Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 97

Good evening! Part of the interpretation of revelation is believing that our lives our written in heaven while we live in earth. So we live with hope. "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affections on things above, not on things of the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

Colossians 3:1-3

"And has raised us up together, and made us sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:26

So then, in part, this day is spoken of while the work of Christ continues in earthen vessels.

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, am am set down with my Father in his throne." Revelation 3:21

Oseas:

All the Old testament saints and the New testament saints were RAISED with Christ.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,

Ephesians 2:6 and hath raised us up together .....

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIE ANYMORE: for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the children of the RESURRECTION.

John 8:51 .... if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Luke 9:27 ... there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death.

God Bless You

Ok Odessa. Thank you for your thoughts.

Carleton

Who would be the 12 elders from the Old Testament mentioned in your post???, which already are clothed in white raiment; and have on their heads crowns of gold.

By the way, from the New Testament, you should know that all the saints, but all, including the Apostles, they all still are waiting their resurrection of this last Day( John 11:24), i.e. the SEVENTH and last Day or the current SEVENTH and last millennium.

As far as I know at this time, of all the New Testament saints there is none in heaven who was clothed in white raiment; and have on their heads crowns of gold. You should restudy your interpretation.

Thanks very much Admin.

Dear Chris,

The bottom of the Comment Guidelines page shows what parameters are used for the Bible verse links:

Link

Hopefully this is helpful. May God bless you!

KJBO

I understand now, thanks to Chris, why your scripture reference was saying there was no text for that scripture. It is just because of the way you typed out the reference. Here is what Chris told me:

Chris - in Reply

Hi Momsage. About your concern on "no matching KJB text": if a contributor writes out a Scripture reference that this KJBO Site engine doesn't recognize, then you will get that warning. Quite some time ago, KJBO put out information on what were the acceptable ways of writing Scripture (sorry, I can't find that information now). But in the case of " 2nd Cor 6:[14]", this wouldn't be acceptable because of the brackets used. I always spell the verse/passage out in full (even though it takes up more character spaces), e.g. 2 Corinthians 6:14

, as I know the reader can just hover the pointer over the reference to see it rather than go to the Bible verse. Hope that helps sort this out for you.

Blessings to you all

Yes that is a big help in understanding how things work. Thank you for taking the time to let me know. God Bless

HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Today's Dennis Prager show discussed the proposition of reading a statement from George Washington or something to that effect. The Constitution and Declaration of Independence certainly are good things to be thankful for as to the rights which we are still supposed to have as US citizens. There was also a question for those of different beliefs. Atheists can certainly be grateful for those in the past who enable us to still retain the bit of freedom we still possess. There are some who are obviously hostile to anything this country offers who live here; and I would say many others of our youth today just aren't even concerned or aware of these documents of the founding fathers; let alone anything which scripture actually has to say about thankfulness or anything else for that matter.

I pray that others had the same sort of expressions offered for each other toward the Lord as I did yesterday at church for our annual Thankssgiving eve prayer and scripture reading service. When we can dwell together in unity; it says something about the local church body as well as our standing being part of the elect church of God.

Up until now; this holiday hasn't been twisted as much as other ones have been in regard to obnoxious displays and materialism.

Letting certain elements into the Macy's parade which have been pushed by certain groups has perhaps changed this as of this year; however. We may glibly refer to this day as turkey day; but the gravy train as it were may be coming to an end as to our nation's food supply; however. Other nations (at least Canada) have a different day to celebrate a similar event.

As the holidays approach; I usually tend to wait until after them to do my most giving; since it seems there should be enough Thanksgiving meals every year on that day. Serving; however and the privilege of us as children of God to do this was discussed last night. I pray this season we can reach the lonely and aged in His love.

Hello Bennymkje, Again, Thank you. I think in reading Revelation there are things that are before the vision is completed and sometimes after the vision is completed. As described by "hereafter" and "shortly will come to pass" or "be done". The 24 elders may be representative of both the Old Testament saints (12) and the New Testament saints (12), thus the sea of glass before the Throne is clear, unhindered, eternal. Crossing the valley soon to a meal provided. Another good hour in Peace.

