Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 889

"Baptism by fire is a reference to the day of the Lord, where the recipients of the 'abomination of desolation' are burned up by the flame. It is Jesus who comes like a thief in the night to lay the land desolate 1 Thessalonians 5:2, Revelation 16:15

Anthony.

Part 2.

The rest I mentioned in part 1 " Colossians 2." you see Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

TRUSTING IN CHRIST IS THAT REST.

In Hebrews it gives a distinction between the Jews entering Gods rest and those who trust in Christ. "The Church".

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

""For unto "US" was the gospel preached, as well as unto "THEM": but the word preached did not profit "THEM", not being mixed with faith in "THEM" that heard it.""

For "WE" which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and "THEY TO WHOM IT WAS FIRST PREACHED" entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given "THEM" rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 4:1-10.

Israel will enter into that rest as a nation during the Millennium.

God bless.

Hello again, S. Spencer

I agree, that we do not necessarily become Israelites or Jews by the ingrafting done by God. The account of the ingrafting in Romans 11:16-24 speaks pointedly to the root and the first-fruit being holy. This is definitely speaking of Jesus Christ.

This is really a beautiful picture of Christ being the source of the people of Israel (the root). It tells us that Jesus pre-existed the people of Israel, the partiarchs Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. And on backwards through history, tracing Abraham's lineage all the way back to Adam. Jesus was before all things, and He is the holy first-fruit of the Olive Tree people produced from Himself.

The 1st verse says it all. When Babylon takes rest from treachery and spoiling, they will be treacherously spoiled by the beast.

Free,

That was a nice compliment about the truth.

I hope you overcome the obstacles in your path.

I'll say prayers for Free to be freer. Get some angels to you.

Dear S.Spencer,

Thank you for this in-depth study. I appreciate it.

My only comment is to your last statement on this post.

I do not think that anyone on here is really stating that they are trusting in one's ability in keeping the law. I think that this is a misrepresentation of what some are saying on here. Most on here agree that we are made righteous by faith in Jesus; that His work of salvation, perfect life, and perfect sacrifice is all we need to trust in for our right standing with God.

Most on here believe that it is through God's grace that we come to salvation; it is a gift from God and not earned. Most on here believe that being under grace frees us from the curse of the law and the need to try to attain righteousness by keeping the law. Most on here believe also that Paul repeatedly teaches believers to live godly lives and speaks against engaging in sins such as enumerated in Galatians 5:19-21; Colossians 3:9; Ephesians 4:17-32; 5:1-12; 1 Corinthians 6:8-10; 10:6-11; Romans 6:11-14; 13:8-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22; Hebrews 13:4-5; because we are to walk in the Spirit and produce the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus also speaks to this in Rev. 22:14-15.

Therefore. I think it is improper for one to say things that will discourage believers from practicing godliness in their daily lives. Paul taught clearly that believers are to avoid that which is sinful. So, as a believer, I do not wish to covet, lie, steal, be sexually immoral, kill another, dishonor my parents, disregard sabbath resting, use the Lord's name improperly, set up any idol, or worship an idol, along with may other sinful actions Paul spoke against in his epistles, and in the words of Jesus, Himself.

One who is loving God and loving others will not make a habit of doing these sinful things, but only what good that is of the Spirit's grace and power in a believer's life. We are not talking about law keeping as it was required in the OT, living in obedience to God instead of in sinfulness.

It looks to me like Our Country is voting to defund the Police (less officers to call in emergencies).

We need to call our elected officials and demand More police protection.

If we just vote for a party because we always have, they may not be doing what they say they'll do. Empty Promises. It's not illegal to switch party affiliation if they aren't doing what they promised. Forms at the Post Office. Let's quit screaming in the streets and hit back in the elections. Make it count. They work for us.

Isaiah 5 says: Evil men prosper, when Good men (and women), DO NOTHING.

