Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 850

A Christian does not get saved by keeping the law and after a Christian is saved he should strive to do God's will by relying on the Holy Spirit of God to give wisdom and direction, not on some set of supposed NT rules some might think still hold Christians in bondage to fulfill.

Galatians 3

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

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10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

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19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

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24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Thank you for your reply to me . I only have one or two more things to say about this and then I would b very happy to drop the whole thing . Firstly , I know from reading this site for at least two years now , that I don't believe the same things as everyone on here and they don't believe the same things as I do . If I were to list my beliefs on here I'm sure that u and some others would find my beliefs heretical in your opinion . This doesn't bother me one bit . Secondly , it's worth pondering that whatever we say to others reveals a lot about ourselves . I will b honest with u and say that whenever u give your rebuttals to Alex , your actual message to him is lost on me and all that comes into my mind is sadness for Alex , as I feel as if u r victimising him again , and sadness for u because of the way u speak to him and what it reveals to me about u . I'm ashamed of myself for not coming on here and saying these things to u a long time ago . There r many regulars on here who have chosen to sit back and say nothing to u while they must have known that your attitude toward Alex was distressing him . I'm ashamed of them also . I'm guessing this comment of mine will b removed pretty quickly . No one likes to hear the truth .

The Bible is truly a controversial piece of literature! It is one of the oldest manuscripts known to man. And what makes it so controversial ---is the fact that it claims to be the word of God. And the fact, that it was dictated to holy prophets, by the spirit of God. Also, a lot of the Bible is written from eyewitness accounts. A long with being a spiritually influenced piece of literature.

And it takes spiritually influenced people to comprehend what it is saying. And people who have not received Jesus as their Lord and savior, and filled with the Holy Spirit, cannot comprehend the Bible, because it is spiritually discerned, so it is foolishness to them.

The Bible says in first Corinthians chapter 2 verse 14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness onto him neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

I have heard people say "I've read the Bible" --- wonderful, but there is a big difference between reading and studying!

What must a man do to please God and be saved? Here is what Jesus said.

Matthew 19

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

18 "Which ones?" he inquired.

Jesus replied, "'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,'[c] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"

20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

We should note a few things about this narrative.



1. Jesus mentioned commandments but said nothing about keeping the Sabbath.

2. Keeping the commandments did not make anyone perfect in God's eyes.

3. Selling your possessions, giving everything away to the poor, and following Jesus full time in poverty was superior to keeping the ten commandments in bringing a sinner closer to God.

However, assuming keeping the Sabbath or selling into poverty are the keys to entering into God's approval is bad Bible exegesis.

What is the penalty for not following the law as Christians? Death? Which laws should be faithfully observed and which laws are no longer to be observed by Christians? Where in the epistles are we told to remember to keep the Sabbath holy? What about laws demanding infidels be stoned?

I do not believe Jesus was encouraging Christians to adhere to the letter of the law like a bunch of modern Jewish legalists. Keeping Jesus' commandments are fulfilling His will for us each day and we must get His leading and filling of His Spirit to know what that will is.

Welcome back GiGi. And thank you for a pertinent well-balanced response that should settle in our minds your heart towards all here & that you do not hold any evil intent by what you write. As much as it's difficult to be restrained when error is being published, I think the secret is to make it known once & leave it be, if for nothing else but to keep the comments on this Site focussed on the Word of God & not tending towards any personality.

The best way if error is noted, & I have been taken to task as well by some, is to simply offer comment or answer a question on what you believe is from God's Word. In that way, others reading the thread can then consider, from the Scriptures & Spirit's help, as to which comments, if any, are worthy. I do know where you're coming from, as I get fired up also, but with the medium we have here to convey our thoughts, the barriers are far greater than when in a face-to-face meeting. Anyway, keep up the good work - your posts are always informative & enriching.

Dear "Marke", in a way you are right too. Jews still keep the Sabbath, and Christians do not keep the Sabbath at all. The meaning of the Sabbath was to Honor God not man. Therefore, the Jews could not then do/work on that day of the Sabbath. This was then, as everyone knows, a great topic of conversation for the scribes. (You should see for yourself here on the web as well). So that we do not walk in unbelief where others are enlightened.

Luke 6:7

And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

They followed everything Jesus did to get something and accuse Him. No further explanation is needed, because we know that.