Dear CSmith 925,

Jesus is called The Great Physician for a reason. He will heal your heart, soul, and mind. Cling to him with both hands. Don't let go. Sometimes, the healing starts after a searching out of private sins, and then confession. Many times, the troubles in our minds are the result of wrong choices we have made. Everything is going to work well for you with Christ as your physician. Amen amen.

Carleton,

we are looking at a vision in Re.4 There we have the command,' Come up hither,' (4:1) We have the heaven the highest heaven and the sea of glass and altar of souls on which the throne is set. The same sea of glass we seen from the POV of Ezekiel who was among the exiles. Now St John is at the eye of level of throne in heaven.

Ezekiel from below sees the same sea of glass, "And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above."(Ez.1:22)

The souls slain for the martyrs are on the earth. They are not ressurected yet. As prayers of saints from the earth reach so the cries of the dead from lower parts reach heaven. Resurrection of the dead are in their order and it is not as you seem to imply.

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

The Lamb who prevailed upon to open the seals is St John's vision which we have in the Book of Daniel through the eye of OT saints. These are one and the same. Horsemen are color-coded to indicate the judgment so death on a pale horse shall be judged in due time. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."(1 Co.15:26)

Inaugural vision where St John sees the risen Christ and the Ancient of Days as one. They are in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks. This is a signal of the last Act in the Salvation 'Drama' where wars (sword),pestilence and plague shall be removed. "and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."(Re.21:4) The Book 'written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." is both blessings and judgment.

Good morning Bennymkje, Thank you for what hou have stated. Finally my thoughts on the 5th seal are referring to many who went first in believing in the Life giving Blood of Jesus Christ into Heaven. These Saints though many of them were cruelly persecuted unto death persevered without vengeance to man as they knew they were unworthy for this cause.The slain are looking for the time while under the altar of rest now in white robes, citizens of the new and better kingdom, are wondering when the Lord's vengeance of this Evil in earth will be finished. They know how Satan stood against them in latter times just as Satan stood against God's people that looked past their condition in weakness as seen in Zechariah towards Jesus. This battle is only won in the flesh of the Jesus as only He was able to stand up against Satan and his angels. The view of the 5th seal looks to be a heavenly view as time is coming to a close like the end of a day.

Carleton,

Ze.3 the vision is about a remnant of the nation of Israel. Joshua the name a variant of Jesus. The former is the Hebrew and the other Hellenized and both mean the same:God our Salvation. Re.7 relates to the sealing of 12x12x100. (here we have 12 as a tag for the tribes literal number x gospel of God and gospel of God as one. 100 is used to indicate latter days.) In place of the tribes we have 144,000 from the left behind church stepping in as Seth stepped in place of Abel.

Satan resisting the angel of the Lord is similar to him resisting the body of Moses, in the epistle of Jude "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."(v.9) The comparison is apt. Joshua the high priest represents the remnant of the nation that be allowed in, coming as they from the great tribulation, their garments are unlike the martyrs resting under the altar of souls. "that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held."(vv.9-11) Re.6.

Ze.3:2-3 "is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?/Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel." plucked out of the fire refers to the great tribulation.

Thank you Rainwalker. You are correct, that the same word, 'adokimos' is used in relation to 'reprobate or castaway'. And this word gives the definitions as 'failing to pass the test, unapproved, counterfeit'. So we see a number of meanings that can be given, whether a test is given & one fails it, or to the other, of one being a counterfeit.

Thus if one feels that 1 Corinthians 9:27 might be Paul indicating that if he fails to keep his body (his flesh) under subjection, that when he preaches to others, then God would cast him away; could he then just be a failure, or incur God's disapproval, or even actually be a counterfeit Christian to be relegated to a destiny with other unbelievers?

