly Sabbath or a Sabbath for the land.

THE COMMAND TO REST ON THE SABBATH WAS GIVEN TO ISRAEL AND THE WORSHIP BY ISRAEL HAD TO BE DONE IN A CERTAIN PLACE.

Here's an Interesting article by Paul Kroll.

Part 1.

Old Testament Laws:

Is Leviticus 23:3 a Command to Have Worship Services on the Weekly Sabbath?

We read the following command from Jesus in Luke 5:14, when he healed someone: "Show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them." If one assumed that Jesus' teaching applied to all people at all times, it could be claimed that this passage is "proof" telling Christians they must offer the proper Mosaic sacrifice and appear before a Jewish priest.

However, we know that Luke 5:14 is not a command for us to offer sacrifices. How do we know this? It is because the total witness of the New Testament makes it clear that such sacrifices applied only to Israelites and Jews under the Mosaic old covenant. This illustrates the folly of isolating a verse from its context. We need to examine both the verse in question and the larger context of the Bible. We must not start with advance assumptions.

See Part 2.

Hi Jema: I know I'm a bit late replying to this but I just now read the whole thread of what happened and I am so glad you and GiGi and Giannis are good to go with each other and I'm sorry my reaction was so strong and I caused trouble. I'm trying not to do that again. I am back to discussing the Sabbath with Giannis again, unless he doesn't want to then I won't. The only reason I continue to discuss the Sabbath is because (I'm not insulting Giannis, only stating my perception of these discussions and why I'm hanging on like a Pitbull LOL.) I don't feel like he has responded to my questions about why he believes that the breaking of bread can only mean the weekly service of the Early Church - that there can be no other possible interpretation. All his beliefs in the Early Church abandoning the Sabbath for Sunday worship are based on the breaking of bread premise that it had to only mean that it refers to the weekly meeting of the Early Church. Some scriptures do state that the Church met on the first day of the week, Sunday but that could just simply mean the church met on Sunday at different times other then on the Sabbath just as churches meet on different days today. For example, John 20:19 (the Church gathered together on the first day of the week because they were afraid of the Jews, not because it was time for church.) Giannis also used historical writings to back up his belief that the Early Church stopped worshipping on the Sabbath and I couldn't agree to that. (Giannis if you read this post, please don't think I am talking behind your back. I would never do that I am just trying to explain why I haven't given up on the Sabbath.) He asked me to provide scripture that validated they didn't give up on the Sabbath and I gave him a lot but he just wouldn't accept them with no real response why. All you have to do read these few and you can see that the Early church was keeping the Sabbath holy.. Acts 17:2, Acts 13:14, Acts 15:21, Acts 18:4. God Bless :)

How do you know when Paul started to preach that day? Even if it says that in other writings you can't add meaning to a scripture because someone in the first century says so. I think, Giannis, that because you have decided to believe that "breaking bread" could only be done on the first day of the week as a weekly church gathering Acts 20:7 can only be interpreted that way. If the premise I presented to you in my reply, before this one, cannot be true, tell me why without the assumption that the breaking of bread could only be done on Sunday at a regular church service. Maybe the church, in that verse, met to break bread on another day other then the Sabbath, maybe Sunday. I don't understand what you are saying about 1Cor. 11: 20-23. Paul was rebuking the church for eating their evening meal together, considering it to be the Lord's Supper, and not sharing with those who didn't have to eat. Maybe they were doing this on the Sabbath. If history tells us anything not told us in these verses we can't claim it to be a backup for the truth. History is necessary but it is still just the thoughts and words of men. When I used the quotes I did I was only telling of a man, who was quoting something from history not stating it as a biblical truth.

I apologize that I am continuing this Sabbath discussion if you'd rather go on to something else, but before we finish would you please show, with KJB scripture only, why "the breaking of bread" and the gathering of the church can only be done on Sunday or if it is done on Sunday why it can't possibly be an extra day of the week the church is getting together? Why Acts 20:7 and