God works through us too. If we know to do right and we don't do anything; we get our reward. Nowadays politicians promise lots and lots, but nothing gets done. Yet they spend our poor tax dollars like we're all rich.

Our immigration system is fatally broken. It used to be a legal way to renounce past countries and declare allegiance to the USA only. We have to pay tax dollars for that too.

Go back to the source. You're not only voting for yourself (or not voting). Those are our Tax Dollars.

HIRE someone with a good record, and not a lot of empty promises__that depend on blind faith and deep pockets.

The Bible says to obey the Government, and those who have RULE over you. That's speaking on the Churches we attend. Who have to give an account to GOD. If they're silent, we are. Or are we?

My conscience says to vote; no matter what the weather is doing. Trust God and commit your doings to Him.

We vote for the kids futures. They removed American History, Civics, and other Good, Godly subjects from our schools so we wouldn't know our roots and freedoms. Who did that? Teach your children at home what being American means.

Mishael

Incredibly; this chapter presents Isaac committing the same mistake with his wife that Abraham did TWICE before; AND once AGAIN Abimelech got into the crossfire! This was after blessings were promised in verse 4-same scenario there as well. This time Abimelech said that anyone touching Isaac OR his wife would be put to death. (verse 11). We see once again in this passage the strife caused by material blessing; as well as contention with the Philistines beginning. Isaac after this event also made a covenant (dejavu!) with Abimelech and a couple of his cohorts. God's blessing was something which caused a respect for power; but making vows foolishly; as many other scriptures indicate leave a binding agreement with the Lord and without careful thought can cause trouble. This is why whenever we invoke His name we shouldn't make hasty vows or swear by anything as Jesus said let your yeah be yeah your nay be nay. The exception is when we fulfill something God institutes such as marriage or when in O.T. times God Himself would make a covenant (or promise such as when He passed between the animals cut in two). Clearly; man being a fallen being is apt to lie in order to achieve His goals. We can attempt to keep God out of an agreement; but the enemies of the Lord like to use others to gain advantage invoking God (hence; the agreement with "death and hell" with Antichrist will be a covenant NOT desireable and the Beast himself will violate it.

The end of the passage shows how pagan marriages began to be a plague for the children of God's people. Esau in the N.T. was said to also be a fornicator; showing further reason that God hated him.

Hi Anthony.

Part 1 of 2.

The way you asked the question, "Does the ten commandments apply to all including gentiles?" I would say, yes.

The next question would be, did the 10 commandments slay us all as Paul mentioned in Romans 7:8-9. I would say yes. Because no one has been able to keep the law. Even the greatest 2 Commandments is out our reach without being born again.

Mark 12:29-31. This is a love we can't produce without the Holyspirit being present. It's a fruit of the spirit, and all the law hangs on it.

Galatians 5:14. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:10. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

This is what baptism mentioned in Romans 6 is all about. "Not the outward profession we do in water but the inward identification of the Spirit." which has much to say about the sabbath.

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 2:11-17.

see Part 2.

Malachi 4:5

I will make a bet with the advanced Bible readers that they will not know Elijah when he comes, before the day of the Lord. Why, because they hadn't noticed anything thus far.

When Elijah comes preaching, you won't give it a thought. You might even think satan sent him.

Matthew 16:2-4

Part 3.

Romans 2:24-29.

Verse 25. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Do you see the Dilemma if you take the verse the way you understood it? If we are Jews the way you described it and can't keep the law then our circumcision becomes uncircumcision if we deny the grace of God and put our trust in the flesh! We also would be broken off!

You are attempting to graft into the broken branch rather the olive tree!

Verse 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This comes at the new birth of the believer and ministered by the Spirit, Not the letter. Its obeying the commandment written on our heart not the letter written on stone. And this comes after Salvation Not to obtain Salvation.

Galatians 5:1-6.

There is the groups mentioned in scripture and they're all distinct. Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God.

1 Corinthians 10:32. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

God bless."