Then do verses such as Romans 1:28, 2 Timothy 3:8, or Titus 1:16 apply also to Paul if he neglected to keep his body under subjection? And if Paul is deemed to be a castaway (i.e. having lost his salvation), does this then open the door to the Lord's failure to call & appoint His primary apostle to the Gentiles? But as we know, Paul didn't let the flesh or the Devil overcome him - he remained clear in conscience & faithful to his Lord; and this power, could it have come from within, i.e. the Holy Spirit in him, Who helps those endued with the Spirit, to not only do as Paul did, but also to be confident that He will indeed keep them from falling & be presented faultless before the Throne?

It's for such questions & verses in the NT, that confirm to my heart that God makes no mistakes in calling, redeeming, justifying & sealing His children. Readers of those passages will have to satisfy their own hearts & minds as to how to understand the different word usages for 'castaway or reprobate'.

I think we can agree to disagree about what castaway may mean, sort of like the preacher I heard explain the branches in John 15 as being works and not the believers themselves. That's how you get around the branches being burned in the fire that don't produce fruit. Again, I think it's sad that there are those who will hold to this 'doctrine' until their last breath. If I saw any inferral to it in the OT, then I might reconsider and if Jesus didn't tell those believers in the church at Sardis that, if they didn't change their ways, they risked having their names blotted out of the Book of Life. I suppose you and others surmise Christ was speaking metaphorically or something. Again, your choice. I'm just simple enough to take Him at His word and that's it. No figuring, no Greek word origin, no hemming and hawing, just take it for what it says. In the end, the eternal security issue is one that can tend to produce lame duck, no, luke warm Christians, who like the Pharisees and Saducees in Jesus' day, thought themselves impervious to correction, even by the Son of God Himself. Stay in the Word, my friend and we'll converse again down the road sometime. Thanks for your time...

SisterJema:

The Book of Ezekiel takes the spirit of truth to teach you, and lots of meditation.

Ezekiel 1:1 ..... and I saw VISIONS of GOD .... Keep these word at the front of you mind ....

Ephesians 4:4 ... ONE Spirit .... ONE Body ....

Ephesians 4:5 ... ONE God .... Father of ALL (creation, the four creatures).... above ALL .... through ALL ... IN YOU ALL ....

You will have to add many scriptures from the entirety of the word to see the prophecy; which is always the kingdom of God

All creation being made ONE FLESH with Christ and his Father.

A wheel within a wheel (Christ in you)

Ezekiel 1:20 Wheresoever the SPIRIT WENT, THEY WENT ...

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in you and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements an DO THEM.

John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me, I have given them, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.

God Bless YOU

Hey Chris, that term castaway is the same word translated "reprobate" in other passages. Much worse than being removed from ministry or end of physical life. Why it was translated castaway, who knows.. either way, it is an "unsaved" position.

Thank you Richard. Surely the filthy garment for the new in Life will be washed by the Blood clean? So the Souls that had been slain have changed their garments already in the Gospel setting the time of the fifth seal in this part of the Revelation. The most important part is that Satan stands between the simple, repentant believer wanting salvation and God rebukes (stands) him by the Son even while we were in iniquity at the time.

The crux of the matter is that REAL miracles as well as Godly living in Christ Jesus WILL result in persecution and suffering. Such are scriptural concepts ( 2 Timothy 3:12 and other passages). The religious spirit of the Pharisees I am sure still is in operation and thus; hatred will result in true miracles as well as true salvation messages involving repentance and calling sin for what it is.

This would include preaching against ALL sin; including pride and hypocricy of individuals and society at large.

The threat against all of Satan's carefully networked aspects of society are many. Those who proclaim Christ are an economic threat; so a genuine conversion that starts to affect this system will bring imprisonment; no doubt. We see this now with the Pro Life movement; and indeed anything that gains any momentum attempting to restore traditional values. This is by no means unique to one particular political party or members of the establishment. There is economic gain to wars; like it or not by powers that be; just as there is influence by caving into popular concepts today where businesses are willing to forego economic sanity to position themselves with the world as others pull the strings.