1 Cor. 16:2 has to be interpreted the way you see it. God Bless :)

Hi Giannis: I'd like to discuss the Sabbath some more unless you'd rather not. Just let me know. I've done some additional research on the first century Church Fathers and I have learned more. I do agree with you that some of these authors were indeed Christians and probably did know some of the Apostles, however, what they wrote can't be presented as scripture but should only be presented as historical writings. I guess since I misunderstood that the Barnabas 15:9 was presented as a scripture, I overreacted (Who me? LOL) and let it chase me away for awhile. I apologize if I offended you or GiGi in anyway when I did that. But, while these men recorded a history of their experiences with the Early Church it can't be taken as scripturally true and can't be presented that way. The OT is our foundation and the NT builds on that foundation, to me this means that as children of God we need to accept the only true bible canonized by the Holy Spirit, as I'm sure you will agree. I know that we all love the Lord and each other and want only the truth. These discussions give us the opportunity to do that. I also apologize if my feelings toward the Catholic DOCTRINE has offended you or GiGi in any way. I was raised a Catholic and I have had a personal experience in how it destroyed a precious soul that I knew.// Why is it not possible that 1 Cor. 16:2 says they were asked to put aside a donation at the beginning of each week after the offering done on the Sabbath for something else when Paul came and he didn't want it to be done while he was there, maybe out of humility, maybe it was for him. They didn't have to gather together to do this. Also, Acts 20:7 The church met on the Sabbath for it's regular service but this time they also met on Sunday because Paul was going to be there and he would be leaving again the next day. No reason it was a weekly church service just because it says 'they broke bread together." God Bless :)

continuation

4th point:

Yes, we need to be spiritually awaked, as you said, for the bridegroom is coming and we need to go out to meet Him- Matthew 25:1-6, with lighted lamps and oil because it is midnight, that is, we are living at the turn of the sixth to the seventh and final Day - the Day of the Lord, or seventh and final millennium, the darkness of midnight is a very dangerous blackness, despite the woman being clothed with the Sun, clothed with the Greater Light- John 8:12-, having the Lesser Light under her feet- John 15:26 combined with Revelation 12:1, and crowned (by Jesus) with 12 stars(12 Apostles-, so as is written in Colossians 3:1-4 -take a look: -> 1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of GOD. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

5th point

Yes, let's get our hearts fix on the Kingdom to Come- Revelation 11:15-18, you said Christ is coming and we will all stand (or fall) before Him.

Yes, as everyone know, JESUS is the stone: Whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

6th point:

About your comment on a sad incident that caused you be desperate, I should say to you what my Lord JESUS said: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect-Mat.5:48.

GOD BLESS and get ready

Jema

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Thank you for your reply of yesterday.I highlighted six points of your post to comment them,as follow:

1st point:

What will happen from now on in the middle east and around the world as a whole, it is written and prophesied by the Word of GOD.Remember: 1The.5:2-3:->2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,as travail upon a woman with child ( Revelation 12:1-5 will LITERALLY be fulfilled);and they(Israel-the Jews) shall not escape.(EXCEPT the sealed 144k-12K of each tribe- Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5). And also the LITERAL fulfillment of 2The.2:1-13, mainly verses 11-12:-->11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION,that they should believe a lie:(These are lost).12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2nd point:

Yes,Israel will loose support, remember that GOD is in control of History,nothing random happens.In the first moment Israel have received all backing of their allies,but they will loose a lot of support,as you said.And when this becomes apparent ARE NOT the enemies of Israel that will try to take them over, as you think, no, it is not,when Israel loose the support,then will manifest their false messiah as was prophesied by my Lord JESUS( John 5:43-47),and then begins the LITERAL fullfilment of 2Thessalonians 2:8-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18, and 13:2 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2,and Daniel 2:40-45 and 12:8-12. GET READY

3rd point:

GOD will not intervene to save the physical nation of Israel, quite the opposite, GOD will work according His Word described in the 2nd point above, among many other prophecies against the rebel Israel.

Only the 144K sealed of Israel will be saved.The others are lost, for ever. Revelation 14:18-20 combined with Isaiah 5:1-7.Take a look.

continues in the next post

"City on a Hill"

The Spirit lays down in the Scriptures certain statements as undeniable as axiomatic as the holiness of God and is the glory of the Word. He is the Word. The Spirit calls these affirmations as 'pure words' because it is tried seven times. "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."(Ps.12:6) So Jesus sets it as the doctrine of God. Because these words are minted in heaven it shall be thus on earth. According to the principle of Similitude it is also a parable comparing the foundation of Zion is already laid in heaven to which kingdom building of God shall be according to the body God has already prepared. (Ps.40:8;12:6)

"Ye are the light of the world" Matt.5:14. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Here Jesus was presenting the Gospel of God and he was there to prove by example. This kingdom building therefore puts both heaven and earth as one and there are no works other than faith. It is his abiding life.

New birth that was enjoined upon man and how he ran the gauntlet of the disbelieving world in the world of the flesh has its own parallel as saints redeemed from the earth are rendering the House of Wisdom with seven pillars as glorious as the city on a hill. This city is called New Jerusalem. "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,/ Having the glory of God.(Re.21:10-11).

The angel led him to a great and high mountain and it represents what Daniel referred in interpreting the king's dream.( Dan 2:44-45). The city on this hill is the stone cut of it but not with hands. Glory of God as the Father of lights is a mountain against which the body of Christ is the city and it cannot be hid.