Jesus has now created a society that we can have with Him 24/7 that is, around the clock. The kingdom of the Holy Spirit understands everything we think/believe/confess and He does not beat us down if we do not get to go to Sunday meeting. For that is what we Christians do at meetings on Sunday.

But what was done if the Jews did not follow the laws of the Sabbath?

For to live up to what Jesus died for us, May we have fellowship in the Spirit as here in one example Fhilippians 2:1-4

The law that has now been replaced by stone tablets is now directed into our hearts. So really, we only need One to teach us.

He Is A Full Good Teacher. The Holy Spirit.

Romans 5:5

Ezekiel 36:26

This was done so that we would be justified, but then another study begins. Then I'm pretty sure the elders in here have something good to say. Be blessed in Jesus name, love u in Christ

I think if you trace out commentaries on Judas in the Gospels and Acts you get the answers to both of your questions.

The set of scriptures that speak about Judas before he committed himself to betray Jesus are: Mark 3:13-19, Luke 6:13-16, John 6:61-71

The event that triggered Judas to act on his decision to betray Jesus: Matthew 26:6-16, Mark 14:3-11, John 12:3-8

Judas identified as betrayer at the last supper: Matthew 26:20-25, Mark 14:17-21, Luke 22:21-22, John 13:18-31

Once his betrayal was set in motion: John 17:9-12

At the betrayal: Matthew 26:45-50, Mark 14:40-46, Luke 22:45-48, John 18:1-9

After completing his betrayal: Matthew 27:3-10, Acts 1:16 and Acts 1:20

We must acknowledge Jn 2:24-25 was true of Christ before He chose any of His disciples. He was never deceived by anyone that temporarily followed him but fell away, including Judas, John 6:64. No prophet had been in Israel for centuries, so Christ alone had this ability when He came until Pentacost. After Pentacost the hearts of certain individuals could be revealed by Christ's Spirit to born again believers that are specially given that gift, such as Peter ( Acts 5:1-13, Acts 8:1-25) Note, Jusas, Ananias and Saphira, and Simon all had their hearts exposed as false thru their follies with money.

Judas was a disciple and he was broken off the vine, but he never had the fruit of the Holy Spirit and was never pronounced pruned/cleaned by the Father or Jesus. We know this because Judas was broken off by the Father before Jesus told the disciples they were pruned/cleaned branches abiding in Him, the true vine, who would bear fruit in John 15. Judas was marked unclean, he was never born again of the Spirit at Pentacost or made an Apostle for the great commission. He died a disciple without the fruitful presence of the Holy Spirit. He is proof that false fruitless brethren can be among us who depart 1 Jn 2:18-20, but not proof some are broken off by God who actually bear fruit by abiding in Jesus.

Hello, Just before Stephen went to sleep as he was stoned to death he prayed that this sin would not be laid to the accounts of those who were at hand. Did not this prayer keep the way open for Saul to meet Jesus?

Mark,

I agree. The key is that these are "religious individuals," not saved believers because like you say, a saved believer is someone who Jesus knows. Jesus knows all those who belong to Him (Saved individuals). And you are correct in that He will never say to us "Depart from me, I never knew you."

People today still take those verses in Hebrews, mainly Hebrews 6:4-6, and Hebrews 10:26 to show that salvation can be lost. But that cannot be because Jesus cannot say He knows us now and then later on say depart, I never knew you. Those verses in Hebrews are talking about religious Jews who were turning back to Judaism because of what it would cost them to surrender their life to Christ as their Messiah, not saved people losing their salvation.

You make a great point. Thanks for sharing!

Donald,

Paul was born Saul of Tarsus. But his name was also Paul. There was no name change. He was born a Jew and his Jewish name was Saul. He was an apostle to the Gentiles, so he chose to use his Roman name Paul, or Paulos in Greek. Saul was his Hebrew name and Paul, or Paulos was his Greek name. He kept both names.

Dear Grae,

Thank you for your reply. I agree that we should not 'pick on" anyone on this forum. But there is a difference between attacking someone personally and refuting someone's viewpoint posted here. I have done the latter concerning Alex. As believers, for the sake of others, we should do this when a viewpoint is dangerously contrary to what the Bible tells us about God, His nature, Jesus, His nature, and humans and their natures. I think that the viewpoint presented by Alex is seriously out of the bounds of Scripture. And so, I speak up. I think we should do this, as Paul, John, and Jude spoke up against heresy within the church.