What does the Bible teach about hypocrisy in church and everyone is aware of the wrong doing yet they are allowed to be members in good standing. No repentance no remorse. Is that biblically acceptable.

Thank you again, Chris,

Good Afternoon, S.Spencer

I read this post and I don't know why you mentioned me in it. Can you explain? I want to understand better. Thanks

Hi Chris, thanks for the info. I am one who does not know of Ellen G. White. But I looked her up and now I know she is co-founder of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. So, there are most likely many others on this site who did not know either.

I luv the bible

Brother Dan.

Part 3.

Romans 2:24-29.

Verse 25. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Do you see the Dilemma if you take the verse the way you understood it? If we are Jews the way you described it and can't keep the law then our circumcision becomes uncircumcision if we deny the grace of God and put our trust in the flesh! We also would be broken off!

You are attempting to graft into the broken branch rather the olive tree!

Verse 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This comes at the new birth of the believer and ministered by the Spirit, Not the letter. Its obeying the commandment written on our heart not the letter written on stone. And this comes after Salvation Not to obtain Salvation.

Galatians 5:1-6.

There is the groups mentioned in scripture and they're all distinct. Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God.

1 Corinthians 10:32. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

God bless.

Ronald,

It's the last week of the 70th week.

Jesus had 3.5 year ministry on earth, then

Gog gets 3.5 years end-time power as anti-christ.

There is no 3.5 years of peace, that's not possible. You've been getting that all along with the worldwide fanfare Putin receives. He saved civilization by defeating US backed ISIS in Syria in 2015. No one can touch Putin, he knows everything he needs to know, and never falters. He's peaceful by saving his strength for when he needs it. Gog surprises everyone at the falling away reveal 2 Thessalonians 2:3; that describes anti-christ sending nuclear missiles, while his counterpart, the US president, is left speechless Jeremiah 50:43

The 5th trumpet army, Revelation 9:1-11: for 21 years, Mystery Babylon US invaded Iraq, destroyed Syria, Libya and killed millions of Muslims, (not Christians), because Muslims don't have the seal of God in their foreheads. It is allegory for what happened during the ended war on terror. In a prophetic time line, we are right here ( Ezekiel 21:7) with not much time left, but 2 seals.

The 6th trumpet army vs 13-21, Gog, crushes the previous 5th trumpet army. This is how Babylon falls. It describes the day of the Lord.

The king of the north defeats the king of the south ( Daniel 11:40) Also, like above, describing the same thing as above, and many more.

If we are in the end-time, and fearing war the big one (6th trumpet), wouldn't we have seen the 5th trumpet by now, or did 9-11-01 pass without notice?

I meant to say: "The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Ishmael at 13". I accidentally wrote Issac when I meant to write Ishmael.

Bro dan,

Absolutely,

Without God we are nothing and He is Everything to me. I pray for all my Brothers and Sisters in the world, everyday.

I pray for the Lost everyday that are in the world. I pray for the Peace of Jerusalem and that Jesus will come quickly everyday.

Jesus is coming very soon, time is running out for the lost. Each day gets more and more evil and it seems that we are losing the battle, but God will never lose the battle. Those of us that believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God will be rewarded. The lost will be losers of life with Him for Eternity. What a wonderful God we have for providing a way to be with Jesus wherever He goes, we will be with Him. Praise God, for He is worthy to open the Seals of God. There is no one else to do it. Jesus paid the price with His wiliness to die with our sins cast on Him and His blood was poured out to cover our sins. We should be placed on that cross, but He stood in our place for us. Why, because He loved us, He gave us the way to God. I will praise God forever. Amen!

So, here is my effort to do the calculation of the span of time Abram may have been in Egypt. I will start using the widest span of time allowed while Abram's ages could be given as 75 and 86.

If Abram left Haran on his 75th birthday he would have been 75.0 years old. If Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram on the day before his 87th birthday he would have been 86.997 years old. This allows a maximum of 11.997 years (just under 12 years) between events.