Caul and Kidneys

The Law is our school master so the law be it the Law of Moses must be proved. Thus one lives by the word having declared it unto salvation. Ro.10:6) When God has placed the word in your heart Moses would warn the nation " I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."(De.30:19).

Thus every believer lives withing two worlds simultaneously: word of the Spirit (heaven) and world of the flesh (earth) The earth is my footstool. So we in the holiest of holies the mercy seat with two witnesses. Correspondingly our bodies carry two witnesses and caul and kidneys are a sign. So God touches the young Jeremiah to indicate their presence. Prophet Ezekiel similarly eats the scroll and what do they signify? Our bodies serve as a living temple.

Reasonable service of every Christian is to present his body a living sacrifice so the flesh and its concomitant lusts no longer stand in the way. 'Sin lies at the door' God counseled Cain. Caul and kidneys (two witnesses of the world of flesh) are to be burnt for a sin offering "But the fat, and the kidneys, and the caul above the liver of the sin offering, he burnt upon the altar; as the Lord commanded Moses.(Le.9:10)

"Circumcision"

Circumcision, or concision was a sign on the flesh given by God to Abraham (Ge.17:10-11) and its authority was backed by law written on the tables of stone. This is called the Law of Moses. This was a list drawn from the Law (Ps.119:89) and for Israel and was meant to make the nation tough under the bootcamp of the wilderness. Forty years (4x10) required thorough grounding in the word of God.

Circumcision consequently was intended as a temporary provision that marked by two cherubs with outstretched wings above the mercy seat. These were two witnesses from heaven, testifying of the coming of the Word that was become flesh. Presence of God and cherubim establishes the rite of circumcision was only valid in the world of the flesh. It would be removed when law was written on fleshy hearts signalling a new covenant of the blood was enforced.(' But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away'-1 Co.13:10). The reality is however found in Christ (Col.2:17)

Israel circumcised outward badge of becoming people of the law. However two witnesses in their flesh represented by caul and kidneys proved their righteousness was only imputed to them.("Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin "-Ro.3:20) (See entry:caul and kidneys)

May we honor our LORD and SAVIOR by understanding our relationship with HIM. If you are saved, then search the scriptures to find out what it means to be saved. Continue to read and study to know what the mind of CHRIST is with regards to our Christian world view pertaining to different issues confronting and plaguing our society.

Memorize HIS word and walk in HIS Spirit that we not fall to the lust of the flesh.

GOD to shine HIS face on the brethren and gloriously bless us as we worship and praise HIS name.

May we be strong and faithful to be praying for the peace in Jerusalem; and for those in leadership positions.

January 8, 2024

Thank you for your comments.

I don't discuss in this forum anymore with anyone except two of my friends.

Church

The Spirit of God translates Fellowship of God with Man in a language man may easily follow. 'Let us create man in our image and after our likeness' which in fulfillment is set down in the narrative as 'male and female created he them." (Ge.1:26-27) Adam thus represents both aspects. This representational reality of the everlasting covenant owes to the eternal word ,-the Law, so we define the church has a body closed up as God did with the rib taken from Adam. "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh." Creation of Adam is after the similitude for man to understand the fellowship of God with Man. "And they shall be one flesh" is what we signify by marriage and is sanctified according to the principle of Similitude.(See entry under Rule of Three)

The Church has a body to which every believer, 'brethren' so collectively called and Christ is the head. Christ has of God become wisdom to us. (1 Co.1:30) The Spirit renders the fellowship of God and Man as that of Wisdom with Power of God. Before the worlds began Wisdom has built the House with seven pillars (Pr.9:1) so the symbolism of the House of God cannot be lost to anyone. "For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God (He.3:4). "know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?(1 Co.6:19)" What is pertinent here is the name. It has a spiritual meaning.

We have two verses with regards to His name.. "Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh (Je.7:14)". Against this let us consider what God promised King Solomon when he visited second time. (1 Ki.9:2-5) In the lexicon of the Spirit the tag 'forever' refers to the Son. The Church is short has a name Zion, as foretold by Prophet Isaiah.(Is.28:16)

Momsage,

Your post reminds me of the same zeal that Judaizers showed in the Church of Galatea w.r.t circumscision. What has the 4th commandment to do with us when the Lord of Sabbath has opened a new and living way? What God gave Moses on stone tables served the time and a context. Moses was a servant and we are called to be coo-heirs with Christ who is the fulfillment of the Law. Decalogue was a digest of the Law which is the Word forever settled in heaven. Seeing that Israel failed to fulfill these shows how superficial it was worn as meaningless as their frontlets and phylacteries. We are called to bear the word on our fleshy tables. We have in the Son the fountain of life. In his light we see the light. So walking therein is entering in God's rest. Sabbath for us everyday service. Not I but Christ who lives in me. When Christ who is our life appear we shall also appear with him in glory. That is our hope.