Not everyone cares to do that, or likes it when it occurs. It is fine if you can ignore posts you disagree with and not read posts from people you do not feel an affinity with. We have this freedom.

As to not researching religious subjects, many on this forum do not wish to do that. I am one who will research because there are many sites that give biblical insights that are helpful. If one wishes to only seek understanding in the Bible from only themselves, then that is fine, but such a person has to really speak truthfully when they say this, that is not seeking input from ANYONE else but self alone. If one who says that they only learn straight from the Bible and then in reality discusses Biblical topics and interpretations with other believers in person, from books, on the T.V., You Tube, or internet, in a bible study group, from a pastor, or any other source is being untruthful.

Grae, I don't know personally what you do concerning this. So, I am not implicating you in this. And I certainly wish you and Alex no harm nor ill-will.

As for me, and many others, I believe that it was intended by the apostles (and Christ) that it is intended that Christian growth is to happen within the community of believers and not to the exclusion of input from other believers. That is why I research, do learn from others in the ways I listed

Marke,

You misinterpret scripture from Paul's epistles, ignore the entire gospel of Jesus Christ, and his apostles, including tons of scripture in the OT and NT to arrive at your misguided concept that a Christian can disregard God's Commandments.

I guess you don't believe this scripture either. This is Jesus telling us that we will have right to the tree of life, and may enter into the gates of the city (Heaven) if we follow His Commandments.

Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

My friend, if we are truly "Born Again", we will be led by the Spirit to follow God's Commandment's. Why? Because His Commandments are Good and Just!

Read and Believe!

Alex,

I still am not even closely in agreement with your narrative. It is very faulty and so in many ways. To say we become gods is not biblical and it is actually blasphemous to say that our great ineffable God creates other gods when throughout Scripture He says He alone is God and there is not other god or gods besides Himself. He is eternal, having no beginning. We began. He is all-powerful, all-knowing, everywhere present. We are not and never cannot acquire these essential characteristics of deity because these cannot be transmitted, replicated, multiplied or communicated to anyone else. These are part of what is called God's ontological essence (that which is what a being is). Any being without this essence can never acquire it to become a god.

God the Son in Jesus never had a beginning. His divinity was not made by the Father and begin to exist when He took on flesh. The human aspect of Jesus had a beginning at conception. But the divine aspect of Jesus eternally existed. He is unique in that He is the only Person to be both God and man in these two natures unified in one Person. No other being is like Him.

If you say that Jesus or the Holy Spirit is born in us by God's seed, then again, your statement denies the eternality of all three Person's of the Trinity. If you say that this seed from God makes us gods, then you are professing that there are gods that are created and therefore there are gods besides the Triune God. This is false because God is not a created Being and any created being cannot be God. This is true because God's eternal, uncreated, self-existence is the hallmark of deity, and only One God has this hallmark, the Triune God. Us and angelic beings all had a beginning and thus do not possess this defining essence that exists only and always in the Triune God.

Alex, Your theology is very off base, full of errors, and diverse from what Scripture teaches. It contradicts what God Himself has said over and over again.

Hello,

In fairness the 4 verses I shared were from the New Testament relating to the Sabbath. But I'm not aware of any verse in the New Testament saying to stop remembering the Sabbath, nor any saying its ok to kill or dishonor your father or mother or to commit adultery which are also from the ten commandments. It seems inconstent to only apply the under-the-law verses to some commandments but not for others. James 2 clarifies some of this topic as does this from Matthew 5:19

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Verse 17 Jesus reiterates that He's not destroying the law. Some then assume he's destroyed and ended the law. If anything, Jesus makes it more restrictive, because He goes into a format of "you have heard this, but I say..." and He makes it more restrictive. Example: don't even look at a woman,

Matthew 21:18-30

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

When is the law ended: Until heaven and earth pass? It appears that hasn't happened yet.

And following the law was so important Jesus Himself said do absolutely everything you can to avoid it at all costs even plucking out your own eye! Because in verse 29: "for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

God bless.

please read the question again

when was saul name change to paul

Christians can make good policemen because they understand that justice must sometimes be upheld with deadly force but they do not take pleasure in using deadly force. I speak generally because I know not all Christians understand this.

There is no mention of keeping the Sabbath in the NT epistles. On the other hand, there are several passages reminding Christians that God does not intend them to focus on the law in their walk with Him but to focus on Him, and there is a difference.