We present Christ today; sadly often as a God of our imagination. We may have a vacuum that only God can fill but some never will seek it; and we are ALL enemies of God before salvation. Bringing the church down to the world to fill pews is backwards; we should challenge those who would follow Christ with the requirements of being a disciple and warnings of dangers of falling away for those who would glibly make a confession without counting the cost. Looking at Christ makes it clear; with the exception of the 12 Disciples He never actively sought others; but would often weed out those not willing to forsake all for Him. He had no place to lay His head; let alone a fancy building to preach in. The Son of Man came not to be served ( Mark 10:45)

I would respectively disagree here; as filthy garments vs unspotted and unwrinkled ones (see Eph. 5:27). We are responsible as believers who; upon salvation would receive white; clean garments to maintain them. This is what differentiates us from the O.T. as you brought out; now we have Christ's righteousness available to us through the Spirit; but we can allow ourselves to become tarnished from the world; flesh and the Devil. Dying to self now involves daily discipline and perseverance through trials; and for some martyrdom.

Revelation 5 I believe is symbolic of believers that need to purify themselves through martyrdom. Whether these are believers who are lukewarm and left behind certainly seems plausible to me. If it is new believers; it shows that the only real way to bear fruit at that time is through death; unlike now when we have the opportunity to do so through functions we practice largely in the corporate Body but not exclusively. There simply will not be room for compromise; and at that time as the book of Daniel indicates the saints will be overcome; unlike now when the gates of hell will NOT prevail against the church. This will be at the time when ALL nations will hate us; and kill us thinking they are doing God a favor ( John 16:2). This as I see it is likely with the Apostate church who will be the only organized religion after the Rapture; and likely this is a separate event from the martyrs who refuse the Mark of the Beast later on; after Satan goes after all the false AND true religion to get all the glory for himself; thus overthrowing the "Mystery Babylon" system.

I will agree that fear and spiritual oppression are what really cause defeat; many times fear of death and persecution. Yet it is true freedom and release and nothing to fear to die in Christ once we pass this earthly existance. Some; I feel are hidden and God will use the Tribulation to violently sift the wheat so to speak to bear fruit (Tribulum concept)

Good evening, guess some of the seals are on the mind this evening.

In Zechariah 3:1-4 Joshua was with an angel of the LORD and Satan was there to resist him. Though Jerusalem was precious in the Lord's eye, Satan looked down on Israel not able to keep the Commandments of God and thus remaining in filthy garments, yet, God rebukes Satan and changes Joshua's raiment by taking away his iniquity.

The white robes of the fifth seal were also a change of raiment for the souls that were slain for the word of God and were given rest under the alter until their fellow servants and their brethren lives were also taken.

What these Saints had battled was Satan and his angels standing up against them as they washed their filthy garments in the blood of the Lamb at Calvary. These Saints are asking how long will the Lord wait to avenge their blood on the earth. It would be likely the vengeance they are asking for is against evil spirits standing against man's salvation.

Hello, EmptyLostSoul,

I am very sorry that you are feeling as you are. I will be praying for you. God can reach you through this depression and feeling of hopeless existence. I pray that You will seek God with all that you are able to do at this time. You can seek Him. He will draw near to you if you ask Him for help and rescue. And He is able to overcome what is happening in your mind and heart. I pray that God will bring to You salvation, hope, and a fullness of knowing Him as Your God.

Seek medical help for the depression you are experiencing. Don't try to go it alone or to tough it out. There are some newer treatments available now that may help. Go see a doctor and follow up with what the doctor recommends.

So true! When Jesus returns he will reestablish his kingdom here on earth, and it will be a holy kingdom that has no end.

And wishes to you too Mark & your family at this time of Thanksgiving. You've shared a few Scriptures, which I will address.