Subtracting Hagar's pregnancy removes 0.75 years of that time and I will assume she became pregnant the same day that she was given to Abram as a wife leaving 11.247 years.

If the day Abram left Egypt and the day Saria gave Hagar to Abram occurred on the same day of the year 10 years apart that would remove 10.0 years leaving 1.247 years.

The 1.257 years has to accommodate the amount of time Abram spent traveling from Haran to Canaan and the time he sojourned in Canaan before he decided the famine was too severe and entered Egpyt. I have no way of knowing how long that took, but I'll say a little over 3 months (0.257 years). That leaves 1.0 years or a full year for Abraham to be in Egpyt.

Of course these assumptions all maximize the time Abram would have spent in Egypt and I don't think Abram spent a full year lying about Saria being his sister and allowing her to become part of pharoah's harem before God made the plagues on Pharoahs house and Abram had to leave. If those events were actually completed in 3 months (0.25 years) then the total span of time between when Abram is said to be 75 and 86 can contract by 0.75 months to be a total span of 11.247 years. If that is the case, the day Abram left Haran does not have to be his 75th birthday and the day Hagar bore him Ishmael does not have to be the day before he turned 87.

The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Issac at 13 and Issac's birth to Abraham at 100 could refine my answer but Genesis 16 seems to allow 3 mo. min to 1 yr max for Abram's time in Egypt.

Hello S Spencer,

In your last reply you wrote things that are closer to my understanding. My previous comment was because these 2 sentences in you wrote:

"If one desire to keep the law he can't just keep the 4th commandment, he must keep the whole law "perfectly" ALL HIS LIFE!"

"Keeping the law imperfectly is "still" a death sentence."

Some in this forum have used such interpretations as an excuse to not even try to follow God, to not even try to do good works, to not even try to follow God's moral law. Since I now know that's not you are saying then great, we agree on that point. Anyone making a case that its bad to do good works, then that's what I feel an obligation to call out as being untrue.

People are already sinners and are hopeless without Jesus. Salvation can't be earned, but that doesn't mean people should intentionally disobey or not try to follow Christ. Doing good works is fruit of following Christ as a Christian and James 2 supports that.

Brother Dan.

Part 2.

Romans 11:10-32.

There is a lot here in this portion of scripture, for one you will see there is two groups here, Us/The Church and Israel.

Take notice of what we are being grafted into! Is it Israel? No, Israel is a branch broken off because of unbelief.

You see the concept in John and Mathews. I am the vine true/genuine vine in John 15:1-12. and Mathews 7:13-23. opposed to Israel in Jeremiah 2:21.

Notice Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Again, salvation wasn't to come by the law where the Gentiles were foreigners, the law was to show the world they needed a savior that's what God promised Abraham.

Genesis 22:18.

SO, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW?

Galatians 3:18-29.

This puts the verse you gave, " Galatians 3:29." in its proper perspective.

More References:

Romans 7:4-7.

Romans 7:8-13.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

You mentioned Romans 2:29. Let's look at it.

You should take it from Romans 2:11-29. to put it in its context.

Romans 2:11-16.

Notice Paul says, "FOR WHEN THE GENTILES, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Even before the law was given, we had light in the world that bared witness of right and wrong! (The law put a death sentence on us. Romans 7:8-10.)

Continuing.

Romans 2:17-24.

Context: vs 17. "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,"

This portion of scripture seems to label you as a hypocrite and blasphemer when you put your trust in being able to keep the law.

See verses 24-29 in Part 3.

Dear free.........amen and amen!!!

Hi Anthony,

These topics are discussed regularly here. While you are here on this discussions page, you can see a Tab entitled "Discussion by Topic", upper right area, hit the tab and then you will see a list of topics. You can see Sabbath, Commandments, etc.etc.