Galatians 5:18

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Colossians 2:14

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Christians are not under the law. None of the NT epistles suggest Christians should be observing the Sabbath on Saturday or on any other day. NT references to the Sabbath were all confined to the period before God turned away from the Jews, setting them aside until the time the Church age ends and God turns again to the Jews.

Referring to both books of Samuel and to the reports of a whole series of massacres inflicted upon various and many other tribes by Israel who were progressively invading the "Promised Land" with the assistance of GOD - indeed could not possibly have achieved their objective, also GODs objective in keeping his covenant with Israel.

How does this fit with the Ten Commandment that GOD gave to Moses?

Psalm 139

19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Christians are not to love the world neither the things in the world and are to have disgust for those who openly defy and blaspheme God with venom.

Job 32:6

And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.

Job 32:10

Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

Job 32:17

I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

There are three times in the KJV that the English word "opinion" is used, all in Job 32. The book of Job is a book of arguments. The word "arguments" is found only one time in the Bible, also in Job.

Job 23:4

I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

The English word "arguing" is also found only one time in the Bible, in Job.

Job 6:25

How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

Job and his three friends all expressed their opinions and argued in support of their opinions but God rebuked all four of them in the end for the errors in their thinking. Elihu was not rebuked and he was the only one of the lot who did not come across as one who is right and everyone else was wrong. He gave his opinions (which were right), called them his opinions, and offered for any of the others to prove him wrong after he spoke.

Elihu was right and should be a lesson to us about arguing our opinions in front of others. Give our views as our views and genuinely and politely allow others to express opposition with their arguments.

HOW DO WE CALCULATE Jesus time of his ministry ? and how could his brothers not have seen his life events , there is nothing written about Jesus from the time he was 12 years od , until he was baptized by John the Baptist . or have I missed something ?

Marke,

The only thing I agree with you is; "Christians should honor God everyday"

In order to honor God everyday - we should be humble, and obedient, and trying our best to keep God's Commandments, and not try to reason ways to circumvent them, and try to convince others to do the same.

Matthew 5:19

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus tells us "everything" in this powerful scripture: John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Read and Believe!

To God Be All The Glory. I am grateful for each morning I have been awaken

by the Holy Spirit.

Job 32:6

And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.

Job 32:10

Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

Job 32:17

I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

There are three times in the KJV that the English word "opinion" is used, all in Job 32. The book of Job is a book of arguments. The word "arguments" is found only one time in the Bible, also in Job.

Job 23:4

I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

The English word "arguing" is also found only one time in the Bible, in Job.

Job 6:25

How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

Job and his three friends all expressed their opinions and argued in support of their opinions but God rebuked all four of them in the end for the errors in their thinking. Elihu was not rebuked and he was the only one of the lot who did not come across as one who is right and everyone else was wrong. He gave his opinions (which were right), called them his opinions, and offered for any of the others to prove him wrong after he spoke.

Elihu was right and should be a lesson to us about arguing our opinions in front of others. Give our views as our views and genuinely and politely allow others to express opposition with their arguments.

Thank you for that lovely post .

Thank you Alex , some of my most favourite verses in Revelation : Ch 2 V 17 , Ch 3 V 12 , Ch 11 V 15 and Ch 22 V 1-7 . These verses really help me to focus on the awesome future and take my mind off the awful present .

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 1 Corinthians 10:4

[ Luke 9: the account of Jesus's Transfiguration]

28-29 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, Jesus took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

And as Jesus prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

Verses 33-35

And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three (CHURCHES) tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: NOT knowing what he said.

While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: HEAR HIM!!

Here is my reply on Sabbath arguments: God doesn't care about our rituals, buildings or projects, which day of the week, etc.

It causes strife, arguing, anger and Chaos. WHO is the god of Chaos? Satan laughs at us!

When the doors are open for services and communion, attend. It's that simple. What God said, is the bottom line. It was Jesus's custom to attend church when he was in town. He is the Church. If his life is inside of us, we are a member of that Church.

I have church in my home often. I turn off tv, internet, the phone-put on simple praise music

And enter into worship. It's Jesus's Church. We are IN CHRIST. This is what God meant. Hear Jesus.

We are mobile Churches. We are his hands, his feet, we carry his Word within us. Go Ye into the community.

We know "who" is the originator of anger, disgust, rebellion. His TIME is short. He's advancing on Jesus's Church. Resist it in Jesus Name. Let Jesus love flow out instead. It's a daily choice.

I love you