Philippians 2:12,13. The apostle was concerned for the Church's behavior: vv 2-4 (disagreements, unloving, discord, striving & not esteeming). And of course, he gives the supreme example of the Mind of Christ in his Coming in the form of a Servant. So Paul goes on to write (v12), 'therefore as you have obeyed me in the past, not just when I'm around but now when I'm not with you, work out (put into practise/into operation) what your salvation has brought you, and do so in trembling & fear (in all diligence & seriousness)': my paraphrasing. "work out your own salvation" is the big question here. If it were to 'find your own way to God', or 'now that you are saved, make all effort to remain saved', then I don't believe that was Paul's teaching. As one Bible teacher often preached, "you have been given the gift of Salvation, now work it out in your life", i.e. 'be constantly in step with the Spirit, being humble before God, scrutinizing your life, keeping short accounts with Him; you can't add anymore to your salvation, or else it's no more of Grace but of works, so be diligent to not be slack but mindful of God's great Grace & your position in Christ'.

"His Faith". I did mean, God's Faith given to man to believe & to be exercised with. Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 12:3, are good examples - the Gift of God given to us is 'Grace AND Faith', for man's faith is incapable of apprehending the fullness of Christ's Sacrifice at the Cross for him & being exercised to please God.

1 Corinthians 9:27. A 'castaway' what Paul was referring to, was that he would be disqualified from this high calling if he was hypocritical by preaching salvation through Jesus & the power of that Risen Life, & yet be undisciplined in dealing with the appeals of his flesh. In this case, he would have failed - and maybe removed from ministry, even from earthly life itself. GBU

Thank you so much for that :) .

Can anyone help me with this question please ? In Ezekiel Ch 1 we have a description of the cherubims with their four faces ( V 10 ) , why , when we get to Ch 10 V 14 , has one of the faces changed ? Any suggestions would be helpful , thanks .

Happy pre-Thanksgiving, Chris. Thanks for your response. First, if the Word declares that we should work out our faith with fear and trembling (Philip. 2:12-13), that we should not grieve the Holy Spirit who seals us unto the day of redemption and, finally, Jesus told the parables of the talents and the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 reflecting what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. Same master, same bridegroom for all the servants or virgins (in other words, no unbelievers). If eternal security is valid, then why would Paul under Spirit prompting say we have to work out our salvation? It should be a given, no work, no fear, no trembling. Right? Should read then, "Enjoy your salvation with confidence and presumption.". You're right in saying God has done it all in making a way for us to get back into relationship with Him thru His Son, Jesus. God has dealt to every man a measure of faith ( Rom. 12:3), so when you say HIS faith, I think you mean his/man's misplaced faith in himself or something other than God. Again, I stand by what the Word declares, that without faith it is impossible to please God or to do His will.

Paul states it best in 1 Cor. 9:27, when he chooses to keep his body under subjection, lest that by any means, after he has preached to others, he should become a castaway. How's that? A castaway? No way that could happen...I mean no way. He must have not been listening close enough to what the Spirit was really wanting him to say or write.

If, after all this, you and others (some very prominent in today's Christianity) choose to believe this erroneous teaching, then continue on my friend and we'll let bygones be bygones. Thanks for your time...Mark

A recurring theme in Jesus' conversations with His critics is that they are being willfully obstinate. Jesus' life and teachings align perfectly with the Scriptures these men know all too well-but they actively refuse to accept Him ( John 5:39-40). An intent to disbelieve, not a lack of knowledge, is their main problem ( John 7:17). Others have seen Jesus' miracles, and properly interpreted them as signs that He is divinely empowered ( John 3:1-2; 10:21). The men who threaten Him now, however, have proven they're opposed to God ( John 10:1-6) by crediting Jesus' miracles to Satan ( Mark 3:22).

Jesus will continue to answer in the next verse by reiterating the first of His three shepherding-related analogies from this chapter. This puts His answer in plain terms: I already told you who I was, but you're not going to listen.

Hello Amasuca, Yes! the Gospel is the Good News. Spread it far and wide. :)