I understand your concern with getting salvation advice today it can be very misleading. I would suggest that you read and study the bible scripture yourself, pray for Guidance from God, and His Holy Spirit, and participate on this type of forum to ask questions, and learn and grow spiritually. Your time and effort will pay off for you!

God Bless.

Hi Bro Alex,

Thanks for your input. We agree on some, and not on others. I pray God's Spirit will help to guide us both, in growth, toward the correct understanding of the scriptures.

Yes, we are under God's New Covenant, please notice; God said in "His New Covenant" he will write His Laws into our Hearts and into our Minds. The same Laws/10 Commandments that were written in stone. These are God's MORAL Laws, not to be confused with the old testament ceremonial laws.

Hebrews 8:10

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

God's 10 Commandments will last forever, or until heaven and earth no longer exist! Don't take my word, study the scripture, here is God telling us this very plainly:

Matthew 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Jesus is telling us that His MORAL LAWS will never to go away until His Kingdom is fulfilled. Meaning, all prophesies are completed. Including the end times per His revealings in the book of Revelations, and until - finally His Kingdom is in place.

Happy Sabbath Day and God Bless You!

What does the Bible and God say about seeking justice like to have a job for police to do in investigative cases to cause the criminally insane and killers be brought to justice in order to stop them if they have to shoot them to stop them

Hey Aaron,

Sorry, it took a while to reply, I was just pointing out how Revelation is written, and I do not agree with the interpretations you listed.

If I may tell my understanding on what you listed, not to debate or to say one of us is right or wrong. The 7 years that many uses as part of the rapture theory are taken from Daniel 9:27 with the rapture of the Church, then the antichrist, the first 3.5 years of peace, then breaking it with the abomination, and the last 3.5 years of great tribulation.

You say Jesus had the first half of the week and the antichrist the last half of the week. I assume you are referring to the same week from Dan. 9:27. My understanding the prophecy of the 70 weeks given to Daniel has been fulfilled, all of it and cannot be placed at the end times. Daniel 9:24 was determined on the house of Israel and Judah and Jerusalem, and the six things that were determined were fulfilled by Jesus.

On Rev.9 the US army and Muslims? No one is killed, the harmed are those without the seal of God, that would be worldwide not just in one area. They may bomb Iran it has happened before, but Israel, India, and Pakistan have nuclear weapons now.

What countries will be involved at the end; scripture does not tell us. Today it might look like it could be this country, tomorrow it may look like that country. Leading up to World War 2 who do you think people thought it was. Many believe the Church will be taken out before, I do not. I have an understanding of prophecy that if it starts today, I will know and I am ready and will not be deceived, and we have this Revelation 3:10

I love studying prophecy, the Holy Spirit illuminate's scripture every now and then, but I also have found there are things not yet revealed and we can get engulfed looking for the pieces of the puzzle that God has not given us yet, He will in His time. We should be fully alert to our world, with our lamps lit, walking as today is the day.

God bless,

RLW

First of all your question applies to Genesis 16:1:16, not Genesis 15 where you posted your question. First I will cite the verses that provide the relevant time spans separating the events in question.

Genesis 12:4-5

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

5. And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

Genesis 12:10

And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

Genesis 13:1

And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.

Genesis 16:3

And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Genesis 16:16

And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Note that none if these events list the month or day of the year that any of these events happened and some of the events listed have no specific time reference at all. In these texts God has reserved these details as hidden things that He alone knows with certainty. He has only chosen to reveal enough information for us to apply logic to verify that these events in His words are possible, if not probable, based on what we commonly know about the span of time a person is a certain age (any day beginning on their birthday that falls within a 1 year span) and the length of time a normal pregnancy lasts (9 months, not 1 year as you have stated).

I don't have space to work out the details for you and there are later events and ages given for Abraham later that refine what you work out. However, calculating fractions is hard using rounded numbers

Alex

thank you for your reply. I just do not concur with you that being born again means that we become another Jesus or Holy Spirit (as you said "multiplied"). we become children of God, but we will always be human beings, never divine.