Christianlady7 Please follow these links and you will find my postings for you. On the website choose discussions, more, discussion by topic and view all. They will be there in order. I look forward to your reply. God Bless :)

Christianlady7

SABBATH

Genesis: 2:2-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.

"seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number

"rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest

"sanctified, holy qadashconsecrate

"sabbath" sabath intermission

These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on that day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandment. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always.

Christianlady7

I do want to say that to have church and fellowship on the first day of the week is not, in any way, wrong because the commandment, again, says only to rest. It just seems to me that fellowshipping and worshiping God with the preaching of His word on our day of rest makes sense. To disregard this sure and steadfast commandment that God intended for our good pleasure is so sad. All of the other commandments are to be obeyed so we will live the holy life God intends for us to live to gain Heaven, but the 4th commandment is for our physical, emotional and spiritual good. It is a gift we try to give back to God and say "no thanks," however, it is also a commandment and God said if we love Him we will obey His commandments because they do not cause us to be burdened. 1 John: 5:3 and Luke 6: 13-14

Christianlady7

Some have said, since Jesus is our rest we don't need the 4th commandment and yet, do we "rest" in Jesus at all? Those who believe we not longer need to honor this commandment say the Early Church stopped worshiping on the Sabbath and changed to the first day of the week after the death and resurrection of Christ. These are the two scriptures they usually refer to as showing this.

1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this just because he asked them to on the first day of the week)

Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Modern day churches don't always have fellowship and worship on Sunday. They do it on any day if it's something they want to do, a service besides their normal church on Sunday. So on this Sunday the church just got together to listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. Nothing is said that this is a regular church service for them.)

There are historical quotes that indicate that the Early Church continued to honor the Sabbath until about 100AD when ravening wolves entered in and things kind of got into a mess so Emperor Constantine, at the Laodician Council in 345AD, made it a law that the day of worship was Sunday the first day of the week. By then the wolves were in charge of the church, it was no longer God's, and pretty much went along with it and that's why people do it today. (Except me.:) Here are some of the quotes:

Christianlady7

"Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212

"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo

"The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893

I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment but does that excuse us from disobeying it? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. As you said when we ignore or replace the things of God they diminish as the Sabbath has.

I'll have to do these postings under new comments but I will address it to you. So please go there.

Thanks Chris,

It is always good to hear from you.

I've been reading this afternoon on this topic of non-canonical books. But it is certainly not necesary to do so.

As you said, it is good to find out how the church in the earliest times understood doctrines and practices passed down to the leaders from the apostles.

"Not wanting to get into the topic of whether or not believers are sinners, since I have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. In this way, I did speak that I was a sinner because of what Jema had said about the speech towards you during this thread with you. I was concerned that maybe I had sinned against you in the way she mentioned and repent, apologizing to you and to the members on this site. So, if she can show me any words that Giannis or I used that fit the definition of invective, aggressive, or bullying, I would want to know." Honestly, GiGi, I really don't know what you are referring to. I know that you and Giannis have always been very gracious and respectful in you discussions. I don't really remember responding to a post by Jema, which doesn't mean I didn't, but please don't be concerned. As I said, you and Giannis are truly loving members of this forum. As to the topic of sinning/Christians the only thing I will say is that I believe people who believe in this doctrine do not know the difference between their weakness and faults and real sin. God Bless :)

GiGi

Greetings in Christ JESUS

You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)

Galatians 3:8-10

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.

Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Hebrews 4:

12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.

Thank you GiGi for explaining that misunderstanding so clearly. I was desiring to address it, but for certain reasons I know I shouldn't, or cannot, do so.

I sense that there is a reason for holding to a belief, that these letters by certain eminent men should be treated as spurious. When we have the Deuterocanonical (or, Apocrypha) books that are largely accepted by certain churches (including the RCC), we can easily include the writings of Clement, Polycarp, Eusebius, et al as also falling into that category. And many of these men, especially Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John, were very much involved in the work & growth of the early Church, so their writings have always been a great help to us many centuries later to understand how the Church believed & functioned. Once we can separate these writings (not all the contents of which we might agree with), from the questionable Apocrypha (written many centuries later before & after Christ), we can begin to get to the source of matters such as Sabbath-keeping, etc. But it comes down to the thorny point: what do I want to believe or will support my belief, rather than let the Word speak - and this is something that I constantly assess within myself, lest I too fall into that trap. Hope your discussions with Momsage continue to be engaging & enlightening.